Stephen King Is Confused - The Marvels (2023) Discussion

[–] VanZan (906) a year ago

Of course there's an element of misogyny by some but Brie Larson is quite unlikable. If this movie had been a success she'd have been unbearable.

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[–] KCurmudgeon (264) a year ago

Honestly I like Brie (at least as an actor and don't pay enough attention to celebrity opinions to have any feelings about her as a person) and have since the United States of Tara. For me though. I'm just over the whole theater experience having gotten used to having first run movies available in-home to watch at *my* convenience, be able pause to get a snack use the bathroom, etc. Truthfully, I'm a bit surprised that theater movies came back at all after the pandemic. I guess date-nights?

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[–] Kowalski (76210) a year ago

EXACTLY...THE THEATER EXPERIENCE WHILE ONCE AMAZING AND ESSENTIAL SEEMS OVERPRICED,TROUBLESOME AND UNNECESSARY THESE DAYS.

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[–] Wint3rFir3 (7188) a year ago

Totally agree, the movie theatre experience isn't really an experience anymore for most people, it's a costly nuisance, and Barbie was the exception to that.

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[–] Creamofdacrop884 (1845) a year ago

King is a clown

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[–] 123Guy (7376) a year ago

Why?
Because parenting has devolved from "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything" to "if you don't have something nice to say, say it online"

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[–] Redsfan001 (6156) a year ago

Barbies demographic target is different. (Gay men and women)

Marvels demographic target market is overwhelmingly white male teens and young men.

When you have a Marvel superhero movie that features 3 young females as the heroes (without being overtly sexy) The target 🎯 demographic can't identify with them as well as if they were men, and will not pay to watch.

As this was the first all female superhero cast, one can assume that this film was kind of a test to see just how popular superhero movies are with women..turns out...not so much.

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[–] RockAway (1601) a year ago

It was far and away the number one movie out in theaters this weekend, it just didn't do as well as other Marvel movies.

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/

The Marvels $47.0M
Five Nights at Freddy's $9.0M
Taylor Swift: The Eras Tour $5.9M
Priscilla $4.8M
Killers of the Flower Moon $4.7M

Captain Marvel did better numbers than the Spiderman movie that came out that year so I really don't think that this is about women. There are good movies and bad ones.

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[–] LanceDance (1314) a year ago

Being the number one movie isn’t saying much when there’s no competition, and especially when some of those movies have been out for a while, with Freddy’s also available for streaming. Last I heard, Spider-Verse 2 did better its first few days than Marvels did.

This movie was a failure in its opening weekend, that’s all there is to it.

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[–] RockAway (1601) a year ago

Yeah it didn't do well for a Marvel movie but I don't think its because of women.

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[–] LanceDance (1314) a year ago

You’re partially right. Wonder Woman did very well. People like the character, and Gal Gadot managed to look kinda hot in the role. But there were still a lot of male characters in the movie, including Chris Pine as the male co-lead, and they were all capable and well-handled for the most part. And there was romance. Despite what some people might think, men do like romance to a certain degree, for similar reasons women do: they like seeing attractive males and females together.
The Marvels had 3 female leads, none of whom people care about, none of whom looked hot (well, Monica Rambeau definitely has them curves), and the men were practically a non-factor. And it had no romance at all.

Superheros predominantly draw in men and boys, always has and always will. Sometimes women and girls join in, but they're the exceptions. Boys and men usually gravitate towards male characters, just as girls and women do with females.
If women are gonna be main characters in men-dominated media, they need to be hot, both in and out of costume, and they need to actually be likable and interesting. Good acting and a decent story are a-given, but like the male heroes, the female heroes need to be hot and likable, and they need to have hot romantic interests to fight for.

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[–] WandererFromYs (2322) a year ago

☝️particularly when it just happens to be the most FEMALE-CHARACTER driven Marvel movie they've released. That doesn't really strike me as coincidence, especially given the gross misogynistic nature of these comments.

Well then maybe you should attack women for not supporting it, since they are the target audience.

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[–] ranmast (626) a year ago

Ouch, logic! This people are programed to not understand it. It all emotions and victimization in order to try to win arguments. So, it is the fault of men that a movie directed to women, and which women just ditched, bombed. Really?

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[–] RockAway (1601) a year ago

If a film directed at males does bad is it because the actors are male, or because is it because didn't look good to movie goers?

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[–] ranmast (626) a year ago

Exactly

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[–] RockAway (1601) a year ago

How was this movie directed to women?

