casting choice of Elba are racist aholes that should go fuque themselves. Let that sink in before you make your decision to see this movie.
http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Dark-Tower-Producer-Has-Blunt-Message-Who-Don-t-Like-Idris-Elba-105537.html
This movie is going to be eaten alive by the fans, and not in a good way.
Come quietly, or there will be...trouble.
I've seen this article before. The way it came across to me, he was talking specifically to those who have made racist comments as a result of Elba's casting, not to all those opposed to the casting in general.
I have a question. I am just interested.
Has there been any blatant racist backlash towards Idris being cast? As in were any specif racist terms used against him?
Or is the idea that some people are against Elba being cast in what is originally supposed to be a white role an inherently racist response?
I am just wondering what people consider to be racism.
I have a question. I am just interested.Yes, there has been racist backlash. I've seen it on Twitter, where some specifically complained about the filmmakers "casting a n***** as Roland Deschain." I've even seen racist backlash here on this board. For example, one poster referred to Idris as "blackbird Roland" (while this could be considered a nod to the insults made toward Susannah, it's nonetheless insulting due to the racial implications, just as it was in the books). Another poster started making their point by using the usual comparisons (something about changing the cast of Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids and Shaft to white people, if I remember correctly), and quickly devolved into a series of offensive rants about #oscarssowhite, "black handouts," and African children being "useless," among other things. And just recently, someone else here parodied one of the series' well-known phrases, "You have forgotten the face of your father" as "Yall have forgotten the face of yo baby-daddy." And these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
Has there been any blatant racist backlash towards Idris being cast? As in were any specif racist terms used against him?
Or is the idea that some people are against Elba being cast in what is originally supposed to be a white role an inherently racist response?Sure, that might be how some people choose to look at it. No one's denying that. But going by what I've seen from most of the people here who are accepting of a black Roland, that isn't the consensus. Personally, I've found that most people tend to reveal their true feelings, racist or otherwise, when asked to elaborate on their reasons for being for or against this casting. As I've said many times before, I totally understand that most people who are against Idris as Roland feel that way because of how it could affect Susannah's character/story arc, or just because they want to see him on screen as he's described in the books. In fact, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of those who've accepted Idris as Roland would've been perfectly fine with the filmmakers decision had they chosen a white actor for the role instead. But I think that those of us who are more accepting of the choice feel that way because of the nature of the story itself (i.e., multiple worlds, multiple versions of people, places, and things, etc.). share
Has there been any blatant racist backlash towards Idris being cast? As in were any specif racist terms used against him?
And you regularly post in the same threads as someone who does nothing but call people cracker, who you've never once criticised for. But as with your stance on race changing and people wishing bad things on others it changes depending on your own blatant racism and double standards.
shareThere's that specifically selective amnesia at play again.
Don't worry: i'll dig up the relevant hyperlink of the last time you thought you pulled out a smoking gun only to find it was a dead fish.
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
No it's pointing out your hypocrisy, again. You're complaining about racism while being fine with someone blatantly racist simply because they are on the same side of the argument as you.
Which seems to be a pattern with you.
You really will make an excuse at all for this film won't you. A producer calls anyone wanting to see accurate casting racist, that's fine. The film's plot has nothing to do with the books, that's fine. A trailer is leaked that doesn't even look like the Dark Tower in any way and looks so cheap, that's fine. It's pushed back in a clearly desperate move to try and salvage something remotely watchable, that's fine.
Like you've decided you are going to support this and will defend anything to do with it no matter what.
You really will make an excuse at all for this film won't you. A producer calls anyone wanting to see accurate casting racist, that's fine. The film's plot has nothing to do with the books, that's fine. A trailer is leaked that doesn't even look like the Dark Tower in any way and looks so cheap, that's fine. It's pushed back in a clearly desperate move to try and salvage something remotely watchable, that's fine.I just saw this. I'm guessing you were replying to me, Spider? I can't really tell since you didn't quote who you're talking to and I haven't gotten notifications from IMDb when you reply to me for several months. Anyway, assuming you were replying to me...
Like you've decided you are going to support this and will defend anything to do with it no matter what.
Yeah Goldsman said that, he was already playing the racism card before production even begin. So we know what the defense will be when this tanks.
shareRacist or not, "You have forgotten the face of your baby-daddy" is funny.
Lighten up people.
