There may racist jerks circling about but they are usually easy to spot.
I am deeply disappointed in what has happened with this series because a dynamic I very much wanted to see on-screen (and displayed on a broad spectrum to many) was the Susannah/Detta dynamic.
leave the material alone
In terms of literature and film this was a rare thing to see. A black woman with a powerful hatred of people based solely on the color of their skin.
I think that seeing this dynamic played out would have been a
million times more effective to shine a light on the silliness of racism then casting a black man as Roland. It is so frustrating to hear people completely miss the boat in regards to what this shows.
"Oh but you just make Detta white and she can hate him just the same".
Completely missing the point that displays of white on black racism is a
dime a dozen in today's society. Most blacks/minorities even
expect it. I had a poor gentlemen tell me the other day that
racism has always existed and always will exist. Both statements false...but he believed it. As do many others.
So what are you accomplishing by showing something
everyone already expects to see?
Nothing. Congratulations.
leave the material alone
Another batch of the clueless think that having a black Roland is a "huge step forward". A lead! And he's black! Like me! Yes..and the
President is black. I'm pretty sure that's a
lead role...and yet...the world...
still pretty crappy.
The
lesson that should be learned from this is that
"color" or
"who is in charge" of our system is
meaningless...much like
racism.
Because the problems in our society stem far...far beyond that. Racism, like
many of our societies ills...is a by-products of a much
larger problem.
This is why the Susannah/Detta/Roland/Eddie dynamic is more compelling now than ever. It helps
drill this point home.
"Roland doesn't care about race. Race doesn't really define him..." People utter these words as if they made some powerful closing argument. Then stand before the Jury like they just invented the circle.
**I shake my head in bafflement**
Yeah...you nitwit..it doesn't. To him it means
nothing. To
Detta...it means
everything.
Just like it unfortunately means everything to
millions of blacks who think that this is the most important problem in the world.leave the material alone
Roland is
beyond such non-sense. He actually has
important things to worry about.
This is something I feel is important from someone with a
pale face to project.
Roland doesn't care about Susan's color....he cares about her character.
Roland doesn't care about Susan's gender...he cares about her character.
Roland doesn't care about Susan's handicap...he cares about her character.
Poor, misguided fools.
In a time where the
white man is
vilified for everything imaginable how could such a dynamic between two people
not be more important.
I wanted millions of blacks to see a black woman go from petty hatred base on skin color to
shedding such non-sense so that she could address the
bigger problem. To drop the
shackles from her mind and embrace a powerful destiny. To be
rewarded with love for herself and from others by doing so. And finally, for seeing that the
white man...is not the enemy. That color...is not the enemy. That the
true enemy lies within ourselves.
leave the material alone
It is without a doubt the most
important message that can be shown to those who still hold on to such mental handicaps with a death-like grip.
The true problems of the world lie far beyond racism. If you do not open your eyes and see them it may be too late for us all.
Some think they are a
combating racism by rallying behind Idris Elba. The
truth is that they are doing themselves and everyone else a disservice.
The stories in their
original form do more to thwart racism than Akiva and Nikolaj ever could. Because despite what they think...they are bringing nothing new to the table. Something a piece of fiction over thirty years old managed to accomplish.
Score one for the purists as they contemplate that sh*t on the *beep* tree of woe.
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Pericles3614
9 years ago
I still disagree with you on the subject, but this is a strong post.
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meleractor
9 years ago
👍
I suppose it's all moot now anyway. The train has left the building.
Missed opportunity, but alas, there are other world's than these.
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janedoe25
9 years ago
When I heard the Idris Elba was cast, I figured it meant that they would have to change Detta's and Roland's interaction. Because the race stuff wouldn't make much sense if they're both black.
I'm okay with such a change. I always saw a lot (most) of Detta's dislike of Roland being about her fear and confusion of the ordeal she's going through, being pulled into a strange world by men she doesn't know. Detta imagines several mistreatments at the hands of Roland and Eddie because those things make more sense to her than dealing with the reality of her newfound situation. IMO, trauma and stress, not race, are at the heart of Detta's behavior (especially if you factor in that the emergence of Detta is largely linked to trauma and stress in Odetta's life).
