MovieChat Forums > Inception (2010) Discussion > Why doesnt he simply...

Why doesnt he simply...

posted 8 years ago by rootmebabe
50 replies | jump to latest

...move his kids to Europe, instead of going through all that to get to the US?
I mean, I understand there wouldn't be a movie if he did so, but is there something stopping him from doing that? The grandparents surely have the right to take the children abroad, so.. ?

[–] realbullet 8 years ago

After his conviction, his mother-in-law was given custody of the children. He could not simply move his kids to Europe without her permission -- because of their role in her daughter's death, she did not care for him or her ex-husband.

👿 I know something you don't know ... I am ambidextrous!

[–] rootmebabe 8 years ago

Where is it said that they are divorces?

[–] realbullet 8 years ago

Where is it said that they are divorces?

It's not said -- it's something that you can piece together since Miles lives in France while his wife is in America living with his grandchildren.

We don't have to be told everything in the movie. It simply needs to make sense. The grandmother is the court appointed guardian of the children and it is pretty obvious that she doesn't like Cobb from the early conversation over the phone.

Children are not permitted to leave the country just because they have a ticket. They need approval from their guardian.

👿 I know something you don't know ... I am ambidextrous!

[–] Jake1976 8 years ago

Its seems like his mother inlaw also blame him as well.

[–] criztu 8 years ago

...move his kids to Europe, instead of going through all that to get to the US?

This movie is very complex.

If you think that Dominique was a secret agent who got into other people's heads, stealing or implanting ideas in their minds, you're lost.

Everything you see in this movie, up until the last scene where Dominique goes with his kids, is a succession of scenarios, unfolding inside the subject's mind.

All the commotion is caused by one fleeting thought, a doubt, that formed in the subject's mind, as he was waiting for his wife to set the table in the dining room. You should know the thought, as Dominique talks about it:
what if her love for him is not real?

That's it. That's the premise of the entire story. A dude has a simple thought: what if her love for me is not real?

From this question, develops the rest of the story.

The movie begins with Dominique almost drowning on the shore of his subconscious. We are there, watching him. We are inside the subject's mind from the very first frame of the movie.

Nothing is happening for real, until the last scene.

As the subject doubts her love for him, she is imagined as a traitor - in the first dream at Saito's side, as an adulteress - in the second dream about the love nest, and so on and so forth.

The subject is exploring the consequences of his doubt, in mirrored, fractal "dreams", imagining all the pain and sorrow, of losing her, because he doubted her.

The woman we see in the subject's "dreams" is not the real her, but a shade, far from the real her, in all her complexity. All tabu thoughts the subject has for her, are embodied in Mal - from mal = malady, malaise, maladjustment, malfunction, malediction, malevolence.

As the subject allows the initial doubt towards her, to unfold to its dire consequences, he experiences a catharsis. He sheds all his evil thoughts about her, by killing her shade, and absolving himself from the guilt of doubting her, through another institution of the psyche - the omnipotent Saito (from Japanese "purification").

Freed from the doubt he had towards her, the subject is now able to go with his kids, to the dining room, and have dinner, as his beloved wife finished setting the table.

[–] the-author 8 years ago

his beloved wife finished setting the table.

that's his mother-in-laws voice.

Anyway, what's your view on their conversations...neither one ever says 'I love you'. Is there a reason?
Why is Mal at Saito's side in the beginning?

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

that's his mother-in-laws voice.

You never see a mother in law. How do you know that's the mother-in-law's voice?
Cobb's conversation with the father and with the kids, only happens in the mind of the subject.

Cobb says to Mal - you're nothing like my real wife. I can't imagine you in all your complexity.
The same happens with his father and his kids - he only imagines them. He imagines going to Mombassa, where he imagines there's two houses very close to eachother, just so he can have a difficult time trying to go through...

Back to his imagined wife - Mal - you see repeated scenes with Mal in the kitchen. It may seem ridiculous, but the whole story unfolds in the mind of the subject, while his wife is preparing dinner.
Actually, this is the one redeeming aspect of this movie - that it's all a passing thought, in the mind of a man waiting for dinner to be ready.
Perhaps Hitchcock's Vertigo would help you understand Inception. it's basically the same movie - nobody is who you thought they were.