No...no it's not. Let me guess: you're never on the receiving end of similar insults/implied insults?
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
Racist or not, "You have forgotten the face of your baby-daddy" is funny.Sorry, but it wasn't funny then, and it's not funny now. As a matter of fact, not only is it not funny, it doesn't even make sense. It essentially says, "You have forgotten the face of your child's father." So yeah. share
Lighten up people.
[deleted]
That's pretty aggressive there gogo, please don't think everyone thinks like this. I even think this quote has been misinterpreted in the first place. I'm pretty sure Goldsman was saying that he respects the people who are unsure due to the racial politics (completely understandable) however the people that are being racist are *beep* (notice the full stop/period for US seperating the two sentences) - If I come across as condescending in this piece, please know I never meant it to come across that way.
I for one don't consider people who don't like Idris Elba as racist, and I'm sure the majority on this board don't either, that's down to taste. I think most people use the word racist when actual racists come on the board and start using distasteful language - there has unfortunately been some. It can become foggy in the heat of the moment and I believe some people from both sides are guilty of a thing or two, but if you don't like Elba as an actor, that's fine man go for your opinion, no one's stopping you.
I do, however, take heed of your use of the words Liberal and SJW's. By branding some people who have a different opinions than yours with words meant to be used in a negative or derogatory fashion, you have been just as guilty as these 'SJWs' of assuming all people who don't like Elba are racist by putting everybody in to one clump. I really like Elba as an actor and I'd like to see his interpretation of a character that I've known for years and would like to see on screen, but that's my opinion, people can be free to disagree if they like and I know some people agree. To label me as a Social Justice Warrior is just untrue. IMO, whatever way you like to live your life is fine as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else. That doesn't mean that I think that all straight, western, white males are the enemy and should be replaced. Hell, I am a straight, western, white male. And I'm not sure if the word Liberal is a dirty word in your country (i'm assuming USA?) but here in England, it's something to wear with pride and honour, as are many words here. To us, it means that we want to help others as well as ourselves. Its like me calling someone in the UK a conservative - they won't take offence, they'll just respond to it. Conservative people wear that badge with pride too. I've taken part in many conversations between liberals and conservatives, and nothing bad happened, they just disagreed. Feel free to call me a liberal but I won't be offended, I'll be flattered.
I'd also like to ask your opinion of why Idris Elba doesn't even closely resemble the character of Roland. I ask because we haven't seen him really act as of yet (except for the unfinished trailer which we didn't see too much of him in) so I'm assuming it's based on looks? What is it about him that doesn't even come close to a 1970's gunslinger besides the colour of his skin? I really do ask in all honesty and i'm not trying to accuse you of anything, or call you a name or jump to conclusions - I'm genuinely interested and would like to get a conversation going. Elba is tall (as in long, tall and ugly), he's not the prettiest of men but he's not really considered ugly - tbh it's my opinion that 'ugly' was a term of endearment from Eddie to Roland and, as discussed in another post on this board, could refer to his weathered looks. So, what do you think? I'd like to find out :-) If it really bothers you as much having Elba play the part of Roland as it would Steve Martin, yeah I can see why you're upset! Although I'd have to see that film - he was awesome in the 3 amigos.
I'd really like a civil discussion on why you think this, so I'll ask a favour of you and ask not to engage with any slander or derogatory insults to try and get a point across and I'll try to be open minded and see our point of view, what do you say? can we be peaceful to each other and talk about the dark tower film that a lot of us have been waiting years for? Long day and pleasant nights gogo.
Why do you continue to deliberately conflate one with the other? Believe it or not, there are people that want a 1:1 adaptation of The Gunslinger (or close to it) in place of a sequel while not being bigoted or cowardly about their opinions on the casting decisions. *I* would have been happy either way! I would also have loved a series of animated films (two dimensional) with an enormous budget and superb voice acting. Give me any of them. Hell, give me all three! Money is no object .
No...it's when these fans keep trotting out "PC" and "SJW" and insinuating the Elba got the role because of his skin color...not because of any gravitas/bearing he brings to the role.
Now, you can disagree with the decision to cast Elba because you simply don't think he has the chops to embody Roland of Gilead but, again, that is an issue independent of the actor's ethnic origin.
