The problem with identifying "the problem with this Country" is that it is an entire network of aspects.
Is there any non-biased reality here?
on either side?
Are the wrong people watching this movie?
why are there so many "i don't get it, so you shouldn't have to pay your rent?" threads? That is not what this movie is saying at all.
why did we let the American Product become a joke?
outsource all our jobs?
let all our factories close, meanwhile, rent, interest rates, and prices go up, yet... there are no jobs?
I'm sick of arguing over what to call this *beep* government. I don't care what we call it. How about we just save the people. Our People. Our Americans. As in, the people who are here and want to live and prosper. There can be no rich, if there is no working-class beneath it.
All The Mexicans who keep sneaking past our borders... just want better living and are looking for work. why not let them work and have them rebuild the rest of Nawlins?
all these "out of control teens" we see on Steve Wilko, why not let them babysit for the rich people who don't have the time to raise their own kids, instead of yelling and beating them and making them want to go get pregnant even more?
why not seize the diamond industry and put it towards ending the kidnapping, child soldiers and blood shed in conflict diamond areas?
there is WAY too much food on this planet to have an excuse for ANY human being to starve.
why do we keep lowering the bar examinations in our education?
why do we put so much money into creating weapons, when we can direct it towards vaccinations and cures?
Ten years ago I would have taken great umbrage at that statement.
Then I saw the movie "Idiocracy."
We're looking at Belize, or the Netherlands.
I moved my family to Japan where I make more money, pay lower taxes, and have more freedom. I would have moved to Canada, but its too damn cold. I have no intention of ever going back because I don't think the American empire will crumble and be rebuilt fast enough. I'd love to open my business in the US but I don't trust Wall Street or the bankers to not hurt me as a small businessman any less than they would a typical "peasant".
--- A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. - David Hume
Thanks for the dim-witted, immature, jackass response to the original poster. Now please find the nearest toilet bowl and stick your head into it and flush.
This is a really good post. There are some people who try to fight the system from within and open up peoples' eays. Michael Moore is one of them. The Yes Men are others. I hope that there is still time to save your country, and the rest of the world. It was easier to keep up good morals in a time when most people had personal experience of manual labour and lead a more 'simple' life. Today, consumerism and shallowness are big monsters to fight in the struggle for good.
What can we do?
Make love, not war! I've had enough of all the hate on these boards.
Isn't the answer to all these why's pretty much the entire chapter in one of Moore's books about dangling the carrot in front of the horse?
Everyone wants to be rich. The illusion of it is far greater then reality nowadays.
Tell people stats like your more likely to die in a car accident then be rich they'll be like 'yeah.....i know eh' but deep down their still thinking '....but im gonna be rich AND YOU will die in a car accident.....sucker'.
In the light of the post by evanmang87 (Sun Oct 24 2010 11:08:56) I wish to alter my original input to this discussion, and change the percentage given to 90%
I'd say the problem in this country is that we aren't demanding more from the government, which seems to be formed of 2 warring parties that fight each other like street gangs with no interest in what is good for the country, just their own selfish party. We also don't try to take responsibility ourselves for getting into debt and trying to avoid all that. You don't have to buy things you don't need.
Not one intelligent post on this whole thread. You guys define "greed" as "not giving enough hand-outs". People are not obliged to take care of you -- not Wall Street, not the rich and certainly not the government. The reasons jobs are dwindling, the economy is in the tank, people are losing their homes, etc. has everything to do with government policy, not so much an easy-to-blame elite being "greedy".
Why not let illegal Mexicans in here to rebuild New Orleans? Because illegal immigration is a felony. And didn't you just ask why there are jobs are disappearing? I thought you wanted Americans to have jobs. Why not give homeless people some money? Probably because they'll spend it on drugs or booze. That's the reason why many of them stand around asking for handouts: they can't work because they're dysfunctional addicts. Why not give universal health care for those who can't afford it? Because it'll raise costs, lower quality and cause rationing.
You people ought to pick up a book or at least do some better research besides sitting around, swallowing up propaganda from bleeding heart film makers, because you're seriously deluded.
and here is humanity's biggest problem, "a lack of trust in the fellow man". If we don't trust one another or believe in what we believe in(as oppossed to some government or corporation telling us what to believe) then why are living on this rock together. We might as well go live in another planet. As long as we live together, we must trust ourselves and the people to do the "right thing".
Yes because so many Americans are vying for the jobs illegal immigrants do including New Orleans clean-up.
Maybe they are.