Anyway, what's your view on their conversations...neither one ever says 'I love you'.

the premise of this story is the initial "idea" that the subject has - that her love is not real.
therefore, the movie is played on the note "she don't love me". Even his wake up song is "I regret nothing".

Why is Mal at Saito's side in the beginning?

Mal - from malaise, malady, from mal=bad, evil, wrong, is the embodiment of the Jungian shadow - a collection of feelings and emotions we can't express in the conscious life, because they are tabu.
eg. you see your girlfriend smiling to some dude. You automatically have sadistic impulses - like killing that dude, and punishing her to death, or leaving her, let her suffer forever, for smiling at that dude. These impulses, we suppress or repress, into the unconscious, but if you don't release the sadistic impulses outside of you, they find expression inside of you, in dreams, in unconscious behavior.

Mal at Saito's side in the japanese castle scene, is treason. the subject imagines his wife as betraying him with another man.
then the subject imagines he goes after Saito, and you have the love nest scene.
then Mal betraying him again, in the hotel scene. The subject punishes her by having her jump off the ledge.
then the subject takes Mal in their limbo, to commit suicide again, on the rail tracks
she attacks him on the french bridge scene,
she kidnaps Fischer jr to compromise the heist
she attacks him in the elevator scene

Cobb tells Mal in the cathartic scene - you are but a (jungian)shadow of my real wife.
If you have basic knowledge of psychology - you will recognize all the metaphors in Inception:

catharsis - Fischer jr has a catharsis vis-a-vis his father. Cobb has a catharsys vis-a-vis his wife
unresolved conflict and the father figure - Fischer has to meet his father in the dream, so he can be his own man. Cobb meets his father figure, who tells us clearly that this all inception thingy is a fantasy.
Ariadne and the labyrinth - the psychotherapist and the psyche. The subject's imagined father even allows Cobb to spell it out for us : I navigate people's minds - that is psychoanalysis.
the monster at the heart of the labyrinth - that is the jungian shadow, the conflicts accumulating in the unconscious.
the unconscious and water as the symbol for it - this is blatantly said by Cobb - when we reached the shore of our subconscious. Therefore, almost every scene in the movie is associated with dipping in waters - that's because all is happening in the unconscious

Nolan goes 100% psychology on us, which is disappointing. But since 99% of the audience has 0% knowledge of psychology, this movie might be a good popularization of psychology.

[–] the-author 8 years ago

Thanks for your reply.

The mother-in-laws voice is the same person that is talking with the children on the phone. It isn't Mal's voice.

As for Mal being with Saito, that doesn't make sense. Their not in the same country. (and Mal is dead, even Arthur confirms this.)Saito has a wife and a girlfriend who lives in the apartment shown in the beginning. (in the prequel, they get info from her in her sleep.)

a man waiting for dinner to be ready.

What? No. He was waiting to see his children.

Vertigo ...is basically the same movie

Again, No! Not by a longshot. I would suggest you watch Last Night in Marinebad and Paprika, and Dreamscape to better help you grasp this film.

I think you imagine too much beyond the film itself.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

The mother-in-laws voice is the same person that is talking with the children on the phone. It isn't Mal's voice.

The only time we hear the female voice, is when Cobb is talking to his kids on the phone.
I was explaining to you that Mal is only imagined by Cobb, as he clearly states in the cathartic scene. Mal as we see and hear, is nothing like Cobb's wife, he says it, loud and clear.
You say that the female voice in the scene with Cobb talking to his kids, is his mother-in-law, but you give no argument to support that.

As for Mal being with Saito, that doesn't make sense. Their not in the same country.

You really don't get it. Mal being with Saito, is a dream. Cobb then wakes up in the "love nest" level, which is also a dream! Then Cobb wakes once more, in the "Saito in the train" scene, which Cobb thinks is reality.

But that's not reality, because Cobb is in limbo since the very first scene of the movie, when we see him nearly drowned, on the "shore of his subconscious".

[–] the-author 8 years ago

I did give support when I said "It isn't Mal's voice." in that final scene.
It isn't Marion Cottilard's voice, the person who plays Mal, if that is more clear.
It is stated that the kids are with their grandmother, from the context of the film most agree it is Mal's mother.

