So, why did they REALLY kill Carl?? - The Walking Dead (2010) Discussion

[–] JigsawDude (173) 7 years ago

Probably figured letting Chandler go to College would save them money so they let him go and will likely bring in new actors/characters that they can pay less. It is disappointing though nevertheless.

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[–] brux (14729) 7 years ago

He doesn't have the charisma, and the character does not have the backstory to really go anywhere is my thought.

I am getting so tired of how they keep having these long drawn-out discussions about how should not kill the bad guys ... it's taken up hours of showtime. It is boring. We all know those things would be hard for anyone to process, and live with, but that is the situation.

They just keep doing it.

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[–] EmperorOfDragons (297) 7 years ago

Keep in mind they did this with Andrea as well. A character that lived far longer then TV Andrea. I think they killed Carl because they didn't want to kill Judith.

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[–] bohemianroxie (2478) 7 years ago

I don't think it had that much to do with Riggs. He seems like a good kid (although his father may have been a bit of a stage father)...but I think they, or Gimple, saw the failing ratings and wanted to try something different to shake things up..They've always relied on shock value to try and turn things around when they were in a slump..
The only other original characters left are Rick and Daryl and Carol and they were too afraid to quite risk them yet...so they took what they considered the only alternative left. Carl..

Personally I like Carl. He annoyed me in the earlier seasons but I haven't had a problem with him for a long while and still felt he was a necessary part of the show moving forward. But when people whined he was the one they most whined about..So they considered him the safest risk.
For me it has just gotten down to where nothing they do matters too much anymore. I can't really enjoy a show that doesn't respect its characters motivations and just wallows in redundant doom and gloom as they go down the line slaughtering each one of them with paper thin characterization before they categorically blood them all out.

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[–] EmperorOfDragons (297) 7 years ago

Carl was indeed the safe bet, There's noway in hell they're getting rid of Darryl, or Carol. Ironically two original characters that don't come from the books (i look at TV carol as a original character tbh)

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[–] MadamShogun (240) 7 years ago

You know it's strange, the TellTale games wallow in doom and gloom as well, but has MASSIVE critical acclaim. The comic is still pretty dark too. The tv show seems to wallow in the doom and gloom but don't offer anything else in ADDITION to the doom and gloom. Not to mention the adventure games and comics don't have the award bait soap opera stuff.

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[–] bohemianroxie (2478) 7 years ago

Maybe it's different for games and comics...and maybe even some films since they only steal a few hours of your time.
But I really think that a tv series that goes on for years and years really needs some kind of pay off to balance out all the misery and to help people see the point of staying invested ..Because what's the point anymore?

I think otherwise that people get disconnected or start hate watching, especially if the writing gets sloppy. And TWD has it's share of sloppy writing and much in the way of boring filler episodes. And, lately, giving their characters the dimensions of a door mat that continuously keep doing stupid things to add to their own misery. .

I know Game of Thrones has been accused of being pretty miserable..but it is well written and has had a number of pay offs that make all the doom and gloom worth while..Some people think too many pay offs (not me).. but I'm happy that so many will get to make it to the final battle at the finish line that even death still makes them winners in the end.

There's no winners on TWD except those that are already dead.. and I think it's too late for the characters that we started out with..

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[–] Mikey (422) 7 years ago

" (although his father may have been a bit of a stage father)"

I think you are close to hitting the nail on the head. I heard his father was doing "Walking Dead" tours, bringing tourists to filming locations, and charging a hefty fee, with the big lure that it was the real father of "Carl". I can't think that the producers would have liked that.

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[–] Aphrodite (110) 7 years ago

The fact they abruptly decided to kill Carl off right before Chandler turned 18 is a major reason. They just didn’t want to have to pay him a full salary like the other adults. He’s one of 4 original cast members, which means he would have taken a huge pay increase. They didn’t want to pay, and since they knew they needed to do something big to see if they could get more viewers (which they failed miserably at, as the last 2 episodes had the worst ratings) they decided he had to go.

