After Sandra gave all her speech and effort to make Mavis feel better about herself, and ask Mavis to take her with her, why would she not take her? I think that was very mean of Mavis. I felt bad for Sandra, I almost cry.
shareBecause Mavis is still in the highschool-b1tch attitude. She still thinks Sandra is below her.
I'm as moist as a snack cake down there!
"She still thinks Sandra is below her."
Yes.
It's clear that Mavis dislikes the town and all its people. She would never associate with Matt and Sandra under normal conditions.
Also, I found Sandra's request to be over-the-top. Just like Mavis expecting to get Buddy back, Sandra expects to leave town with someone that hardly knows her. It's not in the realm of possibilities.
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
It was definitely over the top. But I don't feel bad for her. She shares the same ignorant analysis of life that Mavis does. She gets no out.
shareThat's the point that it supposed to be over the top because Sandra is stuck as her high school self as well. She's still the plain and shy girl no one knows or care for like she has become as an adult. And she still wants to be popular like the cheerleaders and prom queen. So she played into the role of complimenting Mavis the whole time at the breakfast table and thought to ask Mavis to take her to Mini Apple.
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I think in the case of Sandra, Mavis felt that Sandra belonged where she was whereas Sandra told Mavis that she took a risk and did something different with her life.
shareTrue, but Sandra is also troubled in her own way. The people who seems okay and happy are Buddy, Beth and perhaps Matt. Even if Matt is not married or anything. He's accepted his life now.
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Thanks true, and I think it's also that Mavis realises, after talking to Sandra, how much reconstruction of her own life she has ahead of her. Simply taking Sandra back to her life in the mini apple is unrealistic--sure, Sandra wants to leave (anybody from a small town that gets a taste of what lies outside would feel the same) but randomly, and with someone who, previous to this little meeting wouldn't have given her the time of day, just wouldn't happen.
shareI was thinking that Mavis did though about Sandra been below her, I think Sandra shouldn't have tell her any of those stuff she told her, maybe Mavis would had change if Sandra wouldn't tell her that, but I do think that was pretty mean of Mavis, she should have taken Sandra with her. Is nobody good enough for her(Mavis)? This is movie is not what I expected.
shareMayyaPerla writes:
"...maybe Mavis would had change if Sandra wouldn't tell her that..."
Yes. Perhaps Mavis would have.
But it seems it didn't take much to change Mavis back. Sandra's comments seem silly to me.
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
At course it did not take much to change Mavis back to who she was, after what Sandra told her, she had the chance to change but she had to listen to Sandra, this is the reason why she should have taken Sandra with her.
shareI agree with NeedysBoy that taking Sandra with her would have been a very unrealistic option. She hardly knew Sandra and didn't even like her. Even if Mavis had been a semi-decent person who didn't look down on Sandra and other townspeople,it would have been hard to imagine that Mavis would have taken a near stranger home with her just because she told Mavis a few things she wanted to hear. I mean, what would the plan have been? Live with Mavis while she looked for a job in a city where she probably didn't know anybody else? Would Mavis just support her until she got her new life in gear? Considering how much Sandra worshipped her, she would have probably wanted to live with her forever.
I know that if I had been in Mavis's shoes, I certainly wouldn't have taken her with me and I'm a fairly nice person.I think the request itself was pretty creepy.
@ dancingjinn2,
Yes. All you said is right.
Sandra had her own little dream world. Her request just wasn't practical.
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
I really thought a lot of the characters in this film had their own mental problems. Sandra's was living in her dream world.
shareThey all did, except for Buddy. Matt obviously was scarred by what happened to him, Sandra was a dim bulb who wanted out but didn't have any options, Mavis was totally messed up because of the events in her life and Beth was probably the most messed up of them all. Why would she send a birth announcement to her husband's ex, most likely also knowing that they were living together in college, 20 years after high school and insist she be invited to the naming party? Buddy seemed bland, but content and happy in his life.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
Yes, but for once Mavis could have been nice, Is it so hard for Mavis to be a nice person? Sandra was sweet to Mavis, it would nice to see Mavis been nice at least one time in her life.
shareMayyah writes:
"...it would nice to see Mavis been nice at least one time in her life."
