MovieChat Forums > The Dark Tower (2017) Discussion > PC and SJW question

PC and SJW question

posted 8 years ago by tinasparklesau
18 replies | jump to latest

A serious question as i've always been puzzled by this debate and honestly don't understand why it's so prominent here. Looking at it for a moment in simple black and white terms, a SJW should be regarded as a good thing and i believe it once was until it became a derogatory term. Someone who promotes socially progressive views, great! Same thing for PC... i.e instead of someone using the word 'retarded', i would prefer a more politically correct label. Both terms should have extremist, radical or fanatic added to the end of these terms imo to be used as a negative. But anyway -

HOW ARE THESE TERMS RELEVANT TO TDT???

Why do some people think that casting Idris as Roland is an extreme socially progressive decision? How is casting a black actor as Roland going to affect the black community or even the white community? The medium to make this type of stand makes no sense to me, Roland is a character in a series of fiction novels. A very important series to most of us, but he is still not a historical figure at all that changing the colour of his skin is going to make even a ripple let alone waves in the real world. I can't see the casting of Idris changing anything at all in the grand scheme of things. Do black people go to the cinema more than white people, or will do so because Roland is now black on this turn of the wheel? (I know i'm stretching common sense here but that's how ludicrous it seems to me).

Why would people think that this is a 'politically correct stunt'. What is political about it, politics don't enter the books at all (or very miniscule in relation to Odetta). Why would one think casting a black actor as Roland is PC? If anything it has simply pissed off fans that never envisioned Roland as black, so is quite UN-PC, did black fans of the series have an issue that Roland was white in the books? What possible agenda could be pushed that would make one think this is based on political correctness? The studio's want to make MONEY. The long term collaborators could have their own agendas but at the end of the day where the money comes from to make TDT, it's about payoff. Imo the studios don't give a s=*t as long as they make a profit. So what kind of a stunt is this exactly? One to lose money and tarnish reputations? They took a gamble with fans on changing the race of the lead character, so i assume they had a bloody good reason.

I can see why fans are unhappy for a variety of reasons. I wouldn't have picked Idris myself, and his appearance is only one reason. By proxy his skin colour being one of them but only because of an overall look of Roland that i've always envisioned - i also wouldn't have chosen Danny DeVito, Joe Pesci, Steve Buscemi, Edward Pattinson, Channing Tatum, Steve Martin, Jet Li etc.

If there's an agenda at all, i would speculate that they chose him because he's a popular rising star minus the A-list paycheck. Alienating the first (and very loud) voice of fans that desperately want this movie is not PC at all, it's stupid unless they had a good reason for it.

Excuse my naiveté, but i don't understand the SJW/PC accusations and how it's relevant to this movie. I would be more concerned that it would be aimed at the YA audience. Now that is my real nightmare.

[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

Looking at it for a moment in simple black and white terms, a SJW should be regarded as a good thing and i believe it once was until it became a derogatory term. Someone who promotes socially progressive views, great! Same thing for PC... i.e instead of someone using the word 'retarded', i would prefer a more politically correct label. Both terms should have extremist, radical or fanatic added to the end of these terms imo to be used as a negative.

Many terms that one would think to be a positive get shouted down by people in opposition to them for whatever reason. You mentioned "SJW"? "Intellectual" and "environmentalist" came to my mind.

Anyhow, in my experience, ninety-nine times out of one-hundred, "PC" and "SJW" are derogatory terms leveled against someone who isn't a heterosexual Caucasian/white male (all three qualifiers are necessary).
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

[–] workbumpf 8 years ago

I'd just quibble a bit about "SJWs". It used to be a derogatory term used by right-wingers but it has, over the course of the election campaign, come to be considered extreme identity politics, people fretting about "microaggressions" while progressives are fighting against fascism.

I'll give you an example. A reviewer was complaining about a Latin American actor being cast in a role based extremely loosely on a real-life Filippino - though the whole story had been totally rewritten and the character was now South American. She claimed it was a case of "Hispanic washing"?? and obviously a racist slight against Filippinos... that's an SJW for me.

[–] Arm_the_Masses 8 years ago

Interesting post. My understanding of the term is that it is used in a derogatory way to describe someone who is "overly sensitive / hysterical" about social injustices to the point where they "see ghosts" of the injustices they are focused on where none are. I understand what you mean, though, in that it shouldn't be a negatively laden concept.

Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion

[–] Spider198 8 years ago

Why would anyone think Elba's casting isn't a PC publicity stunt? When you cast a sh*t actor, who is totally the wrong build and the wrong race. They weren't picked for their ability, they were picked to give the film attention. Appeal to the SJM (social justice morons) and give them the ability to call anyone racist who disagrees, which they've literally already done.

And social justice warriors are opiniated, and hypocritical idiots who push for race not being an issue but make a big deal out of it the second a white person is cast in anything. The same dimwits who support this casting are the ones claiming it was racist to make Iron Fist, the white comic character, white in the tv show. And the case of others claim they don't care about race on this board but do nothing but b*tch and moan about Scarlet being in an adaption of Ghost in the shell or Matt Damon being the lead in 'The Great Wall'. A role that was never meant to be Asian in the first place.

[–] joannatn 8 years ago

Spidey, you're going and making a lot of unfair generalizations there, luv. I wholeheartedly support Elba's casting in the role, but not because I'm trying to be progressive and teach the world to sing in perfect harmony. What I did was I took a moment to let the casting decision sink in, I gave it some thought, and then I realized that it could work. I'm giving this a chance not to take some great morale crusade, but because it legitimately could work if given a chance. I understand fully that it might be a disaster, but I'm going to remain hopeful it will not.

