MovieChat Forums > Pretty Little Liars (2010) Discussion > Marlene VS Trump

Marlene VS Trump

posted 8 years ago by jas-heron17
31 replies | jump to latest

Okay. Here's the think. Up front and honest I'm Canadian. So I've been watching this time bomb happen from a safer lands the last few months. But Marlene is driving me insane.

She is a very open lesbian. I totally get the hate for trump. Hell I hate him and I'm lucky enough to have an amazing prime minister. However, the tweets lately have been a bit much. Especially for someone who is trying to desperately get people to tune into her new show.

Saying she essentially hates trump voters and that they live on a different planet, never to be forgiven ? As someone who says PLL fans need to be open minded, accept couples and situations that they may not be comfortable with and here she is spewing hate.

I guarantee some people were uncomfortable with the Emily/ Paige/ Ali situation. And even more we're upset with the charlotte storyline. And yet to Marlene, people who didn't like these storylines were homophobic, transphobic etc. These people needed to open their minds and accept others live style choices.

Kinda hypocritical, no ?

[–] bobcat667 8 years ago

a lot of people are hypocritical in this sense. its a 'well im me, so i must be right, so when i hate others its justified, but when they hate others, its not'. its pretty common desu. And were all guilty of it to some degree. I Try to be open minded because I have had homophobic friends and family (depending on your definition). ive had arguments with strangers who were homophobes that ended up becoming rather deep conversations and in rare cases friendships.

open mindedness goes both ways. acceptance goes both ways.

*when life gives you lemons*
Sara: are you a sour lemon?

[–] perfect_lover2012 8 years ago

Yeah I really don't want to be close minded so I try my best to see every situation from different perspectives. It can be difficult but worth the effort for the most part. I won't even dive into my opinions on the election but I will say that the day I found out I felt out of place not as if anyone was making me uncomfortable but I truly felt uneasy in my own body and living my own life. I was on autopilot and I don't want to relive that again.

"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children

[–] Jenn_Sassles 8 years ago

Thank you!

I understand why people hate Trump as well, he's an a$$ and behaves like a child.

That being said, don't preach love and togetherness, then turn around and be very hateful. It's extremely hypocritical.

This has been driving me nuts among many celebrities lately.

Edit: Semi-related side note, I also get annoyed when people say only racists voted against Obama or for Trump. Sure that's the case with some people, but certainly not all.

[–] marinaalexis-87074 8 years ago

Eh, just because Marlene is in the entertainment industry and has a large fanbase doesn't mean she's not a person who's allowed to have her own viewpoints and opinions on politics. She can say whatever she wants just like Trump can spew his hateful rhetoric all over his own twitter.

And I have no problem stating that I have a deep disdain for anyone who voted for Trump or supports his views on civil rights. I have no respect for anyone who feels that everyone should not be treated equally. Sorry, but I don't tolerate intolerance and I'm not going to be open-minded towards people who are close-minded themselves.

I do agree with you completely that sometimes Marlene can really fly off the handle, though. If you didn't like the Charlotte reveal that means you're transphobic? Wtf?! I think that's a result of her desire to defend her awful writing choices no matter what the cost, instead of admitting that she made a mistake or that she understands others' opinions regarding her decisions.

[–] perfect_lover2012 8 years ago

I do agree with you completely that sometimes Marlene can really fly off the handle, though. If you didn't like the Charlotte reveal that means you're transphobic? Wtf?! I think that's a result of her desire to defend her awful writing choices no matter what the cost, instead of admitting that she made a mistake or that she understands others' opinions regarding her decisions.

Yes like her refusal to admit that she messed up the flashback during the Cece reveal and after prodding from multiple interviewers and tons of fans she finally said that they may have made an error. I also think we can make a semi strong argument for subtle homophobia and faux feminism in some of her writing so she could be careful throwing certain words around.

"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children

[–] happyphantom9 8 years ago

Agreed. Trump voters don't deserve respect. If you were active in ensuring this monster got elected to be our President, then it goes far beyond "accepting different opinions".

And if people disliked the lesbian story lines purely on the basis of disliking same-sex relationships being depicted on television - well, then, that is the definition of homophobia! You are allowed to have your opinion on homosexuality, but don't get upset at being called a homophobe if that's what you are.

[–] MuggleFan 8 years ago

Trump is a buffoon, I can't stand him. He's racist and talks down to women. I'm ashamed that he's taking office. I hope he's impeached. I honestly think he's mentally unbalanced.

Like how a single word
Can make a heart open.
This is my fight song.

[–] jas-heron17 8 years ago

I 100% agree.

[–] MuggleFan 8 years ago

I just saw his approval rating it at 40%. No president had that low of an approval going into office. Trump said that the rating system is rigged. UGH! That's going to be his go to line. During the election, if he was losing in the polls, he said that polls were rigged. When he was winning, I guess it wasn't rigged. He said he's not listening to the CIA Intelligence reports, and he's all buddy buddy with Russia. Way to go, Comrade Trump, way to go.

Like how a single word
Can make a heart open.
This is my fight song.

[–] minicii 8 years ago

"Comrade Trump." My eyes just rolled all the way back into hell.
Putin and Trump are far-right demagogues, not communists. This red-baiting is intellectually dishonest. If you're genuinely concerned about the people who are going to suffer under the Trump administration, consider dropping the McCarthyite nonsense and actually focusing on the issues that matter.

As for Marlene, are you seriously suggesting that people ought to be accepting of a flagrantly racist guy with neofascist tendencies who glorifies sexual assault & his supporters the same way that they ought to be accepting of the LGBT community, OP? Yikes... MK has every right to express her outrage.

[–] MuggleFan 8 years ago

Trump is buddy buddy with Putin. It's not nonsense, but it's just my opinion. :O)

Like how a single word
Can make a heart open.
This is my fight song.

[–] minicii 8 years ago

Yeah, they seem to have more respect for each other than previous US and Russian heads of state. Doesn't change the fact that neither Putin nor Trump is a communist, which is what you were implying. That's not a matter of opinion.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] vafla9 8 years ago

I really dislike Trump and think his behavior represents so many things that are wrong with our society, however I don't really think that Marlene has the highest horse to fall from when it comes to accepting criticism or the representation of LGBT characters. Yes, we have Emily, but she is shown pining after someone who used her and treated her like crap. I have known many a cases where an Ali-like character takes advantages of a closeted best friend who is very obviously in love with them but I have not known any case where those people end up falling in love with one another. And even though Emily has been a rather positive queer character from time to time, when it comes to the representation of other LGBT characters it's nothing short of atrocious. Pretty Little Liars has killed more queer characters than any other show on air, not to mention that the way they wrote the Cece reveal they made the fact that she's transgender seem like a part of the reason why Cece was evil.
So before she spends all her energy criticizing Trump maybe she should start by making sure that she is not enforcing toxic stereotypes which in turn reinforce negative ideas that people have about minorities.

[–] Alysra1011 8 years ago

I'm confused...PLL only killed Maya, who was bi and CeCe who was trans. That isn't a lot.

[–] White_Kingsley 8 years ago

Sara Harvey
Maya St. G
Charlotte
Shana
Ali for like a hot sec

I get what the person above is saying. If Marlene cared all that much about LBGT rights then it should be reflected in her show. Sure Emily is gay and no one really makes a big deal about it, but Emily has also had a revolving door of lovers. Her sex scenes never get the same treatment as lets say Spoby or Ezria and she's in love with someone, whom we still don't know if they are bi or what?

Marlene seems a little hypocritical on that part and I don't know if it's poor writing or their hands being tied because of Freeform formally ABC family.

