I was confused about this while watching the CS in which Rose comes out (S4?) At the London house, Carson calls Cora's brother's valet "Mr. Levinson," and doesn't tolerate being "corrected." I remember this - valets being called by their "masters'" last names - being the case in Gosford Park. But it isn't consistent, or Green wouldn't have been called "Green," for example.
Can anyone explain? TIA.
I know this is not on this subject but I have just done a Downton marathon. I do wonder about Julian Fellows, I remember him as a bit actor and then, of course, the splendid Gosford Park. In Downton, he so obviously worships the aristocrats and feels little for the working class but the characters who do so much harm, O'Brian, Barrow and the wicked Edith come out on top. This is so very wrong.
shareIn Downton, he so obviously worships the aristocrats and feels little for the working class but the characters who do so much harm, O'Brian, Barrow and the wicked Edith come out on top. This is so very wrong.
No, I mean wicked Edith.
shareNo, I mean wicked Edith.
Snooping, lying, writing a letter that could have ruined Mary's life and a scandal for the entire family. Mary never told anyone that Edith had written the letter. When Sybil died, Mary did say they should try to love each other.
shareSnooping, lying, writing a letter that could have ruined Mary's life and a scandal for the entire family. Mary never told anyone that Edith had written the letter. When Sybil died, Mary did say they should try to love each other.
When Sybil died, Mary did say they should try to love each other.
In the last I Miss Downton special, Michelle said that when Mary is upset she lashes out blindly, and I've learned to trust intelligent actor's insights into their characters. In this case it was her conflicting feelings about Henry. She's actually said I don't know why I do these things!. What really made it stand out as horrible was the crash in the previous episode--when Mary runs down to the track to see if Henry's been killed, Edith is right beside her, doing exactly what Sybil would do.
Mary needs a bracelet with WWSD on it.
Good point- tomcervo----btw what is a WWSD?
I'm not sure if its because on how the actress portray the character or just Julian Fellow writing sucks. In the last season- when Mary was pissed off that most of the household but her knew of Edith's little girl-- so when Edith was on her way to outclass the family.. right? her title was going to be bigger and she's is going to richer? Mary could not take it
Anyway, after she lashed out like a spiteful spoiled child. She seems sorry only after Tom and her grandmother scolded her. She did not want to look bad in their eyes. She quickly went to London with Anna when she thought she was miscarrying... but she did not even bother to go to London to talk to her sister to try to attempt at an apology. Edith was the bigger person and came to her wedding. The same thing she told her grandmother and Tom she should have told that her only living sister. I was unhappy and I lashed out and I went too far I'm hoping we can get past this somehow in the future or something like that. Mary seems annoyed she had to apologize. UGH I hated the finale ðŸ˜
WWSD - "What Would Sybil Do"
Edith returning for Mary's wedding was another WWSD moment - at least to me.
Also for me, the end scene to S6E8 (Edith watching the children playing in the cemetery, Sybil's grave shown) was part a WWSD nod to Sybil. Somewhat of an Edith "I got it" moment - "I finally grew up" nod to Sybil.
Good call on that; in fact I thought it could have been a very good series finale on its own. She no longer needs a man to complete her life; the shot of Marigold--animated and playful for once--showed that.
shareFor me, Season 6 was Edith's FINALLY growing up - becoming an emotionally mature adult. She finally took on a role of real responsibility with the magazine. She acknowledged full responsibility for her break-up with Bertie when she failed to tell him the truth about Marigold. Although she started Season 6 in a "Poor Edith" mode, she was well past it by Episode 8. Yes, Edith could have continued on sans Bertie at that point. Getting back with Bertie was just the "icing on the cake" for her.
I liked the conversation between Edith & Laura in Episode 8 where Edith admits even she doesn't understand why she & Mary are locked into the negative relationship they have.
Mary's emotional growth in Season 6 seemed minimal compared to Edith's. Violet's advice to Mary to make peace with her sister, then make peace with herself was only partially done by Mary. It took a second "nudge" by Violet to finally put Mary into action.
Finishing S5&6 now--- Julian Fellow really should have other writers help him write the seasons- his writing sucks so much-- The bates yet again have problem with the law. Mary is back to being a spoil brat who loves to play with men emotions and is surprise when people actually worried about Edith state of mind. "Edith is gone so what?" like what kind of sister does that?
There's another thread about characters who were underused and if JF had a writing partners, most characters would have been better develop and the stories would have a tad better. IMO :)
Agree - JF should have had (needed) other writers help him with Seasons 4-6. DA was orignally planned as a 3 season show. JF needed new story arcs for many characters. Some fresh minds with new ideas might have helped.
Once Sybil & Matthew were killed off, it felt like he was just muddling through with the story line for Mary, Tom, the Bates as well as Edith. For me, Edith was more a secondary character in the first few seasons, needed for the Pamuk letter bit, but pushed forward after Sybil's death.
For lack of new ideas, we got 2 drawn out seasons of Bates/Green, Tom dithering about leaving, Mary & her suitors, and Edith/Drewes/Motherhood. The Edith/Gregson/London in early Season 4 was good, but you just knew it was predictably doomed (Poor Edith).
