This flm was confused between the idea of making a realistic thriller like...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1060255/
but made the mistake of relying upon outlandish occurances to turn the plot upon.
One particularly outrageous and annoying incident was when Benny was shot at from close distance and all the bullets missed. Very groan inducing.
Otherwise, it was a competent and watchable film.
u mean when "Jimmy" (not Benny) was shot at..
completely agree, that was quite unbelievable, even if the shooter was so bad, they shd have had at least 1 bullet hit jimmy, non-fatally, and even then jimmy shd have gone on fighting, that wd have been more believable.
i was afraid at that moment about some silly supernatural angle being introduced in it, thankfully that didnt happen.
Yes, sorry, Benny indeed.
I'm glad I wasn't the only person who felt that although in some context maybe you've hit the nail on the head and the director wanted us, the audience, to believe that Benny was somehow divinely protected due to the 'worthiness' of his cause?
"u mean when "Jimmy" (not Benny) was shot at.."
"Yes, sorry, Benny indeed."
That dialogue is much better than anything in the movie itself !
I actually thought the gun was supposed to be full of blanks because the guy in question was a bit thick & they were afraid he'd shoot himself in the leg or whatever. Notice during the posse briefing they make a point that he doesn't have a gun of his own. I'm probably wrong but that's what I assumed after the scene where he misses all those shots from close range.
Republicans dont watch stand up, theyre busy watching cartoons, trying to see who's gay.
its possible to miss but I think this was more playing on a 'pulp fiction' moment playing on his larger than life type immortality
shareCome on guys. Earlier in the film, when they gave Slim the gun, he looked at it like he'd never seen one before. He obviously had no experience using one and looked scared to take it. He also had just crashed the car at full speed just a moment before and was unconcious for a few seconds. It is completely possible that he missed. Unlikley, yes, but not groan inducing at all.
Hi Nowello, thanks for the reply. I DID notice the scene where Slim looks at the gun and it is made very clear that he is nervous, but, while understanding how he can miss once, the idea that he missed every time does not suggest a lack of experience, it actually draws attention to a very obvious script flaw.
I simply cannot accept it even in the context of his circumstances.
What's annoying as opposed to groan inducing is that it's not something that had to be included; have him miss once, or even drop the gun, but missing from so near is not believable to me, however, I accept completely that others may not have a problem with it.
Now, what about using a handgun to take out a sniper on a rooftop through noticing him in a reflection...:-)
I don't see what's so unbelievable about a guy missing all his shots, having no experience with a gun, having just been in a car accident and cracked his head on the steering wheel, shooting under considerable stress at a man who is a convicted murderer who would surely kill him should he miss, in the dead of night...
shareI accept that for one shot, not six.
shareI have to agree with you dingdongdenny.I reckon the movie was more than alright right until (and right back after)that scene.I understand that Slim had just come out of an accident and that he was quite reticent on using weapons,but missing Jimmy 5 times from 10 yards is quite unlikely.Maybe not fatally injuring him,but at least hit the target once.What also annoyed me was Jimmy's stance at the situation.He didn't even move and let Slim fire him those 5 times,like a ghost knowing he wouldn't get shot.There was no need for all those "supernatural" moments to take place,along with Jimmy's shooting at the sniper on the roof by simply seeing him through the window's reflection and draw his gun,aim and hit the target at light's speed.They should have cut that scene and replace it by something more believable and the movie would have gained from it.In my case,this flick goes from a 7/10 to a 5/10.
Good movie nonetheless,just a shame this sequence was in the final cut in my opinion
The misses were leading up to his fear of not getting the job done.
shareIt wasn't so much that he missed that was unbelievable to me. It was the fact that Jimmy just sort of... stood there. As though he knew that he was going to miss and he was in no danger. He just stood there, let him aim the gun at him for awhile, then let him get six shots off. He had NO way to know he wasn't going to hit with those shots and just stood there anyway.