You gotta stop doing that thing you do, honey. The one where you call us hypocrites and idiots because we're taking a different stance. It's unfair and helps you earn that ugly troll title you keep getting assigned. Let's face it; you're being just a smidge insulting and I'm sure all you really want to do is have an intelligent, meaningful conversation with some of us. Don't you?

[–] Spider198 8 years ago

Not generalising at all. Wesker, who commented on this very thread is a prime example of what I was saying. Spouts endless cr*p about anyone who questions a race change on this board but the I don't care about race bullsh*t is just that, complete bullsh*t because he's on other boards complaining anytime a white actor/actress is cast in anything where they didn't start off white or even when they were created that way in the first place. Along with most of the other idiots on this board.

Majority of people who defend Elba's casting have no interest in the books, just latch onto it because it's a nice agenda to push for SJW fools.

[–] GladysOver 8 years ago

Someone who promotes socially progressive views, great!

.....and socialists only want social equality and feminists only want gender equality and anarchists only want freedom, etc, etc, etc.

Yeah and the f^cking rest. 

Now if only such self-aggrandising theory and the far less palatable reality would occasionally 'fraternise' with each other then the above motley gaggles of far Left wastrels, nutters and ingrates might garner some tangible credibility....

As for 'Social Justice Warrior' well that's always been a derogatory term and deservedly so. Social Justice as a concept however once indeed enjoyed palpable legitimacy before its irrevocable corruption.

Such is life.

[–] politicidal 8 years ago

For most people, I'm sure it's just that he didn't fit the vision they had in mind for the character. Indeed, Roland is drawn specifically like Clint Eastwood. And people would rather wish they stuck with that. I understand that.
But as you said, it's likely because Idris Elba is a rising star and popular actor now as to why he was cast. And odds are, his appearance in the film won't affect the movie as a whole. It's not like they're gonna turn this into Hamilton! or something.
The PC/SJW accusations are just trolls pouncing on the chance to espouse their opinion.

Whatever you are, be a good one.

[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

Correction: a hybrid of Eastwood and author Stephen King. Fans often forget this .

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

[–] Spider198 8 years ago

Which Elba doesn't look remotely like. So what point are you trying to prove there? How bad he is for the part?

[–] Spider198 8 years ago

It's more the reverse. The people defending it are just SJW idiots using the PC casting of Elba to push their idiotic ideas of not seeing race. Unless of course a fictional character is changed to white. Then they, and no doubt you included, go crazy about it not being right to change race and automatically label it whitewashing.

[–] Spider198 8 years ago

And also wrong because Elba was cast simply to pull a cheap PC publicity stunt, as proven by the hack Goldsman already labelling anyone against it a racist.
To sum up, you are so wrong.

[–] browner86 8 years ago

I am someone that gets annoyed by political correctness and social justice in entertainment. I recognize that there are people out there that just like to pick fights online but there is a legitimate debate to be had on weather an overly sensitive social justice culture is good for society and media.

It's foolish to say that casting Idris Elba as Roland is PC/SJW because no one has seen the movie. If he is a bad fit for the role we can have that discussion.
I think when directors are worried about casting a equal mix of every minority, gender and orientation group than its entirely possible that there will be people cast in roles not to add to the production but to help Hollywood feel less guilty for casting John Wayne as Ghengis Khan.

My biggest complaint with an entertainment medium making a political statement is that it pulls me out of the story.

I'm all for diversity and inclusiveness but I'm not a fan of pandering or forced political statements. It's at best distracting and at worst alienating.

I appreciate that this thread has thus far been a discussion rather than a mud slinging session.

[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

If he is a bad fit for the role we can have that discussion.

Question: in that scenario, can't he (Elba) misinterpret the character without his casting necessarily being "PC" or "SJW"?

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

[–] browner86 8 years ago

I don't know, changing a characters race is pretty risky. If it flops they are going to have a much more difficult time defending their choice.
I personally am not worried because I haven't seen him in a role he didn't excel at. It would be a different story if it was Ja rule as the lead.

Whenever they convert a popular
work from print to even they have an almost impossible task to please everyone. I loved I am Legend and think that Will Smith did great in the role. When I read the book afterwards (although i enjoyed it) it was a little jarring to imagine him as an old, chain smoking, over-weight, white guy. It's probably a similar reaction that fans of the book (or the Charlton Heston film)
had when they watched Will Smith's take on the character.

The problem with political correctness is people are afraid to criticize a work if it had a bold social statement because they are afraid of being labeled with an "ist" or a "phobe".

Rogue one brought diversity to the star wars franchise and it felt natural and actually helped build the universe. However I don't feel that the new Ghostbusters did any favors for the franchise or the women's movement.

[–] lone-foxx 8 years ago

I AM Legend was horrible because they ruined the point of the story, or they just didn't get it. He was the monster, not the others, they were the new rulers, the new humans, he was to become a legend, a boogieman, a monster. He killed them while they slept, entire families. I AM Legend had none of that, it had Will Smith doing his coolguy thing, completely wrong character choice.

Did you miss The Last Man on Earth with Vincent Price? That was a good adaption as well.

"This is What You Want... This is What You Get"

[–] Frequency270 8 years ago

It has been years since I've seen The Last Man on Earth (1964) or The Omega Man (1971), but weren't both similar to I Am Legend (2007) in that they kept the basic concept but ignored the finale twist that Richard Matheson put at the very end of the short story?

Damion Crowley
Who knows but that, on the lower frequencies, I speak for you.--R.E.

[–] Duckybooze 8 years ago

i really doubt they cast idris elba just because he is black and they wanted to appear non racist. I was suprised when i read he was playing roland just because it does not fit the image i have of roland in my head from reading the books