MovieChat Forums > Capitalism: A Love Story (2009) Discussion > Are people STUPID enough to believe this...

Are people STUPID enough to believe this crap??


It's like the moralization of a 6 year old; "Rich bad, poor good."
Moronic!

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It's more like "Poverty bad. Rich responsible"

Moore did focus on a major problem of corporate-government collusion which perverts and poisons the free market. But he neglects major root causes of our nation's economic woes.




"Atlas Shrugged"- See it soon --See it again!

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[deleted]

Well, it's no mystery that his progressive stance is a "democratic economy". Next he'll be wanting a "democratic religion", a "democratic food pyramid" and who knows what else. I guess he sees being controlled by 51% is so different than being governed by the 2%... as if more people believing something makes that thing "more right".



My "#3" key is broken so I'm putting one here so i can cut & paste with it.

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I'd say it's more like "Poverty bad. Greed responsible."

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The greed of government. Yep. Nothing on Earth is more insatiable than that type of greed. At least people had a choice to invest with Bernie Madoff. Americans don't have a choice to participate in government's ponzi schemes. Both were bad but government holds a monopoly of force. Don't want to participate in investments you don't have to, don't want to participate in paying taxes really bad things happen. Then men in suits show up then men in uniforms.

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No, the greed of Capitalism.

The problem with capitalism is that it never allows for "enough is enough". It doesn't matter that they post record profits and the CEO has more than enough money anyone would need for 1000 lifetimes. Even when they reach that point, they still want more. Profits are supposed to increase, always, no matter what. And this is not simply down to the investors wanting more, this is one of the central tenets of how the capitalist system is meant to work; if your profits drop or even just level off, then you're failing as a capitalist.

But eventually profits do stop increasing, it's unavoidable. And eventually you run out of good, healthy, stable methods of increasing profits, they become more and more scarce... and so they invariably resort to worse and worse methods. Which eventually results in things like the Great Crash and the 2008 Meltdown. The only thing that prevents those things from happening is regulation. Because the fat cats in capitalism who call the shots simply can't control themselves.

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If you ever took an economics course you'd learn that an economy is not a finite pie. Just because one person has more that doesn't mean someone has equally less. Did you ever take an economics course? No. You just parrot DNC liberal talking points. You want a fantasy land that's free of poor or sick people or an economy free of any downturns. Keep begging the government to do this and they'll have no choice but to lie to you because it isn't reality.

So explain to me how an entire economy isn't finite. That's your burden you're trying to prove. Marxism places no value on ideas just view humanity as nothing more than mindless beasts of burden. If you wouldn't be so brainwashed by Michael Moore's propaganda you'd realize this. BTW look up who Rexford Tugwell gave credit to for the New Deal. Hmmm... gee it was Hoover? No way! Yes its true government meddling even created the Dust Bowl if you're unfamiliar with the Homestead Act.

Deny the facts, reason and logic all you want statism is what destroys a nation not capitalism. Government busy bodies with nothing else to do but to create chaos and destruction so that the ignorant voting population will plead for more of their chaos and destruction and not even know it.

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I never said anything about a "finite pie" or poor not having money because the greedy took it all. The issue is that in capitalism there is no such thing as "enough" and they will do whatever it takes to get more. When they can't get more by legitimate and sensible means, then they will resort to scams that cause damage to the economy in general... which they don't really mind so much, because they have more than enough to weather the storm.

And you can go to Hell for supporting them. The "Gummint" wouldn't need to step in and regulate and bother with whatever legislation and Acts you're all up in arms over if not for the greedy fkcving everything up in the first place. You're the brainwashed one here, fool.

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There's nothing unjust about someone having a billion dollars if they played by the rules made by government. Nothing. If anything its the fault of government meddling that makes fewer and fewer people in power and rich. Its just pure jealousy that someone has more = that's not fair = they should have less = take the force of government and take his property away. Its nothing more than a lesson you should have learned long ago what is not your property is not your right to take against their will. Sorry some people are just going to have more than you. Deal with it. The only thing that keeps monopolies and people in power unchecked is government. Who the hell are you to say what is or what is not "enough". Oh gee you know it when you see it. Well take that logic to Cuba and see what they have to say about YOUR lifestyle.

"You can go to hell"??? Are you 9 years old? You're just a baby who doesn't like it when someone has more than you. That's all this is. Jealousy. You don't have a right to not be jealous. Move back to Communist Russia you'd be happy to see how that turned out. Goes to show no type of GREED is as insatiable than the greed of government. Its never a high enough tax rate for you. Never. And what's worse government owns a monopoly of force and to use that to satisfy your jealousy is at best disgusting.

