Rate Mary's Suitors


Besides Matthew (since most people would chose him), how would you rate the people whom were interested in Mary? Evelyn Napier, Charles Blake, Anthony Gillingham, Henry Talbot.
For me it'd be
1.Blake- He was different from all the rest and could challenge her.
2.Talbot-I don't think a lot of people saw the connection,but I thought they were a good match. With him, she had someone who she could take care of as much as he would take care of her,
3.Napier- too soft for her. He would probably look the best on paper, but would end up being boring.
-100. Gillingham- Lord almighty, I hated Tony Gillingham. Dude, just make up your bloody mind! Stop stringing along poor Mabel Lane Fox and most certainly stop asking people to marry you after two days less than a year after their husband died.

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To be complete honest, i found all of them boring, after Matthew all of them seemed to be a male version of Mary, and the worst thing is that any of them seems to have any respect of themselves. Any man in that period, woudnt take that a woman could talk or sometimes directly insult them like Mary did; we are talking about a country who lost a lot of men in the war, and in the upper classes the lost was worse; so, any man of the upper middle classes or even a broken aristocrat would have been catch, in fact they could have easily pick any woman, more younger, beautiful and rich than Mary.

Even if JF tried to sell us Mary as the ultimate woman, at least Matthew Crawley had some respect for himself and didnt allow to be played. The rest: Napier, Gillingham, Blake and Talbot were too bland, any of them didnt challenge Mary or plain tell her that her behaviour was enough. The break up with Talbot was a dissaster, the man simply leaves her then with a mere telegram came back, at least, the poor dull Bertie Pelham exposed his reasons to Edith when he broke with her and showed integrity.

But anyway, maybe, but i think that the most decent among those men was Evelyn Napier, he was down to earth and not so arrogant like the rest of them. If they had allowed the character of Mary evolve from a spoiled brat of season 1 to a mature woman with a child it could have been a serious relation betwen Mary and Napier, but when they decided that Mary would behave like a teenager in her 30´s, Napier would no longer be "the one", because she needed a teenage boyfriend.

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They were all to good for her.

Slainte 🇮🇪 I am who I am your approval isnt needed or required.




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It's been discussed far below, but Evelyn Napier, Charles Blake, Anthony Gillingham all had a fatal flaw--all three were titled or heirs to a title, who expected a wife who would devote herself to their estates and their dynasty. Mary would have been expected to move to their estate and start producing heirs, which then meant trying for at least one boy and preferably two. Mary was in her mid-thirties--did she really want to pregnant for the next few years, or longer? Did she want to leave Downton, or put George's future to one side?

Talbot had no such expectations, and he could easily support Mary's dynastic ambitions. His children would inherit no titles or estates, other than the one he could hope to leave them himself. (In season 5 his aunt says of him that his funds are adequate but not overwhelming.) As we've seen, he's not afraid of work.

I'm not sure I ever saw any of the other three interacting with George, whereas Henry had the great scene in the office with George in his lap (I'm WOOOKING) and then sat him easily on his shoulders. A good stepfather is a special kind of hero; ironic that both sisters seem to lucked into one.

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Wasn't there a scene where it was revealed that Tony's family had to lease out their main house to a girls school and move into the dower house? If so, he probably would have gladly moved to Downton to live with Mary! Otherwise, very good points.

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Given that the Dower house would have looked a lot like Violet's or Isabel's house--he wasn't exactly living rough, and like everyone including Robert said, no one lived in that prewar style anymore. Tony very wisely sold the house and kept the land. You can build a new house, but no one ever got the land back once it was sold.

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Yes but he would still have no great house that he could expect Mary to move into and run. So much easier for him to move into Downton than a suitor who still had a great house that needed runners by.

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The only reason I was disappointed with Mary's choice of Henry Talbot was because he didn't have too much money. I always thought that Mary is the kind who would ensure that she marries someone with plenty of money (and preferably a title) because she knows that it's the only kind of lifestyle that suits her. Marrying Henry made her a little less "practical", which was one of her most appealing characteristics in my eyes.

That said, perhaps the fact that Mary now has a real "job" and her own independent wealth means that she is less interested in marrying money than she used to be in Series 1 and 2. As I have said elsewhere, marrying either Gillingham or Blake would have taken her away from the estate and probably led to Downton's sale in the future. Talbot was the only one she could keep on the estate.

Otherwise, in terms of personality, intelligence and looks, I think Talbot was perfect for Mary.

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The only reason I was disappointed with Mary's choice of Henry Talbot was because he didn't have too much money. I always thought that Mary is the kind who would ensure that she marries someone with plenty of money (and preferably a title) because she knows that it's the only kind of lifestyle that suits her. Marrying Henry made her a little less "practical", which was one of her most appealing characteristics in my eyes.