There's a reason Mavis is that way. Jennifer Check in Jennifer's Body is the same way. Diablo seems to like torturing the mean popular girls now. So maybe it's personal.
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
I think Mavis realizes, finally, that she _can't_ take Sandra with her, even if she wanted to. I mean, she could take her to Minneapolis, but she can't give Sandra the new life that she wants. Only Sandra can do that. It's the same thing she's realized about herself: Buddy will not make her happy, any more than her first husband did. She's spent a lot of time thinking that other people will make her happy, but in the end, after hitting the bottom of that line of thinking, she's ready to try to make herself happy. Will she succeed? Who knows. Maybe not. But she can't go back.
shareSandra wasn't sweet to Mavis. Mavis was reaching out for help, admitting to her alcoholism and depression, and Sandra refused to hear it--she wanted Mavis to stay this fantasy who escaped Mercury to the big city and a career as a writer, even if that fantasy wasn't good for Mavis.
shareMavis was a very damaged human being, how could she have been responsible for Sandra when she was totally losing control of her life? They didn't know each other. If I came up to you and asked if I could come home with you, would you take me? I don't think so.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
but is that such a hard thing to do after what she'd done to Mavis? Mavis was a near-wreck which drove her to have sex with a guy whose penis was in shambles. And her, who is such a stuck-up. Now, having done this much to her all Mavis had to do was to take Sandra with her to the city and let her find her own self away from the supposedly 'bad' small town, Mercury.
It makes perfect sense to me, and saying no is very rude indeed and unreasonable too.
I don't think Sandra was just asking for a ride.
shareSandra told Mavis that because she worshiped the smart, prettiest girl in school, cheerleader, homecoming queen who got out. Sandra wanted out, but was a bit dim and had no options but to stay where she was. Mavis didn't take Sandra because she didn't know her. They'd pretty much just met. I bet the first time they ever talked was when Mavis came over and Matt was in his "cave".
This movie was about a seriously damaged woman, Mavis, who had a very low self image, looking for someone to love her. She spent a lot of time in high school out in the woods having sex, with boys who probably just wanted her because of how she looked. She was living with Buddy during college, she got pregnant, had a miscarriage that damaged her so she couldn't have kids and they broke up. The man she did marry, divorced her, and she was just about to lose her job. And to top it all off, she was an alcoholic. She was a train wreck, and Beth wasn't helping matters any by shoving the kid she had with Mavis' ex, in her face. What did you think the movie was about?
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
"Because Mavis is still in the highschool-b1tch attitude. She still thinks Sandra is below her."
Also, unless Sandra had enough money saved to rent an apartment, she would have to stay with Mavis.
Good point there about the apartment. Although I think Mavis is a terrible bitch, I can relate to not wanting a near stranger to move in with me. Hell, I don't even want my friends living with me, much less people I barely know. I will make an exception for close family (if it's an emergency), but that's it.
shareExactly.
shareI agree. Other people here are overstating the obligation taking her with does not mean permanent roomie in her apartment.
shareI mean Mavis does not need to take Sandra to her apartment and be roomies, she could just take her in the city(Minneapolis) and Sandra could find her place where to live and make her life of her own.
shareTrue, but then what would be the point of Mavis taking Sandra with her? If Sandra is just looking for transportation to Minneapolis, she could just drive there on her own or buy a bus ticket. It seemed to me that Sandra wanted more from Mavis when she said "take me with you".
I doubt most people watching would really take on much responsibility (being roommates or whatever) for a needy, somwhat creepy near-stranger just because they made some fawning (somewhat creepy) remarks during one conversation.
I agree her rejection works dramatically.
shareTo me, it wasn't that she didn't take her with her that was so hurtful- it was that Mavis said that Sandra belonged where she is -after they both said what a horrible nowhere place it is to be...I thought it was a real put down.
shareI agree.
shareWell, yeah. It was purposefully so. It effectively and efficiently erases all doubt as to the type of person Mavis is. AND, might I add, the type of person Sandra is.
shareTo me, it wasn't that she didn't take her with her that was so hurtful- it was that Mavis said that Sandra belonged where she is -after they both said what a horrible nowhere place it is to be...I thought it was a real put down.
