MovieChat Forums > The Dark Tower (2017) Discussion > Debate *potential spoilers*

Debate potential spoilers

posted 8 years ago by guyamos
13 replies | jump to latest

Hi guys,

there's been a lot of hostility on this board and I was hoping that we could start a thread that has a genuine, mature conversation about The Dark Tower film.

I'm going to start this in the hope that people can lay out all of their hopes and fears for this film and have a discussion to see if we can put forward our opinions in a safe place with a clean slate (so Captain and Spidey, you have your own thing going on but I'd prefer it to take place outside of this thread, thank you. But please, please both feel free to join in though as I'd like to see both of your opinions).

I'll start...

1) there's a lot of worry about Roland being played by Idris Elba. I would like to know why people are so worried. If it's about his acting skills, what specifically have you seen that you have particulary hated him in? have you seen many of his films/shows or just one or two? I first noticed him in the Wire and he really stood out for me, then noticed him in the US Office, then he kept on popping up in various things and finally I watched Luther and I could see a very diverse actor with a huge range of talent.

If it's because of the colour of his skin, I have very recently posted about what I experienced on my latest read the TDOTT and it really hit home that race really isn't an issue but my memory had in fact made it a bigger deal than it was. Detta seems to call him 'Honky', 'Greymeat' etc, but she refers to the potential homosexual acts between Eddie and Roland, which I didn't even remember at first, more than the racial references and she rarely, if ever, says anything specific about their race that couldn't be replaced with another insult. In my opinion, at the very least, Detta has always been the personification of hate to a fault, where Odetta was always one of love but to a fault (wanting to help people, her kindness, the civil rights movement down in Oxford Town) whilst Susannah is the joining together of these concepts to create one whole person, because without love, you can't hate and vice versa. Again, that's just my opinion, what thoughts do others have?

2) the crew... there's been a lot about these guys, especially Akiva Goldsman. yes, he did invent the bat credit card and the bat nipple. Big mistake :-)

I did recently read an article (no source I'm afraid but it's out there) where the cast and crew spoke about Batman and Robin and how quickly everything moved from the filming of Batman Forever to this, so Goldsman was exhausted and forced to write the script in about a week. It's no forgiveness but at least it explains a few things. He did also go on to write A Beautiful Mind, a fantastic film.

As for Arcel, he has been critically acclaimed and been hired to work on a project that people have been trying to get off the ground for years. I highly doubt that the likes of Ron Howard etc. would just throw a dart at a board of names and pick whoever it landed on. I'm looking forward to seeing his version of this film.

3) Marketing. Specifically, towards the age of the audience. I hate to reference myself, but I did try and make a point about how it's not aimed at a youth audience but rather at an adult audience (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1648190/board/thread/263058375?d=263084157#263084157).

4) The movement of the date. It could just be down to the fact that shooting, editing, marketing and FX all completed within a year was a bit optimistic so they moved it back. It could also be another reason. I would love to know peoples thoughts.

5) How do you think they'll tie in the TV series?

I've started to hope that the series will tell the story of the Drawing of the Three as a framing device and tell Wizard and Glass through flashbacks when Roland is on the beach in a very fragile state.

Sorry for the rant but I've gotten fed up of how sometimes this board can almost be like a playground. And as a teacher, I can definitely relate it! I'd love a place where Dark Tower fans can talk openly about the series of books being adapted in to this film without fear of name calling, accusations or temper tantrums no matter if they are excited or anxious.

As I said, I'd love to get some discussion going and remember, these are just my opinions and if you think I'm wrong, feel free to say so but at least give me a reason why.

Long days and pleasant nights fellow gunslingers.

[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

5) How do you think they'll tie in the TV series?

I've started to hope that the series will tell the story of the Drawing of the Three as a framing device and tell Wizard and Glass through flashbacks when Roland is on the beach in a very fragile state.

At this point, I am highly curious as to whether any of the film's cast are going to show up in the televised series. You would think at least Elba/Roland will put in an appearance...but it is entirely possible that the story begins in the flashback and ends in the flashback (perhaps with Elba playing the role of "Roland as Narrator" during the introductory period in order to provide us with some brief exposition).

---
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

[–] guyamos 8 years ago

It has been confirmed that Elba will be returning, as well as Tom Taylor (Jake).

Sources:
http://www.indiewire.com/2016/09/the-dark-tower-tv-series-idris-elba-wizard-and-glass-adaptation-stephen-king-1201729178/
http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/the-dark-tower/43840/the-dark-tower-tv-series-announced
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/09/21/dark-tower-tv-series-stephen-king-wizard-glass

Hope this helps Captain. I like the idea of Roland as Narrator, I haven't read the script but if there's an opportunity for Roland to tell his tale of Mejis to Jake for the TV series, it would make sense.

Have you any thoughts who would be a good cast for the series?

