...it's the 21st century. I thought we were past having whites portray people of color. The story looks interesting but, you can't find a couple of decent actors from that area of the world? Or at least someone from India (that's probably a little less offensive)? I'm not Middle Eastern, but I'm offended as a potential viewer. It's kind of insulting.
shareI see your point but, sorry, saying something like "...at least someone from India" sounds potentially more insulting to Iraqis or Indians than the prospect of white people acting as "coloured": India is so far removed from Iraq, both culturally and geographically, you might have as well said Ethiopian or Latvian.
And by the way I doubt you can classify Arabic/Middle Eastern people as "coloured", that tells me you don't know much of what you are talking about: there's plenty of natives in the whole region with pale skin, blue eyes or even blonde hair, just as many dark skinned, black hair/eyes and large-nosed people are present among the so-called "whites".
I do agree with the fact that they should really make an effort to hire "local" talents when making such films, and have them speaking and act in the local manners; maybe that will also help to cure these "politically correct" notions.
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You can argue the fact that, okay, Dominic Cooper is from England...but so are a LOT of people of Middle Eastern OR Indian descent. So that argument is kinda null and void.
I agree with the OP completely that filmmakers should definitely seek out talent who fit a role where a character's ethnicity is a driving point of the or the character themself. However, I would MUCH rather see an actor who can truly embrace a role play a part - regardless of ethnicity - rather than an actor who was cast just because of the color of their skin or the place of their birth.
That said, we should likewise be open to the possibilities of, say, a Middle-Eastern actor playing the lead in the next mainstream romantic comedy. Why not?
Totally. I don't think it matters whether the actor is English or Iraqi by citizenship. I was speaking more to the ethnicity of the actor. For example, Ben Kingsley (who is half Indian), though being English, played Gandhi. I agree that the actor shouldn't be cast purely on looks. But surely they can find an actor with chops that actually looks Iraqi.
And I agree that leading roles should be open to more races as well. Unfortunately, that's not what draws viewers. The moment you cast an person of color as the lead, it becomes a "black" movie or "Indian" movie or a "______" movie. They ran into this problem with Hitch. Will Smith had been cast and they couldn't cast a white woman as his lead love interest lest it upset the audience (at least American audiences - they aren't keen with inter racial couples on the screen...or in real life sometimes for that matter). And they couldn't cast a black woman for fear it would be labeled a "black" movie. It's sad that people have to categorize a story based on the race of a charater.
In Hancock, Will Smith's ex-wife was white and his love interest in Men in Black was white. I don't think modern Americn audiences are particuarly upset by inter-racial pairings on screen- they have become increasingly more common and acceptable (for example, Leverage, Friends, New Adventures of Old Christine, Sex in the City, Bridesmaids, etc.) American black women have in the past expressed displeasure over not being cast as the love interest of black men. Bill Cosby once said that it was his decision to have black women cast as his love interests in order to "give the sisters a chance".
sharewe got plenty of mild to moderate feelings about interacial couples under our breath. but i really don't think it's enough to want to pander to movie-goers watching some idiotic romantic comedy. it would be nice if I'm right, and it doesn't happen often because hollywood doesn't want to collectively over-do it to the point where it's just obvious and silly
though this is coming form a person of color in redneckville midwest. if the problem is bigger than I see it, then it's happening behind my back and I couldn't care less
Dominic Cooper looked like he could be Iraqi or even half Iraqi. Doesn't look like a regular White Brit. At least they didn't use someone they had to put fake eyebrows, darkened the area around the eyes, and had to make major changes. I really didn't mind him. Of course I'm sure they could have used someone that was maybe Kuwaiti or Iraqi to portray him? or whoever looks the closest to what Udey looked like without having to change him completely.
(•_•)
can't outrun your own shadow
who cares??? its a movie not real life. yea its based on real ppl but its not real. get over yourself
shareNormally, I'd totally be with the OP about this kind of topic, I was strongly against the main cast of Prince of Persia just for that reason but to be honest, when I saw the trailer, I had not idea it was the same guy from the upcoming Captain America movie. While he might not have any middle eastern descent (though he might, I don't know) he looks the part great and that's that matters, he doesn't sound English during a Mediterranean/middle eastern language (again like Prince of Persia) so I accept it for what it is.
Would I love to see an Arab or Iraqi man play the part, sure there's plenty of them watch any middle eastern channel, but maybe they don't speak english or have the experience or maybe the director didn't want to go through the hassle of finding one instead of just having a casting director get him a English guy.