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[–] ShadowHunter (814) a year ago

female director, three female leads, a female villain, a musical scene and kitty scene, with a weird cat marketting thing they did.does that scream men?

also we've been told because movies have been starring white males that women and minorities cannot relate and see themselves in the roles and need more representation and that we havent been making movies for them jsut men. so by their logic this was aimed at women and representing them, and men logically shouldnt be able to relate because we arent represented right?

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[–] ranmast (626) a year ago

does that scream men?

Ha, ha, ha... you are more than right. And this only have one real answer that I won't utter in order to keep things civil here (No, Sha'mendwHunter, the answer is not for you, but for the 'men' this movie scream for)

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[–] ShadowHunter (814) a year ago

i do enjoy musicals im not saying only women can like these things its just clearly geared more towards women.

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[–] RockAway (1601) a year ago

Haven't seen women complaining about watching movies with a predominantly male cast . . .ever. You realize that more movies have male leads right? Women don't watch those movies because they're for men? Come on bro.

I would personally rather watch women on screen than men, call me crazy but I prefer looking at them. I don't get as excited about seeing men in spandex, no offense if that's your thing.

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[–] ShadowHunter (814) a year ago

you know why right?

women arent told "theres too many female movies we need mre with men". they arent told "i dont care what women say about this movie i care about what men say". they arent told "hey if you dislike this movie you are a toxic women and part of the alt right". they arent told that when a movie fails its because of female misandry. this sort of thing leads to backlash.

yes most movies have male leads. when i said about the representation and casting and being able to relate i was making fun of the arguments these people use. its not me who says that. its them who say they dont feel represented by white male leads. dont take it up with me take it up with sad apologists like Kowalski and hellosidney

thats the best you have? a cowardly implication im gay? what a weasel you are.

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[–] TimeTunnel (4769) a year ago

"its not me who says that. its them who say they dont feel represented by white male leads."

Probably you meant all women with "them". 😎

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[–] ShadowHunter (814) a year ago

no im using the argument from people on here, many who are men. and pointing out the silliness of it and how it magically only applies to a male character women cant relate to and dont feel represented supposedly.

but if thats all you could address out of all my points you must not have any strong arguments

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[–] TimeTunnel (4769) a year ago

Yah, that's all I "could address" because I'm just a poor weak woman, not a "weasel".

Weasels are faster, steel is harder and leather is tougher. 😭

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[–] ShadowHunter (814) a year ago

so no argument. your concession is noted.

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[–] TimeTunnel (4769) a year ago

There isn't and there wasn't any "concession".
You should change your 'note'.
Just to avoid later surprises. 🤘🏼

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[–] ShadowHunter (814) a year ago

the moment you couldnt provide evidence and decided to go on this weird dodge you conceded and you lost.

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[–] TimeTunnel (4769) a year ago

Oh yah, here's this strategy again to declare yourself a winner. Sorry, you aren't a winner by self-declaration.

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[–] ShadowHunter (814) a year ago

if you dodge all the points and wont address them you lose. welcome to arguement/discussion/debate.

now you are crying that im calling you out on this. another dodge. thank you for showing you have nothing to add to this conversation. you are dismissed

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[–] TimeTunnel (4769) a year ago

I'm far from crying.
Are you really not aware with whom you're dealing right now? ☺

YOU dodged my question when I asked you who "them" is in this your sentence:
"its them who say they dont feel represented by white male leads."
YOU tried to tell me that these are just some few people in this thread and YOU knew very well that wasn't true.
It doesn't make sense to discuss on that basis.

And you're not in the position to 'dismiss' me. You can declare yourself a winner and note whatever you want. You're neither a winner nor a judge.

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[–] ShadowHunter (814) a year ago

so still nothing. you are dismissed

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[–] TimeTunnel (4769) a year ago

🥱

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[–] RockAway (1601) a year ago

Oh we are so oppressed! Getting told the truth that there need to be more female superheroes . . .the HORROR!

Nobody here is telling you that if you don't like the movie you are a misogynist, nobody. You haven't seen the movie, you want it to bomb, whine about being excluded because it was directed by a woman and features women.

It's GOOD to be inclusive, representation DOES matter. That doesn't mean that you are being excluded because others are being included.

I was not implying that you were gay, I was saying that it is okay if you are. Being gay isn't a bad thing, it would explain why you object to seeing women in these movies. I'm excited to see some beautiful women in tight uniforms.

