MovieChat Forums > The Dark Tower (2017) Discussion > This approach could really work!

This approach could really work!


First of all I am a huge fan of the series and am currently rereading them all. When I first read that this film wouldn't be a straight up adaptation, but a sequel of sorts, another iteration of Roland's quest. The subtle nod with him starting his journey with the horn of Eld is a nice touch. One that shows me that filmmakers "get" the material. This allows to mostly follow the books with taking some liberties. Think Walking Dead comic vs. Walking Dead tv show.

In regard to Roland, who cares that he is a black dude. To me it's the spirit of the character that matters, the weight and guilt he carries around with him. If it was Susannah Dean then it would be slightly different for me only because her race or at least the obstacles and struggles someone of color had to deal with especially in the time period she came from are a part of the plot itself.


Anyway, I say let's keep our fingers crossed, remain cautiously optimistic, and remember the face of our fathers.

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This is very well put. Nice post! I personally rather like the idea that Jake is proactively looking for Roland from the start of the story. His character changed from being mostly reactive in The Gunslinger to being very proactive in The Wastelands. Reactive characters, by and large, do not make for compelling films - or novels for that matter. So I think this small, yet significant character change makes a lot of sense. As long as they make a good movie, one that allows the actors room to breathe, and develop the characters properly I will be happy. The film needs to be true to the spirit of the story. From what little I've seen, we're in good shape so far.

A trailer would tell us a great deal about the film, I think. Can't wait!

"Long days and pleasant nights!"

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Thanks for the kind reply :) I agree about making Jake a more proactive character, I had actually never really thought about it until you mentioned it. I suppose all 4 of our protagonists show a good amount of growth throughout the series.

I also think by making him more proactive initially can be seen as Jake evolving and learning on some more spiritual or you know deeper level, just as it appears Roland does by starting with the horn. Like on some level they are all just trying to find their own peace and nirvana and by this version are slightly farther along their "evolution".

My only fear of any, that they make this feel like a 2 hour introduction. If they are going to make this work, it needs to feel like a stand alone film that has some sense of closure, while also leaving open the massive World, or I suppose worlds that need to be traveled by his Ka-tet. If it feels satisfying on its own, then I think it will open up causal audiences and us super fans to more of this universe. If it feels like 2 hour commercial for the next one, people won't be as into it. That's why I think it's good that they can borrow elements from all the books to better inform the casual audience that while this is a cool story it is part of something epic.

To quote Mr. Myagi, "If done right, no one can defend." Or something like that :)

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I agree with you guys completely. I really wish people could just reserve judgment until we've had a chance to see what Idris Elba does with Roland. I'm really excited about this, though. I've been a fan of the series since I was 13 years old (probably too young to appreciate the story, but a reread in my late 20's helped). Now here I am pushing 40 and we're finally getting this on the screen? I got my fingers crossed here, but since I'm also another typical hypocrite, I'm trying not to get too far ahead of myself. Don't want to set myself up for a disappointment!

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This approach won't work. All this approach shows is the filmmakers have zero respect for the source material and are using one aspect to just massive changes and a poor casting.

And you are the typical kind of hypocrite when it comes to character race changes. Race is unimportant and it's the sprit of the character, until it comes to the very idea of changing a black character and suddenly race is the most important aspect.

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And spider comments in 3... 2... 11 hours ago.

The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.

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Oh look it's my shadow.
There I replied to you, now you have the attention you so obviously crave from me.

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Hey spider, whoa, hostile much? I love the source material and disagree with you're assumptions of why they cast Roland the way they did. Also I really wouldn't care if they changed a blank character or any other characters race if that actor did the role justice and the characters race wasn't a major part of the story's narrative. In this case I don't think Roland being played by a black guy impacts the story. In contrast Detta/Odetta/ Susan Dean's race plays a part in the earlier part of the story's narrative because of the time period she was living in and how that informed her narrative. His does Roland's race factor into the story? His world that he grew up in and lost, from the snippets we are shown it doesn't look like race was really a factor there. I feel like the way your coming off that you are just shut down to the whole thing. My main point in my original post is that, let's just give it a chance. After the movie comes out maybe people might be like I couldn't imagine another person playing Roland if Idris nails the role.

