MovieChat Forums > The Dark Tower (2017) Discussion > A serious query for anyone peeved about ...

A serious query for anyone peeved about Elba as Roland...


I can understand it to a certain degree, mainly after factoring in the Detta side of things. And then of course the lesser issue of the "blue bombardier eyes"...but here's how I see it:

1. Once/if we see Detta/Odetta/Susannah in a later film (hopefully we get the rest of the films they're planning), they can still keep her personality intact. The simplest approach would be her hating on Roland for traveling with a honky mafah. But I'm not in the movie-making business, so obviously I don't know for sure how they'd handle that.

2. We are living in a world of special effects, to the point where they are almost another character in our films and television series. If they REALLY wanted to keep Roland's blue eyes, there's such a thing as editing, or gasp! Colored contacts. And yes, that could work because I've seen naturally dark-skinned people with light eyes. It's not as common, but it does happen. And honestly? I think if they did do something like that, it would really help drive the point home of how... otherworldly Roland's home is.

There are also people who just don't like Idris Elba as an actor, and that's okay too. But he may just surprise everyone, and totally knock it out of the park with his portrayal of our favorite gunslinger. Or he'll crush our hopes and dreams into a fine paste. We'll know for sure come February 17th.

I'm really not trying to start any fights or anything; I'm all for debates and hearing people's opinions.

Time's the thief of memory.

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Oh, Sherlock, are you trying to get the haters back on their boxes? I was hoping they'd all up and hated themselves into a stupor at this point!

I agree with you completely, by the bye, especially with your first point. I mean, growing up in the 80's as an Amerasian was confusing. I was very confused by my identity. It was hardly a time of segregation, but a lot of races, even still today, often segregate themselves. All the little black children played apart from the white children. But what was I? I was whoever I wanted to identify with that day. The black kids would tell me I should play with them, so I was accepted as one of them. Other days I'd get invited to play with the white children, so I was accepted as one of them as well. The truth is, Detta could easily see Roland as someone chumming it up with a "honky mahfah," making him just as much a "honky mahfah" no matter what his skin color is. Feel free to disagree with me, but we've all heard horribly offensive terms for people who identify with a certain race despite the color of their skin. This isn't as much of a problem as people are making it out to be.

As for the eyes... Okay, since it's good enough for Stephen King, I'll go back to a Harry Potter reference. In the books his eyes were green, green, green. In the movies, the contacts hurt his poor little blue eyes, so his eyes became blue. And you know what? It didn't impact the story a single bit. Imagine that!

If you hate his acting, well, there's no accounting for good taste, but I can't wait to see what he's done with Roland. If I'm disappointed then, so be it, but let's give the dude a chance!

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I agree with you completely, by the bye, especially with your first point. I mean, growing up in the 80's as an Amerasian was confusing. I was very confused by my identity. It was hardly a time of segregation, but a lot of races, even still today, often segregate themselves. All the little black children played apart from the white children. But what was I? I was whoever I wanted to identify with that day. The black kids would tell me I should play with them, so I was accepted as one of them. Other days I'd get invited to play with the white children, so I was accepted as one of them as well. The truth is, Detta could easily see Roland as someone chumming it up with a "honky mahfah," making him just as much a "honky mahfah" no matter what his skin color is. Feel free to disagree with me, but we've all heard horribly offensive terms for people who identify with a certain race despite the color of their skin. This isn't as much of a problem as people are making it out to be.
As one who has witnessed and has had similar experiences myself as a fellow person of color, I totally agree with all of this.


As for the eyes... Okay, since it's good enough for Stephen King, I'll go back to a Harry Potter reference. In the books his eyes were green, green, green. In the movies, the contacts hurt his poor little blue eyes, so his eyes became blue. And you know what? It didn't impact the story a single bit. Imagine that!
True, true. Admittedly though, a small part of me would love to see Idris sporting those bombardier blue eyes, for no other reason than it would put a huge grin on my face, much the same way hearing the high speech and the "Gunslinger's Creed" will. But if he doesn't have blue eyes, it's not a dealbreaker for me.