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[–] Kowalski (76210) a year ago

I HAVE NOTICED YOUR POSTS A LOT RECENTLY...I LIKE YOUR STYLE...I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE OF YOU ON THE GENERAL DISCUSSION PAGE...WE HAVE A GREAT GROUP OF PEOPLE OVER THERE...FUN GAMES...MOVIE CLUB WITH WATCH TOGETHERS...IT'S A GOOD TIME.

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[–] RockAway (1601) a year ago

That sounds fun! Thanks for the invite bro :)

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[–] ShadowHunter (814) a year ago

Oh we are so oppressed! Getting told the truth that there need to be more female superheroes . . .the HORROR!

theres a need? we just had three in one movie. how did that work? apparently women have zero interest in seeing female superheroes.

Nobody here is telling you that if you don't like the movie you are a misogynist, nobody.

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-news/brie-larson-the-marvels-mcu-fanboys-misogyny-freak-out-youtube-trailer-trolled-1234714518/

"Brie Larson’s ‘The Marvels’ Already Has MCU Fanboys in Their Feelings Just say you hate women and leave, honestly"

You haven't seen the movie, you want it to bomb, whine about being excluded because it was directed by a woman and features women.

where did i whine about being excluded? you must not know how to read. i was mocking the arguement that weve been told that we need female superheroes because women cant relate to male superheroes. and that we need more female movies for women by women because the movies arent being made for them. so the inverse must be true right? by that BS logic i cannot connet to or feel represented by a female superhero, and this movie wasnt made for me.

i dont have a problem relating to a female led movie, or a black male led movie. but i keep getting told time and time and time again minorities cant related to white males in film and those movies arent meant for them. maybe they should be less racist because i dont have this issue?

It's GOOD to be inclusive, representation DOES matter. That doesn't mean that you are being excluded because others are being included.

I dont care about representation. i care about talent. and from the recent drop in quality it seems you are shown to be wrong. hiring and making movie decisions off "representation and diversity" is stupid and does not work.

you object to seeing women in these movies

where did i object? you got what you wanted. in the famous words of Brie larson "I want to know what it meant to women of colour, to biracial women, to teen women of colour, to teens that are biracial,"

How did that turn out for you?

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[–] Kowalski (76210) a year ago

YOU ARE CORRECT...LOGIC IS AFOOT...BUT YOUR'S IS FAULTY...THE MOVIE IS NOT INTENDED FOR WOMEN...IT'S A MCU FILM THAT FEATURES FEMALE HEROES...MAN AND WOMEN ARE NOT TWO SIDES IN ANY CONFLICT...THEY ARE SIMPLY PEOPLE...PEOPLE WHO DON'T FEEL THE NEED TO GO TO THE THEATER TO WATCH SOMETHING THEY CAN SEE FROM THEIR COUCH IN A MONTH...MYSELF INCLUDED.

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[–] VanZan (906) a year ago

You're really talking absolute bollocks this time Kowailski. It's a 95 minute, PG-13 film with three female leads (a teenage girl, a black woman and a white woman), the villain is also female, there's lots of kittens and a planet where everyone sings and dances. Are you really saying teenage girls aren't the target audience?

Next you'll be telling me the Mean Girls remake is not aimed at women either.

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[–] capuchin (3208) a year ago

No movie that cost $275m to make is targeted at one demographic.

The Marvels, like all modern blockbusters, is targeted at the widest range of people possible in order to make its colossal outlay back -- but primarily at young adults and families, because they're the people who buy the most tickets.

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[–] Kowalski (76210) a year ago

💯

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[–] ranmast (626) a year ago

No movie that cost $275m to make is targeted at one demographic.

Ha, ha, ha... That's what Disney believed and look what happened. If they really believed a movie with three female leads (a teenage girl, a black woman and a white woman), the villain is also female, there's lots of kittens and a planet where everyone sings and dances is targeting men and young boys, they are beyond delusional. They are dumb, so dumb to lose millions and millions for this stupid mistake.

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[–] RockAway (1601) a year ago

So a movie with three male leads, directed by a man with a male villain is targeted at men? Huh,I guess most movies are aimed at men, women must hate the cinema.

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[–] ranmast (626) a year ago

So a movie with three male leads, directed by a man with a male villain is targeted at men?

Duh! Of course it is. Do I have to repeat. The movie is targeted to men. Unless the 3 leads are DiCaprio, Pitt and Hemsworth and the Villain is Cavill. