Delta or SEAL
Which unit recievies harder training in any and every aspect? Which are more badass (opinions)? When are each used and what is their special skill or ability that makes them a SF?
shareThat info. is classified, son. lol.
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MovieChat Forums > Lone Survivor (2014) Discussion > Delta or SEAL
Please don't ask these questions. It's just egregious to try compare different type of Special Forces, they've all got their niche or what type of missions they conduct. It's not like paintball where you have games like "capture the flag" or cover the "President/VIP" aka Close Proximity Protection to tell whose the "best".
Most will be trained in CQB, have marksmanship out to a certain range (depending on the Unit's prerequisite), helo assault and fast roping, airborne insertion either HALO or HAHO, more operators trained to a higher level of a battlefield Medic etc etc. I've made my point.
If you're not willing to give up everything, you've already lost
I have appreciated reading your highly appropriate reply, bubblenator. Nice one!
Made your point alright - trust it will not be lost on him.
The kid still doesn't get it! Look at the question he asked on the Black Hawk Down message board, He clearly missed school between the ages of 5 and 12 as he can't spell and or use correct grammar!
If you're not willing to give up everything, you've already lost
FFS! (I took a peek at the said question).
Notice he changed his sign-in name?
Better not mention Hueys, lol! (That will really get him in a tailspin!)
Ironically I'm not sure if you know this but it was only at the last minute did the US Department of Defence approved and deliver the Blackhawks and Little Birds to Morocco where it was being filmed. They actually had Hueys painted black on stand by if they couldn't get the UH-60s. That would have been great a movie goof called Black Hawk Down with no Blackhawks!
If you're not willing to give up everything, you've already lost
Interesting nugget of info.,bubblenator.
Or, as Sir Michael Caine once said, "not a lot of people know that"!
I worked out in 'Nam at the start of the 90's for over a year, based in the south. Visited Cu Chi twice and came across an abandoned Huey in the middle of nowhere, but ringed by a rickety fence, which was easy to step over. The electrics had long since been ripped out, but took a few photographs, of course. I sat at the controls, as the seat was in fair condition given the years it had been left at the edge of the Cu Chi forests, even held the much-used old control-stick, or more correctly, cyclic stick. I often wondered out there, in fact still do, what happened to the last young crews when the US left, hurriedly, at the end of the war in '73? Whatever happened, I still pray the guys made it home.
The tunnels the NVA had built were mind-blowing, as I was down them before they were lit, and widened for modern tourists. Even my local guide told me the smallest guys in the US units were sent in first, booby traps frequently positioned, and the ruthless 'punji sticks' very strategically placed. As I am not a tall guy, my respect for these US young guys grew immeasurably after seeing what was there. True grit and no mistake.
No probs mate.
I worked out in 'Nam at the start of the 90's for over a year, based in the south. Visited Cu Chi twice and came across an abandoned Huey in the middle of nowhere, but ringed by a rickety fence, which was easy to step over. The electrics had long since been ripped out, but took a few photographs, of course.
So what were you doing in Vietnam in the early 90s if that's not too much of a personal question? Was there still a bit of hostility back then still stemming from the War?
Can you believe that over 16,000 Bell UH-1 Iroquois' were built during their 30 year production run of 1956–1986. If you look at this page below it will show that nearly every country in the free or "freeish" world except for countries like the former Soviet Socialist Respuclbics still under a strong cultural influence from Russia have used the Huey at some stage in their military.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bell_UH-1_Iroquois_operators
That's way they are called a UH (Utility Helicopter) as this bird has so many applications even in this day and age with both Law Enforcement and Civilians are now using these helos.
Lastly as we've been discussing the US Department of Defence sent TWO C-5 Galaxy's full of Blackhawks and Little Birds so have you seen a C-5 Galaxy in person (I would love to see of big they are?)
Another bit of information is that the C-5 stopped production back in 1989 but I saw a documentary Might Planes and it says how they are taken these massive cargo lifters basically ripped out the the whole avionics and wiring and brought in all new monitors, gauges, engines, pylons and auxiliary power units, upgrades to aircraft skin and frame, landing gear, cockpit and pressurization systems etc etc do be now named the C-5M Galaxy or the C-5M Super Galaxy.