If you hate his acting, well, there's no accounting for good taste, but I can't wait to see what he's done with Roland. If I'm disappointed then, so be it, but let's give the dude a chance!
Exactly.

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Oh, don't get me wrong! Old tall, dark and ugly's blue eyes would definitely be a pretty sweet addition, but I consider it a nuance that I can take or leave. They're like Eddie's hazel eyes. But these are the types of things newcomers to the series wouldn't know or care about. If it's the right story despite the differences, I can still be happy with it.

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I suppose my original post was a little vague in terms of where I stand on the casting, so allow me to solidify my position:

I am perfectly fine with Idris Elba playing Roland. They don't have to change anything about him to make me okay with his playing the role. I think he will absolutely kill it and nail Roland's stoicism and general badassery. And dare I say it? I'm actually excited to see what he will bring to the character.

And I actually think casting him as Roland will add something to Detta's racism on-screen. But that's a discussion for a later time.

I was merely trying to point out that the situation isn't nearly as dire as some people are making it out to be.

Time's the thief of memory.

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Oh, I heard you loud and clear, Inspector. Again, I agree with you. When I first heard Idris Elba, my knee-jerk reaction was, "MY ROLAND!" But then I took a few minutes to reflect on Idris Elba as an actor as opposed to just a black dude, and it occurred to me that he could totally pull this off. This isn't saying he definitely will, but he certainly has the acting chops to get this right! I'm glad to hear that while the nay-sayers are going to continue thumping their chests until release (and I'm sure thereafter), there are those of us with open minds.

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I feel the same way - it would be nice to see from a die-hard fan's standpoint, but it's not mandatory for the characters IMO. And you're right, people that are completely new to the tale won't know or care either way. As long as the story is told in an entertaining way that embodies the spirit of the source material, preferably with a healthy number of Easter eggs for the fans, I'm pretty sure I'll be satisfied with it.

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I, for one, thank you for such a well thought out and reasonable post. I agree 100%. Some of us here have been saying more or less the same things for a while now, resulting in varying degrees of reasonable debate. Since we've all had a chance to sit with the casting news for a while, seen production photos, seen the viral marketing, and have heard/read the movie-related news (and some have even read a version of the script), I'm also interested in where people currently stand. Has your opinion changed about the movie or stayed the same? Do you hate it, love it, or feel "meh" about it so far? Inquiring minds want to know. :)

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If it were a black man with blue eyes, one could argue that Detta/Odetta is so filled with hate against the white race, that she can't even see the color of his skin. She only see's the blue eyes, associates them with the white man that has caused her hate. Other than artist's perceptions, does it actually describe him as white anywhere in the books? "blue eyes" and "honky" are the only things I can remember off the top of my head, but the eyes of a black man can be blue and Detta's hate filled rants could be taken as nothing more than that. Perhaps Roland HAS been black all along?

"Mother Father, Chinese Dentist!"

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It repeatedly described how he looked in detail, and was repeatedly described as white.
You've not actually read the book have you?

Also why in the hell would she call Roland honky if he wasn't white? That might be the stupidest thing I've ever read. The fact that not only are you making excuses for the casting you are now trying to pretend the character isn't supposed to be white is ridiculous.

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Have you not read the book, Spider? We keep asking you what your favorite parts are, but all you ever harp on is that one chapter in DoT3 in which Detta calls Roland a Honk-Mafa.

Top five scenes, name 'em or get the *beep* out.

The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.

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Oh look my shadow is writing his own posts again, still idiotic posts but at least you are trying.

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But what about Odin's question? Several people have tried to engage you in source material-related conversations, but you keep refusing. Assuming you're as big a fan of the books as you present yourself to be, I'd think you'd at least be able to find some common ground with other posters in that, if nothing else. I'm curious to know what some of your favorite parts of the series are. So how about it?

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You realise that on that thread, the thread where apparently I'm expected to post. Is that fool Wesker who managed to bring me up yet again when I wasn't even commenting.
Now guess why I'm not wasting my time talking to people like that.

