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A lot of the limbo plot felt too inconsistent

posted 8 years ago by AndrewGS
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How was Mal able to convince herself that limbo was the real world and it was logical, possible that she and Dom were able to create buildings just through thoughts? And their children never aged?

How and why was Dom able to, both times, know that limbo world wasn't real, that it was limbo? Why would he want, more than Mal, to leave it?

How would Dom spinning the top and making it keep spinning make Mal think the world was unreal? If she never saw the always-spinning top she wouldn't be affected by it (especially since Dom earlier claimed that projections of someone's subconscious weren't actually parts of the mind) while if she did see it she would more likely realize that it had been tampered with. I get that the top was at least somewhat symbolic but was the flashback some kind of big simplification? This felt like the biggest disappointment as the point of inception was that the manipulated subject would think was his/her own idea (because, albeit through manipulation, they did give the idea to themselves) rather than something someone else planted.

[–] Snypnz 8 years ago

So my take is that they both knew limbo wasn't real when they first entered, but along they way Mal chose it believe that limbo was reality, she did this by locking away her totem (not spinning) in a safe. The safe being the deepest part of her subconscious and the totem is what allows her to distinguish what is real, so when its in the safe not spinning she thinks that the world she is in must be real. So when Dom spins the totem it changes the idea, now she believes that world she is in is false, so they kill themselves to wake up. What Dom did not know is that this idea that her world is not real would carry over to the actual real world, hence he knew inception was possible.
This is explained at around 1:17:00 in the movie.

In my opinion, i think Dom spinning the totem was his mistake, he should of simply removed the totem from the safe instead, this was she would not have the idea/belief that her world was real/false regardless of whether it was real or false, but rather she would have just remembered the truth. eg that the limbo was a dream, and she would accept the real reality

[–] AndrewGS 8 years ago

Mal chose it believe that limbo was reality, she did this by locking away her totem (not spinning) in a safe. The safe being the deepest part of her subconscious and the totem is what allows her to distinguish what is real, so when its in the safe not spinning she thinks that the world she is in must be real. So when Dom spins the totem it changes the idea, now she believes that world she is in is false, so they kill themselves to wake up. What Dom did not know is that this idea that her world is not real would carry over to the actual real world, hence he knew inception was possible.

I guess that makes sense-I didn't get that the flashback was so symbolic, that the locking away was within Mal's subconscious, rather than just another part of limbo. It still seems a little vague about how Dom would be able to go so deeply into her but if that's the case it does explain why setting the top spinning so would have such a deep effect on her feelings and perceptions.

In my opinion, i think Dom spinning the totem was his mistake, he should of simply removed the totem from the safe instead, this was she would not have the idea/belief that her world was real/false regardless of whether it was real or false, but rather she would have just remembered the truth. eg that the limbo was a dream, and she would accept the real reality

But Saito also (for the most part?) forgot limbo wasn't reality, maybe that would have happened regardless of self-deception if the person is alone.

If Dom had taken the top away do you think Mal would noticed he had done so and been angry with him, still tried to maintain that limbo was real?

[–] realbullet 8 years ago

It wasn't that Mal believed that Limbo was reality, she lost track of reality. It was not something that happened all of a sudden. After being there for fifty years, she could not distinguish between Limbo and reality. Limbo felt real to them. It's not clear to me that the children were in Limbo.

Dom wanted to leave because he realized something was missing in Limbo. He slowly figured out the distinction between Limbo and reality.

The top and safe are allegorical. Don't consider them literally. The safe means, "Something you once knew, but chose to forget." It's not very clear why Mal chose to forget reality -- it probably would have been helpful to develop that. The key is the linkage to the Fischer Inception. (Fischer once knew the love his father had for him, but chose to forget.) The infinite spinning top is a symbol for the resilient parasite of one simple idea. "Once an idea takes hold, it is almost impossible to eradicate."

