MovieChat Forums > Up in the Air (2009) Discussion > Why did Alex act like it was obvious (sp...

Why did Alex act like it was obvious (spoilers)....?


...why did she act like it was obvious to Ryan that she was married and had a family?

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My take is that to her it was obvious that they were playing at a fantasy, because 1) she was, and 2) it would not occur to her that his life really was the travel with no one at home waiting for him.

The wedding would have given hints; but when he showed up at her door, that might have been the first time that she fully realized that he had no life other than the travel.

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If anything, when Clooney invites her to the wedding...that's when she should/could have told him that she was actually married.

I realize it was supposed to serve as a 'twist' in the plot. But it just didn't work for me. They went out of their way to show us that Alex was basically a female version of Clooney, but then they throw this in and it shows that she's really nothing like him?

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She wasn't acting like it was obvious that she was married with kids, she was acting like it was obvious what kind of relationship they had. It's kind of like how he was always in the express lines for flights and hotels. This relationship, to him at the start, and to her always, was like that. Quick, effcient, conveniant. Skip over the tedious parts, get some sex, some company on the road, and that's it.

I don't think it's a matter of her "not knowing he didn't have a 'real' life". I think she didn't even consider it, didn't care whether he did or not, or just assumed that he did.

Interestingly enough, the deleted scenes portray Alex to be more invested in the relationship, saying how she misses him and talking about the future. I think the scenes/lines Jason Reitman chose to omit really tightened the film.

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"Interestingly enough, the deleted scenes portray Alex to be more invested in the relationship, saying how she misses him and talking about the future. I think the scenes/lines Jason Reitman chose to omit really tightened the film."

He should have deleted the wedding scenes too, because they don't follow the story properly. It isn't a fantasy if he is bringing her to a wedding. The fact they wrote and created those deletes scenes just further uncovers how bad the plot was constructed for this movie. It comes across like they wanted to show a guy with no real life, and put him in a situation to deal with a change to it by meeting someone.

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I agree. The part revealing that she really had a family was aggravating because I was enjoying the movie and it just seemed to come out of nowhere. The main reason was because it made no sense why she would go to a wedding with a man who was just a temporary lover. Does she not see that he's growing closer to her and that inviting her to a wedding is a cue that he wants to take the relationship to the next level? If she just wants a man to sleep with, can she really not find someone else when Ryan gets too involved?

I think Jason Reitman shouldn't written this part quite differently. For example, if he wanted the tragic twist, he could've just had Alex be single, but have her leave Ryan because she meets another guy - she meets another guy who's more fun and exciting and she realizes she's not ready for the steady routine of a settled life. Another thing Reitman could've done is revealed that she had a family early to the audience before Ryan finds out. Then we could've seen what Alex's motivation was in going with Ryan to the wedding - for example, maybe she was considering leaving her family for him and can't decide, but then when Ryan shows up, she realizes how important her kids are to her (or something like that). The point is, her actions don't make sense after that plot twist and it should've been clarified in some way.

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>>I agree. The part revealing that she really had a family was aggravating because I was enjoying the movie and it just seemed to come out of nowhere.

But it is foreshadowed brilliantly by the scene where Alex describes her perfect man:

What about you?
- Let me think.


You know, honestly, by the time you're 34, all the
physical requirements just go out the window.


Like you secretly pray
that he'll be taller than you.


Not an *beep* would be nice. Just someone who
enjoys my company, comes from a good family.


You don't think about that
when you're younger.


I don't know...
someone who wants kids.


Likes kids. Wants kids


Healthy enough to play with his kids.


Please let him earn more money
than I do.


You might not understand that now,
but believe me, you will one day.


Otherwise that's a recipe for disaster.


And hopefully some hair on his head.


But I mean even that's not
a deal breaker these days.


A nice smile.


Yeah, a nice smile.
Nice smile just might do it.

Ryan doesnt talk about *his* ideal. It would have been an absurd question for him. This makes him different from Alex, but he doesnt realize what it is until he rings that doorbell. He doesnt pick up that clue ... that she wants that. If she wants it, why *wouldnt* she get that? - she's damn hot.

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And in that scene, Alex lets Natalie believe that (1) Alex is single, and (2) Ryan is her ideal man, as she stares at him while making her statements. She lets Ryan believe that as well.

As the film progresses, Natalie challenges Ryan about this. I am paraphrasing, but she calls out Ryan on his "bull**** philisophy" and points out how Alex runs Ryan's "gauntlet of tests and comes out the other end smiling", and yet Ryan still treats their relationship like a casual fling. She challenges Ryan to "grow up" and commit to Alex more deeply, and coming from a rather young character like herself, that leaves an impression on Ryan.