The first fresh material in Season 6 that I enjoyed was Edith in London - FINALLY taking over running The Sketch and her scenes with Laura & Audrey. Yes, JF gave the sisters their end-game romances with some obstacles & angst thrown in, but still had no clue what to do with Tom. I found Tom as the "third wheel" with Mary/Henry cringe-worthy. And after all the talk about leaving Downton and buying an Inn, the Bates pregnancy story line was miscarriage angst with them staying and the baby in the Downton nursery?
I liked the conversation between Edith & Laura in Episode 8 where Edith admits even she doesn't understand why she & Mary are locked into the negative relationship they have.Laura works for Edith, but it's nowhere near the same relationship as Mary and Anna. Laura is much more of an equal to Edith, and a valuable employee, so she's freer to speak her mind--Edith's obviously told her the story about Mary spilling the beans, though we don't know how much of the truth she knows. Mary seems to be the second thing that Edith's friends learn about her; Bertie seemed alert to some of Mary's snippishness at a family gathering.
I agree with you, but guess I wasn't that clear about the conversation between Edith & Laura. I got the impression that Edith was very tired of the negative, sniping dynamic between she & Mary. How it keeps dragging on and is such a waste of time & energy, but not sure how to get past it or at least reach a detente. Leading, I guess, to Edith's return for Mary's wedding and her offering of an "olive branch" via her private "We're Sisters" speech/conversation with Mary. Edith's WWSD at that moment.
Yes, the Mary/Anna friendship is different than Edith/Laura. Plus, Mary/Anna evolved over 6 seasons within an aristocratic household versus Edith/Laura over a few scenes in 4(?) episodes in The Sketch workplace. However, it was nice to see that Edith finally had a friend to bounce things off other then Rosamund or Violet.
How it keeps dragging on and is such a waste of time & energy, but not sure how to get past it or at least reach a detente.
I got the impression that Edith was very tired of the negative, sniping dynamic between she & Mary.
I never intended this to become a Mary vs Edith debate. I just answered what WWSD meant. I am not a "rabid" fan of either sister. They're both interesting characters (at times), but JF seemed more in a rut with Mary's story and character the last few seasons.
It just seemed to me in looking back on Season 6 that Edith had a couple WWSD moments/scenes. Mary finally had a WWSD re Edith when she got around to fixing things for Edith/Bertie but it took some prodding by Violet to finally get Mary to move in that direction.
Mary finally had a WWSD re Edith when she got around to fixing things for Edith/Bertie but it took some prodding by Violet to finally get Mary to move in that direction.
or how a character like Mary should have blossom and mature but revert back to the same immature person.I put it down to the way she got into the rut of immaturity by playing around with the three suitors, nice young men whose attentions she enjoyed, but that she really didn't take seriously. That immaturity carried over to her relationship with Edith--to be fair, Robert and Cora weren't exactly paying much attention to Edith.
As the French would say, it was worse than a crime--it was a blunder. Mary had nothing to lose by Edith's great marriage, and everything to gain in the family sense: more prestige by association, a very useful connection for George, and even herself; now she'd be involved in the social circles of another county, and meet more eligible men.
She'd lose only in the infantile nursery war of childhood, but that was all that mattered to her then.
or Green wouldn't have been called "Green," for example.
I completely missed their being called what you explain! And actually, I meant to make part of my question about whether this was a custom used when the family was away from home; it seems that it may have been. Thanks!
shareI meant to make part of my question about whether this was a custom used when the family was away from home; it seems that it may have been.yes. i read somewhere in my research that this was indeed the custom at the big weekend estate parties when there were lots of guests... all servants were called by the surnames of their (ahem) "masters", in order to help keep straight which servants 'belonged' to which aristocrats.
O'Brien would have been MISS Grantham. Ms did not exist in those days.
http://currentscene.wordpress.com
Miss isn't the same as Ms in England? They both refer to an unmarried woman or young lady in America. I'd be interested to know the differences as Mrs Hughes/Pattmore are unmarried but are still given the title that we Americans would give to indicate a married woman. (I'm assuming their titles are more to do with their position?)
shareMiss isn't the same as Ms in England? They both refer to an unmarried woman or young lady in America.
Ms applies to any woman who does not wish to have her status defined by her relationship to a man.
The difference in Ms. or Miss in England and the US is irrelevant here, as the term Ms. came into use in the 1970s/1980s.
In the USA, Ms. originally was used when a woman did not want her title to reflect her marital status. It's now used by default for basically all women who are not doctors or judges or the like.
Carson did want to keep with the old ways/what he was used to. However, I got the impression that with Mr Levinson's valet it was that he didn't understand English ways vs something that was an old way of doing things at the time.
shareNo man is a hero to his valet--disputed origin
http://www.thisdayinquotes.com/2010/08/no-man-is-hero-to-his-valet-backstory.html
nb: The complete inanity of my (original) title for this thread has finally dawned on me. The answer, of course, is "You call him a valet." My thanks to those who graciously avoided pointing this out!
I'm gonna need more Stevia.