This is exactly the kind of stuff that I absolutely hate when watching a movie ... where things are stretched to such inconceivable levels of incredulousness that it insults your intelligence to attempt to "suspend disbelief" any longer.
We're supposed to believe that a wanted fugitive whose face is on every news alert for kidnapping his daughter somehow gets a job on Philipe Weis's security detail and surprise ambushes him?
Come ON!
Granted, the entire plot is pretty out there in itself. But it's science fiction, and I can excuse an "out there" plot. But what I can't excuse is a plot device with a 2 mile hole in it due to lazy writing.
I forgot about that! Yeah, it was awful and it made me go Huh? Will didn't change his appearance! (like wear a wig, mustache, beard). He went to the Clark Kent School for Masquerading by wearing sunglasses. Hey, who's that guy? (takes off glasses). Oh, it's YOU!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ <sniff> <sniff> I smell ice cream!
So what you're saying is that this high profile fugitive that was on the run with his face splashed on every news bulletin somehow approached Philipe's security detail responsible for guarding Philipe and bribed them with time without him noticing. Interesting theory.
So Philipe was incompetent for hiring low paid rentacops and having not one loyal individual that would normally head his security detail tip him off that the guy that kidnapped his daughter had just applied for a job with him.
It's implied that he just blended in with the group. They were concerned with outside threats, not scoping out the other bodyguards, so they didn't pay him any special attention. It makes sense -- they're trained to be alert for danger, but not necessarily alert to things that they assume they can trust, like other guards. It would be a source of distraction to be paying attention to the "non-essentials", so it's perfectly logical that he could blend with them without being detected immediately. The time lapse between them gathering after leaving the cars and Amanda's character drawing all their attention wasn't very long, after all.
Sorry but your explanation made even less sense since what you're saying is that they're incompetent. We're supposed to assume, given his status and wealth, that he had outsourced his security needs to the best security firm that money could buy. That would involve ex-secret service and ex special forces guys that have been training and practicing providing airtight security all their lives. You don't just hire a bunch of no name individuals off the street that have never worked together before and aren't familiar with each other. Your claim is hilarious.
Your idea of hilarity is pretty pedestrian, then. Nobody said they were "no name individuals off the street". They could very well have been corporate security, or simply guards taken off other assignments. In a sufficiently large corporation, there's no reason to assume any given individuals have worked closely with any other given individuals. There's no reason to assume that these people have always functioned as a unit. You're making huge assumptions and presenting them as fact. The only fact you can actually offer is that these were people gathered to protect a VIP for a while. We're not talking about security in a time of open warfare or anything...we're talking about a guy who just didn't want a couple bank robbers catching up to him. They bribed their way into the zone, not blasted through with guns a-blazin'.
Still you're making the hilarious assumption that he was incompetent in assembling a security detail to protect his own life by hiring "simply guards" or using "corporate security" unfamiliar with the basics of competent bodyguard work. Preventing a stealth hit would be among the fundamentals known in the profession, and that begins by knowing everyone on your team. So all in all it's still pretty comical.
People have done similar things in real life for instance a man broke into the Vatican dressed as a deacon and went unnoticed for a while and nearly even got in a secret meeting with the pope and the guards in Vatican city are in fact highly trained individuals on the level of the u.s secret service
That would involve ex-secret service and ex special forces guys that have been training and practicing providing airtight security all their lives.
You're assuming that those still exist in the time of this universe. We have no idea what their government/military situation is. There's also the fact that he needed a huge increase in his personal security in a short time, so even though there may be plenty of highly skilled security personnel, it's possible that they're already assigned to someone else, and it may take time to put together a team of that size who have worked together on a regular basis.
You don't just hire a bunch of no name individuals off the street that have never worked together before and aren't familiar with each other.
He had something like a dozen guards. How many security companies do you think have a dozen guys waiting around who always work in groups of a dozen?
Sylvia notes that he recently hired EXTRA security, which probably means he has a few guys of his own, who likely haven't worked with the other X guys he hired, even if all of the rest came together, that's 2 groups of guys who don't know the other group. If the security company has groups that work in 4's to make sure they're a cohesive team that work well together, and he had to settle for hiring 2 groups of 4's who each work together, that's 4 guys who haven't worked with the other group of 4 guys who he hired, as well as the 4 guys from his personal security.
And really, your point of them NOT being incompetent is moot because when Sylvia walked in and one of the guards turned and aimed his gun at her, ALL of the other guys also turned around and pointed their guns at her. If they were a competent cohesive group that regularly works together as a 12 man team, they would likely cover him from all angles instead of focusing all of their attention on a single suspect who obviously wanted to get their attention.
It doesn't matter whether or not he would have hired the best because of his wealth, based on their reaction to a single person (who happened to be his daughter) they clearly weren't very good. There's also the fact that their boss should have briefed them on the fact that all of the extra security was to protect him from TWO people. So seeing one person as a potential threat would likely mean that at least one other person may be somewhere else in the general vicinity posing a threat to his life, and they should be looking out for that.
-He walks into the building with his dozen guards around him. Good. -They're all looking in the same direction. Bad. -One guy glances back a moment and sees a person with a gun. Bad. -That guy says "Stop" and they all turn around, draw their guns, step toward her, and keep all of their attention on her. Bad. -All of them seem to now be in front of Weis who pushes them aside to talk to her. Bad.
So even though it's logical that he'd hire the best, most cohesive team of security guards to protect himself, he clearly DIDN'T. And that's why Will was able to do what he did.
If there's an error here, it's not that Will was somehow able to sneak up on a highly skilled, cohesive security team, it's the fact that Weis hired a bunch of amateurs.
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You're assuming that those still exist in the time of this universe. We have no idea what their government/military situation is. There's also the fact that he needed a huge increase in his personal security in a short time, so even though there may be plenty of highly skilled security personnel, it's possible that they're already assigned to someone else, and it may take time to put together a team of that size who have worked together on a regular basis.
You're making a lot of excuses for what is plainly a plot hole.
He had something like a dozen guards. How many security companies do you think have a dozen guys waiting around who always work in groups of a dozen?
For the right price, or in this case for the kind of compensation in time he had on offer, immediately. He was a man of means.
Sylvia notes that he recently hired EXTRA security, which probably means he has a few guys of his own, who likely haven't worked with the other X guys he hired, even if all of the rest came together, that's 2 groups of guys who don't know the other group. If the security company has groups that work in 4's to make sure they're a cohesive team that work well together, and he had to settle for hiring 2 groups of 4's who each work together, that's 4 guys who haven't worked with the other group of 4 guys who he hired, as well as the 4 guys from his personal security.
So what you're saying is that he's either too incompetent himself to hire competent security guys, or that the guys he hired are incompetent. Because what it comes down to is you're saying one or the other. Because even if he were hiring extra guys it's pretty incompetent that his main security team isn't properly managing the extras and would allow a stealth guard to masquerade as one of them anyway you slice it.
And really, your point of them NOT being incompetent is moot because when Sylvia walked in and one of the guards turned and aimed his gun at her, ALL of the other guys also turned around and pointed their guns at her. If they were a competent cohesive group that regularly works together as a 12 man team, they would likely cover him from all angles instead of focusing all of their attention on a single suspect who obviously wanted to get their attention. It doesn't matter whether or not he would have hired the best because of his wealth, based on their reaction to a single person (who happened to be his daughter) they clearly weren't very good.
There's also the fact that their boss should have briefed them on the fact that all of the extra security was to protect him from TWO people. So seeing one person as a potential threat would likely mean that at least one other person may be somewhere else in the general vicinity posing a threat to his life, and they should be looking out for that.