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Nice try, umb, many of us have tried to reason with him but Spider is incapable of seeing the distinction you're making and will most likely call you a hypocrite for it. Yet when it comes to comic book adaptations like the MCU films he's more than capable of creating a similar distinction that you can't change or rearrange a book because it's one particular story and comics have a lot of stories so it's okay to mix and match those elements.

The guy also claims to be such an authority on the series but has yet to exhibit ANY knowledge of the books beyond "Roland was written as white!" He refuses to share on the Favorite Quotes or Favorite Character/Book thread but you're free to. I'd be very interested to hear some of your thoughts and favorite moments...

I don't know if you're aware of this but I've already changed things. I killed Ben Linus.
--Sayid

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You don't know what reason is. You like the other hypocritical shill who commented below you just mock and insult anyone who isn't stupidly positive about this hack job.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about either, because I'm against race changing in comic films too. You are one of those people who spouts about race being unimportant to fictional characters until it comes to the very idea of changing a black character.

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So I guess that's a "no" to my invitation for you to share your favorites regarding the series?

I don't know if you're aware of this but I've already changed things. I killed Ben Linus.
--Sayid

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Looks like it to me. Well, you can't say you didn't try to extend an olive branch, MaximusGrandimus. You gave him a welcoming offer to participate in a thread where he could find some common ground with other posters. But unfortunately, he's repeatedly shown us what he's really here for.

Regardless, I appreciate the effort. 👍

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To burn down the forest?

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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Ha - possibly. But from what I've seen, it seems his goal is to be the One Bumhug to Rule Them All. Or to be an agent of the Crimson King. Not quite sure which.

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It's pathetic how much time you spend following me around this board. I post a comment there's you, moron number 2. Odin troll is number 1, so you are still behind unfortunately.
But don't worry fool, you're getting there. You just keep up being the stupid little tool that you are and you'll get there.

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I think the tone made my answer very clear. I don't tend to go out of my way to discuss anything with people like the defenders of this film who do nothing but mock and insult anyone who criticises. And before you deny that you should probably check your quote thread where despite not being on it a certain mentally deranged shill has brought me up just to insult again.

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I will say this: you are fighting an uphill battle with him...on a steep icy pane of glass while wearing oil-slicked boots.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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They didn't cast him because he's capable of playing the part, and it definitely wasn't because he looks the part. So that leaves only one option.
It's no different than changing Susannah's race, you are just another person who sees white characters as interchangeable and the any character not white race suddenly becomes extremely important.

There is no reason to be optimistic about this film.

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I think I gave a pretty well thought out and rational reason why I don't think Roland's race matters and Susanahs does in this instance. How Roland's character got to where he was when we met him is not related to his race, because in my opinion he lives in an alternate world where that isn't a factor. It is for her, because she lives in pretty much our world in America and racism is an issue, and I think it was more a socially acceptable thing in the time period she is from. I wouldn't care if they made her any other race of they could find similar ways to get her character to where she is. I also think that a straight adaptation would be more difficult and make it less appealing to a bigger audience. Get them hooked first and then open this universe up. You don't have to be optimistic, we can agree to disagree. That's fine, but I feel like no matter what point of view or information you get the presented with you keep repeating the same circular argument.

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The Bingo! All Spidey is is one circular argument, he has about 5 modes. Roland was written as white, long tall dark and looking like Eastwood. Elba is a medicore actor and built like a football player. Arcel and Goldsman are hacks who obviously didn't read the book. You're a hypocrite if you defend changing Roland's race but don't want them to change Susannahs. Those of us advocating to wait for the movie and let it speak for itself are not true fans who will accept any slop Hollywood SJWs will serve up. Did I cover all the bases Spider?

I don't know if you're aware of this but I've already changed things. I killed Ben Linus.
--Sayid

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There hasn't been a single one of the people like you to actually counter any arguments of mine yet, and I've had the totally irrelevant Shawshank/Morgan Freeman casting argument ad nauseum.