Jake Gyllenhaal(Prince of Persia) and Chris Evans(Captain America) aren't the same person...
There are 10 types of people- those who can understand binary, and those who can't.
They were actually talking about Dominic Cooper, who played Howard Stark in Captain America. Jake Gyllenhaal in Prince of Persia was only mentioned in another regards (opposing white people to play ethnic parts).
Some might find me morally challenged or morally ambigious. I prefer morally creative.
Isn't this a movie...made up of actors? i.e. aren't these people playing a part?
It's not like you've got Dominic Cooper playing Muhammad Ali. As for the "white people can't play middle easterners" idea...aren't both the English and Middle Easterners considered Caucasian?
Hey stop picking on the Indians we didn't do anything lol and I thought Dominic was brilliant even if he was way to good looking to play Uday, he reminded me of a psychopathic Freddy Mercury for some reason, white people cant play Arabs come on now what tosh, clearly the O.P is a troll why hasn't anyone picked up on that after all this time, he hasn't chimed in since his original post, if you're reading this O.P aka maineyac suck my brown salty balls you racist t.w.a.t.a.r.s.e!!!
shareI think the people from the Caucasus are "considered Caucasian".
shareYou make a film or put on a play, you work with what you have.
Shakespeare in Germany or Italy would be in German or Italian.
I TV show in Nigeria would have all parts played by black actors including the white roles were the black actors white up.
If someone chooses to tell a Scottish story and they speak Japanese with Japanese actors for an Japanese film goer I don't see why people get into an excited state.
If people in Iraq or Iran tell a Chinese story must they hire Chinese actors speaking Chinese? How many people speak Chinese in Iraq & Iran? Why can't they watch and understand a story which takes place in another land in their own tongue? Next time Macbeth or Hamlet is played in the middle east I insist a Scot or Dane play the roles in Scottish and Danish.
Actually I don't as I'm not boringly P.C.
Hire pay play and speak Arabic but the film would not make much money and movies are a business too, it needs to make money or they will have no cash to make more.
This could have been an Canadian film or Italian or German or French and English, Italian, German and French would have been the spoken word, with Canadian; Italian, German and French actors.
Politically Correctness is just madness. IMO.
Love film love cinema keep the suits at bay.
Now that you are talking about the specific case of physical resemblance with the real-life characters it makes more sense, but your early suggestion still remains awkward as, as yourself have aknowledged, Uday Hussein could have easily been pale with blue eyes, so it was not much about choosing an ethnic group over another.
Regarding Naveen Andrews in Lost I firmly believe that, would have been a "white" person in his place, it would have made no difference whatsoever in the kind of controversy it was created, as long as its character was being played just as convincingly (and not like some crude stereotype, as often happened in the past), certainly not among 2nd generation or native Iraqis. These kind of "controversies" are usually brought up by some of the white mainstream media which have got little to say apart from embracing a little "political correct" battle once in a while.
If an Iraqi (or from any other group) feels like complaining about the fact that one of his compatriots is being played by some "white", there's a strong chance he will complain just as much if he was Indian, Arab, Israeli, Spanish or (possibly worse, believe me) Iranian, and sometimes for a good reason. One example is the casting of Gong Li as the main character in Memoirs of a Geisha, it might be close enough for most Westernars to cast a Chinese as a Japanese geisha but for quite a few ethnic Japanese it wasn't.
Naveen got his part in Lost, more than for his looks, because throughout his whole career he's always played Middle Eastern/ Indian natives therefore he's got a knack on attitudes and accents, despite the fact he is a pure Londoner (he does a mean Cockney accent too, if I remember well). I might be wrong of course, as I do not know the details in this case, but I'm sure that has been the case a lot in the past and not just with him but many other "ethnic" actors.
The reason why I can say this is, apart from the fact I have had friends of many ethnic minorities throughout my life, is that I can speak through personal experience: I am an ethnic Italian myself and, you might agree, I don't think there is any other ethnic group there has been "typecasted" in Hollywood history as much and as often as Italians have.
I could make hundreds of examples of 'good' and 'bad' Italian casting and, as a matter of fact, very rarely actual ethnicity and looks was an issue.
One example for all: "The Godfather". Believe me, there were dozens of ethnic Italians and Sicilians in that film but, for my money, the most convincing "Italian" of them all was James Caan, one of the very few who had no relation to the group whatsoever.
I can say quite the opposite for some actors like Nicolas Cage (real name: Coppola) in more than one occasion.