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
Elba got the role because him and McConaghey or whatever it's spelled were in the price range and had brand recognition of their own to bring to the project. That way when they sit in the board room the rip off con artists were happy.
shareTranslation: You'd accept any old sh*t they cobble together as long as they stick the Dark Tower name on it, everybody already knew that. Unless of course they decided to change Odetta's race, where you'd suddenly start going on about how they shouldn't change race and should follow the source material more.
There is no insinuating needed, Elba was only cast to be PC and for the cheap publicity the fan reaction against it that would give them. He doesn't have the ability to play the role nor does he suit it. As they say, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a *beep* duck.
And you have no right to criticise anyone for pointing out that it's PC casting in this when you are first whine 'Whitewashing' the second a character is changed to white in anything. You even go to other boards that you've never posted on before to moan about it.
Elba was only cast to be PC
He doesn't have the ability to play the role nor does he suit it.
As they say, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a *beep* duck.
Fact.
Also Fact.
Do I need to point out how you can't use that anymore since we've firmly established that you are full of sh*t on that moral stance. Still strangely quiet on confronting wolfdamage on wishing 3 people dead aren't you, odd that.
You have a serious problem. Seek help immediately.
shareChrist, who cares, people should be able to say KYS (kill your self) if they want; its called free speech. We should be able to say what we think without fear of repercussion, otherwise we're all walking around saying what others want us to say instead of what we really think.
Thought crimes are seriously dangerous territory, just look at many European countries (such as Germany) where they can be arrested for saying what they think. Racism, for example, isn't cool, but someone should be able to think how they please as long as they are not forcing it on another. Thus you are fine not liking to hear KYS, but don't tell the rest of us we cannot use it and then expect it to happen. Thats seeping into the definition of insanity territory...
Often people say things they don't really want to see happen, now we live in an age where society encourages you to keep your thoughts to yourself. Then theres the ever-present Twitter mob just waiting for someone to say something they disagree with so they can publicly shame them, which is really just another form of bullying.
"This is What You Want... This is What You Get"
Don't have a problem, don't need help. You might want to see someone about your brain being missing though, just a thought.
shareNah, you do need help.
The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.
You pretended you were me and followed me around the boards for ages, and know you are trying to say I need help? Nice try nutcase, go back to your padded room.
shareNah, you merely pretended you *weren't* I.
The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.
So still doing. Such a sad, crazy little troll... Or just desperate for my attention, either way you are just a pathetic waste of organs and blood (sadly you have no brain to waste).
share*beep* him. Akiva Goldsman is as bad as Paul Feig.
shareScrew these politically-correct, social justice warrior, 3rd wave feminazis right in the wallet; a pirates life for me! 🏴☠️
They've ruined everything from my childhood that was good: Star Trek, Star Wars, Ghostbusters, they attack gaming culture, they attack the arts, now they want to take the very characters we all love so dearly and shat out some malformed shadow of incompetence. This is the same kind of people that wanted the Twin Towers removed from older movies for fear of offending someone, what if I'm offended when they screw with the arts and try to manipulate history? They call themselves progressive when they are the opposite, they would do well to study the rise and fall of Rome, that Empire killed itself trying to appease everyone.
If they want their own stories and their own characters why don't they just screw off and make them? Oh right, because we end up with Ghostbusters (2016). Not expecting a sequel to that unless its called FUBAR.
Idris Elba is a great actor, but how about you read the source material FFS Elba! He said that Roland is not a cowboy and that there are no cattle in his world, WTF? But we are called racist because we value the stories and the characters, it was part of what made them real, what made them relatable, part of the journey. Part of growing is learning from your mistakes, but lets just skip that part? Hollywood can sit and spin.
"This is What You Want... This is What You Get"
He said that Roland is not a cowboy
I'm going to quote myself from YouTube but don't panic, I'm about to put you in a corner:
Elba is great and all but Roland is not just the gunslinger; he is a cowboy. Not only was he based on Clint Eastwood, he had a horse as did his friends...I don't know, perhaps you should read the source materials before making a movie based on them? He had huge hand-cannons and many of the people he encountered, or lived around when he was younger, were living as people did during the old western days.