When Ryan invites Alex to be his guest at the wedding of his relatives (and thus meeting his family, however estranged he may be from them), Alex should have told her something about her personal life, rather than leading him on further. This is especially true when Ryan shows Alex where he grew up, went to school, etc.

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I'm thinking we're not supposed to care about Alex's motivations, character flaws, reasoning, etc....only Ryan's.
When he showed up at her door, Ryan realized that she's not like him at all. Before that, he thought Alex was doing the same thing he was. After, he knew that to Alex, he was nothing. He looked like a total fool.

Just like in his job, when he was told his life's work could be replaced with a video conference, he found the same emptiness in what he thought was a good relationship with Alex.

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Thank you! I commented on this foreshadowing on another thread because I couldn't believe nobody else had caught this little clue from Alex.

It doesn't justify Alex's adultery, but I for one wasn't surprised by the revelation that Alex was married with children.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

> The part revealing that she really had a family was aggravating because I was enjoying the movie and it just seemed to come out of nowhere.

Me too. She really acted like she wanted more from him, like she really, really liked him and was touched. She didn't act like she considered it super casual. If she had, she would have been weirded out by going to the wedding.

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I don't see her attending the wedding as a sign of real commitment. He asks her to accompany him so he is not "the lonely man in the corner"; he wants a dancing partner and if she can stomach that, then he wants her there. The way he asks her to go is not showing a promise, is just a casual invitation, so she agrees.

When they meet the older sister in the hallway she asks if they are dating, and both of them laugh, not giggle or look into each other's eyes, but just laugh...

I believe that Alex thought both of them had their priorities clear; she didn't talk much about her real life and Ryan had no real life. Both of them and practical looking for convenient not demanding relations that kept them amused while traveling. Going to the wedding meant she cared for him and wanted to have a good time, but having clear the type of relation they have.

You're forgetting the golden rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

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@assenath. Exactly.To tell you the truth I am a little surprised by how many people on the Up In The Air board don't see It that way.When I first watched the movie there was no way I would've thought the Alex character would go in that direction.However I think it's because I didn't expect the female role to be how they 9 times out of 10 reserve that for the male roles(I didn't even consider it).Yet once the movie was over.I thought back on things Alex said and her facial expressions and it all made sense.However even after watching the entire movie, people are still saying but why did she go to the wedding? .The first time watching the movie everyone gets a pass for not thinking Alex would be what her character turned out to be because movies and tv shows don't often depict women being able to not fall in love with a man because she's having sex with him and he's being nice to her.After you watch it again and think it through.Her point of view and reasons for feeling like Ryan was on the same page should be as clear as day.

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[deleted]

They went out of their way to show us that Alex was basically a female version of Clooney, but then they throw this in and it shows that she's really nothing like him?

Because when they first met she WAS like him, but then his character changed halfway through the movie and she stayed the same so their needs were no longer compatible

or maybe not, lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZrTfz10VFs

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Seems like you haven't been hurt by a woman, dude. I agree it's weird she didn't tell him but her reaction was what a lot of men have experienced. A behaviour that you just can't believe seeing in someone you loved.

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@jbowmore. When Ryan first mention he wants her to go with him, the look on her face isn't happy.She gives a oh no, is he getting to close look(now that you know her mindset.Watch the movie again and you will see it).She only agrees to go once he made it seem like it didn't mean anything serious(Alex doesn't want anything serious with him).Since Alex is married and seems like she doesn't want her family to be destroyed by her cheating being exposed.She made sure to do her homework on him.When she googled his name and listening to what he had to say on the boat.She figured he was a no strings attached kind of guy, Mr.Empty backpack.So, I don't think she knew he would come to her house,let alone without telling her in advance.

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...why did she act like it was obvious to Ryan that she was married and had a family?

She openly has ongoing affairs behind her husband's back.. I'm going to say she's a bit selfish?

or maybe not, lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZrTfz10VFs

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I liked that part when she calls him and accuses him of being a child as it was a little bit like 'pot calling the kettle black'. She was definitely playing the part of a child as well. I don't think that it's that strange that she played such a double life so well, I think a lot of people do that, slip into a different person for a while and then return to another persona. I think she was very much liking the wild gal lifestyle and did not want anything to interfere with the fantasy, especially to tell Ryan that she was a married mom.

Everyone gets everything he wants.