Cobb is in limbo since the very first scene of the movie

The very first scene in the movie is a flash forward of Cobb meeting Saito in limbo in the END of the film. It's pretty obvious. Nolan often has scenes like this in his films. Don't let that get you confused so easily.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

I did give support when I said "It isn't Mal's voice." in that final scene.
It isn't Marion Cottilard's voice, the person who plays Mal, if that is more clear.
It is stated that the kids are with their grandmother, from the context of the film most agree it is Mal's mother.

Mal that we see, is "just a shade of my real wife" - stated by Cobb. So, if you expect the voice of the real wife to be anything like the voice of Mal, you are in error. Not that we ever see or hear her, in the movie.
You do see an old woman, in the limbo scene, but she doesn't look anything like Mal.

It is never stated that the kids are with their grandmother! You only see Cobb talking to his kids about a grandma, but you can't say if that is reality or dream!
If you understand that everything up to the last scene - reunion with kids, is imagined by Cobb, then you understand that the conversation with his kids, is also imagined.

It is revealed to us that Cobb is dreaming, when Mal confronts him:
-I know what's real, Mal
-no creeping doubts, not feeling persecuted, Dom? chased around the globe by corporations and police forces, the way projections persecute the dreamer?

The scene where Cobb just got to the Japanese hotel after the Saito job, and talks to his children, is a dream, in which he feels persecuted, prevented from having a decent chat with his kids.

The very first scene in the movie is a flash forward of Cobb meeting Saito in limbo in the END of the film.

How do you know it's a flash forward? I tell you it means exactly "here starts Cobb's dream".

[–] the-author 8 years ago

Mal that we see, is "just a shade of my real wife" - stated by Cobb. So, if you expect the voice of the real wife to be anything like the voice of Mal, you are in error. Not that we ever see or hear her, in the movie.

This is wrong on so many levels. The Mal we see is part of Dom's subconscious (because the 'real' Mal is dead. Athur verifies this. That is why she is just a shade, a made-up version of his former wife. The real Mal (prior to her death) was the same person...voice, appearance, etc. But Dom can only imagine what she would or would not do or say. At one point, Dom created a 'perfect' version of Mal, but she was too unrealistic and he would know he was dreaming. He tried to suppress Mal altogether, but this version of Mal keeps entering his dreams due to his guilt, which is why he needs catharsis.

the kids are with their grandmother

this information is from both the telephone call and from his father-in-law, who takes a gift to give to the kids when he goes back home. the kids are with their grandmother, his wife. Its such a given, there's no point on spending more time on this point.

How do you know it's a flash forward?

It is a scene from when Dom goes into limbo to rescue Saito near the film's ending. Saito even says he remembers the top from a long time ago. then he slowly remembers Cobb.

This film is rather deep on many levels(no pun intended.) It may take you some time to understand it better. These three points can be a starting point for you. You'll come to love the film even more as you should begin to grasp it more and more. don't give up. You'll get there eventually.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

This is wrong on so many levels. The Mal we see is part of Dom's subconscious (because the 'real' Mal is dead. Athur verifies this. That is why she is just a shade, a made-up version of his former wife. The real Mal (prior to her death) was the same person...voice, appearance, etc.

I told you:
the Shadow - Mal is the shade (of the real wife) - is a Jungian psychoanalysis concept, meaning "all things that can't be expressed consciously" - like "doubting that her love is real".
Mal the name means "bad things".
Dominic doubted that his wife loves him.

Christopher Nolan is coding the real story, in a way that is apparent only to the initiated (into psychoanalysis). Unless you have an idea about psychoanalysis, you can't see the real story.

The real story in Inception is that Dominique doubted his wife, and this led to a succession of scenarios in his mind, in which he experiences the consequences of this idea: what if her love for me is not real?

Everything from then on, is imagined:
He experiences betrayal (her love not real) - he imagines her messing up his "job", cheating on him, leaving him, misunderstanding him, committing suicide, trying to kill him, separating him from the kids, accusing him in court, etc.
He experiences guilt - he imagines himself messing with her mind, pushing her to commit suicide, himself as the cause for all those bad things she did.
He experiences confrontation - he imagines a confrontation in which she tells him stuff - "You promised we'll grow old together", etc.
He experiences catharsis - he imagines him and her growing old together, also he imagines her telling him "corporations and grandmothers persecuting you, are not real".