This link will take you to the comment by Idris @5:21 https://youtu.be/bjRGD1886P0?t=5m21s
All of the following Dark Tower related links mention horses:
http://darktower.wikia.com/wiki/Rusher
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Sisters_of_Eluria
http://stephenking.com/darktower/misc/dark_tower_characters.html
http://darktower.wikia.com/wiki/Cuthbert_Allgood
http://darktower.wikia.com/wiki/Mordred_Deschain
There are various references to cattle as well: https://www.google.com/search?q=roland+of+gilead+cowboy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=roland+of+gilead+cow
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At the time I linked above, Idris states that Roland does not have a horse and is not a cowboy. This is not true. I linked various references proving my point; horses, cattle, and an overall western way of life.
To the slow mutant that commented above you; knights had horses as well, it was kind of their signature thing.
Roland the character is also based on a real military leader named Roland; who served under my great great great great x x x grandfather Charlemagne. He was a actual knight who rode on a horse, carried a mighty sword, and was said to have a horn, is this sounding familiar yet?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland
"He became the chief paladin of the emperor Charlemagne and a central figure in the legendary material surrounding him, collectively known as the Matter of France. The first and most famous of these epic treatments was the Old French Chanson de Roland of the eleventh century."
&
"Roland is poetically associated with his sword Durendal, his horse Veillantif, and his oliphant horn."
BONUS HISTORY LESSON:
In the year 1000 they dug up Charlemagne because the people of the time believed it was the end times (the Apocalypse & then the Rapture). They thought that he would return to life and fight Satan. I've always felt that this means some people saw Charlemagne as a Christ or Christ-like deity; the son of man.
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Found more info: "The Paladins, sometimes known as the Twelve Peers, were the foremost warriors of Charlemagne's court, according to the literary cycle known as the Matter of France.[1] They first appear in the early chansons de geste such as The Song of Roland, where they represent Christian valour against the Saracen hordes inside Europe."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin
Twelve knights, just like the twelve disciples of Christ....blood, red, red blood, crimson, rose, red pill, sacrifice...OMG, its full of stars.....Neo....just take both pills, think different? Purple? Anyways, my friend Google is a smarty and this is what he said about knights:
knightnīt/noun: knight; plural noun: knights
1. (in the Middle Ages) a man who served his sovereign or lord as a mounted soldier in armor.
synonyms: cavalier, cavalryman, horseman; Morelord, noble, nobleman; historical chevalier, paladin, banneret "knights in armor"(in the Middle Ages) a man raised by a sovereign to honorable military rank after service as a page and squire. literary a man devoted to the service of a woman or a cause."in all your quarrels I will be your knight"dated(in ancient Rome) a member of the class of equites.(in ancient Greece) a citizen of the second class in Athens.
2. (in the UK) a man awarded a nonhereditary title by the sovereign in recognition of merit or service and entitled to use the honorific “Sir” in front of his name.
3. a chess piece, typically with its top shaped like a horse's head, that moves by jumping to the opposite corner of a rectangle two squares by three.
verb: knight; 3rd person present: knights; past tense: knighted; past participle: knighted; gerund or present participle: knighting
1. invest (someone) with the title of knight.
H O R S E M A N
https://www.google.com/search?q=paladin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=knight
You didn't mention anything about a horse and neither did I. Were you more interested in achieving a victory by expanding the parameters of your initial statement or nailing down the character's profession?
TvTropes, yeah, okay Anita Sarcreepian.
So, in your mind, cowboys & knights ride around on what, cows? Or what? I just want to clarify the lengths you will go to when denying reality.
Also, the comment is in reference to what Elba stated in the video I linked, did you even get the memo bro? Its kind of rude to skim what someone wrote, makes me feel like you want to take part in the converse but you don't really have anything of value to add because only your opinion matters, so why read what the other guy wrote, is that the gist of it?
"This is What You Want... This is What You Get"
A cowboy is a specific profession/way of life. Roland is not a cowboy. It is that simple.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy
A cowboy is an animal herder who tends cattle on ranches in North America, traditionally on horseback, and often performs a multitude of other ranch-related tasks.
You think they only have cowboys in North America? Thats ignorant as...I don't even know. We have cowboys here in Hawaii, and for your information, Hawaii is not part of North America. Just a little tidbit for yaz there guy.
You know, if you're going to cite a wiki page, you should read it first as well:
The cowboy has deep historic roots tracing back to Spain and the earliest European settlers of the Americas. Over the centuries, differences in terrain, climate and the influence of cattle-handling traditions from multiple cultures created several distinct styles of equipment, clothing and animal handling. As the ever-practical cowboy adapted to the modern world, the cowboy's equipment and techniques also adapted to some degree, though many classic traditions are still preserved today.