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You realise that on that thread, the thread where apparently I'm expected to post. Is that fool Wesker who managed to bring me up yet again when I wasn't even commenting.
Now guess why I'm not wasting my time talking to people like that.
Nobody said you had to talk to Captain_Wesker; there are plenty of other people in those threads to talk to. All they were trying to do was welcome you into general Dark Tower discussions since the vast majority of us here are big fans of the books, just as you claim to be. That way, regardless of anyone's views on the upcoming movie, all of us could at least find a common ground and enjoy reveling in our collective fandom. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm sure if you can manage to stay civil, other people can manage to do the same.

So again, with that in mind, how about it?

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errr. I gotta say, it looks like you and maybe one other poster are genuinely trying to encourage spider to contribute on a 'fan' level. I don't really understand why though. As long as i've been following this board, i've only ever seen massive attacks and trolling on he/she's (i'll use he from now on based on a somewhat unanimous assumption that spider is a 'he') opinion that Elba is totally wrong for the role. His opinion isn't popular obviously, and he refuses to change it. I think he still has valid points in some threads and sure, he refuses to change his opinion but what's wrong with that? Even other posters that have come around a bit or accepted TDT film come as it may, still get crucified that they once held an opinion as strong as spiders. And these reply posters are still happy to admit that they once were also totally against the casting once upon a time before they changed their mind. (yet with not even a trailer or teaser).

What this actually looks like to me is an attempt to trap spider into showing positivity on some level just to perpetuate an attack that he is a hypocrite of some sort. This reminds me of school yard bullying where the popular clique buddy up with the socially awkward kid for one day just to use it against them the next day. Mind you, i don't see spider as that kid - i see the TDT board clique as such. My own posts on casting have been unfavourable by some, and i don't have a problem with people then voicing their discontent with my opinions. However there is a poster or 2 here that use their intelligence, advanced vernacular or otherwise wordsmith type talents to not only discredit a post but to destroy their entire credibility as a whole (or as a person even) that has NOTHING to do with valid debate about the movie. This makes for an incredibly intimidating board if you are not singing TDT film praises.

I for one acknowledge that Idris has shown talent in The Wire and Luther. I also think Idris is incredibly charismatic and likeable in interviews. But there is a difference between an actors performance in TV VS Film. Idris nails stoic and badass in spades in TV, but i am yet to see range... Especially in film. Does this make me apprehensive about Roland? Yes it does. Do i think Idris can nail this role? No, but i'm hoping to be surprised. Does this make me 'disinterested' in Idris portraying Roland? No, If anything i'm more interested to see why production thought he was the best actor for the role. Do i think spider is digging his heels in a bit irrationally? yes. Do i think the TDT board clique are being patronising and condescending to him? Absolutely. Am i defending him? Hell no, i believe he would go Mordred on me if he thought i was.

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LOL - yeah, I understand what you’re saying, tina. Concerning the "Spider outreach," I can’t really make assumptions about anyone else’s motives here, but as for me, against my better judgment, I figured I’d switch gears for a minute and take a slightly different approach to see where it goes. Maybe it’s just me being overly idealistic, but it’s hard for me to believe that someone can be this ridiculously negative all the time. As such, I thought that maybe, just maybe, we might be able to find some common ground if he was willing to participate in discussions that are a bit less polarizing. Now whether he chooses to participate or not is up to him. But even if nothing comes of it, at least I and the people who started those fun threads can say we tried to extend an olive branch.

As for the attacks and trolling on his posts, I get that it might seem to come out of nowhere or seem somewhat excessive to those who have started posting here fairly recently. Interestingly enough, the shift to a more positive-leaning view of the upcoming movie on this board was pretty recent, maybe within the last few months or so. But before that, the board was basically bombarded with casting hate threads from various posters. The few of us - myself included - that do have more positive or even a neutral “wait and see” outlook were routinely antagonized, ridiculed, had their fandom questioned, etc. (Actually, those are still the reactions I’m getting on other Dark Tower-related groups elsewhere online, so contrary to what you might think, those negative opinions aren't that unpopular.) From what I’ve seen since I’ve been posting here, Spider, who has been on this board for years, has been the most prolific in this respect. As such, the harshness of the responses toward him you’ve been seeing are the direct result people being fed up by his relentlessly antagonizing behavior. Does that help the board's current atmosphere or excuse derailing threads? Am I a fan of going after people who might’ve previously exhibited negative behavior that currently seem to have turned over a new leaf? No, not really, but maybe what I’ve said above at least helps explain where the animosity comes from and why this keeps happening.

So, long story short: It’s not necessarily the anti-Elba opinions or the opinions of those in favor of an adaptation much closer to the source material that are the problem. Again, I can’t speak for anyone else, but as far as I’m concerned, people are perfectly welcome to disagree. On the opposite side of that coin, others are just as welcome to question their reasons for disagreeing. Dark Tower fans aren’t a monolith and that's okay - besides, how boring would that be if we all agreed on everything all the time? But simply put, there are ways to disagree without being disagreeable, if that makes sense. It’s some people’s behavior and the way they express those opinions, which about 90% of the time in my experience has been unnecessarily defensive at best and downright abusive at worst. Personally, I try my best to be patient and civil when talking to others on the board, even if they haven’t necessarily been all that civil toward me. However, I find it hard to suffer BS and am compelled to call it out sometimes. But getting back to the original point, overall, I’d really like the majority of us here to be able to have fun, civil discussions about a story we all love. Yes, probably impossible, I know, but a girl can dream. :)

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Thanks for that reply sugr, i appreciate how you always take the time to talk about things objectively and politely. You've always made a point to make me and other new-comers feel welcome on this board so i thought you were the safest bet to question the recent 'lets make friends with spider' development. Actually when i first starting posting here, spider wasn't around and some posters (maybe tongue in cheek) expressed that they wouldn't mind him coming back with his pessimism due to the hit and run trolls. He's a pessimist for sure, but i don't think a troll. And i think some other regulars think the same way what with the genuine attempts to engage him in DT conversation.

I honestly don't mind spider and his pessimism (and as you said, this would be quite a boring board if we all felt the same way). I actually kind of like spider in a 'Karl Pilkington' way (no offense spider, i'm a fan lol). We all have that one friend that can be counted on to complain on a lovely sunny day (it's too hot), they just won the lottery (i wanted to win more), just got a promotion (i don't want more responsibility) etc. We make allowances and their behaviour is acceptable "that's just John he's always like that" while laughing. In saying that, i'm not suggesting other posters do that, i just personally find his dedication to pessimism to be more amusing than genuinely irritating. I also agree with the same 2 or 3 points he makes but gave up on it as futile a while back. And this isn't "IRL", so no friends here. If spider is going to only contribute negativity to the board (and has done so for as long as you say), i totally understand the backlash he gets. But he's a big boy, i'm sure he can take it and as far as i've seen he gives back as good as he gets.

I guess the issue i took with the friendly approach was that it appeared tactical by some. I had also recently engaged in conversation with another poster that was a friendly and interesting exchange of ideas and opinions about TDT. Well it was until another poster stepped in to expose this person as once vehemently hating on TDT (with their little minions intact to keep it rolling), with the implication that their new views were hypocritical to their old views thus undermining the posters relevancy. Pleasant posting over to rehash an old fight *sigh*. It makes me wonder if spider would actually get a fair 'hearing' without being attacked for it.

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Thanks for that reply sugr, i appreciate how you always take the time to talk about things objectively and politely. You've always made a point to make me and other new-comers feel welcome on this board so i thought you were the safest bet to question the recent 'lets make friends with spider' development. Actually when i first starting posting here, spider wasn't around and some posters (maybe tongue in cheek) expressed that they wouldn't mind him coming back with his pessimism due to the hit and run trolls. He's a pessimist for sure, but i don't think a troll. And i think some other regulars think the same way what with the genuine attempts to engage him in DT conversation.
Not a problem! :) Given that civility on the internet - and especially on message boards - can be hard to find at times, I’ve always appreciated your civility and your thoughtful, reasonable, and nuanced responses. In short, the feeling’s mutual. 

Ha - and yes, I remember some people were a little bored when Spider disappeared for a bit some months back. I guess some find him entertaining. *shrug* I don’t really think he’s a troll necessarily, but he’s as dogged and obsessed in his pessimism as Roland was in his search for the Tower lol.

