Not A Good Movie


I thought this was pretty poor. This is my review from my movie blog - http://reelcommentary.blogspot.com/ (with some words cleaned up for IMDB).

I wanted see this based on reading good things about it, so I watched it on Netflix last night. The story is about a 17 year old girl, Ree, who is trying to find her meth dealing father, as the family home is about to be taken away from them by bail bondsmen.

To complicate things, her father might be dead, her mother is nearly catatonic, and Ree has to take care of her younger brother and sister. Everyone in this movie is unlikeable except for Ree's siblings. All the characters are portrayed as violent, drug using, hillbillies. Now maybe this reflects true in certain families in Missouri, where this film is set, but it's not good for the main character to be so unpleasant. Yes, I thought she was an unlikeable character. Ree had been forced to become the caregiver to her mother and younger sibs, but other than doing that, which was less an act of nobility than an act of necessity, she displayed little that I felt was either smart or appealing.

The entire tone of the movie is somber. There are no indications that any of these characters will grow or have anything better in their lives. Everyone is resigned to the roles they've been born into. Drugs are all that these characters have to motivate them, either by selling, using, or manufacturing them.
As the movie came to an end, there was no redemption for anyone, no epiphanies, nothing learned by their suffering, and no hope for a future different than the past. It's a movie that shows only bleakness, only sorrow. The lack of any glimpse that Ree has some chance to escape this hell is what ultimately led me to the conclusion that this movie wasn't good. The acting is fine, and technically it's decent, but I didn't like anything about this movie or any of the characters. If I want to see stories about people doing awful things to one another, all I need do is turn the news on. I expect more of fiction than to merely tell me how *beep* up some people that I don't like are, or that drugs can *beep* people up and lead to misery. I know that - now show me something that has at least some revelatory quality to it. That would be a big step in the right direction, unlike Winter's Bone, which just seemed content to revel in s*** and try to pass it off as art.

Bring me four fried chickens and a Coke

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That's harsh. She cares about her family and has some friends & neighbors who are decent folks. They aren't living in hell, though it is rough.

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Then your OP post should have been: "I don't like the story".
As far as movies are concerned (discounting the subject matter), this was a well directed and performed movie.

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I thought it was a good movie. It helped make JL's career too.

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Maybe you should only stick to hollywood movies if you need epiphanies and everyone learning a big lesson at the end.
I'm not sure what your problem with Ree is, she is single handed providing food, warmth and love for her brother and sister who do not have a mother or father to rely on, she relies on her street smarts and is the only tower of strength for her siblings but apparently this isnt 'smart or appealing' enough for you, what did you want to see her doing?

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I guess that for me, a movie (not a documentary) is something to entertain, and there was no entertainment in this movie. If I want the stark bleak reality of poverty in America, I can drive 5 minutes from my home to a rural area much like what's in this movie, or I could watch the news and hear about any number of similar awful situations.

I don't need my 'entertainment' to lecture me on a subset of my culture that I'm already brutally aware of from a personal perspective. Fiction (good fiction) needs to transcend mere reality. We all know that the world is filled with awfulness - show me something that makes the human condition mean something more than just another poor girl caught in an endless cycle. Sorry, but I expect more of a movie than mere reflection. There was no artistry or message in this.

Bring me four fried chickens and a Coke

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RhodyDave,
This is a semi-documentary, yes. Your willingness to admit that folks living in similar conditions exist in your region (Rhode Island?) is honesty that I admire.

There is a noticeable "snootiness" in this thread from apparent Europeans and Yankees who seem to assume that all USA Southerners live and behave as shown in this film. According to those commenters, Southerners are living a century behind advanced folk in the urban North and in Europe. (We'd first have to define fully the word "advanced" to continue this conversation!)

There are areas of the world where subsistence farming (subsistence agriculture) exists today in Europe and Alaska (BTW, that state is not in the southern USA).

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Dave,

I suggest you do a little research prior to seeing movies in the future. It was pretty apparent to me by reading the back of the box at the library, that this movie was not going to be about redemption.
It is more like real life. For these people there are not many happy endings.