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Okay, Spidey. Talk to me here. We'll use our nice words. Let's do our best not to be condescending toward one another. Can you outline for me which of your arguments you'd like to see countered so we can have a civilized debate? Please? Thankee-sai!

Long days and pleasant nights!

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Because no one on this board has yet to counter the argument, they repeat the same things you do. Which doesn't justify the massive changes to the story, nor does the casting make any sense no matter how you anyone tries to pretend it does.
Susannah's race only comes into play in the story in the second book because of the tension that causes with the White Roland and Eddie. If they are changing Roland's race they are cr*pping all over that part anyway so her race no longer plays an issue.

You are simply drawing the line at Susannah's race because that's the usual double standard from people like you.

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Having respect for source material?! That doesn't mean sticking meticulously to the book! There are countless examples of books made into good/great films by taking real liberties with the source material to make it more appealing and watchable; Jurassic Park, Silence of the Lambs, Shawshank Redemption, any of the Potter movies, I Am Legend. Need I go on? Just because they aren't robotically adapting the source material like a bunch of unimaginative cash puppies doesn't mean they are disrespecting it. At the very least, consider the possibility that what they've done might might work. Two A list leads, a world class producer, and a simple story. I like how that sounds.

And lighten up! 😀😀😀

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Excellent points, Jake, but I fear the horse you're beating might be a dead one.

However, I have to agree with you. Shawshank Redemption is an excellent example, especially considering we're now using the same author. The movie was so much better than the story as it was written, and a lot of that had to do with the cast. I mean, I didn't know Tim Robbins all that well when I saw the movie, but he took Andy Dufresne and made him a character that you rooted for passionately. In the book I didn't feel that connection, but the movie? Sometimes actors can take a character and do amazing things with them. Another example was Alan Rickman in Sense and Sensibility. I mean, the list can go on for miles.

Right now we have no idea what Idris Elba is doing with our Roland, but we can only hope he's taking good care of him and channeling him in a way we can love. But we gotta give him a chance first.

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Also joanna keep in mind Red was written as white (well color wasn't specifically stated but "Red" implies an Irish redhead) and Morgan Freeman did a fantastic job. There was even a line of dialogue where he was asked why they called him Red and he replies "I don't know. Maybe it's cause I'm Irish" and gives a wry smile - an obvious wink to the camera regarding the race change.

I don't know if you're aware of this but I've already changed things. I killed Ben Linus.
--Sayid

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Oh my God, how could I have possibly forgotten that?! Sheesh, did I ever forget the face of my father there...

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Speaking to Deadline about the casting of Roland, Howard said: "Back then, we came close to making it with Javier Bardem at one point. I've always felt that the essence of Roland was not necessarily the carbon copy of Clint Eastwood, even though that was what they used as the model on a lot of the book covers.
"The existential Western hero, played by Clint in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, and Hang 'em High and those Sergio Leone Westerns, that was what inspired young Stephen King to begin with. But I never felt it was necessarily a look as much as an essence. So did Stephen.
"In this iteration, when we began thinking about candidates, Idris just felt like a really exciting and dynamic possibility. Idris brings this crucial combination of coiled danger, quiet charisma, undercurrents of complexity and nobility, and a kind of timeless cool. These are the elemental qualities of Roland, in my mind, and I think Idris carries it incredibly well. Then there is McConaughey. I had always thought he would be a tremendous Walter."

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Thought I would post this interview or at least this portion. Looks the King himself supports the casting :)

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Just a reminder. King fully supported the Under The Dome TV show (just try and sit through every episode of that cr*p) and Cell. Which is currently sitting at a rock bottom critic rating and it failed miserably (another film that shows what happens when you perform stupid race changes and sweeping story changes).
It's safe to say that at this point King is nothing but a yes man who'll give his support to any cr*p that any hack director throws together.

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There's a point when it's not just changes for adaption and it just becomes changes made just for the sake of it. It's not only a big changes to the lead character because of a pitiful actor choice, it's also big changes to the story by not even trying to be faithful to it. One of those things would be bad enough but to be extra stupid and make both those mistakes is a big flashing sign that this film is screwed.
Elba is not A list, he's overly hyped B list at best (can you name a single hit film where he was the lead?). And are you actually claiming Goldsman is a world class producer? The man who gave the world the Bat credit card.

