MovieChat Forums > The Dark Tower (2017) Discussion > Query for Spider, Tyler, and their ilk.....

Query for Spider, Tyler, and their ilk...

posted 8 years ago by StormBringer328
13 replies | jump to latest

When is the last time you honestly read any of the Dark Tower books? I ask this in all seriousness. I am currently rereading them and am now 50 pages into book III. The last time I read them all, in full, was probably in 2010. Before I started this reread I thought I was pretty familiar with the books, but there were a lot of things I had either remembered differently or forgotten entirely. Now, I admit I don't have the greatest memory; I'm only 32, but I've been on a lot of rather terrible medications over the last 10 years that have taken a toll mentally and physically. Perhaps a cliche, but my memory isn't what it used to be. Perhaps either of you may know personally, but when you have an aggressive and damaging disease, sometimes you have to just deal with damaging side effects to keep the worst Beast at bay. But I admit, I had forgotten the face of my father. Anyway...

Rereading the books brings many emotions to mind. Like meeting old friends again as we travel along the path of the beam toward Roland's Tower. It's refreshing in a way that only book nerds like us understand; these characters become our friends and family. Their journey becomes our own. When news of a film adaptation is released a storm of emotions envelops our mind: fear, happiness, nervousness, rage, etc. We look at the past successes and failures of the studio, the director, the writer. We look at what the current fads in film are. And more. All these factors we consider when figuring out how we feel and think about a film adaptation of our favorite book series.

The result of our analysis for adapting a beloved book series like the Dark Tower is scary. Some fads that worry us are teen franchises, super heroes, and poorly written love stories. Does our beloved franchise even fit these categories without stretching it to fit? Hell no. What kind of track record does the studio have for executing adaptations while respecting the source material, it's main plot and characters, and really believing in the project? Well, this is Sony we're talking about unfortunately. So far they don't seem to show that they believe in this project. Opinions differ widely on whether or not Sony is respecting the source material. And many of the arguments of both sides are valid. Is changing the race of the main character because the best actor to convey Roland was black, not white, a good decision? Hell no, some say: this is just an SJW/PC decision and a sign that the movie is going to suck. Others have faith in Idris Elba being a good choice for Roland, that his acting chops fit the Roland mold, despite many of Roland's physical characteristics being very different (skin color, build, eyes, etc). I am one of those who see the validity in both arguments.

I still don't know how I feel about Elba. I've not seen Roland in any of his other roles, tho I have liked him in several movies. I'm just not sure yet. At first I was enraged, but when I started rereading the series I started to realize how I feel it doen't really matter Roland's physical descriptions as long as the actor *gets* Roland. We won't know till we see the movie, tho. Skin color doesn't seem to be a source of contention in Roland's world.

Another big issue is the racist tension between Odetta/Detta, Eddie, and Roland. I remembered it being a huge issue in the series, but really it only lasted for 150 or so pages of one book. And the racist rants and accusations were complete fabrications in Detta Walkers mind. But how Detta Walker *really* see's Roland is as a Really Bad Man. When he entered her mind, Roland saw the chaos that was her mind. And she saw how dangerous and threatening to her existence he was. The way I took it was that was the reason she really feared Roland. All the racist words and thoughts were complete fabrications and didn't last for that many pages overall.

So Roland being played by a man of color now really doesn't matter. Sure, whoever plays the woman who will become Susannah may not use the words Honky Mofah, Whitebread, etc, her hate for Roalnd really stems from what she sees in him when he enters her mind.

I know this is long winded and just looks and sounds like verbal diarrhea, but I'm trying to discuss the book/film with you, civilly. I know how upset you and those with a similar opinion are. I know where you stand, but I'm trying to understand why you really feel this way. I'm not saying you are wrong any more than I am right (opinions are like @$$holes, so they say, and everyone's got one, including me, and they all stink!) But I feel my opinions of the film adaptation are changing, slightly, as I reread the books from beginning to end.

I'm not claiming to be somehow special or have insight you don't. I'm honestly trying to understand. So what's up, guys? Are you willing to palaver? Let's all be humble and calm as we discuss. Clean slate?

[–] joannatn 8 years ago

But I admit, I had forgotten the face of my father.

Speak not so, gunslinger. Your father remembers your face well.

And even though this post wasn't directed at me, I had to get that in, Stormy.

