A little woke for my taste. - Clickbait (2021) Discussion

[–] Tricklebrook (314) 3 years ago

.....the hero police officer was Muslim of a non child bearing capability

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The character had a son.

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[–] edge (126) 3 years ago

Some people these days do not want the use of pronouns that denote gender. This stance leads to clumsy and convoluted phrases to replace simple pronouns that denote a gender.

https://zfacts.com/2021/04/can-men-become-women/

In their striving for correctness, these snowflakes are getting silly. Do not get me wrong, I believe in rights for all.

Stay Gold
Edge

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[–] Kowalski (76258) 3 years ago

RIDICULOUS.

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[–] Allison44 (602) 3 years ago

So racially diverse is automatically woke? If not that, you're reading way too much into this.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 3 years ago

Hollywood or equivalent + Racially diverse + Whites are evil/stupid + Non-whites are good/victims => Yeah, it's Woke

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[–] Allison44 (602) 3 years ago

Wasn't talking to you psycho.

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[–] kellmandy (65) 3 years ago

So you're saying that the show was full of.....people? Heroes and Villains, Gay and Straight, Clever people, Stupid People. When I leave for work in the morning, I wave to my neighbour who is Asian. When I grab my morning coffee I often get served by a non Anglo Saxon person and my favourite workmate just happens to be gay. Holding a mirror up to real life isn't 'woke'. Only casting white, straight people is more unrealistic than just including everybody we see in our real lives everyday.

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[–] edge (126) 3 years ago

It is not the diverse cast that is the problem. I live in a diverse world and have a diverse family. It is the obvious stereotyping with an attached agenda that is vexing. You say you have coffee in the morning. Are you awake? Do you smell the coffee?
I liked the show.

Stay Gold
Edge

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[–] BeaSouth (3350) 3 years ago

You are very clever edge. And I admire your measured responses to hostile strawman attacks

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[–] Allison44 (602) 3 years ago

What a sad thing to say.

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[–] BeaSouth (3350) 3 years ago

Wasn’t talking to you psycho

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 3 years ago

It's actually quite interesting how wokes repeat the same straw-man fallacies over and over. And I think there's something more to it. It's like they Need to Believe it, the same way Christian fundamentalists needed to believe that Atheists secretly worshipped Satan. You have always the same constant "you hate women", "you hate non-whites" litany, which sounds more like a creed, a repeated mantra, a dogma of faith, more than a good old traditional straw-man fallacy.

Anyway, I'm sick of woke agenda in modern western media, so I'm turning to Asian one. Which means I watch a Kdrama, where 100% of cast is Korean, hence non-white, because... I hate non-whites. Yeah, that makes so much sense.

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[–] BeaSouth (3350) 3 years ago

A person of good faith tries to understand the other party to a disagreement, honestly listens to them, and endeavors to see where they’re coming from. Narcissists don’t care about or try to understand the other person. They deliberately fabricate some repulsive strawman position by the other person in order to set themselves up as the hero in the exchange. Wokeness is likewise narcissistic because it’s all about virtue signaling in the hopes of achieving some public praise or acknowledgement. (Like boasting for social credit about having a favorite co-worker who’s gay or a residence in a neighborhood with Asian people). It’s natural that the woke rely on strawman arguments because the essence of both is narcissism.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 3 years ago

I slightly disagree. I don't think it's narcissism, I think it's religious fundamentalism (I see wokeness more like a neo-religion than as a political ideology).

What's the difference between a person who kills without remorse because he's a psychopath, and a person who kills without remorse because he killed a non-believer and thou who kill non-believers will be rewarded with 40 virgins in heaven? Religious fundamentalism can trigger a behavior which is very similar to a psychopathy. I don't think wokes are narcissist, I think they behave as narcissists.

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[–] BeaSouth (3350) 3 years ago

I have to admit there is a religious element. Those who don't conform to the woke catechism are labeled as heretics and quickly excommunicated or "cancelled."

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 3 years ago

Mmm... I think that wokeness being a neo-religion explains that.

There's a saying in Spanish, "fé del converso". I don't think it has an equivalent in English, you but you could translate it as "new convert's faith". It was originated after the Reconquest: people who stayed were forced to become Catholic, and as a way to "prove" their new faith, they became the more fundamentalist ones. Hence the saying. A new faith can lead to religious extremism and passionate virtue signaling. I think that's what we're seeing among wokes.

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[–] Pete314 (3040) 3 years ago

Well said. I think when (only Christian?) religion started to become irrelevant, people still needed something to put their faith in. The list of substitutes for religion is pretty long, it ranges from turbo-capitalism to fascism to nowadays wokeness...

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 3 years ago

Agreed. Wokeness is the mainstream trend, but you can see a similar trend in other places too. You check economic liberalism, and "liberalize the market" has become the universal mantra that solves every problem of humanity, when it should be just a tool that works very well in some cases and gives quite a few problems in others. Even Science is used as a replacement for religion nowadays.