He finally experiences absolution - the name Saito means "purification"; he imagines a powerful tycoon who will bribe the police, the court, the immigration services, the grandma, and restore him back to how things were before the doubt towards his wife crossed his mind.

This movie can mislead only those who have no knowledge of psychoanalysis.

[–] the-author 8 years ago

what if her love for me is not real?

No, it is about his guilt.

Dominique doubted his wife

How does the opening scene of the flash forward reflect that???
I am in strong disagreement.

Everything from then on, is imagined

If that's the way you wish to view it, fine. But that concept is out of harmony with many scenes.

Also, then everything in the film must represent something in the psychoanalysis.
He can just imagine these different places and situations, so the Passiv device seems pointless unless it represents something of significance.
What is the significance of Ari?
Do all characters stand for different aspects of Dom's life?
Did Dom cheat on his wife?
Did she really die?
If not, then his guilt is without real cause and his catharsis is nothing but a small realization that he should not feel guilty.

I enjoy reading fan fiction at times and look forward to your answers. However, I am more impressed by those who make similar claims with the exception that the scene in the basement den in Mombasa was the only real scene. Whether a red herring or reality, I respect their viewpoint.
Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

No, it is about his guilt.

Guilt comes from doubting her "world": "I planted an idea in her mind - that her "world" wasn't real".

The (unpleasant) thought towards his wife, popping up in the subject's mind, is represented as "Dom incepts Mal". He is the origin of all that commotion.

How does the opening scene of the flash forward reflect that???
I am in strong disagreement.

Since frame #1, we are inside the mind of the subject. We join the subject, diving into his unconscious.

That is what his "father" "taught" him: "navigate people's minds" - aka psychoanalysis.

What is the significance of Ari?

In psychoanalysis, Ariadne is the psychotherapist, who assists the patient in understanding his problem. The psychotherapist is the one providing the thread, in and out of the labyrinth of the psyche - https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/200911/why-myths-still-matter-part-three-therapy-and-the-labyrinth

Do all characters stand for different aspects of Dom's life?

They represent Archetypes, most of the characters are clearly fleshed out:

Dominic is God - 'dominic' means "Dominus, God" in Latin; 'cobb' means "cob, head, top" in English.
Saito is the God, Absolution - 'saito' means "purification" in Japanese; he is all powerful - when Dom tells Saito "we were young together", that means Saito is an aspect of Dom. The subject absolves himself of the consequences of (unpleasant) thoughts toward his wife.
Miles is the Threshold Guardian - 'miles' means "soldier, militia, guard" in Latin, also Father figure - mirrored in the Fischer sr. - Fischer jr.
Mal is the Shadow - 'mal' means "bad, abnormal, ill" in English
Ariadne is the psychotherapist - the provider of the thread out of the labyrinth
Arthur is the Herald - I think he's the younger, daring version of Cobb, the call to adventure
Yusuf is ??? - I think he's the alchemist, 'yusuf' meaning "God's power" - another aspect of Dominic, yes.
Eames is the Shapeshifter - the desire for transformation; name Amos means "borne by God"; name James comes from Jacob - supplanter - the one who takes someone else's place

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~mgoodin68/archtype.htm
http://www.stenudd.com/myth/freudjung/jung-archetypes.htm

Observe that the names are not random. They all have etymologies that mean "god, head, top, god's power, borne by god, evil, hero, purification, fisher (of men)".

Observe also, that the protagonist has 2 names - Dominic (god) and Cobb (head). This is not a gratuitous distinction. God (Dom) creates the world, inside the Head (Cobb).

Did Dom cheat on his wife?
Did she really die?
If not, then his guilt is without real cause and his catharsis is nothing but a small realization that he should not feel guilty.

Nope. Nobody cheated, nobody dies. It's all happening inside the head of the subject. Dude had a strong enough, unpleasant thought, towards his wife, and he "navigates" his own psyche, to get rid of the thought.