Oh for fu...
All I did was copy the entry. I was not implying that only the Americas had and have cowboys (vaqueros, anyone?). Besides which, given that the topic mostly concerns Mid/All-World, I felt that it wasn't necessary to slice out part of a sentence that I wanted to quote in it's entirety.
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
So I take it you've never admitted defeat? How Weskeresk of you. Committed to the task even if its futile, I appreciate your dedication to the character...though personally I find the Biohazard series a bit of a bore. However, this next one really does look like a return to glory. 💀
"This is What You Want... This is What You Get"
Idris was right and wrong. Roland is not a cowboy (though he does have those skills), but cowboys and cattle do exist (or did) in his world.
See how easy that was? I didn't have to go the library or quote Jesus.
Did he say cowboys/cattle don't exist in Mid-World in general? If so, I didn't catch that part of the quote.
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
That is what Mr. Wolf said. I am not sure if he provided the actual Elba quote or not.
shareExcuse me. That is what the fox said.
shareI watched the video at 5:21. Turns out he says "There are no cows. He doesn't have a horse."
Now, I would be very surprised if he literally meant "there are no cows/bovines and/or cowboys in all of Mid-World" by that first sentence. More likely, in the context and way he said it, he probably meant that Roland wouldn't be around cows/there aren't any cows in the film itself.
Anyhow...regardless of that, the point on Roland not being a cowboy still stands.
(It should also be noted that when the interviewer mentions "medieval knight" in regards to Roland's appearance at 5:08, Elba nods his head in response.)
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
I don't know, if you cannot watch the entire video, I don't really see that as a counter-argument.
Found something interesting. | Idris Elba, on playing a cowboy:
On playing a cowboy in The Dark Tower: "I've always wanted to try the whole cowboy feel and look, so when I took this role, I was wondering, 'Are we going to bring that to life in this character? Is he a real cowboy?' And the answer was no. We had to reinvent that a little bit because the world — it's quite a fantastical world and we aren't making a Western. But there's definitely some characteristics from those great cowboy movies, the Sergio Leone movies and all. I was definitely drawn to it. I've got two smoking guns that just look incredible, and I love to pull them out whenever I can."
I pretty much already said the same thing -> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1648190/board/flat/262950911?d=263129909#263129909
Roland may portray some aesthetics of the Hollywood American Wild West cowboy (who is, more accurately, typically a gunslinger with some ranch-hand experience)
This is you:
A cowboy is a specific profession/way of life. Roland is not a cowboy. It is that simple
What is so "what the fчck about it?" He isn't a cowboy*.
On playing a cowboy in The Dark Tower: "I've always wanted to try the whole cowboy feel and look, so when I took this role, I was wondering, 'Are we going to bring that to life in this character? Is he a real cowboy?' And the answer was no. We had to reinvent that a little bit because the world — it's quite a fantastical world and we aren't making a Western. But there's definitely some characteristics from those great cowboy movies, the Sergio Leone movies and all. I was definitely drawn to it. I've got two smoking guns that just look incredible, and I love to pull them out whenever I can."
What does his desire have to do with what the character actually is? He had a mistaken first impression influencing him...it happens.
This - all of this - predates the film by a good thirty-four years.
P.S. Is that signature of yours in reference to a Public Image Limited song?
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
He said they had to change the character for the movie. I don't see what you are missing beyond that.
Yeah bra, do yourself a favor and watch Hardware (1990) if you have not:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099740/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
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Hardware - The Order of Death - Public Image Ltd - PiL
https://youtu.be/hMaVIAlJlnw
Public Image Ltd - The Order Of Death (Ninth Wave's B.A.A.L Remix
https://youtu.be/t5yNgTvD1qo
"This is What You Want... This is What You Get"
Screw these politically-correct, social justice warrior, 3rd wave feminazis right in the wallet; a pirates life for me! 🏴☠️Whether you're blaming these ills on women specifically or on separate groups, namely the "politically correct," the "SJWs," and the "feminazis," I have to disagree with the implications in the case of this movie. No one's even seen it yet, so no one knows for sure whether it's good, bad, or otherwise. Also, "they" - whoever they may be - haven't ruined everything that was good from your childhood. No one said you have to watch or even like the newer movies, games, etc. and the original versions of the things you mentioned still exist. You can easily revisit and enjoy the originals as just you remember them.
