There are rumors that in the theatrical release of the film, there was an after-credits scene where Esther's hand holding the knife comes back up out of the pond. Until recently, I've chosen not to believe the rumor because I figured that if it really was real, it would have ended up in the DVD/Blu-Ray as well. Can anyone actually confirm this scene is real and not a hoax? Accurate sources would be appreciated.
shareSeeveral have said there was a scene after credits in SOME theatres, though I haven't heard there was a knife. I think someone may have filmed Isabelle's hand as she simply reached out and put it in there for a kind of jump-scare.
shareIs it common for theatres to skip showing easter eggs such as this on the home media release? I wonder if there's a way to view it online; it would make me feel much better regarding Esther's fate.
Perhaps, it was removed from the DVD and many theatres because it didn't track well with test audience members?
I know the only reason they showed her getting kicked was because test audiences wanted her gone (the jerks). Don't worry about her fate; I always believe she made it somehow, there's the comfort of knowing it's fictional and that they COULD bring her back quite easily.
shareSo did the version with Esther coming back out of the lake exclude the kick-neckbreak scene? Also, you're a big Orphan fan just like me, do you believe there's credence to this rumor? (I trust your judgment.)
shareNo, it didn't exclude the kick-neck scene at all. And I fully believe the scene was there :)
shareThis makes me MAD for so many reasons. >:( They had no right to not put this scene in the DVD release; they should have at least put this as an extra for the Blu-Ray. Imo this is an unspeakable offense to the film's plot and character. I CANNOT believe that people wanted Esther dead as opposed to the countless sequels spawned off of Freddy, Jason, and the other clichéd slasher villains. When will Hollywood learn? Giving in to fan demand simply does NOT work. Ugh, and here I was mourning Esther's death for no reason. Btw, does anybody know where I can find this clip online? Or if it's even available?
shareI've never been able to find it. And why should you mourn her? In the theatre I thought, "They think she may have died? I won't have it." It's a film, Eric; that means that even if there was no sequel, they COULD bring her back for one with the snap of a finger, and someone could have pulled her out; so her "death", in the fashion her injury occured, could never be set in stone :) Fact is, there was a contract saying no sequel, and I think they made that scene purely as a leg pulling thrill; I don't even know if Isabelle knew they were filming her hand, because she said Esther was dead when asked; so either she agreed to give that standard answer, or she didn't even know; either way, it's purely unofficial.
Don't you see it's much better there's no sequel? It could have tanked, or even inadvertedly hurt the first one, and then there's the #1 reason: they'd probably kill her for certain in the sequel. In a way that would leave no room for doubt. She, and the Colemans, suffered enough.
Yeah, I know that having no sequel is probably the best choice; especially if you look at all the horrible ones for the aforementioned slasher films. It's just that if there isn't going to be a sequel, it would be more comforting to have an "official" reason that says Esther's still kicking, literally I mean. :D
shareMe too :) But I always pictured myself in the story, helping her. It's far more real to me than the idea that she wouldn't still be around :)
shareI don't even know if Isabelle knew they were filming her hand, because she said Esther was dead when asked; so either she agreed to give that standard answer, or she didn't even know; either way, it's purely unofficial.
She said this on Twitter.
shareI CANNOT believe that people wanted Esther dead
Do you even know her backstory, though? She was abused for most of her life and desperately wanted love with a man to validate her as a woman worthy of love. But if you wanted the innocent father dead, maybe that wouldn't alter your perception.
shareYep, I know the backstory. I didn't 'know' it the first time I watched the film, but it was pretty easy to guess as a viewer without it being spelled out. I read it after though, so the next times I watched it I knew.
(Incidentally, I know Esther wanted to lock the bathroom door so no one would see her adult body....but, I do question why alarm bells didn't go off in Kate's head as to why Esther was so set on the door being locked. The way she lies, she seemed terrified of people looking at her...that would definitely give me alarm bells that there might have been an incident in the past. I know it was a lie and wasn't how it happened, but the way she played it I would definitely be taking to her a shrink there and then).