Plus, let's say hypothetically, Mavis does take Sandra. How would that turn out?
Situation A: Sandra replaces Dolce as Mavis's new lapdog, and ends up feeling even more trapped than she already did. Because she gave up her job to come to the Mini Apple with Mavis, she is currently working as Mavis's assistant, cook, and maid until she finds another job to pay back the debt she owes her. Mavis happily takes advantage of the fact that Sandra worships her, and abuses the privilege of living with a push-over. She is currently miserable.
Situation B: Sandra leaves her hometown only to enter a world that's even more complicated and cruel than the one she knew before. Because she is too timid, nobody will hire her. Despite Mavis's half-hearted attempt to fix Sandra up, she still possesses that mousy, unsure, desperate attitude that does not bode well for people in the big city. Thanks to Sandra's effective advice that Mavis did not need to change, Mavis becomes even more selfish and less tolerant from Sandra's constant praise and lack of presence. Mavis eventually tires of Sandra's hopelessness and kicks her out, while finding no need to change anything other than her living situation. They are both currently miserable.
Situation C: With the help of Mavis, Sandra undergoes a complete transformation from the quiet girl next door to the sassy bold it-girl. However, the new notoriety of her status goes to Sandra's head, and she becomes a detestable, narcissistic minion who manages to gain more contempt than Mavis, herself. Sandra turns into nothing but a clone and a calculating bully to the point where even Mavis finds her self-centered. People unfortunate enough to cross her path end up miserable.
Situation D: Sandra gets anything and everything she ever wanted by moving to the Mini Apple with Mavis. Because of the change of scenery, Sandra is also able to make some changes of her own, and she becomes someone respected and admired. She has a kick ass job, a bad ass BFF, a big ass apartment, and a sexy ass boyfriend. Who knew having it all was just so damn easy? She is currently not miserable at all.
Hmmm, i wonder which scenario is the most realistic? I can certainly tell you which one isn't.
This is not the greatest signature in the world. This is just a tribute.
It's MINNEAPOLIS, not the Mini Apple. That went out in the late 80s/early 90s.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
It seemed to me that Sandra wanted more from Mavis when she said "take me with you".
So what's Mavis supposed to do? Take Sandra to downtown Minneapolis and drop her at the corner of 6th and the Nicollet Mall? It's ridiculous to expect a total stranger to take you hundreds of miles to a city in which you have no friends, no relatives, no job and no place to stay. If Sandra wanted to go to the Cities, she could have done that any time she wanted. She was an adult.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
I agree. I did not even think that they would become roomies. Didn't cross my mind. I was thinking just like to "introduce" the city to her.
Big Movie & TV Show Fan http://www.bestflixmovies.com/
Let us NOT forget the screenplay is written by an ex-stripper who gave herself a first name that means The Devil.
sharecanadamelody writes:
"Let us NOT forget the screenplay is written by an ex-stripper who gave herself a first name that means The Devil."
Why is any of this relevant?
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
Irony deficit much !
sharecanadamelody writes:
"Irony deficit much !"
What are you talking about?
How is Diablo Cody's stripper sojourn in any way relevant to why Mavis puts down Sandra?
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
Irony dude ! Her first name being Devil the conversation with the sister and then the punchline...devilish by design and definition.
shareThe only angel in this film is Beth, so I don't see how Diablo's name can be ironic.
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
External to inner film relished sub-text
shareNow you're just using words you've heard other people use in context. Because nothing you're saying is making sense.
The knack to flying lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
So, am I the only one who thinks maybe Sandra had a bit of a boner for Mavis?
@ flurng-1,
You could say it that way.
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
LOL flurng-1.
Of course she did. LOL though I would have put it a little more delicately.
"What happens to a dream deferred?"