The fact is as a people, whether conservative or liberal, Americans feel entitled and most of the yuppies who got laid off in the finance sector will probably eat a bullet before they get their hands dirty doing manual labor for paltry wages. Hence why you'll see these office dweebs job hunting for months while unemployed because taking a part-time job as a supermarket cashier or working a frylator is beneath them let alone doing waste cleanup.
"Entitled"? Maybe they just want to continue their careers. So what if they would rather wait around for a decent job while in the meantime being unemployed? I don't see anything wrong with this. Why would a finance officer who's used to $50k a year need to get a job at McDonald's?
That's certainly true but giving the guy a few bucks doesnt make things worse.
Worse in what way? This makes no sense at all. It's his money to give, and I for one do not want to support someone's drug habit.
Point is we talk out of both sides of our mouths hence why young children are so confused during their first few encounters with the homeless.
Who's "we"? You seem to enjoy using ambiguities and generalities.
And I don't recall myself having ever been "confused" when meeting a bum for the first time. I don't even remember it. Was this some traumatic event for you, meeting your first bum and being confused?
Even the most ardent conservatives have been conditioned to be total p-ssies- they get humpty if the espresso machine being jammed at Starbuck's means they have to drink regular coffee, they bang the drum for war and have the hubris mentality of some outdated imperialist power yet 70% of our draft-age male populace is ineligible due to obesity and prescription emds and health problems...this pussification of America and being spoiled, fat, lazy, stupid, whiny is as much a byproduct of conservative households as liberal ones yet the left gets blamed for it. The conservatives just pretend being cowardly is a left-wing problem and use "manliness" to justify a beer gut, being uncultured and un-worldly and watching sports. At least liberals aren't afraid of books or believe them a symbol of being effeminate or geeky.
I have no clue what you're babbling about now. You're as much confused as anyone you're claiming is confused. No, I don't recall many people freaking out over having to drink regular coffee as opposed to espresso, and I seem to recall plenty of liberals/progressives banging the war drum (including Obama). Your nonsense on liberals not being afraid of books and whatnot just shows what a deluded idiot you are.
You haven't made one decent argument here. What's more, you have failed to defend any of your prior arguments, which you seemed to have conveniently forgotten. Aoifel handed your a*s to you too.
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So at a time of high unemployment, how come they aren't packing up and going over en masse, especially the droves of unmarried 20 somethings with no commitments? Stop spewing BS. "Maybe they are"...how weak a retort. Let some Mexican migrants clean up New Orleans and quit your whining, they didnt "steal" anyone's job.
Just wanted to pop in and say that if there were no welfare and no unemployment compensation that those jobs probably WOULD be getting done by those non-immigrants who need to eat. But yeah, since there are those safety nets, I find it difficult to believe the immigrants "stole" anyone's job.
So at a time of high unemployment, how come they aren't packing up and going over en masse, especially the droves of unmarried 20 somethings with no commitments? Stop spewing BS. "Maybe they are"...how weak a retort. Let some Mexican migrants clean up New Orleans and quit your whining, they didnt "steal" anyone's job.
"Maybe they are," means just that. I don't know if they are or not. Neither do you. However, you think you do, but you reasoning for your conclusion is beyond idiotic. There are numerous factors involved, one of which includes moving. Do you really think everyone is just so keen to start a new life, even if it's just for a year or so, in a ruined city? Then there's also the factor of pay. Maybe some of these jobs aren't worth it for people for the pay being offered. Then of course maybe people just don't want to get some job for the sake of having a job. There are plenty of other things to take into consideration as well -- which you didn't. You are either just that simple-minded or naive. Either way, your general attitude of, "If you're unemployed you should just take whatever job's out there," is just stupid.
Point is some people have been searching for 2 freakin' years now. I'm all for unemployment benefits, you're the conservative after all, but the idea is still nonetheless "I will keep looking but in the meantime wont even work to pay some bills if the job is beneath me".
Yes, and jobs in the fast food industry still pay sh*t. People's time have a price depending on what they do for a living. A CEO of a Fortune 500 company earns hundreds of dollars an hour. He doesn't believe it's worth his time to work at McDonald's for $9 an hour. That's his choice. There's nothing wrong with this so long as he's not mooching.
A huge chunk of the American population works "those jobs" and yes they suck and are demeaning but if you're really trying so hard why not job search while working something crappy in the meantime? It's sort of funny because I'm the wimpy progressive, you're the conservative, yet the idea of having an education but having to dig ditches when you have to is so astounding to a self-determined man like yourself.
