MovieChat Forums > Exit Through the Gift Shop (2010) Discussion > The evidence

The evidence

posted 14 years ago by quxeot
16 replies | jump to latest

I understand why people think it's a hoax, since when I started watching, some things about just didn't seem to ring true, and I was quite convinced that it was another mockumentary in the style of Forgotten Silver. But then as I looked into it, there really is quite bit of evidence confirming that events depicted in the movie really happened.

For one, we see film footage of a clearly much younger Thierry Guetta

Here jtbvt looks at one piece of archival footage filmed in 2000 and confirms that it was filmed some time before 2003, and probably at the time it is claimed to have been filmed at.
http://jbtvt.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/hello-world/

The article links to a post of someone confirming that Thierry Guetta did in fact own a vintage clothing shop
http://banksysforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=film&thread=1099&page=2#20583

You can use the Wayback Machine and confirm that on Space Invaders' website he thanks Thierry back in 2000
http://web.archive.org/web/20010602112345/www.space-invaders.com/hollywood.html

As someone else on the forum mentioned, there is a Trailer for the movie Life Remote Control, posted on youtube in 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiLaaZjcgWc

There is news coverage of the Banksy stunt at Disneyland from 2006
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5335400.stm

There are articles on the Mr Brainwash show from the LA Weekly in 2008. This article confirms that he in fact broke his foot.
http://www.laweekly.com/2008-06-12/art-books/mr-brainwash-bombs-l-a/

Sparrow Songs looked through much of Thierry's old footage and can confirm it is real.
http://sparrowsongs.wordpress.com/2010/04/22/thierry-guetta-is-real/

Shepard Fairey confirms that the movie is not a hoax and explains that he want to get access to all the footage of himself that Thierry filmed
http://www.vanityfair.com/online/oscars/2010/04/shepard-fairey-swears-to-god-the-banksy-movie-is-not-a-hoax.html

Feel free to mention any other evidence you can find. There might be more going on behind the scenes about Banksy helping to transform this eccentric frenchman into a popular artist, but Thierry is definitely a real person and details about his life and the events depicted can be confirmed.

[–] JayCeezy 14 years ago

Actually, I had a bit of evidence to the contrary.
1) If Thierry was filming Banksy's stunt at Disneyland (which I do remember happening in the news at the time), and was detained by Disneyland security (which did happen, I have a friend who works part-time in security in the Anaheim Magic Kingdom), and Thierry deleted all the evidence on his camera as he stated...then...how is it that we see video of Banksy installing his street art, and making his getaway? Where is that footage from?
2) Some of the "reporters" at MBW's art show do not show up on google, in particular the blond woman and the guy who had both "4" and "9" channels identified on different sides of his microphone.

Anyway, interesting. Real street artists are about spectacle, and it would seem to be something fun, and a point to make, by participating in a hoax/prank. Cheers.

[–] gnome-5 14 years ago

1) This has already been addressed elsewhere. Thierry worked with more than one camera, and the actions he described, "pushing a button and deleting everything," simply doesn't work for a videocamera shooting on mini-DV tapes. So he shot the stunt, stashed that tape, and for the security guards he pulled out a still camera and deleted the memory card.

2) Hadn't noticed that. Will have to watch it again.

"Real street artists are about spectacle, and it would seem to be something fun, and a point to make, by participating in a hoax/prank."

I would say that Banksy is more about social commentary than spectacle, and his pieces tend to point out the bitter truth about something, rather than hoax.

[–] JayCeezy 14 years ago

Yes, as I said, "a point to make."

The videocamera footage showed Thierry making his 'getaway', but where could he have stashed it when the security was following him? How could he have retrieved it? With all the cameras which are EVERYWHERE at Disneyland, it would be pretty clear that Thierry had a videocamera with him, and what would be the purpose of a still camera (especially when he didn't use one on any of his other adventures)? Thierry's 'explanation' does not meet the smell test.

As long as you are going to watch it again, check out the "police" in Hollywood where the officers ask Thierry to leave. The "police car" is not a police car at all, and the "uniforms" are not police issue (it is a felony to impersonate a member of the armed services or law enforcement). Also, there is a nametag of the primary "officer" and it is clearly visible; I can't recall it exactly, but something like "J. Schiedt" which might be phonetically interpreted (first name Jack?). I do recall seeing the name and laughing.

