In the woods behind the school Matt call Mavis "Sylvia".
There's an old post on this board asking the same question and the answer given is that it's a reference to poet Sylvia Plath. Not sure how anyone would know that, and even if it's true how does that make any sense in that scene?
Loved this movie for so many reasons.
rpn0728 writes:
Not sure how anyone would know that, and even if it's true how does that make any sense in that scene?
Isn't it because Matt is questioning Mavis's mental faculties?
Plath was a writer who had problems with depression.
Mavis is a writer who has problems with depression.
The analogy seems clear.
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
OK, I guess I just wasn't familiar with Sylvia Plath. Still seems like kind of an obscure reference. Maybe it's just me, thanks.
shareSylvia Plath spent time in mental hospitals and committed suicide. Her books used to be very popular with, uhhh, "disenfranchised" young women.
shareBoogie_Nights writes:
"Her books used to be very popular with, uhhh, 'disenfranchised' young women."
By this, you mean Feminists, of course.
Feminists like Diablo Cody perhaps?
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
Actually, what I mean is screwed up, chronically depressed young women. Not necessarily feminists.
shareTo (loosely) quote Woody Allen from 'Manhattan', It's a shame that young women take this woman's tragic suicide and romanticize it.
Considering the dreck Mavis wrote I'm surprised she was able to realize she'd been insulted.
Good quote there!
I loved Manhattan. One of Woody Allen's finest films.
Actually, I think the reason Diablo Cody put this in there is because Sylvia Plath has made a sort of comeback (for pathetic reasons, but no less). Plath has become something of a fad for suburban teenagers and college-aged girls who think they can relate to her. The reality is that Sylvia Plath was genuinely f_u_c_k_e_d up and had serious mental problems, whereas these bored hip girls think their lives are comparable because they got dumped or didn't get an H&M shopping spree for their birthday.
Plath really only wrote one novel though, she mostly published poetry.
The Bell Jar.
shareOr maybe women still like Sylvia Plath because The Bell Jar is still highly relatable today. She hasn't had a comeback because she never left. Because young women can be high achievers, and be pushed to be high achievers, and it means nothing to them. They get the A's, and the prizes, and awards, and they're just passing time, and they have a bit of self-awareness and realize it's all going to be moot in a couple of years. And they know, deep down, they can't have it all and be happy the way the magazines tell them they can. They have to make choices and they have to lose. They know the world is still an unfair place for women, but no one will admit it. It's a really easy entry into feminism for young women.
And maybe some women are depressed, too, with "serious mental problems", which doesn't make them automatically "f_u_c_k_e_d up". I used to feel exactly like Sylvia Plath in high school, and I loved her because she could say exactly how I felt, and so I knew I wasn't alone. And I didn't feel like a failure because the psychiatrist couldn't help me, just kept scheduling appointments and collecting payments and prescribing pills and misunderstanding everything I said. And maybe I kept the Bell Jar handy because I could use it as a gauge when I wasn't getting help; the more she understood me, the more I knew I wasn't doing okay. And maybe I keep old Sylvia around still because I don't romanticize her suicide, because I read her angry, brilliant, breathtaking poetry and I think, "why are you gone from us?" and I know I can't do the same, even when I want to.
Or maybe we all did specifically ask for a gift certificate to H&M for our birthdays, and not Abercrombie & Fitch.
I'm in love with your post.
shareGreat post-thank you for taking the time to write such a personal well thought out reply.
"Gentlemen you can't fight in here!" "This is the war room!" Dr. Strangelove
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I don't think people romanticize it at all, yes, The Bell Jar is popular amongst younger women, but in my opinion the hero-worship of Sylvia Plath is because of her writing, which was about her feelings, something women were not really supposed to share back then. She spoke the issue of depression for thousands of voiceless women in the 50s, something we can only imagine. She empowered women to understand that they were not alone. Her death was tragic, but I don't think she would be any less worshipped had she lived to 90 and not comitted suicide.
shareI don't KNOW this, but I kind of took it that Mavis was sort of her "stage" name. Considering how many people I know named Sylvia (4) and how many I know named Mavis (0), I just assumed that she felt Sylvia was sort of pedestrian and small town. So she went by Mavis since she was young because it sounds more exotic. Sort of like how Lana Del Reye's name isn't that. Maybe Mavis is her middle name. Plus they were having a fight, so he wanted to hit her where it hurt and calling her by her real name rather than her stage persona probably did.