Do you think these unemployed people spend their days sitting around twiddling their thumbs while waiting on interviews and call-backs for their more ideal job? Sounds like you do. Who says these guys have to dig ditches? I'm sure if their lives were on the line they would, but if they're not looking for some piece of sh*t job which pays peanuts, and which takes up their time -- time they could spend looking for another job or taking care of any number of things they have to do in their lives, then obviously they DON'T have to.
Do you even live on your own? Sure sounds like you don't. If you're so curious why someone used to a $50k a year salary doesn't run to a menial job which pays under half that per year, perhaps you should ask them instead of jumping to asinine conclusions -- or rather, assumptions.
It's an example.
It's an example you used to stereotype a group of people. Classy.
I've seen conservatives and liberals and just plain over-entitled Americans in general throw hissy fits and harass and accost anyone working in service industries.
Self-entitlement isn't limited by political views, economic class or race. You can see rich, white snobs treat fast food workers like sh*t just like you can with poor, ghetto blacks. Whether they're conservative or liberal has nothing to do with it. As I said earlier, you're just using some silly, irrelevant "example" as a means to stereotype a group of people -- all in some pathetic attempt to prove a dumb point.
If you act like the world is crumbling down around you over insignificant stuff than you're a p-ssy and that's what America is- a bunch of child-like p-ssies who throw temper tantrums when things don't go their way all the time.
OK, if you weren't stereotyping before, you definitely are now.
Like a typical unenlightened gimp you equate Democrats with liberals and progressives even though the Dems would be center or center-right in most Western democracies.
Dipsh*t, I never mentioned Democrats. I only mentioned Obama. Yes, it's entirely, 100%, without a doubt true that it's a bipartisan effort by conservatives, neocons, liberals, progressives, Democrats and Republicans to "bang the war drum". Again though, I only specifically mentioned Obama before, which you even quoted, and Obama definitely does not strike me as a conservative.
Whatever he may be though, the main point is that you are falling for the party myth that one side is good and only does such and such. It's not. You're a gullible fool if you think only conservatives, even on a general basis (as opposed to absolute), are war mongers.
In the UK the rightist Tories call the NHS a "national treasure" and there are no major right-wing parties that would scrap public health care in any West European country yet Obama's plan, which is a far cry from European-style health care, is ravingly "Marxist".
Whatever hard-left, idiot, European politicians think is none of my concern. We are getting into a debate of political labels, and that's besides the point. I'm also not interested in getting into a health care debate at this point either.
It's like whenever I ask you simpletons what, besides the big evil scary health care proposal, is "liberal" about Obama's policies and you never get back to me.
I can't speak for these other "simpletons" you spoke to, but have you ever paid even a modicum bit of attention to Obama's numerous environmental policies and bills? The guy's a global warming nut.
Again though, all this is irrelevant. You still haven't supported your original arguments, let alone anything in regards to Moore's movie.
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How do you not know? People aren't going down there in droves, there's actually jobs available there.
Yes, and like I said, people actually have certain things they want from a job. Are you actually this much of an idiot that you think people should just choose any job that's around? There are plenty of contracting jobs in Iraq and Afghanistan. Guess people should just move to the Middle East because there are jobs there.
And don't give me some jive about ambitious 25 year old fiannce major Scott whose been unemployed since he graduated in 2009 and how he'd totally go down and clean up New Orleans if it weren't for the fact some evil Mexicans stole the job opportunities which is what you're inferring.
No one gave you any "jive", you imbecile. Why would a finance major go do work in something besides his career if he doesn't have to? What exactly do you do for a living? Are you employed? Sounds like you aren't. Tell you what, move out of Mom and Dad's and get some real life experience before you go around talking sh*t on people who actually make their own living.
But technically he is mooching if he's been collecting unemployment, something you conservatives were dead-set against extending and only allowed Obama to pass when he decided to stop railing against ending tax-cuts for the wealthiest Americans.
How do you know he's mooching? Once again, you are stereotyping. You're making up this scenario in which every white collar person who's unemployed is sitting on their a*ses collecting unemployment while being super picky about their next job. I doubt you even know any of these people, or if you do, it's small enough to count on one hand. In fact, in general you consistently talk out of your a*s. Shut up and get a job yourself, you loser. You don't even know how unemployment benefits work.
Without unemployment, unemployed Republicans AND Democrats would have to bite the bullet and start flipping burgers for $8/hr or in many states even less.
OR they would use their savings, borrow money from friends/relatives, move in to a cheaper living space, etc.... Yeah, figures you wouldn't think of that. You're a small-minded, sheltered douche.
Who knows, working in the kitchen or a dish room for a busy restaurant like an undocumented Brazilian might teach them something about the hard work they believe the working-class doesn't do...