I honestly don't mind spider and his pessimism (and as you said, this would be quite a boring board if we all felt the same way). I actually kind of like spider in a 'Karl Pilkington' way (no offense spider, i'm a fan lol). We all have that one friend that can be counted on to complain on a lovely sunny day (it's too hot), they just won the lottery (i wanted to win more), just got a promotion (i don't want more responsibility) etc. We make allowances and their behaviour is acceptable "that's just John he's always like that" while laughing. In saying that, i'm not suggesting other posters do that, i just personally find his dedication to pessimism to be more amusing than genuinely irritating. I also agree with the same 2 or 3 points he makes but gave up on it as futile a while back. And this isn't "IRL", so no friends here. If spider is going to only contribute negativity to the board (and has done so for as long as you say), i totally understand the backlash he gets. But he's a big boy, i'm sure he can take it and as far as i've seen he gives back as good as he gets.
To be honest, I don’t care if he disagrees with my opinion, just as I’m sure he doesn’t care that I disagree with his. But as one who’s often been on the receiving end of his antics, I do tend to take issue with the way he disagrees most of the time. Being pessimistic is one thing, but the unwillingness to be civil, the lack of respect for valid points of view that differ from his, and the name calling that come along with that pessimism are quite another. On top of that, there’s also the fact that he and a few others here have been harping on the same two issues (Roland’s race and the alleged destruction of the Roland-Detta-Eddie conflict) with a vengeance ever since Idris Elba was rumored to be the frontrunner for the lead role...so for almost a year. That kind of thing gets annoying, creates hostility, and sucks the fun out of discussions, when all most of us here want is to have interesting exchanges about a great story we love.

But as far as Spider being able to take the backlash he gets, it seems that isn’t necessarily the case as of late. The usual comments I see directed at him aren’t any more abrasive than what he typically posts himself, but he’s started announcing that he’s reporting people who’ve gone toe-to-toe with him. And even though he hasn’t announced it to me as he has with others, I suspect he’s reported me recently too. (A few weeks back, not too long after getting into it with him yet again, I suddenly started getting a warning message regarding TOS rules and such whenever I replied for a while, which I’ve never seen before in all my 10+ years on IMDb.) So yeah, there’s that.


I guess the issue i took with the friendly approach was that it appeared tactical by some. I had also recently engaged in conversation with another poster that was a friendly and interesting exchange of ideas and opinions about TDT. Well it was until another poster stepped in to expose this person as once vehemently hating on TDT (with their little minions intact to keep it rolling), with the implication that their new views were hypocritical to their old views thus undermining the posters relevancy. Pleasant posting over to rehash an old fight *sigh*. It makes me wonder if spider would actually get a fair 'hearing' without being attacked for it.
Yeah, I can see how it might seem that way. The thing is, we’ve been stuck on the Roland’s race/Roland-Detta-Eddie conflict train with him for waaaaaaay too long IMO, and much like Blaine, it is a pain. So as for me, I decided to try switching up the approach a bit mainly because I’d really like to see him get “unstuck” so we can all discuss much more interesting topics that haven’t already been beaten into the ground.

As for people rehashing old fights, I’m not a really a fan of that, but if you’re talking about the recently resurfaced poster I think you are, I definitely understand where that harshness comes from. (He interacted with people a lot like Spider does). But as for whether people would give Spider a fair shake if he did decide to participate in one of the more neutral threads, I think some of us would - as long as he’s civil, at least. Others might not for obvious reasons, but we’ll never know either way since he’s repeatedly declined.

But oh well. Such is life.

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Do i think spider is digging his heels in a bit irrationally? yes.


Understatement of the year. Dude gives a whole new shine to the word "paranoia".

Do i think the TDT board clique are being patronising and condescending to him? Absolutely.


Oh come off it with the implied (false) equivalency. There are plenty of people that disagree on aspects of this adaptation-sequel who we have amicable relations with. You know what the difference between them and he is? They don't whip up a conspiracy theory for every public statement and/or insult people by calling them shill, PC, hypocrite, fool, moron, fake fan, etc.