In the long run, I think Chandler will be happy he left when he did - before the ship sank even deeper, because they’re on life support right now. At this point, the show needs to end soon. I can’t see it lasting much longer. The ratings are so bad, they’re in line with season 2 now. That’s pretty bad considering they once had 17 million viewers. At least Chandler has a head start at finding new work, while people are still talking about the show.

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[–] lennonforever (2453) 7 years ago

I guess you're right, but honestly, I don't think Riggs is that good an actor. I think he will just fade away into obscurity.

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[–] Aphrodite (110) 7 years ago

I never really understood the hate Chandler got. I didn’t think he was a great actor, but I certainly didn’t think he was horrible. I understood what he was meant to bring to the show. He was a little kid in a zombie world, so it was expected he would do stupid stuff and get into bad situations. But I never had an issue with the kid himself. There’s only so much do with what you’re given, and Chandler wasn’t given too much. The writing was pretty bad where Carl was concerned.

It’ll be interesting to see what he does away from the a show. Maybe now he’ll surprise people.

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[–] lennonforever (2453) 7 years ago

Yes, we will see. He is going to the Horrorhound Convention in Cincinnati at the end of the month. I am going , too. If I can get near to him I will ask what he has planned other than being a college student.

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[–] kenburke (2377) 7 years ago

I suspect the only "hate" Chandler Riggs ever got was from Walking Dead fans so obsessed with the show that they had long ago forgotten they were supposed to watch said show to have fun.

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[–] ghostboy (652) 7 years ago

I think the definitive reason is due to having to pay the actor more money as an adult.

However, I also think that maybe they knew Chandler Riggs would never be able to carry the show like Andrew Lincoln and since the comic went in the direction where Carl steps up as a leader and Rick is on the back burner, they knew fans would be like "Carl should be taking on more of Rick's role" So, to deter fans from that constant complaint, they killed Carl and any possibility of him taking over, so that Andrew Lincoln could remain at the forefront without having to come up with excuses as to why Carl isn't taking more charge. This also opened the floodgates of fans complaining "you killed Carl, you bastards"

I think if Carl had lived, I doubt they would have continued in the direction that the comics went, so they killed two birds with one stone. We don't have to pay him the extra salary and we keep Andrew Lincoln as the star.

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[–] Aphrodite (110) 7 years ago

That’s assuming Andrew Lincoln wants to stay on the show. I’ve seen quite a few posts from people here saying he wants off the show. who knows what’s true. I haven’t kept up with interviews or any of that to know how he really feels, but if he also wants off the show then it was a bad move. The only strong character they have left on the show, is Carol.

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[–] ghostboy (652) 7 years ago

I wouldn't be too surprised if he wants off the show considering the drop in quality. However, I haven't come across anything myself to suggest he wants to bail, if he were to bail out, now would have been the time, since didn't most of the cast renegotiate their contracts?

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[–] Aphrodite (110) 7 years ago

I don’t know if they’re done srenegotiating their contracts or still in the process of doing it. I know it looks like Lauren might not be coming back. And apparently Andrew Lincoln said he wants Rick to die...whether that means now or next season or some time in the future who knows. Norman has apparently said he’ll stay on the show until it ends. I don’t think anything has been announced about them being done with contract renegotiations though. The only story we’ve heard is that Lauren still hasn’t got a contract in place and has taken another job. So she likely won’t be back. But the show really bit themselves in the foot if Andrew Lincoln wants off the show. The only characters they have who could possibly take over for him, is Carol, Daryl or Michonne.

As far as I’m concerned, they’ve turned Michonne weak ever since she and Rick started hooking up. She used to be such a strong and kickass character, but now she’s easily defeated by enemies. If Rick does die, then Michonne will probably be too focused on raising Judith. I don’t think we’ll see the old Michonne unless Judith also dies, and she loses everything - like she did when she first became that kick ass character we first saw years ago after losing her husband, son, and the rest of her family. And Daryl is nothing like he used to be and has gone against Rick multiple times now and screwed everything up. He went from my fave character, to someone I can’t really stand anymore. A lot of people blame him for getting Glenn killed, and now also getting Carl killed. Whether it’s actually true or not, there are people who put the blame squarely on him. Carol is really the only one who still kicks some butt.