Here's a question how come all these millionaires and billionaires liberals and Democrats who already made their money want all future tax rates increased for future millionaires/billionaires? What a noble gesture and doesn't have anything to do with power. Yeah right. lol at Warren Buffet wanting to pay a higher tax. According to his logic its like, "Hey sorry I robbed billions from the bank over many decades but I'll return a higher percentage of any future money I steal. See what a great guy I am! I'm so wonderful!" lol

Government's only basic functions are to protect our freedoms and individual property rights. For too long you and you ilk have been foregoing this notion and think it should be used as a hammer and sickle for whatever means justify your nebulous ends. You forgo economic logic for fantastical agendas with no realistic end until this country is destroyed.

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There's nothing unjust about someone having a billion dollars if they played by the rules made by government.


They literally pay the government to change the rules for them, e.g. the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which went through AFTER the banks broke the law and did the Citicorp-Travelers merger.

I don't care how much people have or how rich they get. The issue is what they will do to get there. They will do literally anything. They don't care who they hurt or what they destroy. They're truly evil, but you support them. You're scum.

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Gee I guess money is an impenetrable force against the innocent politicians and lawyers. Politicians have no choice to play favorites with them? Yes they have a choice because government owns a monopoly of force.

You want government bigger you'll only get more of cronyism. "You're scum." Who's going to read that and say, "Oh gee good point... rabble rabble rabble..." Go ahead and plug up your ears and make baby noises. You're just jealous. You're just backed into a corner faced with facts, reason and logic like a wild animals who can only hiss and draw your claws. lol

Grow up and be a responsible adult and stop begging to suckle on the government teet. btw if government programs like Obamacare is what you want then take it... if you can even get on the site lol... oh don't worry be patient you'll just be without insurance for months and government won't care if you die or your fellow man dies. Oh its the evil insurance companies... I see... so government couldn't forsee this epic mess? lol "Who could have forseen a 95% tax across the board on all companies and they would lay people off?... How evil of those companies!" lol

7 Signs You're Working With A Psychopath

"They constantly use the past tense.

Researchers have found psychopaths use past tense more than present tense, which could signal that they're detached from the present, writes Glass.
They use cause-and-effect statements.

"Because psychopaths are entitled and see the world and others as theirs for the taking, researchers at the University of British Columbia found that they used more words such as 'because' and 'so that'" says Glass, since they tend to rationalize their actions with their own logic.
They talk excessively about their basic needs.

Since they're typically not occupied with anything else, psychopaths think about their basic needs a lot, such as food, shelter, and clothing, writes Glass. When talking about their basic needs, psychopaths tend to use twice as many words as usual or provide too much information.
They don't take responsibility or blame.

Psychopaths usually think that they're the victims, which comes from their sense of entitlement, says Glass.

"The psychopath will speak of himself in grandiose terms while blaming others and taking no responsibility for his actions," she says. You can hear this in the lack and emotion of their voice.
They contradict themselves often.

This may even happen within the same sentence. "[Psychopaths] will lie or omit information when you ask them a question, but they may tell you the truth if you rephrase the question slightly. Researchers have discovered that this has to do with the particular way their brain is wired," says Glass.
They are really bad at crying.

"When [Susan Smith] gave a press conference and cried about her missing children, her fake tears were actually what raised suspicions that she was the killer," says Glass.

When psychopaths cry, Glass says they will often wipe underneath each eye, one at a time. "When people cry genuine tears they cry with both eyes, and so they will tend to wipe both eyes at once."
Their body language is different than what they say.

Glass says psychopaths will often say one thing, but their body language will tell a different story. For example, while saying the word "yes," the psychopath could be shaking their head no."

Pretty much you progressive liberals in a nutshell.

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So the crushing of the middle class for the benefit of the very few is a good thing? I don't always agree with Moorer and he certainly has an agenda, there is pleanty of proof everywhere that supports his basic premise here. To ignore it is, well, the American way I guess. Here is hiw you may want to look at it; "Rich, good. Greed, disabiltating".

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Greed is wonderful. Greed has been a catalyst in creating so much in the way of advancements. Th problem lies, not in greed, but the collusion of business and government to create unfair advantages and disadvantages under the illusion of a free market.

Add to that the saturation of the employee market through automation, population, EOE which creates a larger supply of workers than demand and we can see it's not the wealthy who are eroding the middle-class, but the middle class itself that lower class that have created the demand for supply, without creating the demand for their labor.

It's a stroking feeling to blame others for the problems, and some of that blame-laying is accurate- especially when we allow our government representatives to overstep the limits of their office or function. But in the end, we Americans have not created enough demand for American-made products or American labor. We cannot expect charity from business, but we should be demanding equality and fair treatment from our government.

And we should look to ourselves and determine what we, as individuals as well as a class, have done to lose our power and what we should be doing to regain it.


"Atlas Shrugged"- See it soon --See it again!

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gabby bm, that's an impressive post. The last sentence in your first paragraph is very good.

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[deleted]

Capitalism is great, when it's done correctly. Unfortunately, at some point, our government became a commodity in the free market. Add to that the stock market became a casino rather than a venue for investment and the whole damn thing is falling apart.




"Atlas Shrugged- Part 2"- Coming in 2012! --The saga continues!