Yup, white collar people are all just a bunch of stuck-up snobs who think the "working class" (which they apparently aren't and have never been a part of since they've never held a job) are just a bunch of slack bums....
If you're willing to concede these people do work hard for their menial wages, maybe you should pull your tongue out of the rich's ass for a minute and appreciate them more, no?
Who said I don't appreciate them? Yes, it's very evident you have this imbecilic notion that anyone who's not out there making sh*t pay while toiling in hard manual labor sticks their noses up at the lower class, blue collar world. There's where you make it evident you are a high-order idiot. I've done hard work, a*shole, but obviously you haven't, and obviously you don't make any money to be proud of. Besides, I don't see you picking up a shovel. Why don't you go do that, hypocrite.
I spent nearly a year working 55 hours a week and doing any odd jobs on the side as well, working at a pizza parlor and a bakery, some days I'd start 4 AM at the bakery and work the pizza parlor until 10. Why? Because I needed money and the job I thought I had lined up fell through because the company downsized in the wake of the financial crisis.
No one's going to cry because a d*ckhead like you had to actually work. Hey, why don't you go move to New Orleans and help out those "evil" Mexicans you like to bring up so often?
So I spent a year working while job searching and trying to expand my opportunities by getting an educator's license and even trying to get a managerial position in the bakery so I'd at least have salary and benefits for awhile.
Oh, so you mean you took on a low-skill/-qualifications job while you went to school? (clap clap) Congratulations, you are part of millions of college kids who do the same exact thing.
Point is I understand how much these jobs are spirit-crushing and suck, I got out as soon as I could.
No, I think the real point is you're just bitter you had to work a sh*t job while others didn't. I've been down the unemployment route and tried to get any job I could. However, never did I sit there and complain about others who weren't stuck in the same boat as me, nor did I make up the absurd stereotype that those who make a decent living or have qualifications for a high-end job were "p*ssies" because they didn't and wouldn't do what I had to do. You're just a crybaby who thinks he's had a hard life. Trust me, no one cares.
I balanced out doing what I had to do to find a better job with working so the idea that the unemployed can't at least get a job for a few hundred extra bucks in their pocket a week before allowing themselves to fall into debt with bills and such is beyond me.
This has been addressed numerous times already; you're just too stubborn to pull your head out of the sand -- or really, out of your a*s.
I never said anything of the sort.
Yeah, you did. You continually bring up a single party as doing such and such, or a single political group (i.e. liberals/progressives and conservatives). All the political problems in modern society are caused by both, so to bring up one or the other like you have been doing is pointless, and indicates you have fallen for the party myth.
I just disagree with your assertion that because Democrats voted to give Bush the ability to invade Iraq or supported the war, that LIBERALS all did.
I didn't say they ALL did. You were speaking in general times, and so was I. Obviously there was one liberal out there who voted against it....
30% of the country did not support the war in 2003 and I remember PLENTY of protests.
Irrelevant.
I won't ask you why trying to make environmental improvements, policies that actually once were bi-partisan concerns and much progress was made by Nixon and Bush Sr, is such a horrific idea because I'm sure I'll hear some stupid, anti-science argument.
Yeah, that's where your idiocy shines through: You think these things are "improvements". Either way, the point is they're considered liberal ambitions. I personally don't give two sh*ts if they fall under "liberal" or whatever, but you were claiming Obama's agenda contains very few "liberal" goals.
Gotta love the GOP "drill baby drill" screaming about the BP spill and how Obama didn't do enough yet they're the ones who pushed and succeeded in overturning his wimpy 6 month ban on deep sea drilling in the Gulf. America deserves what it gets.
Moron, the GOP has been trying to increase the areas where companies are allowed to drill to save money on paying for foreign oil. Like it or not, we need oil, so it makes no sense to keep going over to the Middle East for their oil when we have some here in the States. The reason for the BP spills are a completely separate issue. There causes had to do with safety shortcuts and big government over-regulation. On top of that, Obama and the Democrat-controlled house failed to help. So rather than put the blame on them, you claim it was the GOP's fault for wanting to increase domestic drilling allowances. Well done, ignoramus.
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You're contradicting yourself by saying I don't have a job but I don't get unemployment, eh???
No, I'm not, because being unemployed is only one of the qualifications for receiving unemployment benefits. This is rather amusing since you have been discussing unemployment and I pointed out that you don't understand how it works. This just proves my point.
In fact your general outrage that I'm possibly accusing laid-off white collar workers, many of whom once railed against welfare for the poor, of being a bit whiny and lazy shows I must have hit a nerve.
