MovieChat Forums > 1883 (2021) Discussion > 1883? More like 1853...

1883? More like 1853...

posted 3 years ago by Theo (5)
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Maybe I missed some dialogue back in episode one, but why didn't they just take the train? Transcontinental rail service had been established to Sacramento back in 1859, and travel by rail was common by 1883. As far as the cost of a ticket, it would have been cheaper than buying a wagon and team of horses, plus supplies for a 2000-mile trek across the great plains. AND, without all the dying and stuff. Need to get across the mountains before winter? No problem.

Also, they had built a suspension bridge across the Brazos back in 1870, outside Waco. You could look it up if interested. My point is, the American West had changed remarkably in the 30-year span of time between 1853 and 1883. The Donner party had their tailgater back in 1847. This show is really an 1850s setting, not 1883. Everything makes sense if you set it back 30 years. Well, everything except Elsa taking a Comanche lover and her dad being cool with it.

But then, you don't get the Civil War PTSD back story for the main characters, and I'm guessing (never having watched the show) that at some point during 'Yellowstone' Kostner makes a statement about how his great granddaddy came out there by wagon train back in 1883 and his family has held that land ever since. So, 'canon'. And they're locked into the date. But none of this story makes any sense, really, for 1883.

I liked the 'Thomas' character, and it was nice that he made it to Oregon. But again, the Willamette Valley had been well populated by 1883, and it was not the pristine wilderness they depicted, where Thomas and his white common-law wife and her two sons could stake out a homesteader claim and live in peace. Oregon received statehood in 1859, and in 1876 had built a three-story brick capitol building with a giant brass dome on top, right smack dab in the middle of the Willamette Valley, in the city of Salem.

Here's a fascinating and disturbing little nugget from history. What else Oregon had was, a 'Black Exclusion' clause written into their state constitution, prohibiting black people from moving to or settling in their lovely state. Although technically invalidated by the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, it remained on Oregon's books until 1925. 'Starbucks' is probably not real proud of that, but it's true nonetheless. I don't see that as a happy ending for Thomas.

My point is, if Taylor Sheridan wants to write about history, he should start by reading some of it.

Also, I'm not sure how a group of German immigrants wound up in East Texas in 1883. There was an immigration station in Galveston, but it didn't open until 1906.

[–] Theo (5) 3 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Mustang (5447) 3 years ago

I read a bit about the Oregon trail the other day and also noted that there should have been rail options at that time.

I find the race relations in this show to be rather modern and curious. Thomas for a start. The German immigrants probably had never seen a black man before. They aren't curious about him at the very least? He seems readily accepted by all around him and I just don't think that would be the case.

No one is surprised about a black man riding with an all white crew. The Gypsy woman has latched on to him and she no doubt sees him as strong but even she must know once they reach civilization that their relationship won't be accepted by whites or blacks.

And Elsa cavorting with an Indian?! Sorry it wouldn't have happened, at least not in full view and with consent of her father. When she is making out with him during the twister and the two white guys with them just accept it? No they wouldn't have done that especially since one of them is sweet on her.

His tribe would not be ok with it either. And he certainly would not have been ok losing a horse race to a woman let alone engaging in a race with a woman!

[–] Theo (5) 3 years ago

I had to look some of this stuff up, but the Southern Pacific connected from California to New Orleans in 1883 on the southern route. They would have had to cross the freaking tracks in their wagons. It just makes no sense.

As to race relations, there actually were quite a few black cowboys out west. It was a fair option for black men following the Civil War. But by 1883, I think that sergeant's jacket Thomas had been sweating in since Gettysburg would be a deal breaker for the ladies. I don't wear the Vietnam-era fatigue jacket they issued me in 1974 either, for much the same reason.

You could maybe make a case that, as a gypsy, Naomi was considered 'untouchable' although I think of that as more a European prejudice. But she was way too hot to be ignored. Nobody was going to watch her riding along with a 60-year-old black man and think, "Meh, she's probably one of them gypsies." Their story ends very badly.

And you're right, if Elsa's dad caught her banging a Comanche in the bushes he would have shot the two of them with a single bullet. And it wasn't just a white/indian thing. Most of the other tribes hated the Comanches even worse than they hated the whites. As to the horse race, he wouldn't have lost...

[–] Mustang (5447) 3 years ago

By the way the ammo belt Thomas wears the rounds look a little big to me. Do they actually fit his rifle or is he doing a Rambo with the M60 round belt while toting an M16?

Yep there were black and Hispanic cowboys as well as some Frontier women too. I just don't buy Elsa fitting that. Nor do I buy that everyone around them would be so accepting. That jacket of Thomas' is rather clean too. Nearly 30 years since the Civil war ended..

Yeah Naomi is way hotter than Elsa. She has slightly darker skin and yes she would be an outcast as far as the German immigrants go but would be hot property for the cowboys.

Yes I read about the Comanche's they were the most brutal. I actually suspect he let her win the race..

[–] r5d4d2 (696) 3 years ago

"Nearly 30 years since the Civil war ended.."
- the Civil War ended in 1865. 18 years before 1883.
- to me, Thomas' coat looks more post Civil War US Cavalry style, as does his hat. I think he is supposed to be a former Buffalo Soldier. That would not exclude him from having fought in the CW.

I too find Elsa's character unbearably annoying and unrealistic. She ain't no Calamity Jane.

[–] Mustang (5447) 3 years ago

Shitty maths on my part.

Yes Thomas is a former Buffalo Soldier https://western-series.fandom.com/wiki/Thomas
I had an issue with his uniform as well but as most of the characters are Civil War vets I figured he was too, you never know when it's Sheridan's creative interpretation of history or the way the character is supposed to be.

If they at least had Elsa slowly learn some of the stuff she does, fail a few times etc but no. She is an expert .

[–] NoEasyBuckets (350) 3 years ago

I'm pretty sure in episode one when the idea of going by train is brought up, they say it would be too expensive. Not saying that would have been true or not, but that was the explanation. I think when they get the cook they also tell him he can get on a train and leave after they arrive.

[–] ATG6 (3000) 2 years ago

Yeah, the German immigrants might not have had the cash to take the train, but the Duttons clearly did. But maybe they weren't sure where they were going and wanted to see the West first hand at a more leisurely pace to help decide where to stake their claim.

Black cowboys were common in the West after the Civil War, and it was a lot freer than the South (or the North for that matter). But Oregon was a poor choice, as noted.

And if a Comanche wanted a white wife, he would have just kidnapped one.

[–] FootOfDavros (8248) 2 years ago

Is this related to 1899, i.e. a prequel?

[–] liscarkat (18589) 2 years ago

Transcontinental rail service to Sacramento wasn't established until 1869, but that doesn't change what you're saying. Your point still holds true.