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Of course there is only ONE alternative to Ayn Rand's style of Capitalism.


/sarcams off

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Yeah, but we already tried slavery and child labor. It's better to be free and homeless in Detroit than a slave in a cabin with food on your table. And it's certainly better to be a kid playing Xbox 12 hours a day than manufacturing shoes in some factory to put bread on the family's table.

(made-in-China "sarcasm toggle-switch" defective)



"Atlas Shrugged- Part 2"- Coming in 2012! --The saga continues!

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"Greed is wonderful. Greed has been a catalyst in creating so much in the way of advancements. Th problem lies, not in greed, but the collusion of business and government to create unfair advantages and disadvantages under the illusion of a free market."

As if that collusion were not a function of greed.

Some fellows get credit for being conservative when they are only stupid.
- Kin Hubbard

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Good point. That's why we need better, more efficient ways to control our representatives who are so easily corrupted by greed, selling our rights and our nation out from under us.
Greed is fine when you're selling a product. But our government is NOT a product. Our rights are not merchandise. The general welfare is not a stock option. And a campaign donation is certainly not a profit venture.
I don't want to control the people- just for the people to have more and better control of our government.



Boy, if this wasn't where I put my signature, I'd really let you have it!

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[deleted]

As i always say, a representative should never make more money than the median average income of their constituency. Your constituents make more money then the representative gets a raise.



"De gustibus non disputandum est"
#3

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by - gabby_bm o

" But in the end, we Americans have not created enough demand for American-made products or American labor."

So when all the industrial jobs were either destroyed our outsourced during Reagan's administration, how did that help create demand for American made products and American labor?

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It's up to the consumer to demand American-made products. The manufacturer will undoubtedly try to get the most at the least cost- even sending manufacturing overseas to do it. It's up to Americans to say "I will not buy your iPods, Steve. They are not made in America" I do not need a DVD that's made in China. Make it here in the USA and I will buy it.

And it's up to us to demand our government reinstate tariffs on imports in order to make foreign-produced goods as expensive as American-made goods, further encouraging American manufacturing.

It's not the Chinese factories making the rich richer. It's the consumers buying the product.



My "#3" key is broken so I'm putting one here so i can cut & paste with it.

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I hope Michael Moore makes a documentary on the Debt Crisis.

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well that would just be depressing, not at all like the feel good movies Capitalism and Sicko.....oh wait.

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It isn't bad to be rich, but you shouldn't abuse it by being greedy, that's the problem.

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the way i see it, it's okay to be rich but don;t forget humanity value.like the walmart issues a workers passed away but they(walmart) didn't do anything about it.

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To me the thing that speaks the loudest about this documentary is just how placid the American people have become.

As a whole it seems to me, myself included, that the country is not paying enough attention to the wheelings and dealing of these backroom deals between government and corporations. I know longer feel this is a country of the people and for the people, mainly because we don't give a crap.

Do what you like,
like what you do.
I'm just doing desserts & liquor.





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Dude, it's not the rich that are the problem. Is the movie called "Rich people: they are awful". No. The main injustices Moore illuminates in the movie are not perpetrated strictly by rich people, but by corporations. Rich people are the pawns in this injustice, and sometimes the catalysts or the enforcers, but they are not to blame.

If you are a part of a system that rewards bad behavior, bad behavior is to be expected. If the government started buying severed fingers, you would see a lot of people bringing in fingers for sale. Most of those fingers not their own.

Complacency by the rest of us is probably the bigger problem. Like most people who watch this documentary, I am going to watch it, get really mad, and do absolutely nothing about it. Those people who made a stand for their wages, or didn't move out of the house when evicted, made small changes in their lives. But until you are the one in that situation, most of us don't care enough to really try and make a change.

And I hate people who keep repeating the whole "capitalism is the best alternative" sentiment. Just because A is better than B doesn't mean A = good or shouldn't be looked at. From this video, it looks like we had it right 30 years ago, and screwed everything up with deregulation. The feds were breaking up evil monopolies like AT+T, and taking out bad seeds in the banking industry. We don't necessarily need to implement socialism, or find some other alternative to capitalism (by the way, I think it's hilarious that people think it is either capitalism or socialism). Maybe we just need to go back to the capitalism we had before.

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Rich people are the pawns in this injustice...
You know, this is the first time I've read someone refer to rich people as pawns.

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OP is apparently more than stupid enough to believe the opposite. I don't even like Michael Moore, especially Fahrenheit 9/11 was a joke, but this was a rather well balanced documentary about the exploits of an uncontrolled financial system. There's really not much to argue with here.

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A lot of people just believe whatever they see (more so than what they read)……the thing about Moore though is: he so often misleads/misrepresents things it’s hard to tell what actually is the truth. A good example is his presentation of the whole “Economic Bill of Rights” thing. He makes it sound like it just died with Roosevelt and was forgotten. But the fact is Truman actually asked Congress to consider it……and it got bi-partisan rejection as being too much.





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