How would you suggest this girl get out of this endless cycle? Many people are not even aware that this kind of life exists. It is good for us to know.

How many meth families have good lives filled with epiphanies, do you think? The movie would have been ridiculously unbelievable if it had a happy ending.

There was plenty of artistry in this movie. Nominated for best picture, by the way.

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I prefer not to limit what a movie is "supposed" to be in such a rigid manner

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If you didn't like it, then that's your opinion which is fine. I don't think you can say though that it's a bad film because it doesn't fit your narrow view of what a film is meant to be. A film can be anything.

As as far as you also putting it down because you know about that lifestyle, that's also not relevant as to whether this is a good film or not. And it might be good to realise that you are in the extreme minority in this respect, amongst the global population. The way these people live may facinate many other viewers.

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You are absolutely right and I completely agree with your review of this bleak, awful movie. That's probably why critics love it.. it's bleak and about poor people. It's politically correct to praise films like this.

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Or, you know, it's infinitely more realistic in its depictions of people and situations and it has nothing to do with political correctness you clueless, non-sequitous, out-of-touch fool.

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So, movies about poor folks should not be made?

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when you say movies are made to entertain you are putting them in a box and thus limiting creativity.

I personally found 2001 to be a very slow and boring movie and I didn't find it entertaining at all but I agree with every body that its a masterpiece....it did not entertain me but it got me thinking about a lot of things pertaining to where we came from and where we are going and it wasn't a documentary




I think that movies are made to make us react and that's all.

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"...a movie (not a documentary) is something to entertain, and there was no entertainment in this movie."

HA!!!! Man. If I ever have the slightest inkling that humanity is not doomed and humans aren't devolving at a frighteningly rapid rate, I just climb on a message board (usually IMDb) and go, "ahh yes, there it is, we're so F-ed." Thank you. I've recently been worried I was falling for some false hope. You've brought me back to reality.

Ah God! And there's more!!! "There was no artistry or message in this." Hahahaha. Priceless!!! Where can I read more writings of yours??? I need entertainment while I'm sick.

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You're attempting to define and limit art, which itself is robbing and destroying what art truly is. Are there things which are definitely not art? Sure; things without merit aren't art. Things like the mad haphazard brushstrokes of random colors with no actual effort or thought put in that the creator claims to be a "gateway to my soul", that's not art. It's without meaning, without effort or creativity, it has no message, no point. It's senseless chaos. It doesn't *show* senseless chaos, it *is* senseless chaos. A movie that's strictly improv and jump cuts from random cameras at random angles at random intervals, that's not art. That's chaos.
Michael Bay films, likewise, aren't art. There's the same lack of merit and effort and thought and heart put in as the haphazard strokes. Aside from the designs and effects work in Transformers, I'll honestly grant them that, I thought they were beautifully rendered and designed. Art makes you feel, makes you think, his movies don't do that, but what Michael Bay films do is entertain. His movies are entertainment.
Entertainment =/= art, art =/= entertainment. They may overlap, they may not, but the presence of one does not require the other, and the lack of one does not imply the presence of the other. For instance there are plenty of movies both artistic and entertaining (Fight Club), plenty of movies that are just one or the other (Fish Tank, Back to the Future), and plenty of movies that are neither (The Room, unless you count "so bad its good" as entertaining). But that doesn't mean one is inherently better than another, sans the films that are devoid of both. It simply means they're different, different in what purpose they serve and at what time they're more appealing, but to say one is better than another one must look at each film on its own merits, not whether its artistic or serves simply for entertainment. That means nothing, and anyone who claims that art/entertainment is inherently superior is at best misled and at worst a liar, trying to limit expression and the meaning of expression.
Now, this movie had merit, unlike the random strokes on canvas or the pointless shots on celluloid, and it was unflinching in that merit as Ree. It was well acted, well shot, the dialogue well written. There was intensity, it *felt* real. I felt disgusted after watching it, but not the hollow disgusted I get from gore-ror films like Saw, but the sort of disgusted that comes from knowing this *is* reality, that it happens, that there's nothing that can be done about it. We are as helpless to stop it in reality as we were to stop it in the film. We're just along for the uncomfortable ride.
Art is meant to make you feel, make you think, and it has merit, effort, and thought put in. This movie had that thought, that effort, its merit comes from what it shows you. Is it a story that *needed* to be told? I can't answer that, but given that shows you just as much a side of the human condition as any of those happy-ass movies you'd like to see, and it does so in an infinitely more real, more poignant manner, I'd say that it is one that should be told.
Art is meant to make you feel and think, and that's exactly what this movie does. It's uncomfortable, but it's the right kind of uncomfortable. If you felt uncomfortable (a feeling not derived from the over- and mis-use of gore like most modern horror) then you gave a damn about the characters, their predicament, which speaks to how well-executed the movie was; the acting, the directing, the writing. Hating the story, hating how their lives play out, is exactly the point, feeling uncomfortable is exactly the point. It made you think about reality, it made you reflect on life, on experiences you say you have, you saw them from a third person perspective and , it made you feel a given way about that reality and those experiences.
You say that isn't art, but that's exactly what art is supposed to do; elicit a response that has meaning, whether that response is good or bad. Art isn't all sunshine and flowers, art isn't just the pretty side of the human condition, and that this shows you the horrors of reality, how disgusting some things, some people, can be, that doesn't make this any less worthy of being called art. And the fact that it does that, that it shows you an unflinching look at the reality of life for many people, then that makes it as worthy of being called art as any, and makes the creators of this work braver than most.
Fishtank. Fishtank and Shame are, for me, two of my favorite examples of truly artistic cinema, not in spite of, but because of the way they make me feel, because they *can* make me feel that way.

Rarely would I say this because opinions can rarely be objectively one thing or another, but your opinion is in point of fact flat out wrong, for all the reasons pointed out above. You may not like the way you feel after watching it, but with everything that's behind it, how it achieved making you feel that way, that's exactly what makes it art.

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Movies are art. Or should be. Art is not required to entertain. Art is certainly not required to entertain YOU, to still be considered art. I am "entertained" by the Jerry Springer show? Does that make it art?
You sound like an elitist, condescending jerk.

If it's thought provoking, it's art. It doesn't have to entertain YOU (or anyone else) to be a "good movie."

What it is, is the best film of the second decade of this century, thus far.

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How old are you? 12? For a budget of $2million this film delivers more artistry than many films that cost 20 times that and it doesn't feature any pat moralizing which is one of its strengths. It does take viewers into another world and does so with a taut script and excellent performances.

You say a movie is meant to entertain - maybe Frozen is more your thing. I don't think you're equipped to appreciate this film.

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Completely agree with what Rhody said. Movies should be an escape from reality or at least educational in my opinion.

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Well I enjoyed it but my wife who watched at the same time thought it was very poor, slow and unlikeable. The main character certainly wasn’t likeable but the cause she was on was an honourable one. She would have run away in a second if the army would have had her but that was only to get the money on offer. The recruitment officer told it as it was and she had no other option to try and resolve the situation by either finding her dad or finding out he was dead. Not a spoiler as it’s pretty obvious what this film is about. It’s also hard to care about a character when you don't like anything about them or their family but the two kids were innocents and deserved a chance at least. You wouldn’t want to live next door to her that’s for sure. It’s hard to enjoy a film when the people in it are portrayed as badly as those living in this so called rural community where cooking drugs is a normality but it is an intriguing film that unwinds in a slow pace, but you do need to stay with it to find out what happened to the dad, Jessop. In that respect I thought it was very good as I definitely wanted to find out his fate. I also wanted the police officer to get a bullet through his head but that would have been asking too much.

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I loved the main character. I felt like she portrayed a picture of sacrifice and love. She obviously loved her siblings and her mom enough to do everything that she did. You could tell that she was so much older and wiser than her years. If she were my neighbor, I'd be proud.

