This is my take (and I have given this movie a lot of thought):
Why is Cobb still young in limbo but Saito has become an old man?
The short answer is because that's how they dreamed themselves in Limbo. Saito says a few times in the movie that his greatest fear is "to become an old man, filled with regret, waiting to die alone." He says that to Cobb, but Cobb doesn't have that worry -- Saito does. So, when he fell into Limbo and did not have the control over his imagination, that's what he became.
And how could Cobb perform an inception on Mal when they were already in limbo together, as deep as possible? It's hard to articulate this one. They represented it as Cobb placing the spinning top in the dollhouse. But if Mal had completely abandoned her totem and forgotten reality, when/why would she have opened the dollhouse and seen the totem? See what I mean? Maybe I'm overthinking. ???
Cobb placing the top in the safe is not meant to be literal. They are defining the symbols for us in that scene. -- The permanently spinning top represents the power of an idea to control you and to consume you. The safe represents "something you once knew, but chose to forget."
The dream levels are meant to represent Carl Jung's architecture of the mind. According to his theory, emotional problems are developed in the deepest layer of the unconscious mind. Inception calls this layer, "Limbo". This root cause is not apparent until he probes the patient (using psychoanalysis, you have to probe to this unconscious layer to determine the root cause.) The psychoanalyst can guide the patient through the labyrinth of his mind to identify the root cause, but the patient has to 'confess' the cause before he can heal.
The key is that you don't know the genesis of a powerful idea (as was the case with Mal). However, "An idea is like a virus, resilient, highly contagious. The smallest seed of an idea can grow. It can grow to define or destroy you."
Cobb doesn't intentionally plant Mal with the Inception. That is completely accidental. But, because of his experience with Mal, he knows that it is possible. Since, the Inception occurred in Limbo, the idea that was planted overwhelmed Mal.
Cobb is also Incepted with the guilt over his role in his wife's death. That guilt has consumed him. Ariadne guides him through the Labyrinth of his mind until he can discover the root cause of his problems. It is not until he confronts his wife in Limbo and confesses his guilt (to the Bishop, his confessor), that he can find his catharsis and begin to heal.
I hope that makes sense.
And, why earlier in the movie were the "kicks" performed in the level prior to the dream you're trying to wake up from- but later in the movie the kicks happened in the current dream?
The kick has to occur in the layer above the dream layer -- in the final dream (because of the very heavy sedative), the kick need to be synchronized with a kick in the layer of the dream. It's not explained very well, but in the planning stages one of them mentions that the kicks have to be synchronized "to penetrate all four levels".
For instance, Eames gives Fischer three jolts with the defibrillator to kick him up one level. It's not until Ariadne pushes Fischer off of the building that the kick is synchronized between the layers to wake him up.
I'm also confused as to how they got Fischer out of limbo versus how they got Saito out. Why were they able to revive Fischer that way?
Because Fischer died in the layer just above Limbo. This means that they could plan a way to synchronize the kicks. They haven't even found Saito in Limbo when they needed to conduct the kick.
I figure that the dreamer (Eames) could make the bullet disappear in Fisher's body. He still may bleed out a die later, but they only needed ten seconds.
👿 I know something you don't know ... I am ambidextrous!
reply
share
Bag_of
8 years ago
Was cobb not younger because he got there later than saito? No idea how old this makes that saito but didnt think it mattered even if hes a thousand cos its a dream.
reply
share
realbullet
8 years ago
Was cobb not younger because he got there later than saito? No idea how old this makes that saito but didnt think it mattered even if hes a thousand cos its a dream.
That's the question that many people have. In my opinion, the time they arrive does not necessarily have to have anything to do with their age in Limbo. As support for this idea, I'll give you two tidbits from the movie:
1) Part of Cobb's catharsis was that he recognized spending fifty years in Limbo with Mal was the same as growing old together. When he reached this catharsis, his memory changed to picture themselves as old. In other words -- while dreaming age, like pain, is all in the mind.
2) The opening scene is different than the closing scene. The words are slightly different and they aren't all said by the same person. My take on this is that Cobb and Saito have to keep repeating Limbo over and over again until the sedative wears off. Yet, Saito is old each time and Cobb is young.
Other people don't see it that way, but that is my take.
👿 I know something you don't know ... I am ambidextrous!
reply
share
Bag_of
8 years ago
Fair enough.
I prefer the idea that mal got to 'grow old together' in a normal life in a weird place, rather than had 50 years together in a cheat life in a weird place. Otherwise Cobb doesnt really deserve his catharsis as much. And the idea that saito was honourable enough to remember his promise to cobb for much longer than cobb had to.
reply
share
realbullet
8 years ago
I prefer the idea that mal got to 'grow old together' in a normal life in a weird place, rather than had 50 years together in a cheat life in a weird place. Otherwise Cobb doesnt really deserve his catharsis as much. And the idea that saito was honourable enough to remember his promise to cobb for much longer than cobb had to.
Cobb's catharsis is not about forgiving himself or forgetting about his wife. It is about placing his guilt in context with everything else in his life. The them of the movie is that one simple idea can define you and destroy you. {"An idea is like a virus, resilient, highly contagious. The smallest seed of an idea can grow. It can grow to define or destroy you."} Cobb's 'one simple idea' was the guilt over his role in his wife's death.
Cobb and Mal did not literally grow old together, but they spent some fifty years together in Limbo. His memory of Limbo changed. This memory helped him place that guilt in context with his wife rather than try to imprison his memory of her in his dreams.
The sequence with Saito in the palace is more than just Saito remembering their deal. Through the dialogue, Cobb and Saito both talk each other into remembering that they are dreaming. Since they have to repeat this over and over until the sedative wears off, it remains significant. If they fail any one time, then each of them could wake up insane.
👿 I know something you don't know ... I am ambidextrous!
reply
share
Bag_of
8 years ago
Theres inconsistency in ageing in the film but it still works (and also works that they dont age if you prefer).
Showing Mal and Cobb as young when theyre geting run over by the train is annoying but it made the later scenes when theyre old more revealing. If it had been made obvious earlier in the film that they grew old together in limbo then viewers may not have cared so much that Mals real life was tragically cut short. The in-movie explanation of cobb remembering them as a young couple is no more flimsy than him remembering them as old to allay some guilt.
Im not a fan of the repeating limbo theory. It doesnt really fit with the recollections cobb has when he first returns to limbo. The easiest explanation for saitos appearance is to convey how long hes had to hold his promise and cobbs younger appearance might be his later arrival or its his half remembered recollection when he wakes up and cobb is again remembering himself as young. Again, if they are flimsy explanations, they are no more flimsy than a repeating limbo which doesnt seem to have much substance.
reply
share
realbullet
8 years ago
The easiest explanation for saitos appearance is to convey how long hes had to hold his promise and cobbs younger appearance might be his later arrival or its his half remembered recollection when he wakes up and cobb is again remembering himself as young. Again, if they are flimsy explanations, they are no more flimsy than a repeating limbo which doesnt seem to have much substance.
The evidence of "repeating Limbo" is the beginning scene and ending scene differences. They are easily as significant as differences in the children.
The other piece of the evidence is Saito's description several times in the movie of his fear - "to become an old man, filled with regret, waiting to die alone."
As far as the length of Limbo, the movie presents it as a near impossible hurdle to remember that you are not dreaming. It is that much more difficult to remember it many times before you awake.
The truth is that it does not matter that much to the plot of the film; it is more of an interesting anecdote than "it has to be that way."
👿 I know something you don't know ... I am ambidextrous!
reply
share