Peace, Love, and Soul 

[–] vafla9 8 years ago

I can be understanding how the show has their hands tied when it comes to the sex scenes. After all it has been proven that LGBT sex scenes get a higher rating than cis het ones. That could be why they will often resort to metaphores (water, black and white dreams, etc.)
But that doesn't excuse treating the queer characters like disposable crap. The only reason why they made Sara gay or bi for a hot second was so that her betrayal would sting more, seeing how she had gotten romantically involved with one of the Liars. Ironically this plan was both incredibly transparent and an utter failure. Even with Emily being one of the few queer characters in the show that gets to be three dimensional I always get the feeling that they treat her romantic life more as a plot device while the other relationships get treated with more respect.

[–] White_Kingsley 8 years ago

I agree 100%. Especially about Emily's love life at being nothing more than plot devices. Even with Paige, they were together the longest but most of the time, their relationship centered around whatever was happening that episode. This happened with the other relationships but not as much as it happened with Emily's.

I can see why Marlene's hatred of Donald Trump and what he represents (which is warranted) in my opinion may come off as hypocritical. There have been some things that's happened on PLL with LGBT and people of color that always has me like 😠

Yes all of those feelings.

Peace, Love, and Soul 

[–] vafla9 8 years ago

Even with Paige, they were together the longest but most of the time, their relationship centered around whatever was happening that episode. This happened with the other relationships but not as much as it happened with Emily's.

And as soon as she stopped being useful for the plot and they were done kissing and making up she got shipped right off. This has never happened with the boyfriends. They get to hang around plenty eating pie and being love-dovey. But no, they had to get Emily single again so she could date whatever injured bird came flying through her window.
And how she treats people of color on this show, don't even get me started. They either get killed (Maya, Shana) or just plain disappear (Eddie Lamb). I guess Emily being Filipino and gay is all the representation they think they need. It's almost as if they think that if the show had more than one queer or colored character Rosewood would just burst at the seams.
If Marlene wants to battle Trumps kind she could start by representing LGBT and people of color as concrete, complex human beings.

[–] White_Kingsley 8 years ago

And as soon as she stopped being useful for the plot and they were done kissing and making up she got shipped right off. This has never happened with the boyfriends. They get to hang around plenty eating pie and being love-dovey. But no, they had to get Emily single again so she could date whatever injured bird came flying through her window.

 I thought I was the only one who noticed this. If the focus is going to be on the relationships, then Emily should've had the same equal treatment as the 'straight' couples and that is right at Marlene's feet.

And how she treats people of color on this show, don't even get me started. They either get killed (Maya, Shana) or just plain disappear (Eddie Lamb). I guess Emily being Filipino and gay is all the representation they think they need. It's almost as if they think that if the show had more than one queer or colored character Rosewood would just burst at the seams.

I pointed this out to a poster who's no longer around before and it was treated like it always is, with indifference. Don't forget Clark disappeared into thin air, so did Lorenzo, and Emily killed Nate.

I guess you're right with Emily and Mona. Mona is supposed to be Hawaiian and they represented that briefly at her 'funeral'.

If Marlene wants to battle Trumps kind she could start by representing LGBT and people of color as concrete, complex human beings.

Or just human beings. If LGBTQ and people of color (not just black) are written as just human beings, they will be complex enough. Instead of basing their personalities on their sexuality or pis poor stereotypes.

RIP Nate simply because we were given this gem of a scene.

http://fanaru.com/pretty-little-liars/image/120571-pretty-little-liars-nate-tries-to-talk-to-jenna.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgADzPjzJAs

Peace, Love, and Soul 

[–] Alysra1011 8 years ago

I understand Lorenzo simply disappearing, because the actor was fired. I don't understand why Clark disappeared though.

[–] vafla9 8 years ago

I think this article does a good job in summarizing exactly what PLL gets wrong
https://www.autostraddle.com/pretty-little-liars-has-now-killed-more-queer-and-trans-women-than-any-other-tv-show-347270/
most of the LGBT and colored characters don't get to be three dimensional. Nate was just plain evil, so was Cece, Shana and Sara. We never really knew much about those characters except for the fact that they were evil and we are not suppose to be rooting for them.