~ God of the Saw Army ~
I'm gonna explain this once and for all, the gun is a weapon that when fired gives some amount of shaking to the shooter hand, now in the scene the shooter is very nervous meaning he already has his hands shaking to some degree, when you want to pull the trigger it means depending on the gun and how well oiled it is the pulling of the trigger can be harder, and when you try to do something like that, heavy lifting/heavy pulling etc. it adds some more shaking to the hands/arms etc, add to that the fact that when you pull the trigger gun shakes to some extent, firing it immediately after first shot means added shaking, another shot some more shaking and the more shots are fired the less likely it is that one will hit the target especially in the situation presented in the scene. Now regarding Jimmy just standing there, well that adds some extra nervousness to the shooter, self confidence is amazing "gift", I know when I'm playing a video game and when I have someone in my aim, I would just before pressing left mouse button suddenly I would twitch, and miss the other player, and it took me a lot of time to lose that "twitch" , and that is with a video game, I can only imagine that its million times harder when having to shoot a live person and especially if you had it coming :)
shareNah. Pure nonsense.
shareGotta say he did take those shots pretty quickly, not really giving himself time to compensate for recoil in between shots making him a "beginner";plus, all this stuff: he was scared to death, he just watched his friend die, got in an accident and might have been concuss.
But, even w/ that said i agree with that one post he should have at least grazed him or put a hole in his hat/duster or something..
Actually that part in the film is not that unrealistic at all.
The guy had probably never fired a strong calibre revolver before, which has a heavy double action trigger. He fires the revolver very very quickly, so it's easy to see that if he misses with the first shot he'll miss with the next 5. Then there's the concussion and quick-drawing against a guy with shotgun who's wife you killed.
The really unrealistic annyoing thing in the film for me was Jimmy carrying his shotgun without a round in the chamber. And in one instance completely unloaded. Rather ridiculous and took me out of the film. I tried to rationalize that he had never handled a shotgun before, since he isn't nearly as skilled with it as he is with the revolver.
Another explanation is that Jimmy believed he was 'god sent' and had divine protection of some type.
Having a long career in law enforcement (including as a Police Officer and Deputy Sheriff), I can tell you for a fact that it is more likely that it occurred this way than someone pulling out a gun and ripping off a few shots that kill the guy or knock a gun out of their hand. I had 2 guys 5 feet apart, each with a revolver, and they missed every time until they had emptied their guns.
Besides all of circumstances surrounding the fight, all kinds of physical issues add even more to the mix. Addrenalin usually makes the shooter pull right, any outside lights or reflections can pull too, there's just too many variables.
BTW - Most gunfighters were successful not because they were fast but because they took their time to get off a steady shot, plus they had the will to kill another person.
It's just soooo much harder than you think.
Thanks for the input, offdwall. That's interesting alright.
shareThe fact that Jimmy didn't even bother moving added to the ridiculous situation, I have fired various hand guns , a Colt 45 auto being the most difficult but at that range, drunk, sober or beaten around the head I would have at least put a hole in his oil skin.
That scene lost me , I even ignored the incessant unnecessary reloading of the sawn off pump action , thinking the average film goer knows little of fire arms so meh.
Good for you rbrown, if you ever faced down a vengeful cowboy you'd be sweet. This dude wasn't as badass as you clearly, quite frankly I found the pro-headshot from horseback and 30 meters off less believable (though infinitely more badass) than the bullets missing scene.
shareThis.
shareI dropped the realism part during the time Jimmy started riding with the horse.
And accepted it as a semi-surrealistic modern cowboy movie.
Though I have to say I first I thought the gun the barber used was loaded with blanks or something.
What clichés? Thats a word the wannabe critics use when they want to whinge.share
If Tarantino uses this mechanism it's genius but nobody else should dare attempt it! Red Hill is The Crow without the makeup.
shareIn Pulp Fiction, Jackson and Travolta are supposed to be angels and can't die until their purpose is fulfilled: divine intervention and all that.
As far as I know, Jimmy wasn't a divine being! :-)
And as far as I know Jackson and Travolta weren't supposed to be angels either. Mind you I've only watched it a dozen times or so, I suppose I could easily have missed that part.
shareThen you need to watch it again :-)... ...
http://www.snopes.com/movies/films/pulp.asp
http://www.godamongdirectors.com/tarantino/faq/secrets.html
I think not. If you regard that as proof of your theory I'd hate to serve on a jury with you.