I'd love to see how big they are, our RAAF biggest aircraft is the C-17 Globemaster III which is quite a bit smaller and carries less payload yet they both have roughly the same same range.
PS It took even more negotiations with an understanding and agreement between the US DoD and State Dept and the Morocco Government as technically there were US troops on the ground (playing extras and piloting the helos) and US military hardware such as the helos. Luckily it worked out well for everybody and we got a great movie IMO.
The tunnels the NVA had built were mind-blowing, as I was down them before they were lit, and widened for modern tourists. Even my local guide told me the smallest guys in the US units were sent in first, booby traps frequently positioned, and the ruthless 'punji sticks' very strategically placed. As I am not a tall guy, my respect for these US young guys grew immeasurably after seeing what was there. True grit and no mistake.
I would so love to visit these one day and it's it's so close relatively to where I live, I've heard they are so intricate however the the NVA and VC were sh.t scared about US soldiers/Marines shooting flame throwers down their rabbit burrows, one way to flush the little buggers out of their holes I guess.
If you're not willing to give up everything, you've already lost share
A long (and good)reply.
As this is now more about 'Nam and Hueys, suggest I pm you, if that's ok? Other posters will not be so interested. Leave it to you.
Ironically I'm not sure if you know this but it was only at the last minute did the US Department of Defence approved and deliver the Blackhawks and Little Birds to Morocco where it was being filmed. They actually had Hueys painted black on stand by if they couldn't get the UH-60s. That would have been great a movie goof called Black Hawk Down with no Blackhawks!
Actually Huey's digitally altered to appear as UH-60's was the fall back plan .. share
Actually Huey's digitally altered to appear as UH-60's was the fall back plan ..
That CGI would have cost a fortune with the budget already about $92,000,000 however once the US DoD was happy with the script and that it would do the veteran soldiers justice THEN the DoD helped out.
I don't know what the Producers were going to do to replicate several Little Bird AH-6s!
As listed below the US DoD provided 4 Blacks Hawks, 4 Little Birds and over 100 real Rangers and 160th SOAR pilots (some of which were in the actual Battle of Mog and used for fast roping scenes among other things) on two C-5s. However this was after exhaustive negotiations between the US State Department, DoD and even the Moroccan King Mohammed VI:
Of all the Herculean tasks facing Jerry Bruckheimer, Ridley Scott, Mike Stenson, Chad Oman, Branko Lustig and the other commanders of Black Hawk Down, none were so great as the extraordinarily sensitive negotiations between the production, the Moroccan government and the U. S. State Department and Department of Defense to allow approximately 100 U. S. Rangers, four Black Hawks, four Little Birds and their pilots from the 160th SOAR-and all of the backup military personnel accompanying them-to fly across the Atlantic and help the production properly recreate the first several minutes and other key moments of the mission with utmost verisimilitude.
This was no small matter. Even before recent events, the notion of bringing armed forces and materiel of the United States to a sovereign North African kingdom with a Muslim population-however friendly relations might be between the countries- was far-reaching, to say the least.
"There were so many issues, such as security," Bruckheimer continues. "Who would protect the helicopters and the men? Where were they going to be quartered? How many days of filming would they be required to participate in? All of these details had to be minutely worked out in advance, and even though we have a great relationship with the government, this was a much bigger operation than anything we had attempted before, even on Top Gun (1986) and Pearl Harbor. We were talking about actual troop deployment. "
We pushed back the helicopter work until we finally got the deployment on its way about five weeks into photography, about 48 hours before we would have had to switch to Hueys.
If you are not willing to give up everything, you have already lost share
I asked the same question on the other board to get as many info as possible about the topic I'm curious about, what so bad about that? English is not my native language, of course I'm going to have grammar mistakes. Lets see you writing and speaking in any other language than English. And stop stalking my posts, fuc*ing idiot.
shareWell, now that Bubblenator has given you the suggestion of googling the helo types, you will now have the info. you wanted, saving this board from your inane questions, kid.
sharewell, im just speaking for myself, but i for one, do not know much on the SEALS/Delta similarities/differences thing, so just let us in on their respective roles, ect.. what are they suited for, when should they be used(like what kind of situations, ect), what types of.. training/weapons? are they best utilized with??
alright, last question, prob a bit of a dumb one, as all SF seem to be really highly trained.. light infantry? (if that term is still relevant in today's military world..) but, just let military ignorant people in on the details, ect..