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I did think the wedding date and the married with children discovery were incongruous scenes for reasons mentioned in this thread. The only way it becomes believable is if Alex really had a broad definition of what their affair fantasy was about. But that's a bit of a stretch. I mean, who hooks up casually with someone and, without a clear discussion about what it means, attends a sister's wedding as a couple? She shouldn't have assumed that Ryan also thought it was nothing.

If anything we're always supposed to assume that it's the man who will be the cad. Most men know from experience that this is not always the case, its very much a two-way street.


Auto-Tune is not a genre, please stop treating it as such.

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I don't think she was acting as if it was obvious to him that she was married and had a family, I think she was acting as if it was obvious that he was way overstepping the bounds of their 'relationship'. She never gave him her address, he found it out, and decided to visit her on a whim.

In fairness to her, she never even verbally hinted at the idea that their relationship was more than it was. In fact, even when it came to attending his sister's wedding her initial reaction was "umm hell no we do not do things like that" than being ecstatic that he was maybe trying to take it to the next level. If you rewatch the movie it appears that the reason she changed her mind was because as he talked about it she thought he was explaining it as a type of 'fantasy/game' thing, which is exactly what she took their relationship to be. So she went along with it because after all, he was an escape to her. A game, a parenthesis.

Besides that, Ryan was pretty selfish in his own right in the way he played out the last few scenes with her. All his life he put on the persona of someone who saw commitments and close relationships to people as extra baggage and then suddenly when he gets a change of heart he expects everyone around him to be jumping for joy to yield to him finally maturing. Thats not realistic, and he was put in his place twice for thinking the world revolved around when he decided he wanted to get involved, first when he asked his sister to walk her down the aisle, and second with Alex.

Now, all that said, in fairness to him, she was heartless. Not because she was sleeping with a man with no strings attached, but because she was married with a family and doing it. Obviously we have no idea what the relationship was like between her and her husband so we can't even begin to speculate about him 'driving her to it' (don't believe in that anyway) but there is no excuse for doing that to your kids. And I'm not talking about traveling and being away a lot to provide for them, I'm talking about putting their whole family situation in jeopardy by having an affair(s) that if found out she knew could ruin it.

Also, she was pretty careless. Of course he agreed with his mouth that it was just a casual thing, but after awhile she should have gotten hints and reaffirmed with him what it was, or simply just stopped seeing him for awhile so he could put their relationship back into perspective on his own. But from going to the sister's wedding, to touring his old high school and hearing old stories about his life, etc...she should have nipped it in the bud. She never showed him any part of her life so that affirms that her feelings never changed, but she should have known with him showing her all that he did about himself that MAYBE things were changing for him, and treaded cautiously.

"For all I know you're a gangster. And I don't ride with no gangsters"

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I agree that whole thing annoyed me. I could buy that she saw this as a fling and was not as invested in the relationship as Ryan, but her being so cold on the phone to him (after he committed the blunder of showing up at her house), calling him a "parenthesis" to her life, was really over the top. I mean, at no point during this movie did we get the idea she was a total ice-cold person. The idea that she had absolutely no f'in clue that yeah, maybe he really liked her, is ridiculous. And for her to be so nasty to him? Why couldn't she just say, Ryan, I'm so sorry, I thought you understood, you are wonderful but I am married, I should have made it clear, I can't offer you more but I have loved every minute of being with you.

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[deleted]

this annoyed me too. didn't seem consistent with the rest of her character.

www.dandollar.com

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Well I thought that was sort of the point of that scene: Ryan did not really know Alex that well. He had an idea of who she was, but because of the nature of their relationship and how it started, he was never really in a position to get to know her all that deeply. By showing up at her door, Ryan completely pulled her out of her fantasy world with him. Remember, they were not meeting up and then having fancy dinners together. They were crashing parties, running barefoot through hotels, and breaking into schools to make-out. Suddenly she was hit with the cold, hard truth and she did not like it one bit.

The audience really only sees Alex from Ryan's point-of-view. His perception of people is skewed because he has never formed any meaningful, lasting relationships.

