MovieChat Forums > The Master (2012) Discussion > This film IS NOT about Scientology!

This film IS NOT about Scientology!

posted 10 years ago by tph890
44 replies | jump to latest

It is about how authority doesn't always hold any...authority.
Freddie was a symbol of vulnerability after a tumultuous period in American history when many young men found themselves lost and disillusioned, looking for anything to latch onto. And The Master was just another opportunist, taking advantage of the current situation; a historical staple which has repeated itself over the eons.

Scientology is only one of many bull**** 'faiths' to prey on this sort of vulnerability, and it is the most relevant example only because it has persisted for so long.
But do you really think Hubbard was the only intellectual bastard savvy enough to come up with some vague explanation for all the things that worry us in this life, especially during that time?

This movie isn't condemning scientology. It doesn't have to. Scientology condemns itself.

This movie condemns arrogance, and the will to power.

"Buy the ticket, take the ride." --Raoul Duke, the great shark hunter

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] tph890 10 years ago

It is a general idea that this movie is supposed to be a representation of scientology and its origins, which irks me, because I feel that there is much more going on in this film. People ASSUME that it is about scientology, but why? As far as I'm concerned, it is a film about 'The Cause'.

I think that viewers limit themselves by viewing this as a film purely about scientology, or a veiled description of it.

And I don't wish to list any comparisons because I know it will just offend people and that is not my intention.

I just wish that people would view this movie as pure fiction, which is what it is, even if it is based on reality. 'Boogie Nights' was based on reality too, but we take it as fiction, not historical allegory.

This film invites us to ponder the idea that maybe the world's religions are just ideas invented by man/societies, influenced by the time in which they are created, and used to control others.
Maybe this isn't a revelation to anyone but me.

And Hubbard didn't succeed in jack ****, other than making himself rich and making other people miserable. If that's success then I want no part of it.

"Buy the ticket, take the ride." --Raoul Duke, the great shark hunter

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] tph890 10 years ago

Zbriden - thank you for the reply, it's given me a lot to ponder.

I wrote this because I was frustrated, but the thoughts weren't fully formed.

"Buy the ticket, take the ride." --Raoul Duke, the great shark hunter

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] timmehh 10 years ago

This might be one of the only truly intellectual discussions I have found on the these boards over the years. I applaud both for it.

I have nothing to add to the discussion itself, I feel you both answered my initial curiosity when opening this thread.
It was indeed a sighting of a youtube clip about Scientology that reminded me about The Master and his cause.
As it has been awhile since my last viewing, I was looking for a confirmation that they bared similarities with Scientology.

aw man, i shot marvin in the face

[–] JakeGittes1 10 years ago

Yes it is retard...BOOM just interneted you.

[–] falseprophet616 10 years ago

Had to read this 10 times to understand you meant:
"Yes it is, retard. I just corrected you."

Compelling, please tell us more.

[–] robertrmeiers 9 years ago

Was it REALLY necessary to call him a retard ? How rude.

[–] Kurtz_jungle 10 years ago

Although There are obvious parallels, I agree, this film isn't particularly about Scientology. Going into the film, I (and i'm sure many others) thought this film would be an attack or condemnation on Scientology, sort of like There will be blood's views on religion and capitalism, but that wasn't the case at all. Instead of seeing a corrupt, power hungry master manipulator who tried to brainwash people for the sake of profit and power, we see someone who really did care about his followers, who wanted to help people, and did seem to believe the sh!t he was saying, albeit, while still being very flawed in his character and approach.

This film isn't nearly as black and white as to condemn Scientology and other new religious movements/cults. Instead, this film is deeply grey, so that it isn't an attack on cults, but an exploration of disillusionment and the need to belong, so as to let the viewers judge for themselves, instead of the film judging it for the viewers, which a more shallow and obvious movie would have done.

"The stronger that any light shines, the darker the shadows around it grow."

[–] armensog 10 years ago

Maybe you should change it to "NOT JUST" about scientology? Why make moronic thread titles like this? Even the director agreed that it was a prototype of scentology, how pointless is this thread?

[–] nutsberryfarm 10 years ago

it's about bill james & sabermetrics.

🚲🏪🇺🇸

[–] la-southpaw 10 years ago

While this film may not specifically be about scientology per se, the "processing" done by "the master" representing "the cause" is taken almost word for word from the scientology "bible" book.

I've seen an actual book used by scientology auditors, and there are exercises in there that were EXACTLY like the 'processing' that went on between Hoffman & Phoenix. They even called it processing!

This movie is about the relationships between the characters, but the device used is absolutely based on scientology. Do some research into what scientology does, and you'll see. Personally, I think scientology is crapola, but there it is.

It would be like making a movie about a guy that claims to be the son of god, gets nailed to an "X",dies, and then comes back from the dead 5 days later and say it is nothing like christianity.

[–] nutsberryfarm 10 years ago

interesting.