[–] jerryhammond38 8 years ago

1. You really just have to imagine Roland is now black on the last page of the story. The problem people are having is that they wanted a straight adaptation, and this isn't not going to be it. The casting was just the first clue.

2,3,4. I have no problem taking a wait and see attitude with all of that. I just want a good film.

5. I cannot wait to see how this plays out.Roland's wonder years are my favorite part of the story.

[–] guyamos 8 years ago

1. that's a good way of looking at things Jerry. My version is re-reading the series just picturing ELba, but your way of having still having their version of Roland in their heads on the first go round, reading the last page differently, and then being able to accept Elba seems a win-win. I'm happy either way as I like the actor and really looking forward to seeing him.

5. I really like the idea of adapting Wizard and Glass. Every time I've read it, it's surprised me at how it can drift so far from the journey to the tower but still be a true DT story. The writing is some of Kings best IMO, and I hope it can be translated well on screen.

[–] Tiomagic 8 years ago

My main problem with Idris playing Roland has nothing to do with race, but everything to do with colour, if that makes sense. I have seen him in a few things and I have no doubt he will do his best with the part. They could cast him as Bond, Superman, DR Who or Batman and it wouldn’t bother me. The difference between those characters and Roland is they have each had several interpretations on both the large and small screen. This is Roland’s first outing on the big screen and in my opinion they should stick as close as possible to the source material. I’ve waited a long time to see the Dark Tower come to the big screen, and I wanted it to be the story Stephen King told. Instead we’re getting someone else’s interpretation of a sequel to the Dark Tower. I’ll still go to see it just to satisfy my curiosity but I’m not really hyped for it anymore.
As for the TV series I think it’ll tell the story of Young Roland from Wizard and Glass. My least favourite part of the story personally

[–] joannatn 8 years ago

See, but the problem I have with the above, Tio, is that why can't it still be Stephen King's story with the alteration in Roland's skin color? As Guy and I and several others have stated before, Roland is not just a white guy. Roland can still be Roland no matter what his skin color is. His being white had absolutely no bearing on his social status, his upbringing, his opportunities... I just don't get your issue. I'm not saying you're not allowed to have an opinion on the matter; I'm just saying I don't understand the problem.

I'm also surprised to find another person that dislikes W&G. I mean, I consider that one of the best books I've ever read, yet a lot of people didn't dig it. Again, I guess that is just a matter of personal preference (or opinion, to maintain the theme).

[–] Tiomagic 8 years ago

hi joannatn

Idris isn’t the thing that makes me think it isn’t Stephen king’s story they are telling. Its the other stuff like them not starting with the Gunslinger, it being set mainly in modern day New York, Jake being a physic that the man in black needs to help bring down the beams. If the harry Potter films had never been made and they announced them but said they were beginning with book 3 changing Harry to Harriet replacing Ron and Hermione with Dennis Creevey and lavender Brown and the film would be set mainly in Durmstrang instead of Hogwarts would that still be the story J K Rowling told .
Plus they have pretty much said its the next cycle of the story so although it may bear some resemblance to the Dark Tower Stephen King wrote they are not telling that story

[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

it being set mainly in modern day New York

Has this been verified? It looks closer to a fifty/fifty split to me. That is to say, there will be an equal emphasis on both Jake's Earth and Mid-World.

---
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

[–] guyamos 8 years ago

Hi Tio!

Thanks for contributing and being honest with your answer, it's nice to have some new POVs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I think you're saying is that it's not Roland's race, or even the colour of his skin that is concerning you but just the fact that he looks different to how he is the books. I can understand that and appreciate it but respectfully I disagree. In my opinion I think there's always going to be differences from books to screen and it's extremely rare to get even a character exact, sometimes it's more important for the right acting to get the part than the right look. and I'd rather have a black guy play Roland than someone who couldn't get his character right.

I do completely understand where you're coming from with wanting to keep it close to the books, the Dark Tower is one of my all time favourite series and I've waited years for something to happen. I do think though that although we're not getting a direct adaptation, we are still getting something. I've remained optimistic because we are finally getting something with a good crew, a good cast and a potential for an accompanying TV series and I'm really looking forward to it.

There's also the other differences you've pointed out that I have to disagree with, I do get that they are not doing a straight adaption but all we can judge it on now is hearsay and the leaked trailer, the film could turn out brilliantly and it could be a genius move, or it could be a bad move, either way for now we just don't know. Maybe a real trailer will come along within the next few weeks/months and we can have more to go on.

What do you think of the idea of it being the next cycle of the story? do you think that it was a mistake or do you think it's a fresh take? I'm holding out hope that it's a good adaptation and that they've done well. They're taking it seriously and have shown that and they seem to be directing it towards their fans (even without a direct adaptation).

