What did he say at the dinner table right before kirsten dunst spat her food at, and later realized her dog was dead? I couldn´t hear it?
"Wow there´s people here. There´s too many people here!..We need a new plague!"
- Dwight K Schrute
He said, "You would have made a good mother." So she got upset because he was the one who made her get the abortion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi_XLOBDo_Y RIP MJ from San Diego
wow, that´s harsh! and thank you, I rewined it twice but all I could here was something about "mother"! Thanks again!
"Wow there´s people here. There´s too many people here!..We need a new plague!"
- Dwight K Schrute
You are so welcome!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi_XLOBDo_Y RIP MJ from San Diego
I thought he said that to try and mend things. It was like admitting that it was wrong that he made her get an abortion.
Anyone else think this?
That was my first thought too, I didn't think he meant it to be cruel, I thought he was trying to either admit he might have made a mistake or to try and gloss things over with her. Maybe a combo.
J'entends son coeur qui bat. C'est comme du morse.
MMM
...which just goes to show how out of touch his character is. Given the circumstances of their relationship, it's insensitive in the extreme.
shareCorrect. By that time, he was so desensitized and insulated, that he had no clue about anyone else's feelings but his own. A true sociopath.
shareBasically e realized he was losing her because had she had the baby she would a) still be happy and innocent and b) he would have something more substantial to hold her to him. So you are right, a sociopath. It was all about him.
Maybe spoilerish
I thought he said that to try and mend things. It was like admitting that it was wrong that he made her get an abortion.
Anyone else think this?
Considering he killed her dog hours earlier and left the evidence of that for her to find, no, not at all. That was a final cruelty to her before he killed her.
She was showing all signs of leaving him, finally, and he knew he had lost her. So he killed her dog, made that very cruel crack, and then killed her.
I disagree. His father had just said to him "why couldn't you have just given her what she wanted?" His anger at the dog was a misplaced anger at what his dad had just asked him. He said to the dog "what are you looking at?" Then he attempted to appease his dad (as we always try to do for the one whose approval we never can seem to achieve), when he said that at the table. He killed her because they fought again over her finding the dog's bandana and confronting him about it. He was a loose canon and he snapped. In his eyes he couldn't please her either, therefore can't please dad, therefore "just get rid of it all".
He was a narcissistic psychopath who lost it.
Considering he killed her dog hours earlier......that was a final cruelty!
Ivan was HIS dog not hers - seen in his car in the first scene of the movie in case you weren't looking - so although she was obviously upset that David had killed him I don't see it as a 'final act of cruelty' just as a sign of his losing control.
I thought that at first. But after she got up and walked away, they showed him, and I thought I could detect a smug, sadistic little sneer. I was like 'damn!' Like he knew that twist of the knife would really get her. He was already planning to kill her to punish her for sending his journal out...he just wanted to be mean beforehand too.
Though I agree with what another thread said. His character seemed to change too drastically. At first, he seemed unhinged, dark secrets, mentally unstable. But then, it was like -- nope, he's just a sociopath. Maybe he always had that 'in' him and then just got on a roll...I don't know. I guess there was that cryptic hint earlier when he said the reason she was perfect is because she likes everything he does. So once she stopped that...
He said, "You would have made a good mother." So she got upset because he was the one who made her get the abortion.
"I don't care how much you love someone why would you do that to yourself?"
I remember watching a TV news report about a man who was convicted of raping his young daughter repeatedly, and regularly beat up the wife. The reporter asked the wife in the hallway, "Why would you stay with him?" She replied with a sheepish smile, "What can I do? I love him."
Happens all the time to one degree or another. You can't apply normal logic. Emotions tend to trump logic.
She was in love with someone who was raping his own young daughter? Not to mention, *her* daughter? How sick can people be???
Exactly. But goes to show you that people stay in sick situations for whatever reasons.
With regard to what you were saying about her not being independent--no, until they came back to NY and David totally surrendered to his father, she did what he wanted to do. But she did it because he was charismatic and strong, and she loved him. When she got sick of his BS and woke up to the fact of just how abusive he was, she struck out on her own, signed up for med school, looked into a divorce, and generally tried to find herself. As we saw, David did not take kindly to this independence, and, we would surmise, then did her in. following which he totally lost it and went from merely odd to completely bent.