The story is not about manipulating people's memories. It is about the power of an idea to control you and define you. For the most part, these ideas are self-generated, not planted. The movie is based on the architecture of the mind as defined by Carl Jung. To resolve emotional deficiencies, the analyst needs to help you navigate to the lowest level of the unconscious mind to discover the root cause of the emotional problem.

👿 I know something you don't know ... I am ambidextrous!

[–] AndrewGS 8 years ago

It wasn't that Mal believed that Limbo was reality, she lost track of reality. It was not something that happened all of a sudden. After being there for fifty years, she could not distinguish between Limbo and reality. Limbo felt real to them. It's not clear to me that the children were in Limbo.

The children seemed to not be there, only unaging projections of them (I guess their lack of realism was what disatisfied Dom). It's hard to see how such a fantastical reality could seem like reality but maybe it could.

The top and safe are allegorical. Don't consider them literally. The safe means, "Something you once knew, but chose to forget." It's not very clear why Mal chose to forget reality -- it probably would have been helpful to develop that.

But your answer seems kind of inconsistent-Mal was both unable to distinguish limbo from reality and on the other hand chose to forget that it wasn't reality.

The key is the linkage to the Fischer Inception. (Fischer once knew the love his father had for him, but chose to forget.)

The story is not about manipulating people's memories. It is about the power of an idea to control you and define you.

Fischer's father probably loved him or at least cared about him in some way, maybe more intensely in the past, but it seems to me that the specific and even general idea-message of the way he loved him was very much a manipulation - not exactly of memory but maybe of perceiving memory? To convince yourself the idea is true?

[–] realbullet 8 years ago

The children seemed to not be there, only unaging projections of them (I guess their lack of realism was what disatisfied Dom). It's hard to see how see how such a fantastical reality could seem like reality but maybe it could.

The children are Cobb's projections. I don't think we ever see them in Limbo with Mal until the very end -- then, Mal is also Cobb's projection. Dom figured out that it was Limbo because he sensed that it was a shadow of reality in the same way that he figured Mal to be a shadow of herself.

But your answer seems kind of inconsistent-Mal was both unable to distinguish limbo from reality and on the other hand chose to forget that it wasn't reality.

Yes, both of these answers are given in the movie. I don't know why Mal would choose to forget reality (we don't understand that from her character). She basically chose Limbo as her reality.

Fischer's father probably loved him or at least cared about him in some way, maybe more intensely in the past, but it seems to me that the specific and even general idea-message of the way he loved him was very much a manipulation - not exactly of memory but maybe of perceiving memory? To convince yourself the idea is true?

If you watch the movie closely, you'll notice that Eames has figured out Fischer. He even says at one point, "Fischer should be paying us more money for this job than Saito." When they first decide that the Inception was blown, Fischer says, "I really wanted to see what was in there." (while looking at the safe.) When Fischer grabs the pinwheel rather than the alternate will, Eames nods as though it was exactly what he expected.

The catharsis Fischer achieves is real. Until that point, we only heard & saw snippets of Maurice -- he knocked over the picture while trying to reach for it. He only said one word on his deathbed. Fischer chose to interpret these in the worst possible way, but Eames saw through that. Robert Fischer chose to believe that his father was disappointed in him, but his father was never disappointed in Fischer. He was disappointed about the lost relationship. (Something Robert knew, but chose to forget)

👿 I know something you don't know ... I am ambidextrous!

[–] plazbo 8 years ago

It's hard to see how such a fantastical reality could seem like reality but maybe it could.

The characters are likely mid 30's and are in limbo for 50 years, I can't imagine it not seeming real when they've spent the majority of their conscious life there. I mean I barely remember names and people that I worked with on a daily basis 5 years ago, they've got several decades of memories made in limbo and from their perspective real life was a very very long time ago.

[–] Thornspike 8 years ago

Agreed. That's why this movie is a 7 at best and not an 8.8 to me.