You have to remember that he wanted people associated with this production to fail in their careers and/or to suffer from an accident to keep them from influencing the film. That cannot be defended by any sane and mature person.

So, because he is not a infant, not a child, and not a teenager, he has no excuse to be behaving as if he were.

---
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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You have to remember that he wanted people associated with this production to fail in their careers and/or to suffer from an accident to keep them from influencing the film.


I'm loath to reply to you directly but you keep bringing this up. Do you honestly think he was serious?

People talk like this all the time without meaning the actual content of their words.

examples i've heard:

I hope my ex gets herpes from that b*tch

That idiot driver deserves to get t-boned after that manoeuvre

That a**hole took credit for my work, i hope he gets fired.

Or how about song lyrics? I'm a big fan of Morrissey:

I was only joking when I said I’d like to smash every tooth in your head. Oh sweetness, sweetness I was only joking when I said by rights you should be bludgeoned in your bed

"girlfriend in a coma" is even worse.

You're a gamer right? Surely you've heard much worse than any of this and not taken it seriously?

I don't condone or defend this type of talk on this board, but i do think this is a silly argument and doesn't hold any weight realistically. We both know you're better than that.

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I'm loath to reply to you directly but you keep bringing this up. Do you honestly think he was serious?


I am ecstatic that you deigned yourself to reply to the rabble .

Anyhow, to be blunt: yes.

People talk like this all the time without meaning the actual content of their words.


They sure do, but that is usually a comment made in the heat of the moment during a live interaction that people admit was wrong or eventually regret. Spider, to his credit, partly owned up to wanting their careers to fail (still half-assed, because he was firm on certain individuals being punished, but at least he showed a mayfly-like flash of humanity). However, he won't utter a whisper about the second statement/thread that was outright vaporized by an administrator. No "I did not really mean that" or "I let my temper get the better of me". Nuthin'. He does pride himself on consistency, so this should not be viewed as a worrying deviation from character.

Again, adults do not get this petty over workers involved in fictional-freaking-entertainment.

You're a gamer right? Surely you've heard much worse than any of this and not taken it seriously?


I don't game online much anymore. However, drawing upon children/teenagers plus adults still burdened with the minds of children/teenagers really does not help your case.

You'd think the Stephen King fanbase - being one centered around works concerning mature themes - would be free of people like this...but it seems the message behind his work of Misery ended up hitting a little too close to home.

I don't condone or defend this type of talk on this board, but i do think this is a silly argument and doesn't hold any weight realistically. We both know you're better than that.


I will continue to point out deplorable behavior whenever it occurs . Some of us still believe in a message board where one can have a difference in opinion over an actor's abilities, a piece of music, a filming location, etc, and not be flagrantly mean-spirited/elitist about it.

---
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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Because the childish insults and petty remarks is all any defenders of this do on this board, the amount of threads I've been brought up on even when I didn't post is just pathetic. I don't try and have a normal conversation with people who have that attitude.

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My attempts to get you to share some of your favorite Dark Tower moments have been genuine, Spider. If I've made "childish" insults or responded in a snide manner it's only because your harping on one or two points makes you an easy target in that regard.

Not that you've been the paragon of being tolerant to other posters ideas and points of view.

All of that notwithstanding, the fact that you constantly refer to 2 things - Roland's physical description and Detta's racist chiding of Roland - is pretty suspect. You constantly accuse people from fellow posters to those associated with the production of not having read the books, yet you show no knowledge of the books yourself.

And, when others on this board do reach out to you and ask you to contribute in a positive way, without snark or irony, YOU IGNORE THEIR POSTS and keep posting your negative bile.

So I'm sorry for inviting you to post on a positive post I created - sorry I brought you up on posts you didn't even post on. I'm sorry I have a hard time believing you're a true fan of the series when you really don't show much knowledge of the series beyond Roland's description. Cry pardon, may it do ya?

