MovieChat Forums > The American (2010) Discussion > Why is it that people keep thinking the ...

Why is it that people keep thinking the velocity is a goof???? SPOILER

posted 10 years ago by Gabe1972
13 replies | jump to latest

Three times now I've had to get IMDB to delete goofs that people submit that refers to how the mentioned velocity is wrong. I'm not talking about the fact that he answers in miles per hour, which is definitely odd, but the fact that he mentions it's 360MPH. You get people who submit a goof saying that a Mini 14's velocity is much, much higher than that.

Did every one of these people miss the fact that Jack hand loaded the rounds? When you hand load rounds you can make them go any velocity you want. SHEESH! I love how the people that submit this goof probably feel so good about the fact that they knew more than the filmmakers and how they are gun savvy people, not realizing they simply didn't pay attention and aren't as gun savvy as they think.

Give it a few months and there will be a fourth one, I'm sure. Someone else will submit the "mistake" in velocities, and I will once again correct their ignorance.

Actually, I should be more perturbed with IMDB than the people that submit the supposed goof, as they should have some sort of list of past submitted goofs that were refuted, and they could just not approve it in the first place.

The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

[–] shapecharge-412-133353 10 years ago

You desperately need to get a life...

[–] neverstandinalone 8 years ago

Some of us care about the details, as in 'God's in the details'. To tell someone to get a life is ludicrous when he does care about the details because, surely, the signs are he has a more abundant life. Life would be extremely boring were it not for details.

I care because I like to be correct when speaking/writing about a subject and if it were not for people like him my good time would be considerably dimished checking and rechecking facts.

An excellent disposition on details: http://www.nytimes.com/1989/07/30/magazine/on-language-who-s-in-those-details.html

Ignorance isn't bliss. Ignorance is laziness. So stop being so lazy!

[–] melinda2001 10 years ago

IMDb is probably administered by like 4 guys who can't possibly police all the 'M's in the Db. All the content is created by us, so if you want to police this M for a particular goof, then just do it. It's more helpful than complaining.

Oh, and "gooses" is also acceptable, and is perhaps even more correct.

[–] Gabe1972 10 years ago

Yeah, but when I add a goof or trivia piece, or correct something, it's generally done within a couple of days. A few times people have added this goof, I notice it and request it be deleted, which they do, but the last one took quite some time.

I do understand what you are saying though. It is a very large site and it would take thousands of people to keep everything up to date in a timely and intelligent manner. They aren't going to do that for a free site. Plus, it's not like they are going to watch each film to check on the various goofs and trivia to make decisions. It's sort of like Wiki in that it's changed by us, not them. Although they have to approve the changes/additions. But yes, there simply isn't enough people to keep up with things.

The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

[–] jeremy_h 9 years ago

Gabe,
A 528 fps handload would be a good way to end up with a squib. Since you clearly don't have even a grade-school level of understanding of ballistics you can look it up later. Also, the Mini-14 rifle, is a rifle, and in this case a semi-automatic one. Enough force needs to be applied to the round to both cycle the action and push the round down those rifle grooves. Action and reaction. The reaction energy is harnessed to move the bolt back, eject the case, and have the bolt return. 1/6th of that energy isn't enough to have enough reaction to do that and the action will easily leave a round stuck in the barrel.

[–] Gabe1972 9 years ago

You're funny, and with your little post that tries to make folks think you are very knowledgeable about firearms, you gave something MAJOR away which demonstrates that you aren't.

Way to go assuming that he hasn't taken the reduced energy into consideration and altered the weapon accordingly. Way to go assuming he isn't using a much heavier round to help offset the reduced velocity so there is still enough energy to cycle the weapon. Way to go assuming everything is to build spec.

When you try to present yourself as something, at least have more than Wikipedia knowledge in the area, lest you make yourself look like a fool.

Secondly, when people like you try to put someone down, they always make the classic mistake and give something away that shows that they're full of it and have nothing more than basic knowledge in an area. You did this. Let's see if you can figure out what it is.

Thirdly, is it really necessary to put someone down rather than just add your opinion to the discussion? I can see exactly what type of person you are for doing so. It's because of this that you are called out for the fool you are. Nice try.