🚲🏪🇺🇸

[–] ZiadSaliba 10 years ago

From Trivia:

Paul Thomas Anderson has acknowledged that L. Ron Hubbard and the Church of Scientology served as partial basis for the character of Lancaster Dodd and his cult, "The Cause." This revelation sparked much discussion in the press, as the Church of Scientology has a long history of litigation against critics of Hubbard. Though the Church released no official comment on the film, Anderson claims that when he screened the film for his friend Tom Cruise an outspoken Scientology advocate, Cruise erupted with anger, specifically objecting to scenes where Dodd's son Val admits that Dodd made up the tenants of "The Cause," which parallel's real-life admissions by Hubbard's son. Anderson has admitted to a heated exchange with Cruise, though both the actor and director have kept details of their argument, and the outcome private.

[–] drmyeyess 10 years ago

Sabermetrics? Oh. I thought it was about the Vatican II Council...

It's just turtles all the way down.

[–] robertrmeiers 9 years ago

Better question, why are YOU wasting your time on this thread. He had his reasons for starting this thread isn't that enough ? I'm sure calling him a moron made you feel really good inside.

[–] armensog 9 years ago

Even better question! Did your stupid post add to the thread anyhow? No. Waste of time. At least mine explained my point, and why I think the thread title is moronic. We all do moronic things, that doesnt make us morons, so shove your provocations somewhere else please:)

[–] jamesengh 10 years ago

I feel that when it comes to any form of art whether it be a late night movie on cinemax or origami the observers of the art can not possibly state what it is to an other, so is it about scientology or is it not? I can only say that to me i felt a tingle of scientology. Maybe others have felt other wise.

[–] rallyinthestreets 10 years ago

Well, it's highly fictionalized to the point where it bears only a surface-level resemblance to Hubbard and Scientology. The writer-director, P.T. Anderson, by his own account did a lot of research into Scientology and a slew of cults and movements that sprang up in America in the wake of World War 2, and used all of that as influence when coming up with The Cause for this movie.

[–] irishaspaddyspig 10 years ago

Right, rallyinthestreets.

a malcontent who knows how to spell

[–] xlostincyberx 10 years ago

My mother used to be involved with Scientology when I was a kid, her and many of her friends got out of it.

I remember some of the exercises that were just like in the movie:
1) Sitting in a chair and confronting someone, looking in their eyes. The even did this with big dolls. I'm not sure about the blinking part

2) The idea that our issues comes from past lives, and the processing. They used what was called an E-Meter

3) L. Ron Hubbard and his ship captain persona, Sea Org or something?

4) The photograph that was taken of him, I'm pretty sure they were emulating his pic in for his books

5) The touching the wall and window, they had something called "Location assist" or something, I think it was used to sober people up.

6) Something about his ideas on curing people with vitamins.

Sorry if my recollections are vague, they are from 30 or so years ago and I'm just going off memory. As I was watching it these popped out at me and I'm sure there are many more. If they made it any more blatant it could probably cause lawsuits and problems with the "church" since they are notorious for lawsuits, also there are so many scientologists in hollywood I'm surprised this was made at all.

[–] Barbed_Wire_Strawberry 10 years ago

So many scientologists have come on here since this film was released...we shoo them away when we find them.

Buy The Ticket, Take The Ride

[–] funkyfresh91 10 years ago

its definitely about popeye the sailor before he discovered spinach

[–] ignorant 9 years ago

Nope but Joaquin Phoenix would make a great angry Popeye, yes siree! q;0]

[–] njiuma 10 years ago

This film IS about Scientology, is indeed historical allegory:

"Anderson finally admitted outright a couple weeks ago that he based the charismatic leader Lancaster Dodd (Philip Seymour Hoffman) on Hubbard, adding that much of the film 'related to the early days of Dianetics.'"

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2012/09/19/the_master_and_scientology_just_how_much_of_lancaster_dodd_comes_from_l_ron_hubbard_.html

[–] robertrmeiers 9 years ago

Key words: BASED ON... That is NOT the same as being ABOUT him.

[–] njiuma 9 years ago

You're splitting hairs here: BASED ON IS the SAME as being ABOUT him.

"If you love Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it copy this and make it your signature!"

[–] robertrmeiers 9 years ago

Tony Soprano is BASED on Vinny Polermo so The Sopranos is Vinny Polermo's life on the screen, 100% accurate in detail ?

[–] njiuma 9 years ago

Not 100%, but enough to say that it is as much ABOUT him as it is BASED on him.

Rocky's fight with Apollo Creed at the end of the film "Rocky" is as much about Chuck Wepner Knocking Down Muhammed Ali and going the distance as it is about a guy from Philly who likes to box. Rocky was so much about Wepner that Stallone had settle out of court with Wepner because he sued... even though the actual character of Rocky isn't Wepner's personality. But it was enough about Wepner to enable him to win a lawsuit against Stallone.

If I'm not mistaken, the Church of Scientology has won similar cases against people either directly or by inference showing them in questionable light.

Obviously, it's not a Biography or Documentary.

It's historical allegory. Close enough...

"If you love Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it copy this and make it your signature!"

[–] robertrmeiers 9 years ago

OK fair enough, interesting note about Wepner. did not know that.