And what didn't you like about Wizard and Glass if you don't mind me asking? The first time I read it, I was thrown by the sudden diversion from the storyline but it quickly became possibly my (joint) favourite in the series. If you're interested, the graphic novels released by Marvel were fantastic and even went to chronical his ka-tet's journey between Wizard and Glass and The Gunslinger (and beyond!).

[–] Tiomagic 8 years ago

Hi Guyamos
Thanks for the reply. I normally avoid commenting on these boards because they can get a bit argumentative with the same arguments going round and round. But i like every other fan have my opinions and when i saw your thread hoping for a more civilized discussion of people’s opinions I thought I’d give it a go.

You are correct when you say that it isn’t Idris Elba’s colour or race that bothers me but I do prefer that when they adapt books especially for the first time they stay true to the source material. Despite my initial disappointment I have accepted the casting and hope Idris will pull it off.

It is true there are many rumours about what the film will cover and a wait and see attitude is probably the best approach. I’m hopeful that the film will be great and spawn many sequels so we get to see the entire tale.

I’m not a fan of the next cycle idea. I know that it will allow the film makers the freedom to change the story to better adapt it to film. Unfortunately there is a selfish part of my mind that wants the Dark Tower as it was written. However I will go to the cinema to watch it and hope that they have done it justice.

Wizard and Glass I have read about eight or nine times (I re-read the series every other year) I read it fully the first time finding the story of Roland, Cuthbert and Alain’s mission in Mejis only mildly interesting, more of a distraction from the main story than anything else. The second time I read it I got halfway through and skipped to the end of that part, ever since I have skipped that part altogether. Maybe i will give it another try next time round.

What are your thoughts on the series, especially the last three which a lot of people seem to dislike? Personally I never had a problem with the last three, the introduction of “Lightsabers”, “Harry Potter Sneetches” & the author himself never bothered me

I Suppose in the end we all have our ideal movie, but we’ll take what we can get

[–] joannatn 8 years ago

Hey, again, Tio (and Guy)! Hope you don't mind me chiming in again.

I do understand your disappointment with the fact we're not getting the story we know. I mean, I'm sure that's why they keep saying sequel instead of adaptation. However, I'm actually hopeful for a... and I'm sure I'll get a little criticism for saying this... but a happier ending. We know how this ends. We know how it works out for some, but not at all for others. See, this "sequel" (or retelling or final turn or however you want to spin it) gives me hope that this time it will work out for the people Roland had to lose along the way. So I suppose that's why an exact duplication of the books is not something I'm lamenting the loss of.

I'm really surprised you are so uninterested in the W&G story that you skip the bulk of it. I mean, it's one of my favorite stories, but it's also very important to Roland for that part of his past to be known to his ka-tet. And honestly, if it means that much to him that it be told, then it means that much to me that I listen. I hope you do give it another try this read around. Besides, I mean... Cuthbert. 'Nuff said.

Truthfully, I'm reading the entire series again because I have forgotten so much. The last 3 books I've only read once, but I think most of that is because once we start losing people, I start to get upset. But the story is good enough that I'll muscle through it a second go. And to be honest, the Harry Potter references always bemused me, but pleasantly. I know that Stephen King and J.K. Rowling are very friendly, so I thought it kind of cute that she'd leant him some of her babies to use in conjunction with some of his. I enjoy Easter eggs and genre blends so I mean... Hell! If you take elements from my favorite series of books and use them in my second favorite series, that's just a little more fun for me!

In the end we're all fans here. I mean, we'll enjoy the movies or we won't, but I'm more than willing to give 'em a fair shake before passing my final judgment.

[–] guyamos 8 years ago

Well said :-)

[–] guyamos 8 years ago

I appreciate you commenting - it's really nice to have a place where people can talk civilly and with their own opinions up for debate.

I can understand wanting it to stay true but I'm happy with it, it's an original idea and adds to the ethos of the books having a cyclical nature and the wheel of Ka. Even if it doesn't work, I'm glad the majority of us are going in optimistically :-)

If you can, I really would give W&G another go. It was fantastic but like I said if you're not up for that, the graphic novels retell it in a good way and then add more backstory i.e. Battle of Tull, Little Sisters of Eluria etc.

I quite enjoyed the last three books. They did feel slightly rushed but the Magnificent Seven style of WotC, the return to the keystone world in SoS and the beautiful writing and the heartbreaking deaths in TDT. I was slightly dissapointed by the final battle, Crimson King in general and the Modred storyline (including the death of Walter) and thought that it could have been written better but at the end of the day, it's a great series and I wanted the best from it. King is only human and it was so well written throughout that it doesn't bother me too much.

The inclusion of Lightsabers, Harry Potter, Dr Doom etc. was slightly surreal but I really enjoyed it. I loved having the intertextuality of what I'm already a fan of in these books and it added a new dimension to a great series.