[–] StormBringer328 8 years ago

Joanna, your posts and responses are always welcomed (by me, at least), as you are akin to a wise sage, ha. Always a voice of impartial reason, to either side of the fence. You reminded me that I had forgotten the face of my fathers and inspired me to take the journey once again. I may not be reading (or drawin', for that matter) as fast as you, but I'm plowing thru and remembering, in my addled brain, much that I had forgotten.

But it was also you, in our discussions, who opened my eyes when negativity and difficulty *seeing* the entire story thru new eyes clouded *my* vision. To look past my own perceived hang-ups and be open to a different telling of things.

Maybe that seems like an exaggerated sense of things due to reading the story at the moment? Either way, you're awesome, Jo!

[–] joannatn 8 years ago

Now I feel bad for hijacking a post meant for others, but... wow. I mean, thank you. I think you're being way too hard on yourself and giving me far too much credit. I'm pretty sure the conclusions you've come to you would have been able to reach without my mediation, but if I did help you there in any capacity, that's very touching.

Now, I hardly see myself "akin to awise sage," ha ha! Honestly, I've loved this story for so long. I'm finally getting to remember how a much younger me managed to fall in love with Roland; that magic that happens when the whole gang is together is there for me right now. These books have been in my life a long time. They've meant a lot to me. So with this movie coming out, of course I'm going to be apprehensive. Of course I'm going to be critical. But I want it to be amazing. And I'm not willing to write it off until I have concrete proof that it needs to be. I don't think that makes me a shill; I like having the ability to bend without breaking. I know not everyone can, and that's fine. This movie won't be for them. But if some of us can still enjoy it, we have that right, too. And it's good that you were able to step back and look at it differently. That speaks a lot to your charcter, Stormy.

Okay, I'd say we verbally hugged this one out, ha ha! Spidey, Ty... The floor is yours!

[–] tylerrepotter 8 years ago

Are you kidding me? You and your buddies think this film is Dark Tower? Keep reading then. If you were on the O.J. jury you would think he's innocent, despite the bloody glove and car chase. We have evidence from this movie.... Therefore to pretend everything is good and i am wrong for noticing that they aren't making an adaptation, but a complete rewrite for... Who? People like you guys who think anything will do, no matter how egregious... Am i wrong? What could they do that would be too much? Rosanne Barre as Susannah? I'm being serious.

[–] perceiveclothing 8 years ago

There you have it folks, Hahaha.

[–] tinasparklesau 8 years ago

they aren't making an adaptation, but a complete rewrite for... Who?

Ignoring the colourful analogies, tyler has a point. Who IS this being made for? It is being called a sequel. As a fan, i would like a 'sequel' to be written by King. I think the horn of eld is being used to justify the massive changes from the source material. I consider this a cinematic re-imagining/reboot of the series, this is a safer (easier) way to look at it imo.

[–] SpringheelJack_fin 8 years ago

That's right. The horn of eld/sequel thing is an excuse and nothing more.

[–] joannatn 8 years ago

You know what guys. Sure. Maybe the horn of eld is a cop out. It's quite possible. And even though Stephen King keeps posting about it, dropping little tidbits such as his mention that this it the final turn of the wheel, I mean, that's no reason to assume he's involved in this project at all. Right? Or, oh! Oh, oh! He's getting paid to say things like that, just the same as me and Sawyer and Wolf and Stormy and all the other shills that frequent these boards. Okay, I get it now. There's absolutely no sense in waiting for a finished preview, much less a finished movie.

Seriously guys? Watch the movie or don't. What else do you want at this point? You obviously have your minds made up.

And Ty? Really? He approached you with questions that were asked sincerely, without accusation, reproach or anger. Are you truly incapable of just answering questions without throwing pointless insults? Are you really going to liken fans of a book series and/or movie to Nazis and supporters of murder? Do you not even see how that is insane, and to some people, entirely insulting? Dude, I've tried. We have managed to have a few posts back and forth that actually didn't have insults in them. I just don't understand why you can't just bloody discuss things with others. I know you hate this project. Hell, I even know why you don't like it, even if I don't agree. It's the unprovoked hostility that frustrates me to no end.