So, yeah, make Roland black, get rid of the racial component, and make it all about the trauma works for me. Especially since so much of Detta sounds, as Eddie points out, like a racist caricature/stereotype, and I'm not convinced it could translate well to screen.
And after reading this...
I wanted millions of blacks to see a black woman go from petty hatred base on skin color to shedding such non-sense so that she could address the bigger problem. To drop the shackles from her mind and embrace a powerful destiny. To be rewarded with love for herself and from others by doing so. And finally, for seeing that the white man...is not the enemy. That color...is not the enemy. That the true enemy lies within ourselves.
Holy yikes! I feel like I need to shower reading it, it's so fricking gross.
Like "millions of blacks" need PSA from white folks on racism.
The idea that a person could read the book, thinking this...
That people might sit in a movie theater, thinking this...
Yikes.
I was happy with the casting of Elba before, but now I am THRILLED with it. And I really really hope it does mean they change the race angle between Roland and Detta, so no one is at all able to read that junk you posted into it.
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Captain_Wesker
9 years ago
Holy yikes! I feel like I need to shower reading it, it's so fricking gross.
meleractor is a high-functioning troll that goes for "quality" over quantity (at least so far as the "The Dark Tower" board goes).
I pointed out how he/she was ignorant of the sociopolitical background of Mid-World (particularly the barony Roland hails from) and how classism was
the issue instead of racism (indeed, there is no proof that Roland would have been held back from becoming a gunslinger had he sported a different melanin content much less lynched if he looked at a woman with lighter features). The response I received back from them was a transparent parody of what a social justice warrior might say.
As an aside, it is funny how many people are aching to see a black woman be unrepentantly and viciously racist on the silver screen.
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
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Captain_Wesker
8 years ago
I am bumping this thread because it features some classic examples of the ugliness surrounding the "PC Brigade".
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
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InkedInBlood
8 years ago
Holy yikes! I feel like I need to shower reading it, it's so fricking gross.
I know, right? White people
are the enemy, and they better not forget it!
I hope that piece of sh!t you replied to loses his job and his kids starve. What an evil privileged white scumbag.
I don't like the way blood money spends.
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ailiaq
8 years ago
Holy yikes! I feel like I need to shower reading it, it's so fricking gross.
Like "millions of blacks" need PSA from white folks on racism.
The idea that a person could read the book, thinking this...
That people might sit in a movie theater, thinking this...
Yikes.
I was happy with the casting of Elba before, but now I am THRILLED with it. And I really really hope it does mean they change the race angle between Roland and Detta, so no one is at all able to read that junk you posted into it.
You have no idea how much I agree with this! I AM a person of color and thought the same thing. Yes, PLEASE tell me that racism is a "shackle" in MY mind. Okie dokey.
At any rate, Detta's insanity and white-hot hatred made her an interesting nemesis for Roland and Eddie. Her hatred was understandable - from the perspective of being victimized. King did an excellent job, as usual, at creating nuances that allowed the reader to both hate Detta and still retain the smallest kernel of understanding and even sympathy.
I'm excited to see Idris become The Gunslinger.
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Captain_Wesker
8 years ago
.
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
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ruink
8 years ago
Garbage response. Garbage post.
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Captain_Wesker
8 years ago
Gotta love how the racist sympathizers keep "outing" themselves.
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
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sugrnspyce4
9 years ago
I am deeply disappointed in what has happened with this series because a dynamic I very much wanted to see on-screen (and displayed on a broad spectrum to many) was the Susannah/Detta dynamic.
...
In terms of literature and film this was a rare thing to see. A black woman with a powerful hatred of people based solely on the color of their skin.
I think that seeing this dynamic played out would have been a million times more effective to shine a light on the silliness of racism then casting a black man as Roland. It is so frustrating to hear people completely miss the boat in regards to what this shows.
I agree that it is rare to see this kind of dynamic in literature and on film. However, if the filmmakers go with the simplest solution to this dilemma, O/Detta/Susannah can remain the way she is without having to change much. That being the case, even with Elba being cast as Roland, everything you've described here concerning black-on-white hatred can still play out with Eddie. It could be said that O/Detta/Susannah's relationship with Eddie ends up being even more profound compared to her relationship with Roland in that she not only progresses from her initial violent hatred to mutual respect, but she falls in love with Eddie. As for how the dynamic would change, Detta's hatred in this scenario would be two-pronged instead: her hatred of white people - especially white men - and her hatred of black people who "betray their own." Both messages, IMO, would be important for people to see, regardless of their race.