No, not at all. Most girls/women with the Follower Mentality, like Sandra, in this Mean Girl/Queen Bee subculture often develop some kind of adoration/obsession that borders on the sexual. So yeah, totally! Lol.
shareBeth???? Oh, come on! Beth is the trouble maker! She's the one who sends Mavis the birth announcement, she sends her drunk husband home with Mavis after the gig (watch Beth as Mavis and Buddy walk away, and she insists Mavis is invited to the baby naming after Mavis kisses Buddy when they get home. (Beth knew about it, it was a small town) She knew Mavis and Buddy dated, most likely knew they lived together in college. She and Mavis weren't friends and it had been 20 since high school. Given all that, why on Earth would Beth do what she did? Beth was NOT an angel, but a psycho beyotch. The only sane and reasonable character was Buddy.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
Canadian... that explains it, eh?
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
What does that have to do with anything? Let's just stick to the movie. Please. It's not exactly fair to judge things we have NO clue about. Geez, I thought that was common decency.
shareSandra convinced Mavis to go back being the way she's always been. Mavis agrees and goes back, and she knows her place and Sandra's.
Sandra symbolizes what is bad about society. We look up to, admire people who would never have anything to do with us. We don't care for equals or people beneath us. We prefer a power arrangement.
Mavis was about to change at the end, climb out of her hole, maybe seek help. But Sandra dragged her back in.
If there's an idiot in this story, it is Sandra.
--
Lady, if you got a complaint, go file it. Otherwise, please, go f--k yourself.
yoda9999 writes:
"If there's an idiot in this story, it is Sandra."
No. I don't think that's the point.
I think the point is that Sandra is like Mavis -- unhappy and stuck in the past.
Diablo may be saying in this scene, that we all have the tendency to be like Mavis -- unhappy and stuck in the past.
And then we choose to do nothing about it.
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
Sandra made me think of E!, the channel. Or TMZ or something. Something that constantly pats people like the Kardashians on the back.
The knack to flying lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
Six-Shooter writes:
"Something that constantly pats people like the Kardashians on the back."
Yes.
Sandra, out of nowhere, fawns all over Mavis.
It's a strange scene.
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
I thought it a strange scene as well. Sandra seems to have nothing but contempt for her at the beginning of the story, and now at the end she's fawning over her. I don't understand.
shareNo, remember how Sandra told Mavis that she'd once put cupcakes in Mavis' locker in high school? Sandra always idolized Mavis.
shareI don't think it's contempt at all. I see it as her trying to poorly hide the fact that she used to adore someone who never even noticed the girl was even alive, and her embarrassment by that fact.
shareIt's not out of nowhere. Sandra had this strange fixation for Mavis when they were in high school. The scene where Mavis first went to see Matt and Sandra opened the door. Sandra recognized her and told her that she snuck some cupcakes in her locker for her birthday. She somehow got the combination from the assistant principal. Mavis looked at her and gave her an awkward "thank you"
They both were crazy.
"What happens to a dream deferred?"
Right.
shareWell it wasn't out of nowhere though. Sandra had been fawning over Mavis since the first scene when she confesses she used to make Rice Krispie treats for her EVERY.DAY and anonymously put them in her locker. This woman, has made her obsession with Mavis known from the very beginning, since high school.
shareIt was her birthday, not EVERY DAY, but you are correct in that she'd been fixated on Mavis since high school. And, unless Sandra and Matt were twins, she and Mavis weren't even in the same class.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
I couldn't agree more.
shareThis is how I felt too. Mavis was on her way to a revelation about her life and behavior and Sandra just encouraged her to keep living out her delusions and stay the way she was before. Sandra is in love with an image of Mavis that is not real, or is at least hugely idealized, and thus encouraged Mavis to believe this image is real.
The reply Sandra got from Mavis was quite appropriate. Sandra encouraged the selfish, self-sentered and mean part of Mavis, and that is definitely someone who sees Sandra as a loser who belongs in a town like Mercury.
The request as I think I've seen other posters mention even if Mavis was a better person honestly was entirely unreasonable.