Aside from one of them taking over, they’ll have to do a time jump. I don’t think they’d have any other choice, which means losing even more characters. I don’t think anyone would miss Negan at this point, his arc tanked the show.

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[–] ghostboy (652) 7 years ago

I see, the only reason I assumed they had completed the renegotiations apart from Lauren Cohan was because the show was renewed for season 9, I thought they wouldn't have done that if the main star of the show hadn't signed on. But anyway, I think Andrew Lincoln deserves better than this show at this point, a lot of the cast do and there is work out there for some of them, probably not all like Melissa McBride, nothing wrong with her acting, but doubt there are many interesting roles for a woman of her age.

I agree about the characters of Michonne and Daryl. Michonne was great in season 3 and then once she and Rick got together, her character became less interesting. Daryl was my favourite character in season 1/2 but in season 3 he had lost his attitude and to me his story came to a close when he reunited with this brother. Now, Norman Reedus is just doing the show for a pay cheque, he puts no effort into the few lines he gets, it is painful to see such a strong character plummet to such a poor shadow of its former self.

I really don't think any of the other characters could take the lead in the show, carrying the show on without Rick Grimes, you may as well just reboot it, start from scratch with a whole new array of characters.

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[–] lennonforever (2453) 7 years ago

I will NOT continue with the show when Rick dies, or if Andy leaves.
You are so right about Michonne. She has been made weak since the romance.
Daryl, NR, is pissing me off! He is just there for the money. It seems he has lost all his ambition.
There is talk that "Negan" JDM may be the lead character IF the show lasts a few more seasons. STUPID Gimple wants to perhaps have more spin-offs. He is a total fool.

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[–] winslow (1318) 7 years ago

Norman Reedus said Daryl will start to get more lines as his character changes a bit in the back half of this season.

I don't see them writing Maggie out of the show if Carl's already gone. As long as they have the Hilltop, they will do whatever they need to do to keep her on board.

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[–] Aphrodite (110) 7 years ago

Andrew Lincoln won’t talk about his contract, or if he’s even signed on for season 9. That’s going by the latest interview from THR with him. He refused to even want to talk about season 9. He just kept saying how the back 8 or 9 episodes are really emotional and impactful, etc. Makes me wonder if this might indeed be Rick’s last season. Very weird he refused to talk about season 9.

It’s sad what happened with Daryl. He was my favourite character. For me what did it was in season 5 (I think?) when they decided to do that big zombie march with the zombies fromthe quarry. That’s when I was just done with Daryl. I had been disliking him for a while, but it wasn’t until then that I was just like “what the hell happened to Daryl?”

And Michonne was so strong and kickass up until the Rick hookup. After that she started becoming a mom to his kids and the fact she got beaten so badly last season with they were betrayed by those garbage people - just wtf happened to her? She is so weak now.

Yeah I think they’ll do a time jump or something and age up Judith to an adult or something. That would be the easiest way to kill off character and just say they didn’t survive whatever new war they were in. This show is really going nowhere. They have no endgame. It’s just rinse and repeat at this point.

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[–] ghostboy (652) 7 years ago

Interesting. However, this could just be a ploy to play up the "Will Rick make it out of All Out War alive"
So, they tell Andrew Lincoln to be coy when talking about the contract renewal.

The show pulls a lot of ridiculous moves to try keep itself on top in terms of viewership so it wouldn't surprise me if this is all intentional and Andrew is signed on for season 9.

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[–] lennonforever (2453) 7 years ago

Andy has not said "I want Rick to die", but he has said he wants a fitting end to "Rick's story". He deserves that. It IS his story.