James Caan is a Jew. We're good actors.
shareAnd dont forget Robert DeNiro who is mostly NOT Italian but he keeps playing them! He's at least as much Irish as he is Italian and he's only really 1/4 Italian. Should he stop playing Italians?
shareI sure as hell don't use the phrase "person of color" when talking about anybody who isn't "white"..or, Caucasian. I call them black, or Hispanic, or Indian, or Middle Eastern, or Asian..
shareSephticularcancer, what would you do, say, if you were in NYC and looking a classroom full of blacks, Latinos, Indians, Arabs, Persians, and Asians? Would you say, "a large percentage of my students are people of color" or would you take the time to list every group?
shareActually, being "white" means you're not Hispanic. I'm arab and I check "white" on all my applications. And actually you're wrong, about an Indian looking closer to an Iraqi than a "white" person. Arabs look more like Italians or Greeks.
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I agreed with you up until the point where you stated "at least someone from India." At that point I lost all respect for you. Actually, casting an Indian as an Iraqi would be even MORE offensive than casting a westerner. Aside from the fact that Middle Easterners are white, lumping together all "others" into one group is downright racist. So Iraqis are now brown people? Seriously? I have friends who are Middle Eastern and they can pass as Italians (for example, I know an Afghani guy with blonde hair and blue eyes - I swear, I thought this kid was German!). Also, it doesn't matter what happens in other movies or television shows where Indians play the part of Middle Easterners - that does NOT make it right! So many westerners casting people for these movies just want to demonize people and turn all dark skinned people into "terrorists." At least the people doing the casting for this movie got it right!
shareAfghans are not "Middle Eastern".
As of the "Aryan" Afghans, http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2012/02/15/yes-there-is-a-base-in- afghanistan-named-aryan-and-it-is-spelled-aryan/
As an Arab, I would find it offensive for an indian to portray us because they don't come close to resembling us. People of European descent actually look more like us, they have a lot of similar facial features to Arabs/Middle Easterns. I only think its less offensive to the United States probably because most people think Arabs and Indians arent' much different. But in my opinion and I think many Arabs would agree with me that indians don't resemble us at all, or as much as many whites would.
shareNaveen Andrews, Dominic Cooper, and Kal Penn all have one thing in common. They are so *beep* hot! I don't know how I would choose -- I'll take all three.
share"However, in America we use the term "person of color" to describe any one that's not white."
That's kinda stupid. Since all other people beside "whites" are just monochrome variations from white to beige to brown to black. While Caucasians have red, green, black, yellow, brown, gray, white and blue features.
It should be the opposite, "whites" should be the people of color. =)
Heh. I'd not thought of it like that before. But it is so right.
sharejust wanna comment on your coloured comment.
this world sees people in black or white, your either white or your not. which means your colored..
asians, mexicans, middle easteners etc.
i did this report and on one side it read not; the other side it read minority. and according to the class all non-whits were considered minorities. your right, there are blonde hair blue eye people from the middle east who are muslim, but when they come to the usa, they are looked at as white. isn't it crazy that afro-americans aren't born with blue eyes or red hair with green eyes. which is probably whyt hey all look the same.
What a great response. I am Arab American with green eyes and natural golden auburn hair and most confuse me for Caucasian. Lebanese, Syrian, Palestinian, Tunisian and others are known for their "colored" eyes and light hair. I think the OP needs to get out more and not use Apu from the Simpsons as a reference.
shareAnd the supposedly Slavic (more Finnic, but hey) ethnic Russians call the Caucasians "blackasses" (chernozhopy).
Like those fine Cossack gentlemen:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2005/01/russia-apos-s-holy -warriors/3685/
but it's actually a very common ethnic slur in Russia.
Or they just call the Caucasians "blacks" (cherniye).
Oh please...
Actors act. Get over the PC crapola.
I agree that the casting of both Dominic Cooper and Ludivine Sagnier is VERY odd. They are both talented actors who have great careers going, but...really? I mean, surely there had to ONE actor of Arabic or Middle Eastern descent who could play that part. And ONE actress of Arabic or Middle Eastern descent who could play the main female lead.
And no, an Indian actor is not really less offensive (even though it happens constantly), but juicy, dramatic (and possibly award-nominated) parts are so few and far between for minority actors that it seems insulting and condescending to cast white people in them.
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But here's the real problem: it's not a two-way street. If a studio wants to make a movie about a notorious white person from history, they're obviously not going to cast Denzel Washington to play him, even though Denzel is a huge box office draw. Why? Because there are plenty of talented white actors to play all roles.