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i don't think this was that kind of movie. what you see on screen is what's happening in real life. the audience sees ryan's reactions to things, is that what you meant?

www.dandollar.com

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Yeah, I mean, as far as I recall, there were not any scenes of Alex where Ryan was not also in the scene. (ok, sometimes they were on the phone, but you understand). There were no scenes of Alex struggling at work, or of her dealing with her family, or taking care of her sick mother. For example, in real life, after the part where Ryan and Alex are texting dirty, Alex probably called her husband ten minutes later to check up on the family. The audience never sees that though. The way we see Alex is the way Ryan sees Alex. Thus, it is an incomplete picture of who she is. The problem is that Ryan, because of the life he has had, does not realize that he has a very limited window into her life. Most of us, if we met someone in that situation, might suspect they were married, or had another relationship, or had another life where they actually live. Ryan just assumed she was like him and never bothered to dig deeper. So in the end, when Ryan suddenly decided he wanted a deep, meaningful relationship with Alex and just assumed that she would come along for the ride, it ws UNFAIR to Alex and she called him out on it.

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that's pretty interesting, but i still don't think that's what the director intended. she obviously chose to attend ryan's sister's wedding with him, which isn't something he made up in his mind. some of the other posts here point to the problem better than i can.

www.dandollar.com

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Yeah, but even when she was attending the wedding, she still seemed to treat it more as a goofy interlude instead of a serious relationship thing. Also, when Ryan asked her to come to the wedding, he tried his hardest to not make it sound serious. She was really not on any notice that Ryan was interested in a deeper relationship.

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so you think in real life she probably wasn't goofy about it? that ryan was making that part up in his mind?

www.dandollar.com

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[deleted]

I think this is a good point.

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Certainly at the beginning, she sees him as an escape/parenthesis ("think of me as you with a vagina"), but the film goes out of its way to portray her strengthening feelings toward him over time. This makes the revelation of her other life such a stomach punch to Ryan and the audience (comparable to the shock of being fired). Unlike Ryan, though(who appears to feel some empathy toward his subjects -- moreso as the film progresses), Alex is completely callous toward him.

It made for a great, O. Henry-esque twist, but a little unrealistic in my opinion. Alex would have to be a sociopath to display -- but not actually experience -- that depth of feeling.

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[deleted]

Imo seeing Alex as a sociopath is over the top.

The problem I think most have with understanding her starts with the obvious and general revulsion over the fact that she is a wife and mother playing a double game as a cheater. So our view of her starts with that, and from that point an assessment of who she is, what makee her tick, is at best complicated by things we don't know about her life, and for some at worst those things we don't know become a basis for a more general condemnation of her character.

As others have noted, the film reveals Alex only through what Ryan sees and thinks. The great revelation about her, that she has a husband and children, is then further complicated by being shown to Ryan, and us, in static terms. What I mean here is that we have no idea what Alex has been doing with or thinking about, or changing her thinking about, the life situation the encounter scene shows her to be in. We don't know to what extent the static condition shown is really one in transition. Is she totally settled in her dual life? Is she at all considering a change in it? Does she find Ryan appealing beyond the occasional sex romp?

Add in that the visit was a surprise, with no agreement on her part, and the obvious risk she would have been found out, and her disappointment, even anger, at Ryan for springing it on her is not surprising. The way she understood what was between her and him, he broke the rules. The way this factored into her attitude toward him on the phone is perhaps hard to measure exactly, but it is certainly part of what was going on.

Despite what else we may feel about Alex's cheating and her standing vis a vis her family, I don't think we are right in taking her attitude toward Ryan on the phone as so hard to understand.

As for the way she did not mirror Ryan's growing interest in her, and what some if not most here think she SHOULD have understood when he asked her to his sister's wedding, and how that all went, I think most are missing something. We need not conclude that she was socially inept or clueless to "miss" where he was coming from, and certainly need not, should not, conclude that she in fact did know and didn't care. Instead, I think it is some combination of other factors at work.

First of all, in encouraging Alex to go Ryan did so in a manner that made light of it, that purposely avoided confronting her with an intention on his part to view the trip as part of a new romantic involvement between them. I don't think even Ryan felt any such involvement was more than a potential one, if that, in any event before they went. Again, we see Alex from his perspective, and as others have noted this means we are talking about someone who for all his sexual experience is stunted in terms of experiencing loving relationships. As the weekend progresses, his sisters, for the most part out of Alex's ear and eye shot, challenge his prior way of existence. We see him feel the challenge and that it dawns on him it may have merit. At the very same time he is having a good time in what appears on the surface to be a romantic involvement with Alex, and he starts to like it.

But going back to the ambiguity that surrounded their agreement to go to the wedding (ambiguity at most), what if the circles were turned, and Ryan felt no interest in changing his involvement with Alex, but instead SHE did, and overtly did something to confront him. Would he not have been able to say, hey that is not what we are about? Of course he would feel he was able to say so.