But goes to show you that people stay in sick situations for whatever reasons.This is a really bad example though. People fall out of love for much smaller reasons than that. This woman is seriously disturbed, an unfit mother (putting it mildly), and an accessory to the most heinous crime imaginable.
That's certainly correct. I was appalled when I saw that, and it has stayed with me. It was maybe 20 years ago.
For sure not everyone who stays in a bad relationship (to put it mildly) is that sick, but it is a very extreme example of my point: people will stay in a troubled situation for a variety of reasons. Most often it is because it was someone they once loved and they can't admit what it has become or that they can't somehow cure the situation and bring back the happy days..
She got an abortion, yes. Saying "he made her get the abortion" suggests she was a puppet with no free will, and that is not the case. Katie Marks was a strong independent woman who went to medical school because that was what she wanted to do. The decision to have the abortion was her own.
There are no problems that cannot be solved with a can of brake clean and a lighter
Except that, as far as the film goes, you don't see her act on that independent nature until long after the abortion. Before that occurs, you see her placed under intense pressure to go forward with it and even with David's absence at the clinic, she goes ahead but there's a flimsy indicator there that it's either her motivation or David's (then) early attempt at exerting control over her. Based on David's comments earlier in the film when they were sitting on the balcony of the apartment, it's more likely she had bought into the doubt he had placed in her mind and that helped reinforce the decision to go forward with the abortion.
It's only later that she begins to distance herself from David and makes strides to live on her own terms, eventually coming to realize that she essentially can't from a monetary perspective if she wants to finalize a divorce thanks to legal wrangling leaving her penniless if she does. So she ends up chained to David, trying to better her situation as much as possible in what the film depicts as defiance of David's will.
Anyway, no - definitely not a puppet but to say she wasn't pressured into the abortion strongly despite all prior indication that she wanted a child is preposterous. I kind of wish the film left it more ambiguous than it actually does as far as that scene is concerned but it really doesn't (I understand why, I just don't agree with it).
Clearly, she was under intense pressure, but, to the extent that she had any choice in the matter, what was her option? To defy a very strong-willed husband, whom she also loved, and bring a child into the world that he has made very clear he does not want? She was still trying to make a go of the marriage at that point,and had she opted to have the child, it probably would have been the end of it. I agree with previous posters that,at that point in the film, she did not have the strength and independence she developed later, and which (presumably) got her killed.
sharewhat was her option? To defy a very strong-willed husband, whom she also loved, and bring a child into the world that he has made very clear he does not want?At that moment I actually thought (or was hoping) that she would leave David in order to have the child. But no, she wasn't independent or strong enough for that kind of a decision.
"she wasn't independent or strong enough for that kind of a decision. "
"At that moment I actually thought (or was hoping) that she would leave David in order to have the child. But no, she wasn't independent or strong enough for that kind of a decision."
Yes.
She was NOT a strong independent woman. She just followed along with whatever David wanted. You want to move to Vermont? Sure, let's move to Vermont and open a store. Move back to New York? Okay. Move to Vermont again? Sure thing. She didn't even know what she herself wanted.
And the abortion was NOT her choice, unless we were watching completely different movies or something.
Because she agreed with David in the past does not make her his slave. These were her decisions. Moving to Vermont - her decision. Returning to New York with David - her decision. They're all her decisions! As to the abortion, in the United States of America it is the woman's RIGHT to choose what to do with her own baby. In other countries, this decision may be made by the man, but in the United States (where this movie is set) the woman has the right to decide what to do with her own baby.
There are no problems that cannot be solved with a can of brake clean and a lighter
Please, you are being ridiculous.
You have absolutely no understanding of the dynamics of an abusive relationship. Either that or you're being wilfully ignorant.
shareIn real life, she was a frightened woman trapped with a sociopath in an abusive marriage. She was powerless in the relationship by that point. He Made her get the abortion. Many many more American women are forced, pressured, and coerced into abortions by their partners than most people realize. Abortion was supposed to be about freedom for a woman's body and right to choose, but in many relationships, it has become a way for men to control and abuse their wives, girlfriends, and lovers.
share