Mal is the Shadow. The Shadow is "bad things you bury in your unconscious - the (hidden) fantasy world, because you can't express them in the conscious - the real world".
eg. you may be jealous when seeing your girlfriend giving too much attention to another man. You imagine yourself beating that dude up, and throwing her in a dungeon, or stuff like that.
Immediately you feel bad for having such sadistic thoughts, just because she gave a smile to that dude. So you feel bad, guilty, remorse, etc.
You then imagine the consequences of beating that dude up - he will go to the police, police would imprison you, your girlfriend still in the dungeon, nobody knowing, she almost dying, so you tell the police where you keep her locked, they rush to free her, but she still loves you, and she refuses to press charges against you, the dude you beat up admits he had impure thoughts toward her, and he refuse to press charges against you
So the police releases you, everything ends well, you learned a lesson, CATHARSYS.

This "Dom incepted Mal with the idea that her world is not real" is a mirror, working in two ways:
1. the unpleasant thoughts towards the real wife - aka he doubts her sincerity, her love, her loyalty, etc. = in the subject's mind, is created a treacherous, adulteress, evil, insane, malevolent, etc. representation of the real wife; this evil representation is the Shadow.

since the unconscious communicates with the conscious, the Shadow expresses into the real world as unpleasant feelings - consequence of the unpleasant thoughts

2. the subject has to deal with the Shadow - the unpleasant thoughts are becoming a psychological burden = therefore the subject dives into his own unconscious, "navigates his mind", to find the Shadow, and "incept" her, have her "die", because the world in which she "lives" - the unconscious - is not reality.

In other words, the dude has a bad thought towards his wife >>> he feels bad as a consequence >>> so he confronts his bad thought >>> catharsys >>> back to normal life. Wife in the kitchen, preparing dinner. Nobody cheated, nobody died. The whole story takes place in the imagination land.

[–] the-author 8 years ago

I appreciate all your details.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] the-author 8 years ago

Your theory, stated earlier, seems weak though.

by criztu » Thu Jan 28 2016 04:47:35 Flag ▼ | Reply |
IMDb member since September 2004
Post Edited: Thu Jan 28 2016 06:12:43
Cobb is a dude who became mentally unbalanced, following the loss of his wife - either she slept with another dude, or she died, or she simply left him, because he kept failing to bring home the Oscar.

He lives in a delusional reality he concocted inside his disturbed mind, where he's an agent who can enter other people's minds, via a rubber cord coming out of a suitcase, that he straps around his arm. The guilt he experiences from being unable to prevent the loss of his wife, manifests as paranoia - government agents and occult organizations assassins out there tryin to get him.

The cold baths that his psychiatrists administer him, to take him out of the episodic deliriums he sinks into, he sees them as ways of getting out of "dream levels".
His father finally finds the right psychotherapist for him, in the person of what Cobbs sees as "student architect", who knows how to build "labyrinths". Like you need to be an architect, to build a labyrinth...
Ariadne helps him in one last "heist", where she incidentally helps him throw Mal, the very wife he loves, out the window.
Then he wakes up in the "real world", like from a terrible "dream", and no more occult organization assassins tryin to get him, no more government agents chasin him around the world.

The poor guy comes home to his children, and spins a shtoopid top, that he was unable to spin before throughout the movie.

The spinning top maintains balance. So is the subject's mind maintaining balance. Cobb's pop thanks the psychotherapist for a job well done. But Nolan cut that part from the movie, he needs monies, and nobody would see this movie twice, if they'd figure what da faq is it about.

Inception is a remake of Hitchcock's Vertigo.

this brings up a number of issues.
First, this can't be all a dream, if certain parts are delusions.
A real bath being a delusion of him going up a level in his dream.
Ariadne drawing a maze but really being his pschotherapist.
Your very first statement is all conjecture of what may have happened in the real world. If his wife isn't really dead, then all of this is for nothing. Ari could have simply said, "she's not dead."
And to assume that Nolan shot a different ending seems completely made up by a delusional fan who has convinced himself that a lie is the truth.

[–] criztu 8 years ago

Yes, it took me a while to reverse engineer the story in Inception.

At first I thought it was about a dude who really lost his wife, and is going through a mental breakdown, and what we see is how he sees life as a mentally ill patient - interestingly, Dicaprio did a similar movie - Shutter Island, in the same time as Inception, about a criminally insane dude, I donno, I didn't watch that one.

The similarity with Vertigo - a dude who is in love with a dead woman who jumped from a roof, and he suffers from vertigo (loss of balance) - added to the confusion.