[–] tinasparklesau 8 years ago

aw Jo, don't be too harsh on us. You're too friendly, it's not your style :) As a fencesitter, in some ways it's more frustrating than being either a defender or detractor. When i'm having a negative DT day, i still try and put some positive slant out there anyway. I am more optimistic thinking of TDT as a reboot rather than a sequel, the idea just meshes better for me. Obviously i'm a huge DT fan, so the idea that someone else is writing Roland's FINAL time around is just.can't.even.eatabagof.no! haha, even with King's blessing... Sure it's great that he approves of what they've done but please don't let anyone else finish Roland's tale! So that's why i'm going to put my blinkers on and watch it as more of a reboot.

Sometimes i fail to throw out what i find positive about TDT, so i'd like to do this now. Despite the Akiva 'the hack' Goldsman argument, i think it's great that Ron Howard and Brian Grazer are on board. They've been there since Abrams dropped it (before he dropped it even, so Akiva isn't that stupid in knowing who to pitch it to), and both of these guys have earned and deserve the respect they have in the film industry imo. I don't see anyone bitching and moaning about those 2, and the September interview showed their heavy involvement in TDT. I would have liked to see Ron Howard remain as director, but the Nicolaj Arcel spin is interesting. I had no idea who he was until i went sleuthing... He does seem like a strong director, and bringing on board Anders Thomas Jensen to help rework the script was a good move too. Sawyer seems the most knowledgable on these guys so it would be great if he could share more. I also think it's a good sign that Arcel brought his cinematographer with him. If Arcel did learn english with the help of TDT books, he probably has a better grasp of the books then a lot of us do! LOL, towards the end of the series half of them are another language - ka, khef, can-toi, commala, etc is the least of it. It's like learning a new language if you dare put a book down for longer than a week.

I wouldn't say the horn of eld is a cop out, but something *had* to be brought in to validate it being not only a 'sequel', but to close the loop entirely? It's easy to do this with the horn of eld in play but i wish they had thought up something else that didn't mean someone other than King was closing the loop on us. If we couldn't get an adaptation, it would have been easier to swallow if it was perhaps a previous loop imo.

Stay positive Jo! It's posters like you and sugr that make this board a more pleasant place to frequent, especially for us whingers, the optimism and open mindedness does rub off on us. I have become a lot more positive about the changes in source material after open minded exchanges with sugr. And it looks like you've helped bring storm 180 with your candor too.

[–] SpringheelJack_fin 8 years ago

Why do your concerns about the changes made for the movie only go as far as being racially related?

You talk about current fads in movie making, one of those fads is reasonably faithful adaptations to beloved books. We aren't getting that. There's no "The Gunslinger" for us.

Are you going to assume this post is actually me crying about Idris being cast like you did before? Because I was embarrassed for you.

[–] StormBringer328 8 years ago

My concerns go far deeper than being 'racially related', Moon. BUT that is the one most often brought up by Tyler and Spidey. I apologize if you are just now joining the conversation, but if you went back and looked over the last few weeks you'd see many other concerns brought up.

This post was me trying to engage Spidey or Tyler in discussing their biggest gripe, but doing so civilly. If I were to actually get them to discuss ANYTHING, it would move past the first and onto the second. And then the third. So on.

I get the reading on you, Moon. I gotcha. I read you loud and clear. What else would YOU like to talk about? I'm just as frustrated with unnecessary changes as you are. I'm not praising this film before it comes out. If you think I am, you need to gather some intel by rereading some older posts. I complained about Mr. Goldsman being a part of this, as he has some true stinkers and I don't care for the dude's adaptations. I complained about the casting, too! Surprised? Other aspects, too. But I've had good conversation with others that changed my viewpoint on a few things. I'm not trying to convince you, I'm only trying to DISCUSS aspects of the books and movie. I am the consummate pessimist/realist, but I'm trying to wait and see the movie before hating on it. If it sucks, I'll be right there with you. But only after the film has proved it sucks. I do not own rose colored glasses, bub.

[–] tylerrepotter 8 years ago

Sure. Wecan. Discuss whatever. What are you talking about race for? Rosanne Barre, John Goodman are white, and not appropriate casting. Just like Idris in this particular role. Race has little to do with it, but most cuck sjws jump to buzz themes because it's easier... I am hoping at this point that the t.v. show is good. Length wise it has time to grow and develop, whereas this film doesn't. We will just get a 90 minute preview with only 2 characters

[–] StormBringer328 8 years ago

Embarrassed for me? Is that supposed to make me feel bad or something? Bring me down, put me beneath your soap box? Have at it, bud. Tell me why you're embarrassed for me. Ha.