They've ruined everything from my childhood that was good: Star Trek, Star Wars, Ghostbusters, they attack gaming culture, they attack the arts, now they want to take the very characters we all love so dearly and shat out some malformed shadow of incompetence. This is the same kind of people that wanted the Twin Towers removed from older movies for fear of offending someone, what if I'm offended when they screw with the arts and try to manipulate history? They call themselves progressive when they are the opposite, they would do well to study the rise and fall of Rome, that Empire killed itself trying to appease everyone.
Idris Elba is a great actor, but how about you read the source material FFS Elba!Is it absolutely necessary for every actor who portrays a preexisting book character to read the source material? I'd say not really. Although, I'd think the director and/or writer(s) should be intimately familiar with the source material so they can properly convey the inner workings of the characters to the actors portraying them and get the best performances possible out of their actors. Luckily, Arcel has read the series and is a huge fan. All we can hope for is that his love for the story and his particular vision make for a good adaptation.
He said that Roland is not a cowboy and that there are no cattle in his world, WTF?I'm pretty sure Idris was referring to the movie here, not the source material. When they're discussing Roland's look in the movie and he says "There are no cows. He doesn't have a horse," it was an obviously a small joke to emphasize the fact that Roland is not a cowboy, even though his appearance in the movie is inspired by the typical "Spaghetti Western" look. Nothing more, nothing less.
But we are called racist because we value the stories and the characters, it was part of what made them real, what made them relatable, part of the journey. Part of growing is learning from your mistakes, but lets just skip that part? Hollywood can sit and spin.I think it's safe to say that everyone who's been wanting this story to come to the big screen for years values the stories and the characters, and that includes people on both sides of this casting debate. Now obviously, jumping to conclusions and shouting "racist" at someone who disagrees with the casting because they like fidelity for fidelity's sake or because it might affect the O/Detta/Susannah portion of the story is unfair. To me, those are perfectly understandable reasons to disagree with the casting. However, it's just as unfair to make assumptions and hurl "PC," "SJW," some variation of "you're not a true fan," and the like at someone who embraces the casting and the rest of the changes just because they'd like to see something a little different from what they've already read, or they feel getting the spirit and tone of the story right is more important, etc. Dark Tower fans are not a monolith and that's perfectly fine with me. share
You realize feminists come in more then one gender, yes? Then don't make assumptions which paint me as some type of misogynist. Your mental gymnastics are just that and little more when you base them on what you assume...plus, when you make these assumptions you are only attempting to make an '@ss' out of 'u' and 'me'.
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Yes, they are ruining the older movies because they are saying those universes are not the same anymore:
Star Wars; all the EU (expanded universe) stuff is thrown out, little things like Leia becoming a Jedi. All the extra novels and games, throw out. Never happened.
Star Trek; they threw out the Temporal Police and made Sulu gay, something George Takei, Gene Roddenberry, and many others were against. The media has been hyping up gay Sulu and the new LGBT characters in the next series as something new, stating that Trek has never had gay characters...which is 100% wrong, as anyone who watched the shows would know. So to hype up the newer additions they need to tarnish and disrespect the originals? By making Sulu gay they killed Demora, Sulu's daughter, ah, but we see a girl in the movie...and this is said to be Demora...okay back up...if Sulu is and always was gay in this universe then how did he have Demora? Its not explained, okay, so in the original timeline we get answers, in the new timeline we get spectacle and little more.
Dark Tower; I covered this above and you defend Idris Elba for not reading the source material? That is insane. Of course he should read the books so he knows his proper motivation, no wonder he doesn't know there are cattle in Mid-World. The fact that its hyped as a continuation that will include the horn is interesting, but to change the main character so much that they need to leave out Eddie & Odetta/Detta is deplorable. It means we still don't know if or what Detta will even be. Will she be white, will she be from a different time? It completely changes the characters dynamic and interactions, the very progression of the story.
I'm curious, would you be okay with a white actor playing the role of Shaft in a new movie? Or perhaps Genghis Khan played by a lesbian seagull? Abraham Lincoln played by an Asian? In the next Hobbit movie, say there was one, what if they did a reboot and said all Hobbits are now Giants...that would be okay because we still have the originals...? You wouldn't find it annoying if Dracula stopped sucking blood and started selling Bibles? That would be okay? IMO, 'hell no', thats completely misrepresenting what the stories are about.