But I connected more and more dots - eg. the etymologies of the names of the characters, and talking to someone on this forum it dawned on me that Mal is the Jungian shadow - add the omnipresent water in Inception, as the Jungian archetype for the unconscious, and it became clear that the story is happening completely inside the mind of the subject.

This explained the first scene of the movie, where Cobb is on a completely different beach than in Saito's limbo, a beach where he sees his wife and kids, and not Saito's castle.

First, this can't be all a dream, if certain parts are delusions.

Yes, it is not a dream, and we're not watching a delusional patient.
The story is simply a representation of what happens inside the mind, in the unconscious, or better said, a conscious attempt to understand what's going on in the unconscious.
The use of "dreams" is only to make the story accessible to the masses, who have 0 knowledge of psychoanalysis.

Really, this movie is 0 innovation. It says nothing new. It waters down basic concepts of psychoanalysis, for consumption.

A real bath being a delusion of him going up a level in his dream.

Cobb being dunked in a bath, is very much like the psych ward "cold bath" stereotype. Nolan spams with imagery from psychotherapy - think only how he uses the term "subconscious" - really, you can't get closer to psychoanalysis than that...

Ariadne drawing a maze but really being his psychotherapist.
Your very first statement is all conjecture of what may have happened in the real world. If his wife isn't really dead, then all of this is for nothing. Ari could have simply said, "she's not dead."

True. If Ariadne was a real person, the story would be lame.
But Ariadne is only a representation inside the subject's mind. She is not real. No character is real, all are imagined by the subject.

Everything is created by the subject - by the name God (Dominus, Dominic), inside the Head (Cobb, copp, caput).

And to assume that Nolan shot a different ending seems completely made up by a delusional fan who has convinced himself that a lie is the truth.

I don't understand what you are referring to with this one.

Nolan, I'm sorry to say this, disappointed me. He really has nothing to say, he just reads stuff from psychoanalysis and makes a movie (Inception), he then reads stuff about black holes and wormholes, and makes another movie (Interstellar), and so on. No art. Only pulp. I still rated it 9/10, because I enjoyed reverse engineering it.

[–] the-author 8 years ago

That sounds like 100 percent conjecture. Nothing of your conclusions/guesses are based on the film at all.

Either Ari and Mal are real people or the movie would be nonsense. If he's in a dream den in Mombasa, then the other people in the room would be controlling the other characters.

. She is not real. No character is real

You contradict yourself because you said he has a wife and that Aei was his psychotherapist. Now you say he merely invented those people.

I know there is another person who feels the same way, that it was all entirely a dream, but I feel that that idea became your focus because you could not understand the film as many others can. And there are a lot of people that grasp even less than you do, so I am not saying you are dumb. You just can't see your flaws or see what is truly there. i use to have a site that explained everything but I lost interest for a while.

I had posted the 8 page Passiv handbook as well as the prequel comic and the full text of the second (cancelled) comic. I included a side by side comparison of dom and Mal"s suicide with scenes from Vertigo. Very similar concepts. And I think I was the first to post the spelling of Dreams from the character names.

This film has a lot of depth for study, but it isn't as fascinating to watch like some others. I like the video where someone runs all the dream levels at the same time in four onscreen boxes.Its like the whole film in a few minutes...awesome job.

Keep at it my friend, You'll find the path eventually.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

You contradict yourself because you said he has a wife and that Aei was his psychotherapist. Now you say he merely invented those people.

Are you reading what I'm writing to you? I told you:

It appeared as though Dominic Cobb is a mental patient, seeing reality distorted.

It turned out Dominic Cobb is merely a representation inside the mind of the subject.

Let me ask you, do you have any understanding of psychoanalysis? Do you understand what is the Jungian Shadow? Let's not waste time, if you don't know what the Jungian Shadow is, I'll stop here.

[–] the-author 8 years ago

Dominic Cobb is a mental patient, seeing reality distorted

Shutter Island??

Dominic Cobb is merely a representation inside the mind of the subject

Based on what evidence in the film?
Others say he is Chris Nolan. They have more evidence in their favor.

Do you understand .... Jung?

Yes, Jung was amazing in many respects. The question is can you prove Nolan knows Jung?

I'll stop here

Why not stop guessing and opinionating?
Has anyone ever explained how to analyse and dissect film?

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

The question is can you prove Nolan knows Jung?