Also, the "police van" and the "officers" wearing orange vests while street artist Shepard was supposedly "arrested" (while Thierry was instructed to film from a distance, so he wouldn't attract attention). That is worth a second look, it didn't meet the smell test.

I don't mean to deconstruct this thing, or take any fun out of it. I take it for what it is. How much of it is true doesn't really matter. The message(s) in layers are all valid.

[–] Matt_Layden 14 years ago

That's the art behind filmmaking. You never see him get grabbed, he only says it. So when he says he was walking away and they show a clip of him walking, chances are that wasn't at the moment he was taken.

http://onefilmadayreview.blogspot.com/

[–] gnome-5 14 years ago

"With all the cameras which are EVERYWHERE at Disneyland, it would be pretty clear that Thierry had a videocamera with him,"

Okay, I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean... because everyone at Disneyland has a video camera, Thierry has to have a video camera?

"and what would be the purpose of a still camera (especially when he didn't use one on any of his other adventures)? Thierry's 'explanation' does not meet the smell test."

During the Disney sequence, he specifically says after Banksy left that "I'm filming and taking pictures" over a still image of a woman taking a photo of the Gitmo figure (I wonder if she got questioned too?).

When he first starts pasting up his "man with a camera" image, he sets up a video camera with a wide view of him and a helper at work. At one point, someone takes a photo and you see a flash go off. Later, in the same wide shot, you see the still camera sitting on the ledge in front of the video camera.

There are also a number of still images of the phone booth installation. And Thierry's wife talks about how he uses his still camera the same way as his video camera (constantly shooting).

As for the details of his escape, who knows? Maybe he stashed the tape before he noticed security starting to close in.

"The "police car" is not a police car at all, and the "uniforms" are not police issue (it is a felony to impersonate a member of the armed services or law enforcement)."

At 12:32, they show a legitimate police car driving up and stopping, and one of the officers is in a normal uniform. The guy whose last name is "SCHEIDT" (no "J") is wearing a jacket with a badge on it but it's hard to see the way he's standing.

At 18:30, the officers wearing the vests look like parking cops or something. When the NYPD van pulls up, there's a dissolve and they disappear. At no time is Fairy arrested in that scene. Since all he was doing was setting up his ladder, they probably had no idea what he was up to.

There's nothing remotely suspicious about either of those.

[–] JayCeezy 14 years ago

Sorry, I implied ...all the SECURITY cameras which are EVERYWHERE... but should have included the word 'security' to avoid confusion.

The police car appears to be 20 years old, and police van at least 30 years old (Econoline) and do not have City or Agency seals. It seemed like a very clever way to appear to be official law enforcement, without impersonating law enforcement. LAPD uniforms are navy blue. Did you think it odd that "the officers wearing vests look like parking cops or something"? What are they doing at either end of Fairey's attempt to put up his art using a ladder, with a van? What are they doing there on the sidewalk? What is 'the dissolve' all about? Interesting that they would not be there when Fairey tells Thierry to go across the street to film because he would attract attention while he put up his art, then two "parking cops or something" show up in a "police van" and are in frame whie Fairey is on the ladder.

Nothing remotely suspicious? If you say so...

Anyway, great fun and a great movie. Art and commerce, not such strange bedfellows after all...

[–] gnome-5 14 years ago

The first scene (with Scheidt) does show a standard police car with a seal on the door. The area they were in looked a little more like West Hollywood than Hollywood, but it's hard to tell. That might account for the uniforms being different.

In the second scene, the cops in the vests are already there when he's putting up the ladder, then the van pulls up. Dissolve. The vest cops are gone, but the van is still there. Fairey falls off the ladder, but the driver of the van doesn't seem to notice. End scene. If it was staged, then they hired a van, actors and uniforms for nothing.

And yes, it is a great movie. Today was my third viewing. Still lots of little details to catch...

[–] bizmanbasso 14 years ago

In the film, banksy said that Thierry hid the tape in his sock.

Not everything is uploaded to the internet.

[–] JayCeezy 14 years ago

Gimme a break. 'he hid the tape in his sock'?!?!!