Some variation of "you're not a true fan,"Don't attempt to put words in my mouth, especially not in your weak rebuttal.
I find it odd that you're a Trekkie, given how left leaning ("PC") the franchise as a whole is.
if Sulu is and always was gay in this universe then how did he have Demora?
but to change the main character so much that they need to leave out Eddie & Odetta/Detta
I'm curious, would you be okay with a white actor playing the role of Shaft in a new movie? Or perhaps Genghis Khan played by a lesbian seagull? Abraham Lincoln played by an Asian? In the next Hobbit movie, say there was one, what if they did a reboot and said all Hobbits are now Giants...that would be okay because we still have the originals...? You wouldn't find it annoying if Dracula stopped sucking blood and started selling Bibles? That would be okay? IMO, 'hell no', thats completely misrepresenting what the stories are about.
Well, I really like Idris, he was amazing in last year's Beasts of No Nation & the only good thing in that abomination of a Thor movie.
He could make a great Gunslinger, I just don't want that to change everything else about the story. Now Roland isn't a cowboy, by Elba's own words, see my other recent comment for the citation.
I get that Eddie & Detta will most likely show up later and thats fine, they show up later in the originals as well. But not if it means they are Eddie & Detta only in name, that is the point I was trying to illustrate. I'm fine with variables being switched up, but they need to think about the implications of those very changes. Many sections of Mid-World are very western cowboy influenced, such as Tull, so if they remove the cowboy theme, what does that world become...and Roland? Eddie recognizes Roland as a similar arch-type to Clint Eastwood, even down to the looks, the way he presents himself, and the way he is dressed. How will that carry over to Elba who does not look like either Eastwood or King?
I am excited the story is expanding and continuing, I just hope they don't muck it up with these changes.
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Don't confuse PC anything with liberal anything; thats dangerous. PC people use their apparent indignation to manipulate those around them, as if they are the only one's worthy of being offended. At any rate, I'm not attached to either call-sign, I don't need to fit into a box nor do I need to agree with some vocal majority; I believe in true artistic freedom. I believe Mein Kampf should be kept rather then lost to history, even though I don't agree with it.
That freedom though, you have to have some respect for the original materials, like reading them for one. Look what happened to Ghostbusters, its a travesty and its shats all over the originals by saying they never happened.
"This is What You Want... This is What You Get"
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Of course King would say he's fine with it - he has to. Can you imagine the crapstorm that would happen if he had even hinted that he would have preferred the character casted as written - ie, a middle-aged, rough-looking white man?
BLM and #oscarssowhite would be permacamping in his yard!
You realize feminists come in more then one gender, yes? Then don't make assumptions which paint me as some type of misogynist. Your mental gymnastics are just that and little more when you base them on what you assume...plus, when you make these assumptions you are only attempting to make an '@ss' out of 'u' and 'me'.LOL - of course I realize feminists come in more than one gender. I never said they didn't. And I didn't paint you as anything; I didn't have to. I'm simply going by what you originally said, and "Screw these politically-correct, social justice warrior, 3rd wave feminazis right in the wallet" is pretty self-explanatory. That being said, it looks like the only one making assumptions here is you.
Yes, they are ruining the older movies because they are saying those universes are not the same anymoreAgain, you can easily choose to ignore the ones you don't like and stick to the original movies, games, etc. For example, I see people refusing to claim the Star Wars prequels and the later Resident Evil games all the time. As long as the original movies, games, etc. exist in their original forms, you can always go back and enjoy them.
I covered this above and you defend Idris Elba for not reading the source material? That is insane. Of course he should read the books so he knows his proper motivation, no wonder he doesn't know there are cattle in Mid-World.Maybe I should've been a little clearer here. What I should've said was "Is it absolutely necessary for every actor who portrays a preexisting book character to read the source material prior to getting the role? I think I remember reading somewhere that either Elba or Arcel said or implied that he had started reading the books afterwards. But more to the point: I don't consider it a requirement, though at the very least the director and/or writers definitely should be intimately familiar with it, and Arcel is. In fact, from what I remember of an early interview, Arcel conveying who Roland is, his strengths and weaknesses, and what drives him as a character to Elba is exactly what got him interested in the role in the first place.
The fact that its hyped as a continuation that will include the horn is interesting, but to change the main character so much that they need to leave out Eddie & Odetta/Detta is deplorable.Maybe you haven't heard about this, but Eddie and O/Detta/Susannah are not being left out of the story. Assuming this movie does well, the filmmakers have guaranteed them for the next movie. Personally, I'm fine with them not being in the first movie since it will give them a chance to fully establish Roland, Jake, and Walter as characters. My guess is that adding Eddie and O/Detta/Susannah most likely would've been too much and wouldn't have allowed the characters the development they deserve.
It means we still don't know if or what Detta will even be. Will she be white, will she be from a different time? It completely changes the characters dynamic and interactions, the very progression of the story.Well, not necessarily. It changes O/Detta/Susannah's interactions with Roland a bit, but Roland being black doesn't guarantee that part of the story arc is now ruined. The easiest solution to this dilemma I've seen: Shift all of Detta's hatred of whites onto Eddie, and have her think of Roland as a "race traitor" just for aligning himself with Eddie (in this case, Roland would be a "honky-lovin' mahfah"). This would keep the rest of the ka-tet from having to be altered too much, accommodate Roland's race change, and maintain the tone of the conflict itself (and could make it even more interesting with Detta's hate being two-pronged).
I'm curious, would you be okay with a white actor playing the role of Shaft in a new movie? Or perhaps Genghis Khan played by a lesbian seagull? Abraham Lincoln played by an Asian? In the next Hobbit movie, say there was one, what if they did a reboot and said all Hobbits are now Giants...that would be okay because we still have the originals...? You wouldn't find it annoying if Dracula stopped sucking blood and started selling Bibles? That would be okay? IMO, 'hell no', thats completely misrepresenting what the stories are about.Facetiousness aside, these examples are false equivalencies. According to the information Stephen King gives us about Mid-World, a societal structure based on race doesn't exist there. Therefore, Roland's skin being a different color would not fundamentally change who he is as a character. All of the changes you listed fundamentally affect the people and characters you mentioned.
Don't attempt to put words in my mouth, especially not in your weak rebuttal.I was actually speaking generally with the "some variation of 'you're not a true fan'" comment since that complaint is often mentioned in conjunction with the rest on this board. I wasn't talking about you specifically.
Just because you are blind to the impact the so-called politically correct are having on the arts does not mean the rest of us are blind to it. The same PC people that ban books, the same people that try and distort history by removing the Twin Towers from older movies, the same people that give up privacy for a false sense of security. You can act like they don't exist but that doesn't "make it so".For someone who doesn't like words put into their mouth, you sure like putting words in the mouths of others lol. I never said, implied, or acted like "overpolicing," for lack of a better word, doesn't exist. I know of plenty of instances where changing or eliminating certain things to cater to people seem unnecessary. However in this instance, I don't believe that the simple change of a character's skin color will adversely affect Roland or The Dark Tower as a whole. share
Whether you're blaming these ills on women specifically or on separate groups
And I didn't paint you as anything; I didn't have to.
You just lost any credibility, at least stand by your words. If you don't mean what you say its kinda pointless getting in a debate of any sort unless chaos is the subject. The pretense that you are calling me a misogynist without using the word is evident, the back-tracking though...thats just pathetic.LOL - I always stand by what I say. Anybody who's interacted with me here over the years can tell you that. And there's been no backtracking on my end. I may be missing something here, but honestly, all I did was draw a conclusion based on the content of your post. To be fair, when most people mention "feminazis," they're almost exclusively referring to women. As such, I didn't make an assumption; I drew a plausible conclusion. If there's another way to interpret "Screw these politically-correct, social justice warrior, 3rd wave feminazis right in the wallet" other than the ways I mentioned earlier, please feel free to elaborate.
You actually believe Arcel when he claims to have read the book, wow.
shareWell, I'm not giving my money to this *beep* If Susannah was cast as white people would be equally pissed. Does that make them racist?
shareThe people defending the idiotic PC casting of Roland would never stop complaining about it if they changed Odetta/Detta/Susannah's race. Mainly because they are hypocrites who like to pretend that race doesn't matter in fictional characters but only apply that logic to the white characters.
You'll find most of the people defending Elba in this are on other boards whining about a white character being cast in something where the character wasn't originally white.