MovieChat Forums > The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug (2013) Discussion > Does anyone else have issue with a talki...

Does anyone else have issue with a talking Dragon with perfect diction?


That's weird. The dragon shouldn't be talking English with perfect diction, surly it would be like the dragons in GOT?

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Actually the Hobbit-book Smaug DID talk. So did the eagles.

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Yes, I realise they talk in the book, but it's still weird. Like where did the Dragon learn to speak English with perfection diction? It should be like GOT Dragons.

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Why should it? Support your argument.

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Like did Smaug go to Dragon English school?? In a classroom? He's suppose to be a wild animal living in nature, proficient in killing not proficient in English. Even Tarzan spoke broken English! And he's human.

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Sorry, you are debating the practical elements of a fantasy. Just as science fiction (well the written stuff anyway, films skew towards science fantasy) has a spectrum of hard to soft, so does fantasy. At the hard end lie things like Larry Niven's Magic stories in which magic functions in an explainable way utilizing a (still fanciful) tappable natural resource called Manna. GOT falls somewhere on the softer side of these stories, at least in part because they are aimed at a mass audience who neither cares about the "rules of magic" nor is willing to suspend disbelief for talking dragons--apparently White Walkers are something people are familiar with in the form of zombies. Farther along might be Harry Potter where magic creatures simply exist and the rules are obviously made up as the author proceeds. Lord of the Rings exists farther along where the rules are simply those of folklore, but with a single complexly worked out history. Smaug talks because he can and arguing the point simply means you prefer a different style of fantasy.

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What's so egregious is that Smaug talks so well, like not animalistic like or broken English, but perfect English diction and vocabulary. Where the F did Smaug learn to speak English so well? Dragon English school? Smaug is suppose to be a wild animal existing in nature, not attending English classes and being the top of the class.

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Smaug is supposed to be a supernatural being existing for thousands of years. SUPERNATURAL. If he speaks, he speaks any way he is intended to by the lore of this fantasy world. His knowledge may be innate. He may not have had to learn anything. We can not know and that is a part of fantasy when it is well away from the "hard" end of the scale.

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Actually if you read the Lord of the Rings and the appendixes you would know that Smaug doesn't spreak perfect English, he speak's perfect Westron, the common speeech of the west lands of Middle-earth during the Third Age.

And why shouldn't a dragon be able to speak perfect Westron, just like Hobbits, and Humans, and Elves, and Dwarves, and Ents do? Do you think that dragon's are not intelligent beings and thus people, merely because they have four legs, two wings, and tails?

There is some speculation that dragons were mutated by Morgoth out of preexisisting creatures, and that Morgoth put evil spirits in their bodies. Those evil spirits would be Ainur, supernatural beings of spirit who existed before the world was made.

In Christian theology angels are beings of spirit who can make physicial bodies out of matter if they wish. All angels, even the fallen ones or devils, are much higher beings than mere humans. And they are higher than humans despite the fact that some angels and devils have been depicted with bodies much less human looking than Smaug.

And since the Ainur were based on angels in Christian theology, a physical body controlled by an Aniur, which dragons are speculated to be, would be at least as much an intelligent being and a person as any human.

So don't be surprise that Smaug learned to speak perfect Westron, any more than you would be surprised by a Hobbit, or Human, or Elf, or dwarf, or Ent speaking perfect Westron.

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Talking dragons are not uncommon. Would you have felt better about it if he had spoken in ebonics?

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Well, obviously not ebonics. But maybe broken English, think Casear in the new Planet of the Apes.

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Yeah, and don't forget Mufasa from the Lion King. How could it be possible that a lion could speak so proper and eloquently? It blows my mind!!!

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Almost every dragon I've seen, read about or role played etc throughout my life could speak normally to humans. GOT took a different spin by giving them the personality of a pet eagles.

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GOT dragons took the correct route. Talking Dragons with perfect diction is like WTF?

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They're magic, highly intelligent and live thousands of years. If I suspend disbelief enough to believe in dragons, it's not too big a leap to believe they can mimic human language. As far as GOT I agree. Talking dragons would have given us even more characters to keep up with and would have seemed silly in the context of the show.

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Like Thingmaker said it's a Fantasy. That means there's no correct route. In this universe the rules of our world do not exist. In this universe Dragons could be born with all the ability to speak just because that's how their gods made them.

In the case of Middle Earth, Morgoth (That's the big bad guy from the 1st age who's a rebel God of some kind) Corrupted (That means made from some other animal already existing) Dragons to be used to fight for him against the Elves. From what I've seen Glaurung, the original wingless dragon died and others spouted out of him and then continued to breed(Asexually) other dragons. Some had wings, some didn't, some could breath fire, others couldn't.

What we do know is that Dragons could speak and not just Smaug.
"Many accounts of interaction between dragons and other beings makes mention of them speaking, using the Common Tongue."
Now, the question is how were they able to speak. Either A, they were born with the ability to speak just because that's how Morgoth made them, or B they were taught to speak by others. Remember Dragons live for thousands of years in this world. So it's not inconceivable that Morgoth taught his Dragons to speak and then they passed that ability down to their offspring. Also, keep in mind that Dragons could very well be far more intelligent than the people of this world. Why? Because that's how the writer created them.

Below is a link if you'd like to dive deeper.
https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Dragons

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Dragon privilege. Clearly the dragons from GOT weren’t as privileged as Smaug who revived years of educate from the finest instructors at Dragon institutions of higher education.

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First off, dragon intellect takes many forms in the fantasy world. I've seen dragons that were like animals, I've seen some that are like intelligent pets, some were telepathic, and I've seen some that were highly intelligent beings that were either at the same level, or were even smarter than humans. Some could speak multiple languages, or even had their own verbal language they spoke among themselves. It all depends on what the author wants in their work.

It wouldn't take much for a dragon eavesdropping on humans for a few years to learn their language, particularly if they are an intelligent creature. Unfortunately, in Smaug's case, being intelligent was a bad thing, because it made him even more dangerous than just some violent fantasy "animal." His intuition in particular made him terrifying, because it didn't take long for him to figure out why the dwarves were there, and why they'd sent a "burglar" in.

You couldn't just attack Smaug with brute force and expect to win. It took cunning and trickery instead to finally take him down. That, and he was arrogant and didn't consider a single scale missing on his chest to be a problem....until a black arrow was shot into the hole.

Also keep in mind, that Smaug spoke very good English in the book, as well as the movie.

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Thank you American girl for that. Now go eat hamburgers and Make America Great Again.

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Beats flying around, hoarding gold, and eating hapless humans. Some of them don't taste that good either. And don't get me started on having to breathe fire every time one gets indigestion. It can get pretty hazardous after a while.

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Lmao....choose whatever reason you want. Jesus christ...smh...πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

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So you question a dragon that talks profoundly when this is a world where we have..... talking trees.... a ring that talks..... a wizard that dies and is reborn.... trolls..... and eye that lives on top of a mountain that seeks things and talks to a ring wherever the ring is.... should I go on? Do you want some more examples? Think you have taken too many donkey tablets

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"Daaaaaahhhhh me love GOT. Everything should be same as GOT. Daaaaaaaaahhhhh." *drools*

Well spoken hyper intelligent dragons have been a 'thing' in mythology for thousands of years. Get over it.

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