Delta or SEAL? There is no real answer to that as that is highly subjective. None is really more badass than the others but I will give you some info.
1st Special Forces Operational Detatchment-Delta aka Delta Force aka Combat Applications Group-Delta Force is the US Army's component of JSOC(Joint Special Operations Command). JSOC is in charge of special missions that no other military units can do. Delta Force specializes in counter terrorism, counter intelligence, direct action, hostage rescue, protection detail. . These are the primary tasks, though they can do other things. Though what they do is considered to be highly classified. Delta Force is loosely based on the British SAS. They recruit mostly from the US Army Special Forces(Green Berets) and the 75th Ranger Regiment(US Army Rangers). The training includes an intensive selections process. They select you to join. There's no recruiting stations like Special Forces and rangers have. The selections process process includes pt, ruck marches, an unknown timed 40 mile ruck march, psychological testing and a commanders board. Unlike Basic Training, it's very individualized. They don't yell at you or break you down. They like to see what you know and they like to see your individual skills and see how you do as an individual. Usually about 10/250 make it to become a Delta Operatior. The training has OTC or Operators Training Course. It is 6 months long. It includes: Breaching,demolition, Car Hijacking, Marksmanship, Close Quarters Battle, Hostage Rescue, Offensive/Defensive Driving Tradecraft and Espionage.
Navy SEALS-US Navy SEALS are apart of the Naval Special Warfare Command. It stands for Sea Air And Land. There are also the maritime component of USSOCOM(United States Special Operations Command). They're primary tasks are Direct Action, Special Recon, Hydrographic Recon, Counter terrorism and Unconventional Warfare. The Selections process is BUD/S(Basic Underwater Demoliton School/SEALs). Which is a six month long course. The dropout rate for this is over 90 percent. Afterwards they go through SEAL Qualification Training. here they go through, Montain Warfare, Land Navigation, HALO/HAHO Jump School, Sniper Training, Close Quarters Battle etc. It usually takes about 2 years to train a Navy SEAL. The navy SEALs also have a counter terrorist part known as Naval Special Warfare Debgru aka SEAL Team Six. They are the maritime component of JSOC and thus handle special maritime missions for JSOC including counter terrorism, hostage rescue. They recruit from Navy SEALS. The attrition rate fro selections is about the same as Delta Force.
Delta Force and SEAL Team Six ted to go on Hunt/capture/Kill Missions and train together and they can be used directly under NAC(Nationa Authority command. The Nation Authority Command includes the President and his White House Staff.
billyiii, you sing like a canary!
shareHow do I sound like a canary??? lol.
You come across as talking carelessly - had you lived during a major war, that costs lives. Not on here of course, but if you are young and guess you are, try to learn to be more circumspect.
shareThere's no information that I've given that would go against any sort of security protocol. Well non that I can think of. If I have then I apologize. I apologize if I have offended you in any sort of way. I'm just helping the OP out.
shareApologies certainly not required, billyiii. You are free to voice your opinions.
All I suggested was perhaps you should be more circumspect on the Net, and especially on forums, and those involving detailed military info.
I was a bit blunt with you, but am too well aware these days, what can be picked up from Net discussions, albeit the info. given is done so in all innocence.
I respect that. Though this isn't like an opsec where some idiot posts some sort of missions detail on Facebook or something. I would never do such a thing. But I understand and respect where you're coming from. Next time I will have more situational awareness.
shareThanks but still speak your mind, billyiii.
Far be it for me to restrict free speech but on matters military detail, think twice before posting mate, that's all! (My father was in the Forces,[Royal Artillery] proudly so, and I am very much a British patriot, and very pro-American Military - not many of us around).
To quote Marky Mark, "we're solid"!!
To be quite honest nothing he said is sensitive or not widely known so there is no need for him to be more discreet. In fact most of what he has said is the public line which is very general to begin with and not at all compromising of said units.
You're taking a dump and they call GQ do you pinch it off or finish your business?
Yep, everything he said is pretty much publicly available information.