His aunt said that is means were "adequate but not overwhelming", which I take to mean he never had to work. Based on his means as seen--able to afford expensive cars, good clothes, club membership--he was living at the Bertie Wooster level of lifestyle, and far better off than Bertie Pelham.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk7pk58Bq4Q
He didn't bring a fortune to the marriage, but he was not a fortune hunter.

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His aunt said that is means were "adequate but not overwhelming", which I take to mean he never had to work. Based on his means as seen--able to afford expensive cars, good clothes, club membership--he was living at the Bertie Wooster level of lifestyle, and far better off than Bertie Pelham.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk7pk58Bq4Q
He didn't bring a fortune to the marriage, but he was not a fortune hunter.
True, but the fact that Mary chose him instead of someone wealthier shows that her outlook had changed on what made a good marriage.

Henry is also quite resourceful, as we see him set up a second-hand car dealing business with Tom. Given that both of them love the job, I can imagine that the business will become very successful and be a good source of income.

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True, but the fact that Mary chose him instead of someone wealthier shows that her outlook had changed on what made a good marriage.
I don't think she would have ever married solely for money or position; that was Henry's mistake. She was comfortable with the three suitors because they didn't inspire a really deep feeling in her. She did feel that way about Henry, and that was what frightened her, as much or more than Henry's racing career. (I wouldn't be surprised if there were more riding deaths, especially hunting, than racing deaths in the 20's)
Henry is also quite resourceful, as we see him set up a second-hand car dealing business with Tom. Given that both of them love the job, I can imagine that the business will become very successful and be a good source of income.
Given what we know about the actual fates of the great estates after the wars, that business has a better chance of thriving than the three suitors' estates.

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We're about to head into the depression....

I don't think anyone can reasonably weigh the odds of one man's estate surviving over another man's embryo second hand car business. Neither Tom or Henry have shown any ability or knowledge to successfully operate a business and the failure rate for new businesses have always been extremely high. Meanwhile plenty of large estates survived, to this day there are thousands of country estates all over Britain still owned by their families. Many times the house went but the estate remained in private hands.

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The drift of the show has always been to demonstrate how precarious these estates are. When it first appeared, this was in the York Press, the area's big paper.
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/features/features/8454627.So_where_is_Downton_Abbey_/

Then he has a thought. Downton Abbey is set in 1912. So is there, perhaps, a great country house that, between then and now, has been pulled down – and that perhaps inspired the Downton Abbey of the programme?

He consults a book: Lost Houses Of York And The North Riding, by Edward Waterson and Peter Meadows. There are a couple of possibilities, he says: Thirkleby Hall near Thirsk, the magnificent country seat of the Frankland Family, was one. The family didn’t survive the First World War, the estate was sold in 1919, and the great house fell into disrepair. It was bought by an American in 1927, who took the splendid Italianate façade to the United States. The rest of the house was demolished.

Another possible candidate, Trevor says, might have been Wood End near Thornton-le-Street, one time home of the Earl of Cathcart. It was eventually sold, in 1921, to a group of “farmers, timber merchants and antique dealers” known collectively as the “forty thieves” because they gradually dismantled the house.

Another vanished stately home, if a little further afield, is Warter Priory at, well, Warter. Once the home of Lord Nunburnholme, it fell into disrepair and was, sadly, demolished after the last of its contents were sold at auction in May, 1972. An old photograph of the Priory reveals a large, square-built building with corner spires: very much in the character of the Downton Abbey we see on-screen.

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Better off than Bertie Pelham?

When Bertie inherited the Hexham title he was described as a millionaire (in prewar dollars, that meant serious money). And the great castle and art collections.

I always got the impression that Henry Talbot was a respectable gentleman of independent means, allowing him to live comfortably enough with his clubs and activities without having to work, but he was no possessor of great wealth.

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I think that they were comparing Bertie Pelham (as agent) vs Henry Talbot; i dont know how much money an estate agent could earn, but once i saw a book about english estates, and in one of the pages was a picture and information the estate agent "cottage", it was similar in size and style to the place in wich Isobel lived. So we can assume that by being the estate agent of a place like Brancaster (Alnwick estate) Bertie didnt earn a pittance. The problem is that we were so "familiar" with the lives of the upstairs characters in Downton that we almost think of them as "middle class" and everybody else, besides the servants, as poor people.

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I meant the agent Bertie, of course. Absolutely similar status in background and upbringing to Henry, other than their obvious city/country divide, but Bertie has to work--at a very nice job--and Henry doesn't. Atticus hinted at a hard-luck story. He was in the regular army until his father died, and I thought that meant that his father supplemented his army pay with money from an income or legacy that died with him. Mary thought he'd be out of a job when the Marquis died, instead of what actually happened.

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