In other words, the butterfly effect.
But the Butterfly Effect is also a flawed time-travel construct. The Butterfly Effect proposes that one can change immediately change the future by changing the past, but have effects of the change in the past appear in the present without altering/creating a new timeline. If you change something significant in the past, you alter the course of reality. The Butterfly Effect is more of a supernatural/paranormal phenomena rather than a legitimate philosophy of Time Travel.
Looper seems to also imply that by changing the past they can change the present without altering it - their logic is by changing the past you don't necessarily change the present, you just end up adding more to it. Like when they dismember the young Looper which inherently affects the old Looper - the film implies that there is a 'magical' connection between the two bodies, despite the fact that by killing the young self he will never grow up to escape in the first place.
But the Loops are destined to be closed per the Looper Contract that all Loopers sign as part of the Looper Paradigm. Even Abe()'s Loop is closed at some point (intentionally or not).
Yes, but for some reason the film implies that all the loops are being closed at the same time.
OLD JOE kills OLD OLD JOE; YOUNG JOE fails to kill OLD JOE; YOUNG JOE commits Loopicide.
Agreed?
What? No. Because OLD OLD JOE should have been YOUNG JOE, hereby creating a full Loop. If OLD OLD JOE never escaped and nearly killed the kid thereby creating the Rainmaker then how was he created? And why wasn't he created in the same unknown manner when OLD JOE tries to find him - he clearly became the Rainmaker somehow in OLD JOE'S timeline so why is that not the case now?
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rainofwalrus
8 years ago
Yes, but for some reason the film implies that all the loops are being closed at the same time.
No, there is a rumor (from the future) that the rainmaker is closing loops early. But it's only hearsay for when we see OLD JOE's montage, we see it play out for 30 years. Paranoid junkies right?
What? No. Because OLD OLD JOE should have been YOUNG JOE, hereby creating a full Loop. If OLD OLD JOE never escaped and nearly killed the kid thereby creating the Rainmaker then how was he created? And why wasn't he created in the same unknown manner when OLD JOE tries to find him - he clearly became the Rainmaker somehow in OLD JOE'S timeline so why is that not the case now?
Well, we know OLD OLD JOE is killed by OLD JOE. And we know YOUNG JOE fails to kill OLD JOE. There are no more JOE(s). We only ever see (EDIT: 3!).
We know OLD SETH comes back with all his limbs even tho they vanish later.
As time-theories go, Looper is a sort of hybrid. Elements of both linear and non-linear, many- and singular-world(s).
Enjoy these words, for one day they'll be gone... All of them.
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miguelvilhena
8 years ago
"As time-theories go, Looper is a sort of hybrid. Elements of both linear and non-linear, many- and singular-world(s)."
The plot is a mess.
The fact that the Rainmaker is killing homeless people and closing loops sugests that he has a deep grudge against them, what would make sense if Old Old Joe had killed his mother. But Old Old Joe was executed by Old Joe. And then Old Joe comes to the present trying to kill Cid, and Joe has a vision of how Cid would become the Rainmaker, that has no connection to Old Old Joe and Old Joe's timeline, since Old Joe closed his loop without fuss. There is a lot of foretelling that, in the end, doesn't amount to much, in the grand scheme of things. And there is a lot of red herrings, like the Rainmaker's metal jaw. Plus Cid probably will become the Rainmaker regardless, as Old Old Joe had nothing to do with it in the first place.
And there is nothing to point that Joe is Cid or Cid's father. It is implied that loopers are people hired in the present time, for example when Joe describes Abe, and he points that the mob sent the guy from the future to oversee things. And when Joe meets Cid he is already six or seven years old. And it is implied that Joe doesn't any TK thoughout the movie.
If we don't agree, show me your truth. If you resort to personal shots, I won't take you seriously
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rainofwalrus
8 years ago
miguelvilhena, we can try to make something out of the mess. One thing that is interesting is that any ABE could go back and rehire all new loopers (not named JOE, SETH) effectively rebooting the loop-engine (Recruitment==Loops).
There could even be a "command" for it (e.g. "Trust me, go to China").
So you're right that JOE has not real effect on anything... except when he commits loopicide and vanishes OLD JOE before the loop is closed. But does any of that stop NEW YOUNG ABE from traveling back later? And would there be a new YOUNG JOE waiting for him or would JOE(~) be scrubbed from the timeline(s) in both directions? Curious.
Enjoy these words, for one day they'll be gone... All of them.
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svratau472
8 years ago
Depending of how well the syndicates studied the places where they established their looper operation, they would either repeat what they had made the last time, or be cautious and investigating, probably deciding to track down and kill young Joe. Or build again, but this time making a looper kill only targets others than himself, including ending other loops.
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