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[–] winslow (1318) 7 years ago

Speculation is that comic Rick will die in #200 which is about 2 years away.

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[–] Aphrodite (110) 7 years ago

Sorry, yeah I was reading an article about it, and they said Andrew said that he wanted Rick to die. But he actually said there needs to be an endgame, and that he’s “willing to take the medicine” if it comes to another big death, like Carl’s. So he’s willing to die.

One interesting thing though, I glanced at another new interview with Andrew from THR, and they asked him about his contract and there being a 9th season, and he was very adamant on talking about the back 8 or 9 episodes left. Like he refused to talk about season 9 or his contract, but kept saying how these next few episodes are so emotional and impactful, and he doesn’t want to ruin it for people. Makes me wonder if he is coming back for another season or not.

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[–] winslow (1318) 7 years ago

He handled it in the standard professional way. Once the filming is done, it's his job to help promote the show as it is airing. So in his appearances and interviews, he is there to talk about Rick Grimes season 8 and not Andrew Lincoln season 9.

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[–] Mikey (422) 7 years ago

I am not sure where this theory comes from wherein, when an actor turns 18 the producers have to pay that actor more. An actors salary on a TV show or movie is based on TONS of things, including the actor's q rating, the importance of the actor and character in the show, and the ability of the actor and the actor's agent to negotiate a deal.

The fact is that Riggs had been told his character would be on the show for at least the next three years, and then Riggs was told his character was going to die. Something happened between part 1 and part 2 of this scenario. I was just wondering what it could have been. But I am just about 100% positive it was not, "He's turning 18 and we'll have to pay him more". I am sure he was making pretty good money being in one of the hit shows of the last decade, and there has been no rumors of him holding out for more money ala Seinfeld or the voice actors on The Simpsons.

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[–] lennonforever (2453) 7 years ago

The going rumors was that as a kid, he was only making about 40or 50K a show. Compare that with AL or NR who are getting, I thing 600K per show.
It all stinks.

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[–] Aphrodite (110) 7 years ago

It’s because as a child actor, there are certain requirements that the producers and such need to follow. Kids are only allowed on set for a certain amount of hours every day, whereas an adult can be on set for 12-16 hours, as needed. It would be illegal to keep a child on set that long. Some shows get around that by having twins play a role, that way when one child is done for day, their sibling can continue filming any needed scenes. Here’s a document I found for NY that states how many hours a child can work or be on set (sorry, no idea how to make it clicky): https://labor.ny.gov/formsdocs/wp/LS559.pdf

Also, they have to set up tutors and schooling on set to make sure the kids get an education, and so on. But when a child turns 18, they’re no longer held to those rules. Once they turn 18, they’re done with school (unless they choose to go to University), and they no longer have restrictions as to how long they can be on set.

So now as an adult, Chandler would be more available as he would no longer need to be tutored on set, and would be available for the same hours as the other actors, and there would be no other restrictions. Plus, he would need to be paid more because of that.

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[–] winslow (1318) 7 years ago

I don't put a lot of stock in the turning 18 thing either. Most shows prefer actors who are 18+ playing 16 so they don't have to deal with the child labor laws.

Something they probably considered was having to deal with Carl's eye injury long term. I was really surprised when they did it on the show.
The bandages eventually come off, and to show it they have to do extensive prosthetic + CGI on it because they made it look like it does in the comics. This is similar to why they didn't have Rick's hand chopped off back at Woodbury. He gets the most screen time and does a lot of physical stuff that would be difficult for someone to do 1-handed. Plus what it would take to edit it out of every shot if they didn't give him a hook like Merle.

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[–] kenburke (2377) 7 years ago

Maybe they figured he got too old to be the show's kid so they would eventually replace him with Henry.

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[–] exatera (3959) 7 years ago

Well, he is ridiculously old for the character, if anything I am surprised they kept him on this long. It's only been what, two years of the zombie apocalypse? And Carl went from a 10y.o. boy to a young adult with stubble on his face.

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