Does tha sound even remotely possible? There are cameras and security people all over Thierry, yet he is so sly that he HIDES A VIDEOTAPE IN HIS SOCK?!?!!

I have no further questions.

[–] gnome-5 14 years ago

"Does tha sound even remotely possible? There are cameras and security people all over Thierry, yet he is so sly that he HIDES A VIDEOTAPE IN HIS SOCK?!?!!"

Yes, it's possible. It's possible that he switched out the tape before he started shooting stills, which apparently was before security arrived.

And -- are there security cameras everywhere in Disneyland? If so, they are very well hidden.

[–] steve_n88 14 years ago

They said it in the film "he stashed the tape in his sock", if what your saying about Disney Land having cameras everywhere than surely they would've caught Thierry being more involved with Banksy or at least entering with him. So obviously they don't have that many cameras if they had no evidence to detain him. Honestly no evidence you have, unless you were there or something can really prove that he was detained by Disney Land or not, but its obvious something did happen, especially if, like some of you were saying, it was on the news. I think its hilarious that everyone is trying to prove a hoax and claim things like "there's cameras all over Disney Land" like you work there or something, when you obviously don't know s h i t.

[–] philZman 14 years ago

So maybe Thierry exaggerated (or lied) about the Disney incident. I don't see how this is proof that the whole thing is fake.

Thierry seems to be one of those guys that says pompous things and blows stuff out of proportion. Could be that in the interview... Maybe they just asked him a few questions and left him alone...

I don't see how the Disney incident's veracity can prove the movie's authenticity, really.

[–] bizmanbasso 14 years ago

I think that artists WANT it to be fake, they want to believe that banksy is pulling a sheet over their eyes. In reality I don't think this is the case. I think the film portrays exactly what true art is compared to fake art. True art is the thought-provoking pieces that were displayed around town. The fake art was Thierry's art show, this quickly put together event that made a bunch of money. It shows the contrast between the two. He set up this art show to become somebody, to make money and feel like an artist, which he wasn't really. Gift shops sell the same *beep* you've seen before but on cups, and hats, and shirts, and buttons, and mini sculptures and postcards, etc. Which was similar to his art show, these pieces that didn't have much depth, just this illusion of interest in order to make a name for himself and a few bucks in his pocket. Hints the name, Exit Through The Gift Shop.

[–] conedust 13 years ago

You're misunderstanding the joke in the film's title. "Gift shop" doesn't equal fake art. All real museums have gift shops. Real art - whatever we take to be "real art" - justifies its cultural significance and value in many ways but almost always winds up being sold as a commodity, too. It's the sale of art as a commodity that makes art as culture possible, after all. Originals are sold to rich collectors while knock-offs and trinkets are offered to the rest of us in the gift shops through which we inevitably exit. I could go out this afternoon and buy a bunch of Banksy-branded swag if I wanted to: shirts, prints, books, etc. Same goes for Shepard Fairey/OBEY, Kaws, Neckface, ces53, etc. Art is a racket, and the racket is predicated on the shared belief that certain art-objects are intrinsically more important (and thus more valuable) than others, that some deserve to be specially privileged as "real art" or "good art" or whatever.

It's true that the Mr. Brainwash show reduces the museum to just its gift shop, that it celebrates the celebrity-artist and the marketable art-commodity as ends in themselves. In this sense, it's a cheap travesty, a mockery of "real art." We might even call it an act of crass vandalism staged against the aesthetics and philosophies of street art. But once we see that, it's hard not to admire Thierry and his shameless self-promotion, regardless of what we take to be his intentions and/or artistic abilities. If art and celebrity are merely social games that people use to elevate the apparent importance of this or that commodity in the minds of others, then what's wrong with the fact that Thierry so successfully gamed the game, gamed the gamers?

You must have been so afraid, Cassie... Then you saw a cop.

[–] Maxivid 13 years ago

That doesn't prove that the all mister Brainwash and its success is not an hoax.
It would make sense that in order to make this stunt believable they would mix reality and fiction.
Thierry is a real character and most of what is said about his life is probably true, to a certain extend, as to give credibility to the rest of the movie.

[–] bsharporflat 13 years ago

These last few posts are good and accurately explain the movie to those more easily duped.