The co-writer, Roger Avary, has said that the case contents are a MacGuffin which plainly is true. Tarantino has said the same thing. It's hardly the first film where the "glowing case" has been used. Kiss Me Deadly, Raiders of the Lost Ark and Repo Man, just off the top of my head, use the same device. And the 666 on the head of Marsellus is, in my opinion, just another example of Tarantino teasing the audience.
And nowhere that I've ever seen, let alone your two sources, comes up with the idea of Vincent and Jules being angels.
"And the 666 on the head of Marsellus is, in my opinion, just another example of Tarantino teasing the audience."
Well, bully for you and your definitive conclusion.
The great thing about film is that whether you believe it was a gold suit worn by Elvis or a soul, they are BOTH MacGuffins that do not disrupt the context of their inclusion with regard to the outcome of the film itself.
Far be it from me to impose my own interpretation on anyone but to argue that it is purely MY original and sole opinion that Vincent and Jules are angels is disingenuous and displays a glossing over on your part.
I recommend you searching out Rodriquez and his own 'spiritual' explanations of the film to begin with, if you're so inclined. I'm sure you'd agree that he is somebody close to the source, and while I agree that the angel interpretation is a MacGuffin, it is one that is perfectly valid.
it's completely believable that every shot missed...not only was he terrified, inexperienced with firearms, but he was also firing double action and not really aiming down the sights at all.
shareLo, that's laughable. I hope you never have to fire a gun.
shareumm...i don't really see how that has anything to do with what i said, but i have two guns and i shoot them regularly...you?
shareI have a large medevil catapult anda rock.
sharei bet you couldn't hit me at close range without aiming.
shareWhat a ridiculous argument going on here. There is nothing wrong with the scene, it's entirely plausible he could miss every time in that situation with everything that was going on. I've seen it happen in other films and no one complains, and - as experienced people have already said on here - it can happen in real life with even LESS range between the shooter and target. Guns are not just pointing, shooting and hitting automatically, with no effort. I think the thread creator needs to go spend some time on a gun range.
Great film, and the only non-realistic moment in my mind after watching it twice, is him shooting the sniper with a handgun from the street. But that was just bloody cool, so win all around.
Hollywood has clearly ruined the perception of many regarding guns. We see it in every single blockbuster every weekend, any character grabs a gun and they are killing people with no effort whatsoever. From little kids to any other average joe. Yes, it's posible to miss from that close.
shareHey Denny, you called out exactly the two scenes that bothered me and for the same reason:
"missed from 10 feet away after 6 shots"
and
"Shot from 75 meters after seeing a reflection, whipping around, aiming updwards, sitting on a horse and hitting dead center forehead"
In a movie like Dusk Til Dawn or even Desparado scenes like these don't stand out because they are campy frenetic movies.
Red Hill plays it relatively straight except for these types of scenes and the movie suffers.
Still watching it just now...but reminds me of High Plains Drifter a bit in the "wronged man seeks vengeance and is unstoppable" department
Have you ever fired a gun?
shareI couldn't have cared less if that scene was realistic or not. It was damn cool. heh heh. And the cinema audience I was with just loved it and cheered and laughed along. It was damn funny and one of the most memorable moments of the film for me. I loved it. Besides, that sort of thing would sit fine in any spaghetti western or genre film. Hollywood has done stuff like that many times, I'm sure.
BTW - I wouldn't offer up "The Horseman" as an example of realism. I loved "The Horseman" as much as "Red Hill" but the punishment our hero took in that film was over the top and threw realism out the window too. e.g. I can't imagine anybody having a nipple ripped off with pliers, the wound sealed with a blow torch and managing to fight back like Rocky against the villains without even clutching a hand to his wounds or being short of breath. At least I think that's right - I'm gonna have to watch it again.
I would bet that the OP has never actually fired a handgun, certainly not under stress. It's not even close to being as easy as it looks in most movies, an inexperienced person would have trouble hitting a person at 5 - 10 meters under those conditions. Even someone with a bit of training would be unlikely to get every shot on target or even most on target.
I'd actually be more surprised if he had hit Jimmy and I think Jimmy shooting the guy on the rooftop after seeing his reflection in the window was a bigger stretch (although possible).
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"Cunnilingus and Psychiatry brought us to this"