Yup. Which is what I've said if you've followed the thread. Either he's incompetent for hiring an incompetent security team to protect his life, or the high priced team he assembled happened to be incompetent. Both are inconceivable given the circumstances. Wealth should be able to buy the best team money could buy. He, being in the business of hoarding time, should be able to get a good referral on the best team he could hire to protect his life. Any way you slice it, it's a plot hole.
trained security are not trained to pay attention to the other security that would be a distraction they pay attention. if you look at history there have been many cases where people have slipped in with the crowd and evaded people who were otherwise experts in spotting a person out of place. also the society they live in is not very intelligent anyways because that many guards would in fact be a weakness. all he would have needed was just a few guards maybe 3 or four and the rest would be situated somewhere they could have a proper watchful eye
I don't think we are supposed to believe that Will got a job as security for Weis. We are supposed to believe that Weis' highly trained security guards couldn't spot the ONE person they were looking for, even when he was right beside them. That's equally as ridiculous.
it is not ridiculous its human nature to not be able to pay attention to every detail
look at history where men have done the same type of things
its based on the entire outlook of the movie
the rich or the people who live in the good neighborhoods are slow dimwitted individuals and the people who are poor and living in horrible neighborhoods are fast paced and learn how to adapt very easily
Perhaps, but even so the fact that they deleted such a key scene that is essential to making any sense out of an otherwise yawning plot hole is just absurd.
So you must have some sort of bionic ear that gives you the superpower of hearing dialog that doesn't exist. That's what makes you so special that of all the people that have tried to answer this question you are the FIRST to have heard this phantom dialog that explains that he bribed his way in.
U da man.
So I actually wasted 10 minutes of my life yesterday re-watching that scene along with the scene immediately before and after it with English subtitles ON in case I missed something. Nope. I just don't have your bionic ear.
So you might wanna lay off the shrooms dude. They can cause audio hallucinations where you hear those little green men talking too much in your head.
A bribe was mentioned somewhere in the scene. Watched it about 20 minutes ago. Think there may be different editions if you really watched yours so closely and yet don't notice it.
Not sure what the bribe was in reference too though. Didn't pay that much attention.
I just double checked to see if I and everyone else in this thread could have really missed such a key piece of dialog essential to making sense of that scene.
It didn't exist. So you obviously invented that line of dialog.
The general idea you get is that crime in the rich areas is non-existent, and it's instead the riches paranoia that makes them hire tons of guards.
Also given how easy it is to steal time, a guard would need to be above all loyal more so than competent so that makes me believe the guards were distant family members and not unrelated professionals. (if they exist)
So it's quite possible the guards were that incompetent.
Sure it's possible. Anything's possible. It should be possible for lightning to strike all the bodyguards dead and leave him exposed enough for Will to take the same advantage.
But the better question is ... is it plausible enough not to make the entire plot device seem absurd? And without any additional attempt to explain such a ridiculous inconsistency, the answer can only be a resounding NO.
Yeah i agree, they would need to be seriously incompetent for one lone guy in a deserted area to get the jump on them. The even more pathetic thing is if they had a mob or crowd of people salas coming in with a gun would have not been far-fetched it's happened many times in the past. (bill gates got a cake in his face for example)
Sorry but you're just not making any sense whatsoever. Like the torrents of posters before you, if you had bothered to read this thread, came up with the equally asinine and implausible claim that Timberlake just snuck up and blended in. It's really quite comical because what you're implying is that Philipe Weis's security detail was completely and totally incompetent. Philipe was a man of means and it was well within his capacity to assemble the best team time could buy to protect his own life. Premium security details involve ex secret service and special forces members that have spent their careers training for this sort of stuff and being familiar with everyone else on your team is an absolute requirement. Guys don't just "sneak up" and pretend to be on your team if you're providing competent security.
What if you tried to "sneak up" and blend in pretending to be secret service in attempt to assassinate the president? You think you could pull it off by just "hanging around the building and blending in"?
You think no one would give you a second glance?
ROTFL.
It's really quite comical that you and many like you are so desperate to think what he did made sense that you throw common sense straight out the window in order to make it work.
"Premium security details involve ex secret service and special forces members that have spent their careers training for this sort of stuff and being familiar with everyone else on your team is an absolute requirement. Guys don't just "sneak up" and pretend to be on your team if you're providing competent security. "
things like that have happened before in the past in actual real life with highly competent security.
i taken security seminars before and essentially what our teachers said is that there is no possible way for you to pay attention to every individual on a security detail to know for sure that everyone is who they are supposed to be. the only thing you can do is be ready for any situation and high security details are trained in hand to hand combat and other techniques for such situations but its clear that in this movie the wealthy are not very intelligent. and that the security detail is mainly for bodies to be in between you and danger.