I mean think about it "take me with you" okay...well I suppose she could have given her a ride to the city then dropped her off on a random street corner...or even in extreme kindness let an almost perfect stranger stay with her for a week or so, but then what would have happened to Sandra? Would she be homeless? Jobless? End up going back home? What would the point be? Honestly if some person I barely knew asked me even if they just gave me an empowering speech about taking me to go live with them and away from their life I probably would have reacted the same way and fled...I mean I may have paused and told her we could be friends if she decided to move but I was not going to let someone I had just begun a friendship come live with me in a small apartment with no job or prospects for her future in the city. Honestly that would be insane...
Mavis is a psychopath that cares about no one but herself. The thought of helping someone else is completely uninteresting to her. Of course the request was unreasonable, but still Mavis couldn't care less about Sandra.
Mavis doesn't even really care about her dog.
I wont take her either. If there's one person who think that mighty of you, why do you want to destroyed it by show them the reality which is far away from it. Mavis knew her life ain't that great(the last scene kinda interpreted it) but she need someone who think that she is far better off, agreeing with everything in her mind. I actually says thank you out loud to Sandra after her speech...
shareBecause Sandra means nothing to her? Who is Sandra after all?
http://premiercritic.blogspot.com
A complete and total stranger, that's who. Mavis didn't know Sandra existed until a day earlier, and they'd had all of ONE conversation, which ended in Sandra begging her to take her away. Yeah, I'm sure you'd take her without even thinking about it, right?
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
Sandra is a nice girl. It takes bitches like Mavis to make it "The Big City." The would eat her alive.
shareExactly. This is the same way of thinking on the show 'The B*tch in Apartment 23' where the brunette is crazy but necessarily so while living in the Big Apple, and tries to teach this to the wide-eyed blonde who thinks NYC is an easy place to live.
I think the screenwriter, and actually the majority of American culture, would agree with everything that Sandra says about Mavis. Happiness for people who are poor and continually dissatisfied with their lives is measured in the things they don't have.
Expensive cars. Nice clothes. Rich toys. Status symbols. ETC.
Mavis for the first time in her life began to question all of that, thinking that the only time she felt something 'real' in her life was back in high school with Buddy. Back when they almost had a family together before her miscarriage. She can't be happy because for her, this 'happiness' is always going to be completely unnattainable to her--
Sandra basically saves her life by keeping her focused on material wealth and shallow happiness for the immediate future.
Matt makes the point that she is a better person now because Mavis is finally looking at Matt (despite him being a cripple) when in highschool (when Mavis was supposedly 'happy' for real) Mavis would never even look Matt's way or remember his name. This is dangerous thinking for Mavis, because if true she would really be a horrible person (which she pretty much is in everyone's eyes in Mercury, MN).
I think at the end Mavis realizes that she needs to stick to a shallow lifestyle in order to survive. She understands that Sandra is 'too good' for that kinda shallow life, which is why she tells her she's "good" in Mercury and shouldn't move. For Sandra she doesn't have the talent to be a b*tch, thus she wouldn't ever have the skills to trick herself into being fulfilled with a fake existence. Besides, she's gonna be alright with Matt there to take care of her in any case.
You have some very interesting ideas about the meaning of life.
shareAt first I thought Mavis should've taken Sandra with her in an effort to expose her to a life she wanted. But then I realized, Sandra is a big girl, if she wanted to go she should go. It's not Mavis's job to live her life.
Having said that, it wasn't Sandra's job to give Mavis a pep talk.
Who's Betty Grable?!share
Sandra is a mouth breathing, dim bulb. She's in her mid 30s, if she had wanted to go to the Cities she would have. Maybe you hadn't noticed, but Mavis didn't "make it". She was a lonely, divorced alcoholic who was about to lose her job. Mavis was more than the stuck up homecoming queen.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
I didn't feel bad for Sandra at all. Mavis was on the verge to change her ways and finally become an adult. Then Sandra filled her head with all that garbage.. so she shouldnt be surprised she got that response from her.
share[deleted]