And sure, there are probably more white actors out there than minority actors who could undertake the role in this film. But there are also probably a lot of female actors who could do a great job playing Saddam's son. Good actors are good actors. But since film usually tends towards the "realism" side, it's sad that in 2011, we're still having films trying to pass white people in minority roles, under the banner of making money. I'm sure there were plenty of talented Arab or Arab descent actors available for those two roles, and I'm sure several of them are actually in the film in smaller roles.
I wouldn't be so up in arms if the industry worked both ways--if actors of color were given equal opportunities to parts that white actors were given, and if "color blind" casting in fictional movies was more prevalent, but that's just not the case. Even the notion of casting an actor of color for James Bond, who is not a real person in history, comes under fire because apparently, James Bond is only for white people.
So until this problem gets better, we'll just have to keep making threads on IMDb...sorry if it sours your mood...
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I guess what bothers me is the acceptance, particularly because it has much more to do with money than art. Why do we have to accept such things in order to have artistically interesting films made?
Anyway. I have been a fan of Dominic Cooper's for a while, and I have no doubt he does a phenomenal job.
Ooh - Kit - did you enjoy the film? I do hope it gets picked up and distributed. I'd love to see it. I'm particularly keen to see how Philip Quast plays Saddam Hussein - I know it's not a big part in the movie, but what did you think? Was he any good? Did he look scary? Would love to hear your views!
Philip Quast is all that and a side of chips...
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Thanks for letting me know your thoughts! Yes, I live in the US at the moment, but I'm moving back to the UK soon, so will have to keep fingers crossed that it's shown there.
Cheers.
Philip Quast is all that and a side of chips...
You get jewish guys playing bog-standard `white' all the time.
Was it offensive that jewish Brad Garrett played Robert Barone in `Everybody Loves Raymond'?
When Temuera Morrison (Maori actor) played Jango Fett, but that didn't stop some people assuming he was Mexican! - http://www.screamingpickle.com/members/SW/detroit_racist_panel_episode_II.htm
Get over it, guys.
I think acting ability should be decider here rather than ethnicity. I watched the trailer and i see Uday in Dominic cooper. He has been given a complex role which he will do justice to. Maybe they would have tried a local actor but if he would not be able to portray such a complex character whole value of movie would have dropped. Then whats the point?
shareSo there is the people of color who look all the same so "at least someone from India" is not insulting at all, and the rest of the world who's white. IS IT REALLY THE 21st CENTURY IN YOUR MIND????
(by a Blonde and "white looking" arab)
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Colourism??? THat the most racist or just extremely stupid concept I've ever heard.
SO there is the whites and the rest of the world with colored skins. Ok. I did not know that.
I'm a Blonde white and I'm arab too, I don't look like a Indian sorry.
This is a stupid argument, more offensive than any of you self centered PC folks apparently know. You successfully objectify everything you bring up, every PC name title you bandy about, and every race of actor you promote, maineyac, if you don't want to be the voice of political correctness, then don't be and shut the F up! Your kind of smug, disingenuousness reveals the true fascism of Political Correctness.
shareSo it's ok to have a black guy playing Heimdal, a Norse god known as The White God......but having a white guy playing an arab is offensive?
shareI think it's a choice for the film makers to make. We may assume casting a particular person in a particular role has political implications. Certainly, film makers know these things when they cast. Political Correctness is an empty gesture that says social change is made with a name change, the suppression of a word, or in this case, a cast change! It's usually spoken with in a tone implacable and terrifically self righteous. I always find it distastefully self satisfied. Effecting no genuine change itself, it is an empty doctrine that appears to focus more light on the standard bearer, who doesn't "wanna be the voice of political correctness but ..." then it does the actual social point or implication that is brought up. Political Correctness has been called thought control, but is actually a facile and simple minded command. It calls suppression change; through censorship comes change, social, racial equality! How stupid can one get? It is a fascist notion that someone tells someone else what words and names to use, what actors to cast, and so forth. This person's disingenuous "don't wanna be ..." makes the fascist implications of the statement sort of cute and palatable. But Fascist it is.
Banish all forms of Political Correctness. When it rears its head in conversation and print, stomp on it, expose it, destroy it.
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You've obviously never been to the Middle East or had a lot of contact with Arab people if you're offended by Dominic Cooper playing Uday Hussein.
I've lived in the region, and I'd personally much rather see a "white" person play the role than and Indian. Iraqis resemble "white" people to a much greater extent than they do Indians - in fact, there's an enormous amount of racism against Indians and Pakistanis in the Middle East. South Asians and Arabs are on completely different ends of the ethnic spectrum.