Life is never fair, and perhaps it is a good thing for most of us that it is not.
Your question is quite childish and real guys would probably roll their eyes reading your op, but such subject always draws curiosity, my inclusive. Business Insider made an excellent article and here are two extracts -
Though it was the SEALs who performed that raid in Abbottabad, it's worth noting there are quite a few more SpecOps units in the U.S. than just SEALs — Green Berets and Marine Snipers, etc.
Army Green Berets are among the most elite groups in the world, and provide a pipeline to higher units, like the Army's "Delta" CAG, and the CIA SAD.
They have about as much street-cred as numbered SEALs and Force Recon, depending on who's doing the talking.
Notably, Green Berets have some of the toughest initial training in the entire military (at the risk of drawing the ire of SEALs and Marine Recon). Their initial test lasts an incredible 24 days, and that's just to see if you can attend the Green Beret qualification course.
The initial test:
Days 1 — 3: Physical fitness tests, language training, rucksack marches, basic first aid.
Days 4 — 19: Map reading, and land navigation over various terrains. weeks Basic
Days 20 — 22: Long distance trek, long distance land navigation.
Days 23 — 24: Outprocessing and official selection boards.
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Army 'Combined Applications Group' are the uncontested number one heavy-weight champ. The operators of operators, crème de la crème — even the SEALs who killed bin Laden wish they were a part of this crew.
Combined Applications Group is their old name, some call them Delta, but that was never an official name either. These guys are the absolute tip of the spear — Matt Bissonnette, one of the SEALs on the bin Laden raid, mentioned them in his book "No Easy Day" as if they were gods.
They are also the only group of special operators outside of SEAL Team 6 (ST6) where direct close contact with the enemy is a guarantee upon acceptance, regardless of whether America is officially at war or not.
They recruit from the nation's highest special operations units, only twice a year, to include ST6.
These are just a couple initial tests they have to pass:
A timed 18-mile 'ruck-march' at night in which the candidate must carry 35 pounds in their rucksack.
A timed 40 mile route while carrying a 45 pound ruck sack over rough, steep terrain.
Then they have a rigorous battery of psychological tests. If, after those tests, they're found to qualify, they attend a six-month training course.
If they pass the course, they cease to exist. It's said they work hand-in-hand with the nation's highest paramilitary and intelligence agencies.
Read more:
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-elite-special-forces-in-the-us-2013-2?op=1#ixzz3BEhc3LQ9
Childish? Understatement of the decade! (Rolls eyes).
But, you too have been gullible to answer this youngster.
Mea culpa, sorry for deficiency. I referenced "childish" exclusively on question - "Which are more badass" - as this associates on - "who has the bigger". Such "classification" isn't serious as every SF branch fulfills certain specialty, which supplements others. The rest of his question was "legitimately" OK and deserved reliable answer, comparable with yours.
PS - Am I forgiven?
I guess you're forgiven.
Can't have enemies of the West seeing disunity! :)
who are you? you front like everything posted on a board about an SF related movie is somehow super top secret national security intelligence.. I highly doubt the enemies of NATO go; "Hey guys, we're severely lacking in vital intelligence on our enemies.. Hey, I got an idea, let's look at the imdb message boards on western military movies, so we can shore up our intelligence gaps! Yeah, (insert Russian/Middle Eastern/North Korean name here)! Great idea!!"
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?
Yeah, and everything that guy posted, that you said was somehow "sensitive information" was literally just lifted from that business insider article.. Idk, if you are a troll or just honestly believe what you post..
who are you? you front like everything posted on a board about an SF related movie is somehow super top secret national security intelligence.. I highly doubt the enemies of NATO go; "Hey guys, we're severely lacking in vital intelligence on our enemies.. Hey, I got an idea, let's look at the imdb message boards on western military movies, so we can shore up our intelligence gaps! Yeah, (insert Russian/Middle Eastern/North Korean name here)! Great idea!!"
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?
Yeah, and everything that guy posted, that you said was somehow "sensitive information" was literally just lifted from that business insider article.. Idk, if you are a troll or just honestly believe what you post..