As a result I think what was going on in Alex's head was some combination of thinking she had an understanding with Ryan that had not changed, and that she certainly had not agreed to change, merely because she agreed to go to the wedding, along with what would then amount to a kind of cognitive dissonance in not seeing or avoiding anything in his behavior that would go against that understanding. A possible take away despite all that is that she may well have noticed, after all, as the weekend progressed but wanted to think about it. But, he had not confronted her before they went their separate ways at the end of the weekend. Alex did not have to confront the need to say yes or no in terms of the question of a romantic relationship between them. Her failure to do so hardly makes her sociopathic of something of the sort.

After all, let's say at some point Alex did in fact notice that Ryan was acting in a (new) way that indicated he was becoming romantically interested in her. Given her family situation, would she not have wanted to think about that? Give it some time to figure out what to do next? To say to him? What about her family? Her husband?

In short I think those who broadly condemn her (beyond what I think all here do condemn her for) are overstating her if you will pathology, and they do so by in effect viewing her situation in static terms. There is nothing in the film to suggest that she is entirely comfortable with her dual life, and is resolved to keep it that way for the foreseeable future, that she has no qualms or doubts. There is nothing to show she is literally uncaring rather than miffed, even angry, about Ryan's interest in her (angry because he broke the rules). The film simply does not provide a basis for those types of condemnations of Alex.

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Alex's agreement to go to the wedding with Ryan did not mean that she understood that he wanted something more. Perhaps attending such an event together might have meaning to plenty of other people, but not to Alex (and initially, not for Ryan either).

When I was in college but still a teenager, I dated a man who had a lot of siblings, including a brother who was married. This brother and his wife had 4 kids between them.

One fine day we were visiting one of the sisters. There were other relatives there as well. I was shocked when the married brother walked in with another woman who was being very affectionate to him. What really surprised me was that everyone - both male and female - was OK with it! I just sat there and stared. I had been in this brother's house many times, had spent time with the wife and children & I just couldn't believe that he was walking around openly with another woman.

I wondered if this woman knew that he was married, or if she assumed that he wasn't since he had brought her over to spend time with his family.

My point is that Alex attending the wedding with him seemed really outrageous, but things like that do happen. Like another poster said, Alex felt that she and Ryan were continuing to play out their fantasy world. Her husband and kids were her real world.

THE RAP CRITIC
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huh? she never acted like that was obvious. what she did think was that they had an understanding of what their "relationship" was. it was something casual and fun. not serious. not serious enough to ever interfere with her "real" life.

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Hilarious, yet not surprising that most who identify as, or who are clearly women posting in this thread are cosigning on her scandalous behavior.

Stop trying to sugar coat it, she was a good for nothing hussy.

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I hated the reveal!!!!

Although the movie made it obvious from the start she was not emotionally involved in the relationship. The whole "wedding invitation" should've been a red flag to her that he was starting to want something abit more.

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^^This. She should've known or at least noticed how deeply he cared for her when he invited her to the wedding. She had to at least see that he had changed and had wanted more from their relationship. I agree, she was pretty damn cold on the phone right after.

"I am the ultimate badass, you do not wanna `*beep*` wit me!"- Hudson in Aliens.

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Maybe she should have seen that Ryan inviting her to his sisters wedding was the beginning of something more....but Ryan made it clear to her that it was not...and I don't believe that was HIS intention either, at least not at the start of the weekend.

It's not until Ryan begins to doubt his way of life, after he sees his sister and her fiance's relationship and he spends more time with Alex and begins to grow closer to her.

Should she have seen the signs, at the end of the weekend, that Ryan was maybe wanting more from the relationship? Maybe.
But is it out of the realms of possibility that she was blind to it, or so keen to keep the relationship as a casual sexual fling, that she subconsciously ignored what was right in front of her? I don't think so.

As for her attitude towards him on the phone after his unexpected visit to her home? It can be understood in a way. Like someone else above said, he had violated the unwritten rule of their casual relationship by appearing in her "real life" and obviously risked outing her as a cheat in front of her husband and kids, and also he had discovered her deception, so she transferred her anger on to him in a way.
Yes we all know that it was her fault, she never told him she was married with children and that she NEVER wanted to see him outside of when they were on business or in other parts of the country, but to her, he has just outed her as a liar and risked exposing her lies to her family, so she is angry, and directs that anger back at him, like it is HIS fault, which is a classic response.

The fact of the matter is, when their relationship started they were both in the same place, then he evolved and grew emotionally and she didn't, making their relationship no longer viable.

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