It still didn't change my opinion. A terrorised deaf girl is standing right there on the ice at the end, and even then, in the water, Esther tries to manipulate rather than just ask for help, knife at the ready, to kill a kid. Yeah, I cheered on the Mum alright. She was an *adult* woman who wanted to kill a child. I think some people are kind of half fooled into still thinking it's child on child violence, even when they know the truth, because of how you've thought of her through the rest of the film as a child...but it's not...she's an adult woman who has been terrorising a child and now wants to knife her. She even took her hearing aid away to make her even more vulnerable.
And innocent father?! The man who took the side of a girl who was a virtual stranger over his wife of years....
...who had had an affair but was high and mighty enough to say *he* couldn't trust *her*....
...who let his kid disappear out of sight at a playground....
...who essentially picked a new girl over his wife....
...who never gave his wife the benefit of the doubt (as Kate points out) but constantly gives it to Esther....
...who assumes that his wife is drinking just because they found a bottle (and didn't find it odd that Esther magically a) found it when it was clearly well enough hidden for him not to and b) new it was significant enough to give to him...most kids wouldn't think twice about it, he should have been suspicious that she even knew that alcohol was a big deal at such a young age)...plenty of people in weakness buy alcohol but then don't drink it and throw it away. It's a well known pattern of behaviour. And actually, she'd even told her shrink that right at the start! She told her she wanted to drink, but didn't. He was adamant his wife was lying to him....for no real reason other than 'he' couldn't 'trust' her (rich from an adulterer, when Kate was big enough to trust him enough when he was accused of hitting on another woman by Esther)....
...he doesn't think it's odd that the treehouse was set on fire by his son who he's known and loved since birth and shown no previous violent behaviour, but doesn't possibly think it could be this new girl, who comes from a history of a house being set on fire which at this point he knows (and that it was deliberate and the culprit was never found), especially when it's put together with all the other strange stuff that's been happening *only once she arrived*.....
...and then, to top it off, when she dresses up and comes on to him, he just sends her to her room and says he can't cope anymore instead of 'oh ****, maybe my wife was right and this girl is odd and dangerous and responsible for even some of what's happened recently, let's get her out of the house and protect both her and my youngest girl by getting her into social care where she can get treatment!'......
....all of this equals useless man. And horror film rules state useless men get killed. Tis the rules, there's no way around it. Should have listened to his wife, shouldn't he.
That's what mentally unstable people do, Esther was terrified of rejection and being discovered. And yeah, the Dad was innocent, as in never deliberately hurt anyone and certainly didn't want to ruin someone's life. If you want him dead as a fictional character, whatever, but really getting into the story I can't imagine not empathizing with Esther or not wanting the family to keep their father.
shareI empathised with her to a point...but after that, I was cheering the mother on. Yes, there are damaged people that do bad things...but there are also plenty of damaged people who don't. And messing with a guy is one thing....wanting to stab a deaf child to death and burn a teenage boy alive is quite another.
It's also clear that even the film makers wanted the audience to feel the same way as Kate too, to grit her teeth and take responsibility for protecting her family because Esther was not going to stop unless she was killed. Because they construct that entire end sequence to influence the audience to see she's monstrous.
The horrible animal-like disgusting teeth, the damaged skin, the wild way she moves and shrieks, the soft growling she starts doing from nowhere, the way that even in the water she's manipulating her (knowing max nearly drowned in that very water and saying 'don't let me die mommy' rather than just asking for help)....they're dehumanising her. It's a clear sign that the film is trying to persuade you that she needs to be killed too because she's just too far gone for reason or safe human interaction...she's more monster/evil than human now.
~ I hardly looked at his face. His knees were what I wished to see. ~
She wanted to stab Kate, not Max, whom she saw as the end and obstacle to her life and dreams (Kate that is), and she said the manipulating thing because she didn't think Kate would help her otherwise and the audience would appreciate a more chilling line like that than a plead that would make her sympathetic. Funny thing is, she underestimated Kate's humanity, which the shooting script softened way up from the original; in the latter, she knew her terrible past but killed her without hesitation; in the film, she never tries to kill her, only ward her off as she saves Max; even the kick was just to get her to let go. I don't think Esther was totally evil, as that involves worse kinds of abuse to me and Esther only tried to kill when she thought she had to. Nor do I see them as trying to dehumanize her; if anything, they showed her vulnerable side more than once and never intended to kill her after Isabelle took the role; the original ending had her giving in to her delusion of childhood again and calmly going to the police; they only added the violent end with the kick after someone (or two) in test audiences said they basically had to kill her. Even then, some have debated her death and preferred she live.