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Same here. She didn't choose to be born into the world she lived in, and at the age of seventeen she couldn't leave it without abandoning her siblings. That was the point of the scene where she is trying to join the army. Imagine growing up in a community where for generations the only viable industry has been the manufacture of illegal drugs (moonshine, weed and now meths). It's hardly surprising that she is tough as nails (or 'unlikable', as some of these posters would have it). Her courage in trying to protect her family at enormous risk to herself is truly admirable. However, if she was my neighbour, I would be living in the same world, so I would be wanting her to stop before my own family got caught in the crossfire. Heroes like Ree are few and far between, and I don't have that kind of courage.

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Movies should be an escape from reality or at least educational in my opinion.

I hope you mean, movies that you want to see. Movies should be able to be about anything, and not always end happily. Personally, I really enjoyed this, and a lot of people did, but I hope you're not saying it shouldn't have been made. It told a story, and told it well.

I do actually think the ending was happy within the film, and was surprised and pleased. In that environment, some money and a house isn't so bad. Instead of Prince Charming galloping to the rescue on a white steed, we got a bounty hunter in a Lexus which was good enough for me.

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It didn't manage to teach me anything, it didn't draw me in and make me feel what she was feeling, and it managed to make me feel bored.

I'm not saying that Winter's Bone does not qualify to be called a movie, I'm just saying that it failed to do what a movie is supposed to do, which is to be enjoyable. This just wasn't enjoyable to me. It was tasteless.

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" . . it failed to do what a movie is supposed to do, which is to be enjoyable."

And the OP indicates that movies are simply to entertain. **SIGH**

Maybe we just define "enjoyable" or "entertain" differently. When I hear these words, I think of something pleasant and upbeat that produces at least a few grins, or maybe "WOW!!" moments and keeps me diverted while I eat my popcorn. And, hey, I loves me a good enjoyable, entertaining movie.

But isn't it obvious that screenwriters and directors aren't always going for "entertainment" any more than a lot of the best authors are? If it isn't obvious, that tells me you haven't really considered film as legitimate art form; it's more a diversion and/or comfort food. I think the vast majority of people everywhere view it the same way. And that's fine . . your time is yours to spend any way you want . . but it's not always the filmmakers' fault you didn't get the type of movie you wanted. I can't imagine reading the description or any reviews of "Winter's Bone" and thinking that was the most "entertaining" option available.

To paraphrase the great Kit Ramsay, you were looking for a movie, not a film.

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I have meddled with the primal forces of nature and I must atone.

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I want to 'like' this comment (and others you made previously in this thread) a thousand times.

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Cinema's purpose is definitely NOT to be educational at all. In the same way not all movies are supposed to be entertaining or enjoyable. There are many films that are considered to be great and yet they are very depressing.

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Sometimes life doesn't have any easy answers.
Sometimes stuff happens which doesn't have a deep meaning or teach us anything.
Sometimes people write books or make films which reflect the mess of human life.
Sometimes those books and films don't spoon feed you their meanings or want to patronise people by giving them the questions and the answers.
If you want happy endings and everything working out in the end stick to Disney.

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Sometimes a movie deals with the difficult issues in life well.
Sometimes a movie does more than hold up a mirror to society.
This movie didn't.

I don't care for Disney movies and don't demand happy endings. I do demand that a movie I watch be either entertaining or engaging. This was neither. This was slice-of-life film-making that aspired to no more than reflecting the misery of a segment of America. It shed no new light on a well known subject, and therefore had nothing to add to the genre.

Bring me four fried chickens and a Coke

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I loved the film. But it actually has a happy ending...

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I think I'll dissect your film analysis backwards.

First off, you obviously missed the very obvious character arc Ree goes through. Instead of joining the Army, she decides that it's better to take care of her siblings. At first she takes care of them out of duty/pity and by the end of the film she sees the true value of family. She sees the remorse in her uncle's eyes when he plays the banjo and blah blah blah..you get the idea..

and I personally liked Ree's character. The fact that you didn't like any of the characters doesn't mean they are all unlikeable. For instance, Ree's friend, the girl with the baby, helps her many times throughout the film. Ree's neighbor is constantly helping her out by giving her food; shows she has a good heart, and that makes her likeable...but either way it doesn't really matter if you like the characters, just says something about you since you can't seem to identify with any of them (probably because you can't get past what's on the surface, perhaps because you value spectacle over art).

I also noticed that the film had an atmosphere that was similar to a Noir film. While Ree investigates her father's whereabouts, we as the audience live through her and feel the paranoid/uncertain environment that surrounds her.

There are a lot of interesting things about this film that caught my eye, and I've only seen it once. (Must see it again so I can give a more accurate review!)

O and Rhody Dave...why do you have a movie blog when your film analysis is so poor? (That's a fair question, considering your lack of insight.)

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Painfulmayhem - I hope your superiority complex takes you far in life. Obviously you'll become famous and regarded as the ultimate authority in film review.

But ultimately, I couldn't care less about what you think of my analysis or anything else for that matter. You are fun to laugh at though, so at least there's that.

Bring me four fried chickens and a Coke

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And now you've demonstrated that your opinion is wholly unworthy of merit as you can't appreciate another, respectfully-delivered (mostly, he did take several entirely uncalled for jabs) point of view. It paints you as spineless, your reply seems to demonstrate that your opinions hold no weight or value of their own as you can't support them when they come under fire and you can't so much as show an ounce of decorum or respect when someone who engages you from the other side of the debate does in fact grant you such (leaving aside the inappropriate jabs, the poster brought up several key points which you don't even address, instead choosing to focus on ad hominem remarks rather than defending your thesis).

You're arrogant, and moreover hypocritical; speaking of others' superiority complex while your text seemingly depicts you standing ten feet above everyone else tossing out bread crumbs of approval or scorn.

I wish the same could be said of you, that you're fun to laugh at. But you don't even provide that. You're just all around unpleasant to read, like a Dean Koontz novel.

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You accusing someone else of having a superiority complex. That's rich, dude.
I guess The Grapes Of Wrath is worthy of being called "a good movie" or "art" either.

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Not worthy I meant.

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Umm . . Mr. Mayhem, she didn't "decide" to stay home and raise her bro & sis. The Army recruiter rejected her. She showed so little awareness of how the world outside the homestead worked, she thought she could take the kiddies with her to basic training. She also thought it would be OK if they (as opposed to a parent) signed a waiver allowing her, at 17 years old, to enlist before she turned 18.

I guess she'd never been to a job interview. Never start the interview by asking "I need money; So, when do you pay me my signing bonus?" I thought that was the purpose of the scene; to show how insular her world had been and to reinforce her lack of real options.

I hate to say it, because I generally agree with you about "Winter's Bone," but misreading a key scene so badly (or forgetting about it, maybe) renders your charges about Rhody Dave's poor analysis hollow. Sorry, bro. There's subjective opinion and there's objective fact, and you just whiffed on the latter.

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I have meddled with the primal forces of nature and I must atone.

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I thought it was a very good film, and Jennifer Lawrence and the rest of the cast gave great performances.

Not all movies are sunshine and light, butterflies and unicorns. This was a slice of real life, and it was damn well done.

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lol

I was just making a simple point, I didn't really fully analyze the scene..but it seems you were so caught up in proving me wrong you screwed up too..lol...your analysis is dead-on for the most part but I ultimately regard it as her decision and her arc..it's just that the recruiter gave her a reality check and later when she is 18, she will probably think twice about trying to join

....either way.....I think everyone here is missing the point which is to have a discussion...this isn't a competition..I can care less about your insults.. I prefer critiquing movies in proper formats like essays (since one can back up their analysis with proper facts/citations)

but every once in a while I speak out against the RhodyDave's of the world who enjoy giving advice they should probably take themselves... be positive guys, negativity is ugly :)

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I don't think the Army rejected her.

She also thought it would be OK if they (as opposed to a parent) signed a waiver allowing her, at 17 years old, to enlist before she turned 18.


My comprehension of this^ was that she was being facetious.

Army recruiters - my cynical view - target the poor and uneducated, like a pyramid scheme. Wild promises of financial stability for life and world travel, anything, whatever it takes to get them to the initial interview.

After wiping away her illusions concerning basic training, the final blow came that without parental consent... Her mother was incapable, her father missing, her disillusionment was complete.

Then the recruiter threw out a bone, i.e, a sibling could give consent.

She was smart enough, and knew full well that her younger brother and sister would not be eligible. That was her being defiant, knowing she couldn't sign up no matter what.




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[deleted]

Not to mention that it is really slow, void of any content, and extremely boring. I found it really annoying; and I didn't like the acting either. From start to finish almost nothing happens in this movie. Ree goes to house #1, asks about her father; goes to house #2, asks about her father....and so on. This movie actually made me mad when it was over because I really felt like it was a waste of time and wasn't even interesting while I was watching it.

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I have to agree with the detractors that a movie that does not please anyone is essentially worthless. After all, what good is art, if no one wants it?

But I think what they don't realize, and the rest of us are not communicating well, is that some of us actually ENJOYED the movie, and were not the least bit bored. THAT's why the movie was made, for those of us who would find it entertaining.

I loved the story and the atmosphere. I loved the acting. I loved being immersed in that life (for a little while, anyway). Yes, it was tough, but it was also beautiful, and I thought a lot of the people had caring and warmth underneath their tough exteriors. Even the archvillain ultimately showed some sense of fairness, and didn't want to see Ree and her family starve.

Others may see it differently, but that's what I saw, and it made for a pleasant couple of hours for me.


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morganseer» Yes, it was tough, but it was also beautiful, and I thought a lot of the people had caring and warmth underneath their tough exteriors. Even the archvillain ultimately showed some sense of fairness, and didn't want to see Ree and her family starve.


So you know where I'm coming from, I did enjoy this movie. But I don't think we enjoyed it for the same reasons. I enjoyed it because I am close with several people who could get lost in this movie.

The arch-villain is completely okay with a teenage girl, who was not hurting anyone, except maybe hurting his feelings, get beat to a pulp because she wanted to know what happened to her missing father.

Well, he does throw her some money. Because of this you are good because you say this showed some sense of fairness. Except for Ree and the bondsman, I don't think anyone was particularly fair. Actually, I thought quite the opposite. Most characters in this film were very unfair and completely full of themselves. They took a life because they didn't want to have to answer for their actions, and the whole community was okay with it. But you see good in them.

We are very different. I won't cry for the idiot bully because he is poor. Many poor people know how to behave.

Anyone can stare at the unfortunate and get fixated. Maybe that is what is happening here. I don't think they are enjoying watching a teenager made to cut the hands off of her dead father or lose her home and remaining family. If they had any good in them at all someone would have returned his body. If they were just totally disgusting someone would have returned his hands. They thought a different road was the one to travel.

I can't find the good in these people. Normally this is where I'd say I'm glad you could find the good. But this time, I wish you were a bit different. Almost all of these people were either guilty of murder, or complicit in the crime.

Almost every last one of them should be rotting in prison. But you saw beauty.

Life is like Wikipedia: There are no Facts, Just Popular Opinion

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Tell us what you thought of Chinatown, because this film has more in common with it than anything you are looking for in it.

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I have to agree. Although it has unlikeable characters, the film plods along and the rich background of music to at least set the tone is absent. It works as a semi-documentary, or a film along the lines of original indy film of the 70s - this is what it is, and the stark, poverty is the art.

A somber reminder of the vast emptiness of lives that actually exist. But, this sort've had one-dimensional characters, and i feel there is probably more to people from that environment than this film showed.

It was interesting to note the feral existence of Sweet Pea (Jennifer Lawrence), and how it was a partial blueprint for the Katniss Everdeen character in Hunger Games. The actual skinning of the squirrel was a tad better than character acting.

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