Again, I don't know that for sure but I think it is more likely than a Sylvia Plath reference. Anyway, that's what I inferred.
I'm sorry but that is purely your concoction. Her parents would have been calling her Sylvia if that was the case. Matt was referring to Sylvia Plath, a tragic, depressed, suicidal writer. Very similar to Mavis.
shareI'm sorry, but Sylvia Plath is purely your guess as well.
Mavis Gary: Buddy's not happy, okay? So just stop saying that.
Matt Freehauf: You're hardly the authority on happiness, Sylvia.
Mavis Gary: You know what, Matt? It really is a shame that you're like this because if you had a good personality none of this other stuff would bother people.
If your mind automatically goes to Sylvia Plath, then it's a leap in my mind and no more valid than my opinion.
Again, I'm not saying I know, but I have a friend, Richard, who goes by Ricky. Even his parent's call him Ricky. My brother, Robert, actually does go by his middle name, Zachary. Except he goes by Zach and everyone calls him that, even his own mother.
Thanks for the quote. You cemented my and everyone else's KNOWLEDGE - not theory - KNOWLEDGE - that it's about Sylvia Plath.
"You are hardly the authority on happiness, Syllllviiiaaaa"
As in, you are a depressed and tragic mess Mavis, much like Sylvia Plath.
It's like when someone says anything slightly anti-Semitic and you reply to them: "Thanks, Mel".
designatedkb writes:
"I'm sorry, but Sylvia Plath is purely your guess as well."
Except that it is an educated guess with clear parallels.
Sylvia Plath was a very unhappy writer, Mavis is a very unhappy writer.
In Plath's novel The Bell Jar, the main character Esther (modelled on Plath herself) has a romantic relationship with a man named "Buddy" who is from her hometown.
And it might be significant that Buddy proposed to Esther.
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
[deleted]
Ivy_Meer writes:
"He was implying rather nastily that Mavis saw herself as being like Plath, while he did not."
Oh! Very good point.
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
designatedkb:
maybe you can pitch this idea to Diablo Cody and you can write Young Adult II together.
the answer given is that it's a reference to poet Sylvia Plath. Not sure how anyone would know that
Sylvia could be the name she wrote books under or a character in her books. Mavis might be a different name from her real name. I think the scripter or the director might've goofed, the dialogue's been re-edited so many times. To resolve this, ask Diablo Cody. Only she would know. Send the question to her agent.
shareI'm a bit surprised there are still people who didn't get this movie properly. Of course it's Silvia Plath, the whole movie revolves around depression. The point is how nobody actually acknowledges her sickness. Because yes, she was sick, it wasn't her personality since the viewer get informed about her past( back when she was happy). When she told her parents that she was an alcoholic they completely ignored that, and at the end there was Silvia's speech which had one and only point - to show how people are completely ignorant about depression. If she has it all, she must be happy. And there is the main untruth. She is not happy, she is a miserable and sad person because depression is a serious illness and it shouldn't be confused with spoiled teens not getting what they want or getting dumped etc. Spoiled brats are the reason people who actually do need help don't get it and are often not taken seriously.
shareBefore painting such deep symbols, someone should ask Diablo Cody if she was mentioning Sylvia Plath. We're trying to read her mind. It could be, but only just to express Cody's sadness about her last reunion which she said gave her material to write this movie.
sharehollywoodshack writes: "...someone should ask Diablo Cody if she was mentioning Sylvia Plath."
Filmmakers often do not address symbolism directly.
The film (or work of art) is presented for the audience to interpret.
Seeing as how "Buddy" is also a name from Plath's writing, I would say the reference is to her.
"Maybe it's another dimension. Or, you know, just really deep." --Needy
Someone should ask Diablo Cody, anyway. I'm sure she would answer. Ask her agent.
share