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Given that Goldsman ALSO produced and wrote A Beautiful Mind, Cinderella Man and A Time to Kill those films more than make up for Batman and Robin...

What Spielberg, Scorcese etc haven't nade a few stinkers in their day?

I don't know if you're aware of this but I've already changed things. I killed Ben Linus.
--Sayid

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He also wrote:
The 5th Wave
Insurgent
Lost in Space
Batman Forever (which wasn't exactly a great film).
Producer of:
The losers
Jonah Hex
Constantine (another example of how to totally *beep* up an adaption).

I could list more awful films he's had a hand in but my point is made. He's a hack.

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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1648190/board/flat/260510108?d=260812235#260812235

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1648190/board/flat/260510108?d=260829194#260829194

He ignores what doesn't work for him .

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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Peter Jackson made Braindead and the Frighteners before he made Lord Of The Rings, films that were actually good and unique. Arcel has one sh*t film to his name.

But you just described yourself there, I'm sure you didn't intend to. You lack the self awareness to see just how much bullsh*t you spout.

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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1648190/board/flat/260510108?d=260812235#260812235

Spider198
» Thu Aug 25 2016 08:09:40
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"One poor film kinda shows someone is a hack"


Examine the filmography of the directors I mentioned in -> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1648190/board/flat/260510108?d=260829194#260829194

They would be: Peter Jackson, James Cameron and Sidney Lumet. All of these men have directed/written at least one bad film. By your rationale, they are all hacks. If you meant something different...you ought to have said something different.

However, this is the point where you will cover your own ass because of a stupidly myopic criticism you made a while back. Big surprise, huh?

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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Arcel doesn't have a single good film to his name, just lots of cr*p. All the directors you mentioned as if it discredited my point just showed you don't have an argument to counter with.

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The one poor film comment was in relation to that last awful film of his. The one that some bring up to support that nobody director's involvement with this film.

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I am going into this with a very open mind. I don't care about black Roland, starting in the middle of the tale, or any of the changes. I just want to see a good movie that will jump start this into a continuing project. Trying to adapt the books exactly is an almost impossible task, I appreciate that, and think that this mode actually embraces the spirit of the tale even more than a straight adaptation.

I'll be there opening night!

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Oh, even adaptations that are "true to the book" are never on point 100%. And I entirely agree that it would have been impossible to do this exactly as it was originally written. I love the fact that they're continuing from where the books left off, giving them room for tweaks that will (or could) make sense. An open mind is really the only type of mind that a fan could approach this with. Those whose minds aren't quite there will just have to content themselves with the books and we all move on with life!

Save me a seat. I'll buy the popcorn!

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Totally agree with you, The_Shatner_Principle, and the OP. The funny, yet annoying part is that even when an adaptation is nearly 100% faithful to the source material, fans will still find reasons to nitpick and complain (case in point: Watchmen). But given everything that I've seen about this movie so far, I'm really looking forward to it. Can't wait to see what Easter eggs they'll have for us Tower junkies. :)

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It's difficult to make a faithful adaptation but not impossible. It would just take more effort and require they spend more money on it than this pitiful excuse for a Dark Tower film, which is just the Dark Tower in name only.

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Hi, Spidey!

But, isn't it maybe just a little premature to say that the movie is a "pitiful excuse?" I mean, I understand your disappointment because you obviously dislike Idris Elba from his previous roles, but isn't it possible that the producers have seen something we just haven't been privy to yet? I mean, I know this is very hard for you, but try making the race a non-factor just for $!ts and giggles... Isn't it maybe even slightly possible that while you didn't like him in Luther or Thor, maybe he just might have some strange connection with Roland? I know that your mind is made up, and I am likewise confident I won't be able to sway you, but I'm just curious how you can be so confident about something that hasn't even produced a trailer yet.

I hope you're having a good day!

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yea i agree, idris is a great choice....this might actually be one of kings best adaptations right there with shawshank redemption, mist and green mile....seems ike they got a good director and good actors, i really doubt it will be a complete flop at least not for us king fans

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Bump.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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