It's depressing.

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[–] chilone (17913) 3 years ago

Very well done!! Touche'!!

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[–] Allison44 (602) 3 years ago

You're completely full of shit. Just admit it's the racial diversity, in and of itself, that bothers you.

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[–] McQualude (4231) 3 years ago

But what if it isn't? What if woke is real?

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[–] edge (126) 3 years ago

Racial diversity does not bother me. I enjoy it. My family is diverse. Diversity makes life more interesting. Stereotyping is boring and insulting. Stereotyping diminishes diversity. Pigeonholing the presentation of characters based on their ancestral deravation is weak. Multidimensional characters are more interesting.
The use of name calling and expletives in a debate is childish. Virtue signaling is pompous and supercilious.
This site is based primarily on discussing television and cinema. I enjoyed the show. The negative criticism I had with the show was the not so subtle use of the characters as tropes to express an agenda.

I wish you peace.

Stay Gold
Edge
PS The woke movement is real. Its penchant for cancellation is mean and sad. Civil discourse is good. And, can be illuminating and fun.

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[–] Allison44 (602) 3 years ago

Okey doke BUT that doesn't mean Clickbait is a woke production! Of course woke is real. I don't dispute that at all. The show, however, didn't derive its story-telling from a woke agenda. It had racial diversity and that's that. And telling you you're full of shit isn't name calling. If I said something like " you're an insidious racist wanker, thinly disguised by pseudo- analytical nonsense" , well , that might be name-calling. But I didn't. Peace and love and happy horseshit to you too.

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[–] edge (126) 3 years ago

Ouch! Look to my OP for the reasons I said the production is rife with a underlying woke agenda. You're correct, calling me full of shit is not name calling. It is not civil. It is rude. It is immature. Name calling it is not. But it did not take long for the name calling to be launched. E.g., "Insidious racist wanker." "If I said something like you're an insidious racist wanker." Well, you are saying it. One disagrees with some people and quickly they will use the, albeit unfair, cudgel of the term racist. Well so much for a debate on a rational level. Is horse manure ever happy?

What is brown and sounds like a bell?
DUNG

“Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace.” —Dalai Lama

Peace
Stay Gold
Edge

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[–] Daisy_Mabel (129) 3 years ago

Typical conservative argument tactic. Make up some huge accusation/lie and then start crying when someone calls you out. The fact that you care if someone wants to make strides to show muslims as heroes or other non-white/non-heterosexual characters of worth is what makes your argument racist. If someone flat out said to you "hey, I think it's a good idea to expose more people to the real world in that muslims aren't all religious zealots, black people aren't always criminals, women aren't always nurses - so I want to make television that shows these people in ways of which I'm familiar." Why is that an issue to you? Why does it bother you that people want to show the more we have in common with those who aren't like us?

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[–] edge (126) 3 years ago

See my response below. I never said non-white or non-heterosexual people have no worth. Why do you ascribe statements or feelings to me that have not been elucidated? Is it because you have an ax to grind and you are looking for a neck. Perhaps my neck. Be a debater not a hater. I dare say you are the one making up accusations.

“Accusation reveals the character of the accuser more than the accused”
― Bangambiki Habyarimana, The Great Pearl of Wisdom

Stay Gold
Edge

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[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

When the diversity of a movie that is supposed to be a normal movie goes to an extreme it becomes woke on its face. If I were shooting a movie about investment bankers in New York and had half the cast black or hispanic then I would have ignored reality and gone woke. Is it possible that you would have a muslim cop? Yes, but the probability is low... that doesn't make it woke... but when you look at the totality of the number of low probabilities related to who a character is and when they starts to shine out like little beacons, then it becomes woke.... Or if you do a remake of a previous movie and magically make the previous male characters all female it becomes woke, or if you took the straight characters and then made them gay, it becomes woke. Lots of ways to make something woke and in the end it is like the courts defining what pornography is... they can't define it but can tell what it is when they see it... that's how it is with woke crap. Only problem is someone that is already drinking the kool-aid from the woke tent don't ever see it because they are already brainwashed.

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[–] Allison44 (602) 3 years ago

TS???

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[–] Daisy_Mabel (129) 3 years ago

You're contradicting yourself. You simply hate seeing races, ethnicities, LGBTQ and probably women thriving in areas in which you think they should be placed. That's not how the world is made up. There are muslim cops. There are gay Asians. There are people who don't always do the right thing. As for an agenda, people write what they see and what they want to see. You are free to write a television show and you can put an old, white man as the hero. It's no more of an agenda than the delusional one you've made up here. If I write a story and I put a dog in it instead of a cat, it's because I like dogs more than cats, I see a dog more in my story and that's how I want to write it. I have no agenda to make people like dogs more than cats. And it's no agenda to show others that people different from them don't always act in stereotypical ways. Do you also get upset if a movie has a white terrorist - is that an "agenda" to woke us out of seeing muslims as terrorists? Do you really think that showing women as doctors is an evil coup to take over work for males in the world? You don't like the show because it shakes the foundation of your thinking and hatred of others. Your acceptance of diversity in your family is no different than any other person who oppress others and only accept what he knows.