shareOh trust me, I'm definitely one of those people who think that people can see what makes them happy in a film......there are so many films I like to think have a little add on to make them end in a way I'd prefer! LOL But know that other people don't agree with my view on it at all, (And TV shows actually...I'm still traumatised over the pointless death of Ianto in Torchwood.....in my head, he was magically brought back....somehow...if Joss Whedon can do it, why not! LOL)
And you're right, they definitely didn't dehumanise her through the entire film, there are plenty of moments where they actually lead you down a path of empathising with her....especially as, if you're successfully tricked, you think she's a child and you're thinking 'wow, what's happened to the poor little thing to make her like this!'.
I meant more specifically in the end sequence, from where she starts undressing and you see her real adult appearance, it seems ( to me at least) they're transforming her into a much darker and monstrous version, she even gives these little growls, and especially those teeth - there was no reason for her to have such horrible real teeth, not her lovely children teeth of course because she's older, but it was a deliberate decision to make them so icky (it actually turned my stomach when she pulled the fake ones out to reveal them).
And although I was cheering on the Mum, the one thing I wasn't keen on was her last line 'I'm not your *** mommy', but mostly because that's kind of lifted from the Ring.
~ I hardly looked at his face. His knees were what I wished to see. ~
Heh, I definitely add on to the Orphan story in my mind (and a few Final Destination ones, but that's a different matter).
"from where she starts undressing and you see her real adult appearance, it seems (to me at least) they're transforming her into a much darker and monstrous version"
Oh definitely, they had to transform her into a very darkened adult; I just didn't stop entirely feeling for her; she was so small, and clearly wounded inside. Then when I read about her past online, my heart broke. Some, though, weirdly seem to only be capable of feeling for her or the family, even hating whichever they don't sympathize with, and I wanted to comfort and protect every hurting character, adults and kids.
"the soft growling she starts doing from nowhere"
I actually didn't remember that specifically, but I'm guessing you mean the angry sounds she made when ransacking her room (unless there was a softer sound I don't recall). As for her teeth, there are some theories that she didn't get proper care for them in the past because she was often in disguise or hiding, had a hard lifestyle that may have involved drugs, they wouldn't do detailed work on her teeth in the asylum bc she was so violent and would probably bite or it was primitive, Europe isn't well known for dental perfection, etc.
I noted "The Ring" line automatically and even said it to my friend, though I remember my voice being lost in the noise.
It kind of shows that the film and character has to be pretty brilliant to inspire so much debate and talk about it!
~ I hardly looked at his face. His knees were what I wished to see. ~
Exactly, and you should have seen this board when it first came out; the youtube comments about different films and scenes had so many reactions too, everyone loving Max and generally sympathizing with the family but also feeling for Esther. My favorite is pairing scenes of Esther and her issues with the Pink song "Please don't leave Me."
shareYeah, but Isabelle's all grown up now. She looks different. Esther never grows up. It's part of her MO. We COULD have a sequel but no way on Earth would it be as good as this because we couldn't get Isabelle back to play Esther. Her performance was what made this one of the best horror movies of the past few years. I wouldn't trust it to another actress.
shareI know this isn't what you were looking for, and you've probably already seen it...
But on youtube you can see the alternate ending.
I wonder if the rumour about an extra post credit scene came from the flash up at the very end of the credits? Where the title 'orphan' is on the screen and then it flashes to the glowing paint over the word that looks like a hand holding a knife?
~ I hardly looked at his face. His knees were what I wished to see. ~
Wow, I never saw that! The hand, I mean. Hey, that makes me happy and explains a lot.
sharethere was never an after credits scene.
share[deleted]
I saw it in theaters in NYC back in '09. It was 5 years ago so I don't remember it very well, but there is an alternate ending scene where after the lake incident, Esther somehow gets back to the house, gets dressed in one of her dresses and makeup, and stands at the top of the stairs as the cops arrive, at which point she gives a courtsey and says "Hello, my name is Esther." Then the credits roll.
Also, does the Blu Ray show John regaining consciousness a few miutes after Esther stabs him, implying that he survived? That was in the theatrical version also.
Looks like there may be two different alt endings discussed here.
share