MovieChat Forums > The American (2010) Discussion > One for the gun experts

One for the gun experts

posted 11 years ago by thelastfaceyouwillsee
14 replies | jump to latest

OK, so the hitwoman Mathilde asks Jack to supply a custom/modified rifle with the performance of a submachine gun that can fit into a briefcase. He basically gives her a Ruger Mini-14 with a different barrel and a home made suppressor. There's two things I don't get about this. Firstly, from her requirements, Mathilde would appear to need a compact assault rifle so why not get one instead of ordering up a bespoke speciality item? It's hardly similar to the special rifle the assassin orders in The Day of the Jackal! There must be a whole host of off the peg weapons she could have obtained instead of using Jack's services...

Secondly, Jack doesn't even make a special weapon for her. He orders a Ruger Mini-14 with folding stock and a different barrel (why the need for this barrel, can anyone explain?). The only gunsmithing work he really does is to make a suppressor and provide the briefcase. Oh, and the deadly switcheroo for the twist of course.

They missed an opportunity here for Jack to make something cool. I like the movie but this detail bugs me - as with the muzzle velocity goof it seems like lazy film-making and most audiences are savvy enough, I think, to spot these details nowadays.

"Remember, you have to make it home to get paid" (The Dogs of War)

[–] marktarnovetsky 11 years ago

i need to re watch this scene as it was one of my favourites, caught most of this film on IFC the other night, my guess is that she did not order an "assault" weapon rather an assassin's weapon, as the mini 14 is "praised for its real world practicality". The different barrel might be due to the fact that the mini 14's stock barrel is limited to targets up to 350 yards. although it was not the rifle's distance qualities, rather, its suppression ability from being a downscaled AR made it "nearly impossible" to identify shooter position.

[–] thelastfaceyouwillsee 11 years ago

Understood, but the details of the weapon she requests seem contradictory - the rate of fire of a submachine gun but the range of a rifle plus a silencer/suppressor. Not exactly a precision weapon. My problem is with her request rather than what the American supplies.

"Remember, you have to make it home to get paid" (The Dogs of War)

[–] spookyrat1 11 years ago

Um! You're not kidding. That really is one for the gun experts.

I just took it for fact that Jack was good at working on and modifying weapons.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] pcventures 11 years ago

Disclaimer: Not a gun expert, but a "student of the gun" (on paper) since 1984, and an owner of firearms/shooter since 2008. I think the line was something about the "capacity of a submachine gun, with the (something something) of an assault rifle." (I'm not going to rewind/rewatch)
First off, both subguns and "assault rifles" can have very similar magazine capacities. "Stick" mags for most pistol caliber subguns are between 30 and 32 rounds. 20 and 30 round mags are common for m-16 variants (supposedly in combat US troops felt the 20 rounders were the most reliable).
Another bizarre line was about a velocity of "340 miles an hour" which would be roughly the velocity of a Crosman air rifle with about five pumps. 5.56/223 goes at an average of 3000 feet per second. Several times the speed of sound, not less than half.
Mini 14s are pretty decent in the accuracy and reliability departments, but they're nothing special.
I think the idea was to draw out the storyline by forcing him to have to modify the gun and make custom ammunition. Kind of silly, I would think a professional assassin would want his kit as "off the shelf" and proven as possible. In addition, every move he makes to acquire, modify and assemble weapon parts represents an opportunity to be caught either by the authorities, or enemies.
If the filmmakers wanted to get Jack to stick around for a while, they could have invented any other plot device to make that happen. As an example, his handler could have said, "we're unsure of what this person looks like, etc. He/She is a slippery master of disguise, moving around frequently. We're paying you triple because you're going to have to do a lot of the legwork yourself."
One interesting development in the world of firearms the filmmakers could have taken advantage of would be the relatively new .300 Blackout cartridge. Slow and heavy, easy to suppress, with a trajectory that would have worked within the distances needed for his target.
One final "gun note" that I will probably mention in a separate thread - the picnic scene in which he thinks he's in danger, surreptitiously cocks his gun, then lets the hammer down. That particular gun actually has a "de-cocker" a sort of safety lever that lowers the hammer. Thumb-decocking a small pistol like that can be done, but the de-cocker is safer and easier to manipulate.

"...and Mrs. Taylor sure seems to use a lotta ice, whenever he's away."

[–] thelastfaceyouwillsee 11 years ago

Good call, thanks.

"Remember, you have to make it home to get paid" (The Dogs of War)

[–] doodleboy 11 years ago

So, from what i can gather from the movie (and my "gun nut" background):

She requests a gun with the Capacity (# of rounds in the clip) of a SubMachine Gun, and the ACCURACY of a rifle (not an assault rifle, a RIFLE). Rate of Fire "rapid" just means "Not a Bolt-action gun" = the semi-auto nature of the gun he provides is fine. She's not looking for a full-auto "Spray & pray" weapon. if you're really looking for accuracy in a rifle, gotta go bolt-action, not semi-auto.

he uses a Mini-14 STOCK, but the barrelled-action from another (presumably more accurate) weapon. For instance, a Colt AR15 has a 1 MOA (minute of Aim) accuracy - 1 degree spread at 100yds. Most other AR-15 variants don't print this tight. So, he IS customizing the gun, but from existing parts. He also has to customize the stock to receive the barrel, and mount the suppressor. A lot of his skill is used in making the rounds.