I don't know if you're aware of this but I've already changed things. I killed Ben Linus.
--Sayid

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Because the childish insults and petty remarks is all any defenders of this do on this board, the amount of threads I've been brought up on even when I didn't post is just pathetic. I don't try and have a normal conversation with people who have that attitude.
Well, you do realize this animosity didn't come out of nowhere, don't you? As MaximusGrandimus said, you haven't exactly been the most civil or open-minded person toward other people here.

But all that aside, the offer is there. Whether you choose to participate is up to you.

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[deleted]

1. Not remotely the same thing, it essentially removes the level of hatred she outright has for Roland simply because he's white. (Oh and they will never be making more when this tanks).

2. Yeah great Elba can have blue eyes just as convincing as Jessica Alba's in Fantastic Four, because that wasn't mocked much at all.

Elba playing a slight variation of the part he always plays is an insult to the character. Poor actor who is badly miscast.

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And quit saying that Elba is a bad actor. Because even if you believe that (and that's a big if coming from you. I bet you secretly think he's good and you just want to spout your talking points) nobody agrees with you.

Also, look up hyperbole in the dictionary before you say, "Meh, eh, somebody *does* agree with me that he's a bad actor."

The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.

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I truly disagree with you spider. I am a little worried at how much hate is within your heart on this matter. No we're not hypocritical, no we're not SJW's, no we're not shills and no we're not mindless. You need to get over the fact others might have a different opinion, we accept yours even if you don't agree with it.

He is a great actor. Maybe not the best ever but he has proven his ability many times and I for one am excited to see his interpretation of a character I like. I don't feel he or the crew should be harmed in anyway like you do (still waiting to hear your side of the story on that).

If you're that obsessed with his race I think you need to consider the fact that you are clearly either trolling, a racist or too obsessed with one scene from one book out of 8 that has no real impact on its successor or the character.

"he was described as white a few times!" so? He's not in this film, get over it. Seriously, it's become an issue.

"his interaction with a character is based on race" no it's not. It's based on hate. Pure hate, which what I detect from you a lot and it's sad and I genuinely feel sorry for you at times. It's the hate that would need to get across, not the skin colour for their interactions. It's the hate that needs to be interpreted. Besides, she's not in this film so why does it even matter?

Grow up. You're just being childish and ruining interesting threads on this board.

Rant over.

For the OP - sorry to detract from the thread, it's an interesting post. In response to what you posted:

1. I agree, it's the hate that she has for Roland that needs to get across. That's all that Detta was and all that she represented, she was the personification of hate, so changing a few words to suit the film wouldn't impact the story that much, especially for a small amount of screen time it would be given.

2. I agree with Joannatn and yourself. Harry Potter had green eyes and they couldn't be put across in film. It didn't impact the story at all so yes, it might suck we don't see those blue bombardier eyes but it's not too important to the story. Like you said, they can always use cgi if they're desperate.

Sorry again to detract from the original point but seeing a troll/racist/head up their own... Well you get the idea, can grate just a little too much sometimes.

And for spider, if you do have that much hate and need to vent, please feel free to PM me if you need to talk. As much as I, and others, may get fed up with your issues on this film, I don't believe you're a bad person but I do worry for someone who clearly has an issue with race and hate this much. The offer is there and I would keep it confidential. The ball is in your court if you need to talk.

Long days and pleasant nights.

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It's factually correct to see that Elba, who is black is wrong to play Roland who should be white. The fact that you and a few others continue to make excuses for it is hypocritical. When you would be the first to complain if they changed Susannah.

He is a poor one note actor who the media have decided to hype and sheep have decide me to believe.

I expect films to at least attempt to adapt the character as they are written, picking a black actor for Roland. The classic Eastwood western type is idiotic.

1. Hatred she has for Roland because he is white, you can go on and on all you want but that's the facts of how that interaction plays out.

2. If you change every physical aspect of a character you may as well not bother keeping the name. They may have changed Harry's eye colour but every other aspect they kept. Roland will be the wrong race and missing a striking feature in the blue eyes in this, or have dodgy contacts or CGI to make an unconvincing change.

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"He is a poor one note actor"
Find me *ANYONE* else who shares this opinion. Otherwise you're just making *beep* up.

And again, you're *only* argument is the scene in DOT3. Name ANY other scene where his being white is important.