I told you: Cobb says to Mal -you are but a shade of my real wife... that is, Mal is the Jungian Shadow.
Also Jung says water is the most powerful, universal symbol for the unconscious, and Cobb goes into water, a lot!

That for me is a clear indication that Nolan translates Jungian concepts into film.

[–] the-author 8 years ago

Borges is more of a key to Inception than Jung.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

I'm not familiar with Borges, would you expand on that for me, please?

[–] the-author 8 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Luis_Borges

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Miracle
with a link to a comment from Nolan

His themes often involved mirrors and labyrinths.
He wrote several interesting mysteries as well.
His works have influenced many writers.
The Secret Miracla is a short story, different.

Somewhere, I wrote about the influence of his works in Inception.
Finding it...probably won't happen. I trimmed a lot out when I got a new computer.
I don't even remember all of my sites myself.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

I was hoping you would show me a more precise connection between Borges and Inception... like, what are the Labyrinth and the Mirror in Borges' view, and how his concepts are represented in Inception.

eg. Jung's "Shadow" - emotions, feelings, desires, hidden in the unconscious, that we can't consciously express about a person, or the world - is represented in Inception, as Mal "the shade of my real wife"

eg. Jung's "Water as metaphor for the unconscious" - information that we are not aware of, hidden in the depths of our mind - is represented in Inception, as a dreamworld "when we reached the shores of our subconscious"

[–] the-author 8 years ago

I thought you would enjoy doing the research yourself.

Here's a quote from Questia magazine to get you started...

Jorge Luis Borges' influence on the movie Inception is unmistakable. In the opening scene and at the conclusion of the film, we see, for example, a physically young Leo Di Caprio having a bizarre conversation with his decrepit old alter ego. As it turns out, Borges' short story The Other, is remarkably similar.

Christopher Nolan, the 39-year-old director of Memento (2000), has publicly confirmed his admiration for Borges.

According to Nolan, his recent work was inspired by two of Jorge Luis Borges' most celebrated works of fiction: The Circular Ruins and The Secret Miracle.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com ...is gone!
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

a physically young Leo Di Caprio having a bizarre conversation with his decrepit old alter ego. As it turns out, Borges' short story The Other, is remarkably similar.

so you do agree that Saito is Dominic's alter ego, and both are "dreamed" by the subject? that's good.

thanks for the hint on Borges works.

[–] the-author 8 years ago

I didn't write that article, just quoting it.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

if you're saying "Borges is a key to Inception" and then citing Borges' story 'The Other', then I conclude you agree with the concept of the alter ego being dreamed by a dreamer that's also being dreamed, in 'The Other'.

[–] the-author 8 years ago

Don't make conclusions on what I agree with.
If you look at Shutter Island, you should see two storylines working together, until one becomes reality and the other fades as an illusion (or red herring/misdirection). To some people the story is ambiguous, and to a few, they believe the second as beibg the truth and the first as deceiving the main audience.
the problem with your theory, is you have no part of the film as evidence, or at least that you've shown.

If I were you, I would start with Saito's statement that he somehow simply "bought the airline."
But,if Dom is Saito, then he is the one who had an affair. And he protected that knowledge from himself and Arthur in the first dream sequence. Also, you would have to show why the father issue of Fischer is important.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

If I were you, I would start with Saito's statement that he somehow simply "bought the airline."
But,if Dom is Saito, then he is the one who had an affair. And he protected that knowledge from himself and Arthur in the first dream sequence. Also, you would have to show why the father issue of Fischer is important.

I read the quick summaries of those 3 stories by Borges you referenced, and I agree that concepts from Borges are represented in Inception, they pretty much confirm what I've already told you:
We are watching a "reality" that is "dreamed" by someone who is never revealed in the movie. I called him The Subject (inside whose mind we are from frame 1).

It's easy to see how Nolan mixed Borges with Jung, since it is apparent that Borges too, is interested in dreams.

I'm surprised you still have difficulties realizing that Saito ("purification" in Japanese) as an omnipotent tycoon, who can purge all charges against Cobb with a single phone call, is complete fantasy.

[–] the-author 8 years ago

I'm surprised you still have difficulties

I don't have any difficulties. Don't worry about what you think I believe or not.
Simply put forth proof of your theory.
I've given you help that you did not consider before.
But, your opinion is still not proof.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

your opinion is still not proof

what would constitute proof to you?