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[–] edge (126) 3 years ago

Ah, a cogent and well constructed argument. But, now you knew there was going to be a but. But, let me disabuse you of some of your statements. You stated,"You don't like the show because it shakes the foundation of your thinking and hatred of others." From my OP on the second and third sentences I wrote, "I enjoyed it. A solid 7 in my book." I do not have a foundation of hatred of others. That is unfair. I do not think all Muslims are terrorists nor do I think all Muslims are heroes. I do not think all people of European descent are stupid and angry. But, some are. I believe that all large groups are made up of 98% good and intelligent people. But each group has a few knuckleheads. Having said that, if a story only shows some groups with only negative characteristics while only projecting positive aspects of the others, that is poor writing. And smacks of projecting a bigoted and racist agenda. That is not delusional. Would not characters. of multiple dimensions be better and more entertaining? Let us be inclusive. After all, we all have feet of clay. But, we are not entirely made of clay. I am just looking for a little equity here. Again, a quote from your post,"People different from them don't always act in stereotypical ways." My point exactly! People do not act stereotypically. Why write them that way? Could it be that we could agree on something? The show was good. I believe it could have been a little bit better. We are still talking about the show. Right?

This is a wonderful day; I have never seen this one before.
Maya Angelou

Stay Gold
Edge

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[–] McQualude (4231) 3 years ago

I'll pass.

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[–] TheArgentinian (7109) 3 years ago

so you're mad because there are minorities on it. I think there's a word for people like you.

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[–] edge (126) 3 years ago

I am not mad nor angry. I enjoy a diverse cast.

Stay Gold
Edge

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[–] chilone (17913) 3 years ago

And there's a word for people like you: Idiots.

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[–] TylerAArse (2884) 3 years ago

So, if it ain't white, it ain't right?

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[–] edge (126) 3 years ago

If it ain't right, it ain't right. That is all I am saying.

“Condemning others as bad or sinful is a way to feel righteous. Such a feeling is a powerful mood alteration and can become highly addictive.”
― John Bradshaw, Healing the Shame that Binds You

Stay Gold
Edge

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[–] UncleRuckis (2627) 3 years ago

The hell are you talking about? The Nick character is a white male and he's probably the most honest person of anyone in the show. His wife was black and far from innocent. She was cheating with another black man. His youngest son was a moron. The gay asian(not that either of those two things are relevant) reporter guy was an opportunistic POS. Pretty much every character outside of Nick was some level of shitty!

Definitely seems like what you hate is any sort of diversity.

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[–] edge (126) 3 years ago

From your post,"Definitely seems like what you hate is any sort of diversity." That is not true and unfair. I have never used the word hate. You are projecting. I'll say it once again, I enjoy diversity. I made my comments based on the lack of dimensions of the characters, all of the diverse characters. Read my OP. Nick did not have a lot of screen time. And he was not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Which continue adding to the narrative that the writer was expounding.

"Insecure people put others down to raise themselves up."

Habeeb Akande

I think this thread has run its course.

I wish all a healthy and happy life. Especially to the virtual signaling racist out there. I know eventually they will not be so short sighted. There is hope.

"No problem can withstand the assault of sustained thinking."
— Voltaire

Stay Gold
Edge

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[–] SheHateMe (37) 3 years ago

Good point. This served as an unintentional Rorshach test for the TS, who seems to be in need of a better social life. While trying to critique people's responses and argumentation skills, he's missed the points that... YES the gay Asian reporter was a POS (one of the most unlikable characters, possibly), the wife cheated, then tried to blame the husband for being a bad guy - and made a conscious choice to assume the worst about him to absolve herself of guilt, the muslim cop not-so-subtly accused his superior of being bigoted, then was, in response, called out for specific work-related reasons that he couldn't refute, most of the people who were wronged were Caucasian (Nick, the women on the internet, even the kidnapper)... there's probably more I'm not thinking of.
(This is a response to the post I'm replying to... I'm not here to go back and forth with the pedantic, delusional TS... I see no use in that.).

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[–] Geiri (862) 3 years ago

Yeah those middle class Obama kids must be in serious danger just freely walking into a police station to assist with a case. Give me a fucking break. No teaching your kids to fear and not respect the police is what will get them in trouble.

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[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

Actually you don't get in trouble because you don't respect police you get in trouble because you don't fear them. I have zero respect for cops, mostly because I'm not white and growing up I got pulled over by the cops on a regular basis with my car searched so many times I can't even remember them all. But I didn't get shot because I knew to fear the fuckers. My parents taught me to do what they said and not say anything or do anything stupid because they could and would shoot your ass just for fun. Frankly, the problem today is too many parents are explaining how you should fear the fucking cops.

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