The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.

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Reading comprehension my little shadow, I said it's factually correct to say he doesn't suit the part. Because he doesn't. The same way casting Kathy Bates as Odetta would be a bad casting.

I've sat through enough of his lazy performances to know he is not close to good enough to play Roland.
How about every single description of Roland in the book says Roland is white, and the various references to his family lineage. Maybe read the books for yourself and you'll see all those things.

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Cat,
It is important throughout the whole story. When you read a story, the characters and scenes are painted into your mind. As you read deeper into the story, you learn more of the characters looks and personality. So, as you read this long saga, you have a mental picture of what the place looks like and, also, you have a very personal picture of what the characters look like. If I am not mistaken, the overwhelming mental picture of Roland was: Clint Eastwood from his western days. Now, I am not the only one who has Roland, forever remembered as looking like Mr. Eastwood. That is the big problem, King's biggest fans have with this erroneous choice of who is playing Roland. It is going to be hard for us to accept this fact and go dump money at the local theatre.

No hate, just disappointment.

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One word: reincarnation.

Two words: cosmic reset.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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Those two ideas, reincarnation and cosmic reset, would be great for a sequel. Not for the story we all read.

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This is a sequel.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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That's a pitiful excuse for a hack job of an adaption.

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What is your justified excuse for wishing bodily harm on people that do not deserve it?

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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I dont care for Idris at all after that stupid cop show he did. I havent seen him do anything outside of that character in all his roles

{oo)==V==(oo} -Christine

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Really wanna share my view on this subject, but it seems counter argument is pointless in these parts. You know what I find odd? They change Roland to a black man and it is defended vigorously! Scarlet Johansen is playing the lead in Ghost in the Shell and folks are up in arms over a white girl playing the role of an Asian character. Double standards?

Honestly, I love Idris and think he's a fine actor, but as Roland? It doesn't bother me all that much tho, I just can't see it as anything other than a stunt. I think Idris would have been the BEST choice for the next Bond tho. There is a character where skin color maters not. I just think changing Roland's skin color changes a lot of the character interactions. So many other things have to then be tweeked, or so it seems to me.

I'm rereading the books currently, just started. Keeping all this in mind as I go. Again, I just feel there are a lot of double standards when it comes to making entertainment PC. Such is life. It really bothers me very little. I will still love seeing this version of the Gunslinger regardless of the changes. The idea of this all being a different version of events is growing on me.

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Maybe it IS that I'd rather see Idris play Bond over Roland, now that I think about it... and I don't even care about 007 movies (haven't watched w/ much attention since the 90's; I liked Brosnan! But I was a kid...).

Maybe I also just really liked the interaction between Roland and Detta. Been a while since I reread it, so maybe it's just not fresh in mind and I'm stuck atm. Maybe it's the years of art, hoping they'd make the movie w/ an Eastwood impersonator, or that I have just seen TG, TB, & TU too many times imagining it was Mid World instead of a Spaghetti Western. It isn't a hang up or anything I can't get past. I also think the set pics don't fit what I always imagined. Just gotta get used to someone elses view of the story.

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[deleted]

Umm, gogo? I understand that our opinions on the matter differ, but how can the black community be angry about white-washing a character that hasn't yet been cast?

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[deleted]

According to my logic it is perfectly acceptable to make Detta white? All I said is that if you change one thing then other things must be tweeked. Making Detta white would be tweeking things,but I don't know if I find that change 'acceptable', per se. I won't know if it's an acceptable change till I see the final product. Perhaps, if done well, making Detta white is a way to balance the issue from the initial change, but was it really necessary in the first place? Idris isn't an amazing actor, but he is good enough, but I doubt he was the absolute best actor to audition for Roland. Surely others would have been just as good, maybe even better? We'll never know.

My fear is that it just won't work and we won't get the sequels we want. If the changes make for a lackluster movie and another is never made then the casting choices and other unnecesary changes sunk this movie before it even had a chance. If that happens, choosing Idris was a bad idea.

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[deleted]

Do you know what "query" means? I don't see a question mark anywhere.

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Bump.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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