Roland is beyond such non-sense. He actually has important things to worry about.
This is something I feel is important from someone with a pale face to project.
Roland doesn't care about Susan's color....he cares about her character.
Roland doesn't care about Susan's gender...he cares about her character.
Roland doesn't care about Susan's handicap...he cares about her character.
Poor, misguided fools.
In a time where the white man is vilified for everything imaginable how could such a dynamic between two people not be more important.
I wanted millions of blacks to see a black woman go from petty hatred base on skin color to shedding such non-sense so that she could address the bigger problem. To drop the shackles from her mind and embrace a powerful destiny. To be rewarded with love for herself and from others by doing so. And finally, for seeing that the white man...is not the enemy. That color...is not the enemy. That the true enemy lies within ourselves.
The alleged vilification of white men for "everything imaginable" aside, why single out black people, as if they're the only ones who need this valuable lesson? As far as I can tell, people of
all races could benefit from seeing something like this on screen.
Overall, I do get the points you're trying to make, and I understand your passion.
The Dark Tower is a great story and you, like many other fans, want it to be told right. However, Roland being played by a black actor does not automatically mean the movie adaptation is inevitably doomed to fail. Also, hinging your aspirations for the betterment of race relations on this adaptation seems a bit misguided. But I agree with
Pericles3614 - that was a strong post.
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dunnjanet
8 years ago
What a brilliant post, you have totally nailed it. I could never understand why one of the strongest BLACK FEMALE characters in fiction would be watered down . People who keep saying that they could change her are so missing the wonderful way she changed from being a complete racist against whites to loving Roland and being in love with Eddie. They didn't need a strong black lead because they already had one.
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Captain_Wesker
8 years ago
are so missing the wonderful way she changed from being a complete racist against whites to loving Roland and being in love with Eddie.
That was the evil split personality of DETTA WALKER. Odetta/Susannah "changed" because Roland used a magical doorway to magically meld the "Goad" with the woman's
primary personality. Odetta/Susannah loved Eddie from the start. Odetta/Susannah came to respect Roland despite her fear of his sometimes robotic and scarily focused mentality...not because he had a lighter shade of skin.
There was no inherent racism on the character's behalf and she did not slowly plus naturally change on that subject over time.
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
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Captain_Wesker
8 years ago
Bump.
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
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ruink
8 years ago
This is all the way back from March, but just now reading this.
This post nails it so dead on...How can anyone disagree?
I'd like someone to seriously engage this dude's post.
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Captain_Wesker
8 years ago
You're backing/supporting a parody. Congratulations!
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
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ruink
8 years ago
I was not responding to the original poster. So, in fact, not responding to a parody. So congratulations on not even knowing what you're talking about weirdo!
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Captain_Wesker
8 years ago
meleractor is a well known parody of a right-wing troll on these boards.
Though, I suppose when his own farcical views align neatly with your own, it says just as much about you as it does him.
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
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ruink
8 years ago
A satirical poster that you seem to consistently and seriously engage with if this thread is any indication.
So joke is on you?
Wesker, you're exhausting.
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Captain_Wesker
8 years ago
It is not satire. He holds similar views on the Luke Cage (among others)
P.S. If you really believed it to be satire, you wouldn't say,
This post nails it so dead on...How can anyone disagree?
I'd like someone to seriously engage this dude's post.
Then...
Garbage response. Garbage post.
...to someone disgusted with their warped views.
But hey...the fact that you lost patience and whipped out "SJW" kind of proves that you're chock full of grade A manure.
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
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ruink
8 years ago
...you just got through saying that this guy does 'parody' posts...
...now you're saying it is not satire...
and don't get into how parody and satire are two different things. in this case the words are being used interchangeably.
you're running in circles now and contradicting yourself at every turn. stop for the sake of embarrassing yourself further.
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Captain_Wesker
8 years ago
A parody he believes in, apparently.
Don't try to imply that he is somehow engaging in cleverly subversive social commentary meant to aid the disenfranchised and discrimination. His history does not speak to it.
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
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