Who are these white-collar workers who "railed against" welfare for the poor, and when did they stop doing this (as your comment implies)?
No, you're deluded if you think you "hit a nerve". You're one of those narcissistic idiots who thinks you're winning when you can't even stick coherently to a point and make a case.
You're actually more of a liberal than I am right now because I'm the one saying suck it up, work whatever job you can. Do you even know why you are Republican?
Once again, amusing, because before you claimed you didn't buy into the party myth, but once again you're trying to use it for an argument. I'm actually neither liberal nor Republican. My views do not conform to either party, which is why I did not register as a Democrat, Republican or in fact anything. Calling you an ignorant clown for stereotyping a bunch of people you don't know and for being narrow-minded, naive and even gullible doesn't make me anything in terms of political views or parties.
I'm paying taxes for your unemployment...
I have a job, and even when I was unemployed, I received no benefits, you jackass. Looks like you completely missed the mark as usual.
You are a p-ssy, get over it.
Look who's the one crying about how he had to work hard.
Irrelevant because you couldn't check your facts before making a sweeping assertion that the war in Iraq was supported across the board in 2003?
Irrelevant because it doesn't change the fact that the invasion was a bipartisan effort, meaning it was neither a liberal nor a conservative effort. Citing some poll of those against the war, especially when the figure in the poll doesn't even indicate how many of those against the war were liberal, has nothing to do with anything. It was completely pointless to bring it up and only further confirms you as a fool. Obama and his administration is just as much a bunch of war mongers as Bush and his administration.
You're just upset I called you out on your silly ass attempts to rewrite history. You might want to venture outside of reading Ann Coulter.
Re-write history? Makes no sense at all. Did you take your meds?
And, wrong, dipsh*t, I don't read Ann Coulter as I dislike the b*tch.
So what do you propose be done about the environmental problems?
Whatever I think should be done, it certainly doesn't affect the fact that the bullsh*t Obama is writing or trying to write into law isn't "improvements" except to Big Business.
So it is a real threat that is recognized by the Pentagon, by international organizations, by most developed countries' governments despite what Sarah Palin and the oil men say and no, praying to Jesus isnt going to help us, this is why we need adult thinking and not child-like thinking on serious issues like this.
That's rather silly logic: You're saying since certain environmental threats are recognized by a number of supposedly credible parties, that means that all this stuff Obama is and has pushed through Congress is helping the problem? Even if all these threats were legitimate, it's only the problem, and you're equating anything done in regards about it as helping to solve the problem. To illustrate this (give an example to make my point clear), it's like you saying it's an "improvement" to throw gasoline on a fire in your kitchen since the fire's a real threat to burning down your house.
The fact of the matter is Obama is a puppet, and much if not all of the stuff he pushes through in regards to "environmental improvements" benefits Big Busines, not so much the environment.
The oil we have here is only enough to last a decade or less and we will STILL have to through OPEC, Venezuela and other sources.
So we'll have 10 years worth of cheaper oi, and that's IF we use ONLY that.
Besides, if the GOP was so set against going to the Middle East...
I never said or even implied they were. Try again. The GOP, just like the Democrats, enjoy going to war in the Middle East and playing world police.
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Value of work What makes you think that; "A CEO of a Fortune 500 company earns hundreds of dollars an hour" isn't mooching. CEOs are the biggest moochers of them all. Most of them perform no useful purpose, but consume vast resources.
Most frycooks at McDonalds work harder in a single morning than most CEOs do in a year, and are under more pressure. At the end of the day, there is no golden handshake or share offering for these people, just the unemployment line.
Obama Slagging I can tell you that in Canada, Obama would be considered to be the political right of our current conservative government. If our government allowed our healthcare to be watered down to the extent the american plan has been, they would have been lynched.
Global Warming Firstly, global warming is here and a reality. While the jury is out on the reasons behind global warming, it stands to reason that if we, as humans, MAY be contributing to it's effects, that we should do our best to mitigate our effect and possibly slow down a natural phenomenon instead of exascerbating it. There is no black and white solution here, so get your head out of the sand.
In the meantime, pursuing alternative forms of energy, which pollute less and consume fewer imported resources just make sense. Cheaper oil simply encourages the continued use of oil as primary source of energy and discourages development of alternates. In the 1980's and 90's American car companies failure to react to rising oil prices resulted in giving up their place of supremacy in domestic sales. Is this failed experiment not enough to get us to change our ways? Failure to plan is planning for failure.
Life is not about bickering over who's skydaddy is better.