[–] perfect_lover2012 8 years ago

They're also very content with killing and mocking the LGBT characters on the show. Emily's love life is basically Marlene's wish fulfillment existence. Emily's gorgeous and she has a revolving door of love interests who either lack definitive character traits or act like escaped mental patients without explanations. They've never treated a casual love interest of the other PLLs like Sara Harvey or that weird scene with Jenna and Sara exchanging sexual innuendos. Paige and Ali's whole lives revolve around who will get Emily while Toby, Ezra and mainly Caleb get major character arcs(sigh at Mona getting less screentime than Caleb). I just think the show focuses on the fact that Emily exists on the show as an example of their boldness and appreciation of LGBT characters rather than understanding the deeper elements they could focus on instead. The show also has a weird way of dealing with sex and characters expressing interest in sex automatically leads to slut shaming, betrayal, and depression.

"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children

[–] White_Kingsley 8 years ago

I just think the show focuses on the fact that Emily exists on the show as an example of their boldness and appreciation of LGBT characters rather than understanding the deeper elements they could focus on instead.

I agree with this 100%. I even think Shay was getting sick of it at one point because she said cheekily in a few interviews about the revolving door of girls that Emily seems to have.

The show also has a weird way of dealing with sex and characters expressing interest in sex automatically leads to slut shaming, betrayal, and depression.

This is also unfortunately true. I think Spencer as a character has dealt with the slut shaming factor the most.

Another gripe I've had with the show is the constant belittling of people with mental issues. It's not cool at all.

Peace, Love, and Soul 

[–] perfect_lover2012 8 years ago

They love to poke fun at mental issues. Oh that Mona is just crazy isn't it so funny? They don't want to properly deal with mental illness of the their villains because it would allow the plls to have agency over their reactions and it would closure to a possible path of redemption or just acceptance for the villains especially Mona and Cece.

"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children

[–] Alysra1011 8 years ago

Sara was just playing Emily, I don't think she was actually gay. I never really believed that Shana was either. I also try desperately to forget that either of those characters ever existed, because they never should have. Though I don't think Maya should have existed either, I hated her as much as Sara.

[–] perfect_lover2012 8 years ago

That's actually even worse. They never make characters on the show pretend to be straight to manipulate someone. Marlene treats Emily like she's this human sex toy and everyone gets a go. Shana also dated Paige before Emily and was possibly in love with Jenna(I know Jenna was in love with her but we don't get a confirmation of Shana's feelings from what I remember) so if she was pretending she did it for a very long time. I think your disbelief probably has a lot to do with both actresses having the range of a melted crayon.

"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children

[–] vafla9 8 years ago

I'm not sure if Jenna and Shana are badly portrayed or just given crap storylines. With Shower Harvey it's easy to see that lukewarm mess is due to bad writing made even worse because the actress is so bad. But I can't positively confirm that Shana and Jenna's characters couldn't simply improved with a better script.

[–] White_Kingsley 8 years ago

And there lies the problem. I think the show could've been better on all fronts if the writing would've been better from the start.

Jenna was definitely in love with Shana and apparently, Shana went pyscho and turned against Alison because of what the girls did to her so there isn't any debate in my mind on how she felt about Jenna. It was just fleshed out horribly and used as a plot device. Like all the LGBTQ characters on this show. Then because she had dark skin, she was killed. And no justice for her murder, even though she was 'evil'.

A mess all around.

Peace, Love, and Soul 

[–] perfect_lover2012 8 years ago

Yeah its frustrating because they don't make the storylines for other characters based on the actor's abilities because they've given Toby, Ezra and Caleb more to do than Aria when Lucy is quite capable. The casting director must not take Emily's love interests seriously enough to cast good actors, they just want a certain look. Speaking of looks, they go out of their way to give Paige the "man" wardrobe in their relationship. I guess they're preparing Alison for that role now so her clothes will get more drab and she will continue to lose her spark. Shana and Sara were like parody characters. It's really sad to watch. I was seriously expecting a reveal that Sara was on the swim team back at her old school.

"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children

[–] TearTheStarsOutFromTheSky 8 years ago

Yes! This! Thanks!