Lmao! I was just about to post the same exact thing. That guy makes it seem like the guy was posting nuclear launch codes on IMDB. Nothing I read screamed OPSEC and everything else screamed well publicized information lol. This guy!! share
based on the fact that you refer to seals as an SF means you know jack *beep* SF or special forces is not a general term for specially trained unites special forces is a term used to describes solely the united states army special forces commonly known as Green Beret all other groups are called special operations forces
but one thing i must say is that no group in the entire united states military trains as hard as the seals this is an irrefutable fact. they have also the longest training of any military force, all operatives must be in the military for 2 years before they are ever even allowed to go to seal training navy seal HELL weak is commonly known as the toughest week in any military training EVER. they also train for between 2 and 3 years and have continued training until they retire. they also spend more time on actual training with various Guns, and rifles, and what not than any other SOF the seals also have a higher standard for Close quarters combat
There is a lot that is ludicrous with your post.
To start CAG is Combat Applications Group but, its not even called that anymore. The Army wide and military wide accepted term regardless is 'Delta'. Delta was actually an official name back in the day. Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta was their cover originally under Special Forces Command, to fall in line with SFC's already existing organization of ODA, ODB and ODC.
Posting selection or recruiting criteria for Delta is no bueno, simply because any published info is always years if not a decade old, and heavily redacted or modified anyway.
To say "Army 'Combined Applications Group' are the uncontested number one heavy-weight champ. The operators of operators, crème de la crème — even the SEALs who killed bin Laden wish they were a part of this crew." is just plain gibberish. Sorry it is. I have read Bissonette's book and I did not see the exhibition of God Worship. If you look at the context of what he wrote, Delta needed help manning Task Forces. The organization of JSOC which includes Delta and DEVGRU is a very flexible, unique and joint venture. Many JSOTFs include both units intermingling.
A timed 18-mile 'ruck-march' at night in which the candidate must carry 35 pounds in their rucksack.
A timed 40 mile route while carrying a 45 pound ruck sack over rough, steep terrain.
Gee I hope thats not legit because Rangers do far worse, so do the SAS. Hell I did Volcanoes National Park, 11 miles up 11 miles down with a 60 pound Ruck. Again, posting this kind of thing is little more than fantasy.
[quote[If they pass the course, they cease to exist.[/quote]
Funny how so many of them write books or end up in public office, yet they cease to exist?
You're taking a dump and they call GQ do you pinch it off or finish your business? share
I've been cautious in my post where I emphasized that all written is taken from Business Insider. I hope you are that Military man that I asked for in another post as necessity to clear certain "knows" and unknowns. If not, you obviously have sound knowledge on those subjects and I am obliged for better education. If you can spare some time I am curious what would be your review of whole article from this link - http://www.businessinsider.com/most-elite-special-forces-in-the-us-2013-2?op=1#ixzz3BEhc3LQ9
shareApologies I see now. Looking at the article, I won't be reading business insider at all going forward. It is a very poorly done article. Many items are inaccurate, almost to an atrocious level. One example I will point out: Marine FAST Cos. The author of the article states they are 'leg infantry'. Ive done a lot of work with FAST Cos. They are not infantry Marines in the slightest. They are Marine Security Forces 8152s. They are not very elite in the sense of it, they are more of a SWAT type unit, that guards nuclear elements/weapons. Overseas FAST DETs act as rapid reaction, mostly to support diplomatic activities. The breakdown of Marine contributions are amateur and not based in fact. Funny how they don't mention the Marines only direct SOF units, the MSOBs.
You're taking a dump and they call GQ do you pinch it off or finish your business?
[deleted]
I don't know about anything more elite than "Legal Admin" or "Supply." Trust me braw. These guys are the grit of the grit. Selection is very classified, and only 1% actually make it through. There's papers that must be signed and boxes that have to be moved etc.
Have you ever heard of Osamas transgender security team getting taken out? Yeah, that's what I thought. They're that black ops that you've never even heard of such heroic events. They work so deep within the shadows, that they don't even know their own identities.
You think you've got what it takes?
Quick answer: Nope
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Which unit recievies harder training in any and every aspect? Which are more badass (opinions)? When are each used and what is their special skill or ability that makes them a SF?
Someone's been playing too much Call of Duty.
"Toto, I've [got] a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore." share