Lastly, if the round comes out of the barrel, you don't have a squib. Duh. If the round came out at 300fps, even if it doesn't cycle to the next round, guess what...still no squib. Again, duh. So guess what....no squib.

Stick with Wikipedia. You might impress someone there.

I drank what?

[–] jeremy_h 9 years ago

Came here on accident anyway. The American when I needed The Americans, oh well.

I get enough long winded obstinate fools at work now and then that can't be told they're obstinate fools since that would upset team dynamics. Not that problem here.

Since this looks like a D-grade movie and a waste of my time maybe someone can review the scene. Does the supposed 528 fps round cycle the action? From here on I assume it does.

A stock Mini-14 is .223. So all the way down to about 40 gr up to about 90. A 77 gr is about 3100 fps. Supposing the scene in this mediocre movie does cycle the action this cannot possibly be a stock Mini-14.

Maybe he is a reasonably good gunsmith? The .458 SOCOM was designed to be little more than a barrel swap for the M-4/M-16. It wouldn't be a stretch to do the same to the Mini-14. Ok, 600 gr and 1,000 fps. So I suppose he could make a 1200 gr round which would by 50% over the typical range of a .50 BMG round and twice that of a typical .458 SOCOM.

Physics say that your opinion that this goof is not a goof is extremely unlikely.

The worst kind of obstinate fool is one just smart enough to eloquently argue their point but not smart enough or simply too obstinate to give up. They just keep on searching for far fetched scenarios that "prove" they are right.

[–] Gabe1972 9 years ago

If you haven't watched the film, watch it. And if you haven't, why are you even commenting on something you could not possibly know about. Just because I drove a 1997 Toyota Corolla doesn't mean I know about every 1997 Toyota Corolla in every film.

If you did watch the film...

If you had paid attention, you would realize that the character in the film is not your average, run of the mill, shooter. Not only does he load his own rounds (which any bonehead with even a hand kit can do), he manufactured his own suppressor (albeit a movie one). So to assume he is using a stock Mini 14 is a little too much of an assumption to make.

I supposed you completely missed the part where they discussed the range the weapon needed to be, as well. And I guess with your barrel swap theory you completely missed the part where he loaded the rounds himself. You think they may have been .458 SOCOM rounds? Are you smoking something?

Keep trying.

I drank what?

[–] jeremy_h 9 years ago

If you actually read my previous post you'd understand I discarded .458 as not working either. Maybe you just cherry picked .458 and ran with it.

Actually I was trying to find a rationale to defend your position and even stepping up to .458 it failed. A .223 case wouldn't support a round heavy enough, period. You couldn't even use a heavier than lead round such as Osmium which I don't even know if that would have the properties to work as a round. Gold is nearly as dense and denser than lead.

There you go! Jack was using 1200 grain gold .458 SOCOM. Or pixie dust. You win.

[–] Gabe1972 9 years ago

Okay then. Now that you've completely wasted my time and yours with nonsense... Moving on.

I drank what?

[–] jspurdy-33629 8 years ago

I guess some people believe the HOLLYWEIRD firearms and gunsmith gurus like Sen. Kevin de Leon. If the speed desired was around 360MPH/528FPS then an air rifle would be more than sufficient, plus it would kill two birds with one stone: it would be somewhat more quiet and no muzzle flash. You tried to dumb it down but some people just like the taste of kool-aid.

[–] KutWrite (1317) 7 years ago

Would an air rifle have met the range and Mercury round requirements?

[–] KutWrite (1317) 7 years ago

Ehh...

1. Yes, a Min-14 but an obviously modified one. They show some rounds which are much larger than the stock .223.

2. A Mini-14 is gas operated, not recoil operated. In a way, I guess your principle still holds, as part of the energy of the explosion, not the recoil, is still needed to eject and feed.

I'm glad someone did the math on 368 mph, though. I did wonder why, in Italy, Pavel would've converted to mph, but it didn't stop me from enjoying the movie. Well, I just did it and got 538.7 fps. That's a lot slower than a Mini-14's normal 3200 or so fps. Their Mini-30 variant shoots 7.62 x 39mm rounds at about 2400 fps.