I was curious why he gave her the speed of the round in "miles per hour" as opposed to "feet per second" or "meters per second" - the usual measures. I think it's to assure her that the rounds are SUBSONIC. A 3000fps round (typical tactical round in 5.56mm) would have a massive sonic boom (and way more recoil) that would prevent rapid shooting and draw much more attention. The suppressor would have much less effect, and might even cause inaccuracy, if you're trying to push a bullet (and air) through it that rapidly.

And, to be fair, some people still use the hammer to decock a gun, just out of habit. Also, using the decocker means the hammer SNAPS down, loudly. He doesn't want her to know, so (despite the foley work) he quietly decocks the gun by lowering the hammer. Also, some people NEVER use the lever, because, while you can't do it one-handed while still keeping your finger on the trigger. If you want to use the lever, you turn the gun in your hand to reach up for the decocker. If you're shooting 2-handed, it's less of an issue (same with mag- and slide-release buttons).

[–] thelastfaceyouwillsee 11 years ago

Thanks Doodleboy!

"Remember, you have to make it home to get paid" (The Dogs of War)

[–] pcventures 11 years ago

I appreciate your replies. You're right - a decocker usually makes a sharper "snap" than thumbing it down. When reflecting on your comment, it makes sense that the foley guy simply made the "thumb down" louder than it should have been.
I have a P-64 (copy of the PPK), and I never got the trick of "thumbing it down" but I LOVE the decocking lever.
What do you think of my idea of using .300 BLK instead of .223 for Jack/Mathilde's mission?

"...and Mrs. Taylor sure seems to use a lotta ice, whenever he's away."

[–] doodleboy 11 years ago

i'm not all that familiar with the .300 BLK, mostly because it's so new. It seems designed/marketed for the "urban warfare" prepper who's got clear sightlines and short ranges. It reminds me of the .45GAP, which was the "all around best" pistol round, but never really took off.

And i don't know when it was invented/popularized, but i know it was recently. This movie seems set in...1995? the cellphones aren't exactly "smart".

Anyway, i don't figure any of this is the "point" of the film - but you're right, it's frustrating when they include so much detail and b-roll of him making the weapon/rounds, and seem to get a lot of it wrong.

[–] rzid 11 years ago

I thought at first his using miles per hour was a test, like his timing her as she is assembling the weapon. Remember he doesn't anything about her except the fact that Pavel sent her to him. I was waiting for her to say "Miles per hour, wtf are you talking about?" When she said nothing, I came to the same conclusion as you, he was emphasizing the subsonic. Still sounded weird though.

[–] DrStrangeFate 11 years ago

The weapon chosen to fulfill the requirements was a Ruger Mini-14 which Jack misrepresents in the movie as an M-14 (a .308 caliber rifle)... close but not quite. Since one of the criteria was to be able to store the weapon in a briefcase, a factory folding stock was chosen, similar to what was used in the old A-Team TV show. A replacement barrel was made that could be screwed on and off, in order to make the rifle-length weapon storeable in a briefcase. It appears that a side-mounted scope bracket is added which would indicate that it is not a newer "ranch" model that allows for mounting of a picatinny optics rail directly to the top of the receiver. Hmm, a suppressed Mini-14 that can be stored in a briefcase? Well, I've never seen one. Pretty cool if you ask me.

[–] montgomeryshire 11 years ago

Hi...I own a mini 14 which is the one in the movie and chambered in .223 and also a mini 30 chambered in 7.62x39....just saw the movie again last night...what he originally receives from the post office is a mini 14 factory folder...ie a mini 14 that is stock from the factory with a folding stock...the female assassin needs a compact gun that can fit in a briefcase and a has a suppressor...these are the things he works on. The mini 14's barrel is connected to its receiver..one can see that when he is originally pulling out the gun parts from the post office package...what he does is cut the barrel from the receiver...that allows the parts to be more compact when taken apart and put in a suitcase..one can see this when the gun is getting reassembled...he screws the barrel onto the wood stock that has the receiver on top of it...then he screws on the suppressor which he makes from the garage spare parts...also in one scene he is also working on the fire control group..polishing which should help in the crispness of the trigger pull and break..so he does customize the gun..that being said the mini 14 is not a very accurate gun...the ar15 is way more accurate...i also have an ar15..so reality and the movie don't really make sense..the gun is custom made but would not be a first choice for a hitperson me thinks...but a mini 14 with a folding factory stock in wood is dead sexy...and being that he is a craftsman the wood stock goes better than a plain black gun in my opinion...thanks David

[–] 11 years ago

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