[–] the-author 8 years ago

You need to study film and how to dissect and understand it.
You are just going on a hunch, guessing.
As I have already shown toward your theory, there is more evidence that Dom cheated rather than Mal as you stated (or that Dom thought she had.)

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

You need to study film and how to dissect and understand it.
You are just going on a hunch, guessing.

I asked: what constitutes proof to you?

[–] the-author 8 years ago

what constitutes proof

Evidence from within the film itself, listing vital points rather than opinion and gross speculation.

Maybe start here:http://www.und.edu/instruct/cjacobs/FilmTheory&Analysis.htm

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

Evidence from within the film itself

here's evidence from within the film itself:

scene #001 - we see Dominic Cobb nearly drowned on the shore of an ocean, looking at
scene #002 - his wife and children, on the beach.

scene #674 - Dominic Cobb describes to Ariadne that descent into the unconscious as "reaching the shore of our subconscious".
Not only does Dominic Cobb use words from psychoanalysis - eg. 'subconscious', but
scene #998 - we see him and Ariadne descending into a "dream level" by effectively emerging from the waves of an ocean, and on the shore of a beach.

This is an unmistakable representation of the unconscious. From the very beginning of the film, we are inside somebody's unconscious.

[–] the-author 8 years ago

that isn't evidence for your theory. Everyone knows that dom is having dreams. You offer no support that the "entire film" is a dream. you have to disprove Dom's reality, including the ending.

You simply haven't achieved a depth of film analysis. Like I said, you need to educate yourself first. You do yourself more harm than credit right now.

Have you seen the movie Dreamscape? There are a number of dream sequences. So you come along and say that the whole film is a dream that Dennis Quaid has. None of the actions in the film are really happening. (Or Nightmare on elm Street or 2001 Space Odyssey.)

Unless you have a sound basis with points from the film to back you up, it just comes across as nonsense.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

Unless you have a sound basis with points from the film to back you up, it just comes across as nonsense.

It only comes across as nonsense exactly to those who don't have a sound basis. That is, at least basic knowledge of psychoanalysis.

[–] the-author 8 years ago

That statement is the dumbest thing you have said yet. Spare yourself the embarrassment.

Basically your statement is:

Those who don't know as much as me think my statements are nonsense.

Maybe restate or edit that.
Your saying that people should believe you without evidence because you know what you are talking about.(when in fact, you have only proven that you lack a depth of reason and ability to communicate the smallest basis of proof of theory.)

Only on the internet.

[–] criztu 8 years ago

Your saying that people should believe you

Quote me where I said that people should believe me.

[–] the-author 8 years ago

You should just give it up.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

Never! you hear me?! I will never give it up, not in a million years!

[–] the-author 8 years ago

You should realize that your comments do more harm than good toward the 'everything is a dream' theory.
Let someone elso more knowledgeable take up the challenge.

Or please please study film like I suggested.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

I see you still having difficulties. What you see in Inception is not a dream, but a psychoanalysis. Some dude is "navigating his own mind".

Think about it, if Dom Cobb incepted his wife with the idea that "her world isn't real", then he is guilty of homicide. Having Cobb reunited with his kids by resorting to corruption, while his wife lays dead in the grave, makes Cobb a despicable character, and the ending of the story, idiotic.

Fortunately, Dom Cobb "incepted" only "the shade of his real wife". Mal. Of course "her world wasn't real", she was not real either!

I trust you'll eventually understand what I'm telling you.

[–] the-author 8 years ago

Think about it, if Dom Cobb incepted his wife with the idea that "her world isn't real", then he is guilty of homicide. Having Cobb reunited with his kids by resorting to corruption, while his wife lays dead in the grave, makes Cobb a despicable character, and the ending of the story, idiotic.

No. Just no. You are going downhill. You don't seem to understand even the basic framework of Inception. Take a rest. It will do you some good.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] criztu 8 years ago

Yes. I am on the right track, and you're just jealous!

[–] the-author 8 years ago

You're a terrible mind-reader.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] realbullet 8 years ago

Yes, no matter how ridiculous Criztu's theories are, the movie is clearly based on Carl Jung's model of the mind.

👿 I know something you don't know ... I am ambidextrous!