In the US, and a lot of other multicultural countries, Arabs are counted as "whites" or "Caucasians" on censuses, because they share most of their ethnic characteristics with Europeans.
On shows such as 24 or films about terrorism, Hollywood's been casting Indians as Arabs because they can't find any Arabs willing to play the roles. The all too common casting of Indians in these roles could be considered racist. However, Arabs in Hollywood have been playing traditionally "white" roles for years - I bet you haven't even noticed. Think of the actors Vince Vaughn or Tony Shaulob. They're Arabs.
I am personally bored with seeing non-Middle Easterners playing Middle Easterners, be they White or Indian. I am from the Middle East and yes you will find a wide range of looks for Arab people. Some are very Caucasian looking, some are 'Latino' looking and some are very black looking, however for the most part many still have distinctivly Middle Eastern attributes in one way or another. I even know some who look pure Caucasian with blond hair and blue eyes, pink skin(like many from Syria) who after growing up in the West still dont consider themselves white and prefer brown.
Anyway... back on to the subject... I am pretty sure they could have found a Middle Eastern actor, not white or Asian, to play the role.
BTW I hav never quite understood how people could think Shaulob looks white. Vince Vaughn I understand, as he is only part Lebanese, but Shaulob (also Leb) just looks as brown as you can get
Review AE http://www.reviewae.blogspot.com & http://ireview-ae.blogspot.com
Shaulob has semitic features, but could easily pass for an Ashkenazim, which is considered a white ethnic group. The guy who plays his father on Monk is jewish, and they do indeed have a similar look.
Shaulob doesn't look 'as brown as you can get' as he doesn't have brown skin. He's paler than most southern Europeans, so by that standard you'd have to consider anyone south of Macedonia as being 'brown', which isn't the case.
When I meant brown, I meant Middle Eastern. He by no means looks white to me.
Review AE http://www.reviewae.blogspot.com & http://ireview-ae.blogspot.com
im offended. seriously because people talk so much *beep* about my people but wanna portray them for the money. im sudanese and moroccan.
Prince Of Arabiahttp://www.myspace.com/IIDonteII
You sound confused and stupid.
~~~~~~~
Think cynical thoughts.
Tony Shaloub plays 'white' people all the time, and he's arab.
And I don't think someone from India would be less 'offensive'. In fact middle-eastern people would probably find it *more* offensive.
Dunno if you know any arabs, but many can pass as 'white' (southern european usually).
Do you think if Ralph Nader was depicted in a film, it would be 'less offensive' to cast someone from India than a 'white' person? (note: Ralph Nader is arab)
This guy Dominic Cooper can easily pass as arab.
Note: Arabs are considered 'white' according to the US census.
Note: I'm neither arab nor white.
Haha, you made pretty much the exact same points I did a few posts above.
Other famous Arabs you (the OP) probably didn't even realize were Arabs:
Steve Jobs, Paula Abdul, Doug Flutie, John Sununu, Vince Vaughn. Would you be offended if an Englishman played one of them? You think an Indian would be more convincing?
The thing is, stick a bit of fake tan on him and Dominic Cooper can pass as Middle Eastern. The weirdest thing for me is that they've picked such a pretty boy for the part!
Gene Hunt: She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot
They are part of the caucasian race.
A lot of white people can pass for Arab and vice versa.
It's always Anglos that have such a difficult concept grasping this.
Anglo = Brits, Americans, Australians.....not so much Canadians.
You don't think Canada is an Anglosphere country? Genetically and culturally they are probably closer to the English than white Americans are, who have had much more substantial European immigration than Canada, not to mention some of the initial settlers being Scotch-Irish rather than Anglo-Saxon. Probably only about half of white Americans are substantially Anglo-Saxon at this point, while I'd hazard to guess that percentage is much, much higher in Canada.
share[deleted]
I meant that I couldn't see Canadians as being that instilled with the idea that they're the only white people on Earth other than Northern Europe.
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if Australians and Americans are Anglos, then so are Canadians
shareI am pretty sure everyone knows Paula Abdul is arab. I mean FFS, look at her name.
shareIts called acting. Its what actors do. To suggest you have to cast a white anglo saxon protestant only in white anglo saxon protestant roles misses the entire point by a million miles. Its not like acting is something new, its been around for quite a while so you should have been able to figure out what billions of people already know. Some portrayals are racists but portraying a man of another color, race, religion, hair color, dick size, is not. I hate to tell you this but you need to start all over again from pre-school. Whoever raised you and educated you *beep* up. *beep* up royally.
share