MovieChat Forums > The Limits of Control (2009) Discussion > 2 or 3 things to know from Jarmusch

2 or 3 things to know from Jarmusch

posted 14 years ago by nitznitch
5 replies | jump to latest

In the whole world the only perspicuous review of The Limits of Control was by D K Holm in The Prague Post. Every reviewer did understand the repetitions, for this film's purposes, of the two cups of coffee and the exchange of matchboxes. But no reviewer saw that SUBTITLEING of "foreign" languages was being made fun of. The Spanish spoken words from the very start are given an English translation in the subtitles and then immediately translated in the same words by the actor. Also, every person who sits down with the lead actor in the cafe has as his or her first question "You don't speak Spanish?" He doesn't, tho Spanish is hardly a foreign language in America (in Cormac McCarthy novels like All The Pretty Horses, the Spanish is never translated).

[–] TemporaryOne-1 14 years ago

I've mentioned the subtitle mockery on this board in 2009, 2010, and 2011.

Viewers must have those subtitles. No subtitles, no understanding. Nobody speaking in a language I understand, so film is meaningless and a waste of my time. I can't and won't understand what I'm looking at unless somebody tells me in my language what it means. It's unintelligible so I'm offended. Spanish guy speaks English? British girl speaks Italian? French guy understands English? Well I'm American and me only speak American! Give me those subtitles or your film is waste of time and you lose my business.

Seriously,

Is translating the dialogue into something one "understands" the one and only way to experience the film? Is the dialogue the sum total of the film? Are there not many ways to "translate" the meaning of the words?

The vocal inflections? The facial expressions? The body language? The misé en scene? The spatial relations of the set elements? The editing? The natural sounds? The musical soundtrack? The overall framing of each shot?

Have the words, whether or not in their original form or translated/decoded/analysed, really captured the imagination and inner thoughts of the director?

Shouldn't cinema take viewers beyond the dialogue? Shouldn't viewers intuit meanings beyond the dialogue? Or should everything be spelled out for viewers?

[–] nitznitch 14 years ago

Many apologies for my missing your previous posts TemporaryOne. Your humorous description of subtitles and your serious questioning of why exact dialogue would be necessary anyway, are so perfect they are beyond requiring any additions by me. Except perhaps that your sentences are excellently "worded"!

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] Revolutionow 14 years ago

Shouldn't cinema take viewers beyond the dialogue? Shouldn't viewers intuit meanings beyond the dialogue? Or should everything be spelled out for viewers?

This idea is especially apt when applied to the films of Claire Denis, a director I know that you're familiar with. Not that you need to be told, but her films almost never reveal the "plot" through expository dialogue. Rather the feelings and attitudes of the characters and the flow of the narrative is almost always revealed through the things that you mention further up, e.g. vocal inflections, facial expressions, body language, etc. This for me makes her cinema challenging, but all the more rewarding for the effort.

ce n'est pas une image juste, c'est juste une image

[–] TemporaryOne-1 14 years ago

Claire Denis, absolutely her films are true cinematographic works of art, and to understand and appreciate what's she's created, and to appreciate The Limits Of Control, viewers cannot be passive contemplators, but active participants in the creation of the cinematic world reelvealed (reels-revealed in front of them).

Especially with Denis, things are intentionally left said, things are concealed, simply truths are hidden, her films are structured to be sensorial and intuitive, and viewers must submit not only to Denis' senses and intuition as revealed onscreen, but to their own senses and intuition, it's the only way to get inside her films, and once inside, your own senses and intuition take flight. Surrender, and even if you walk away without having unkennelled the occulted meaning, you will walk away feeling as though the film inhabited every part of your body, you'll feel the film whenever you think about it.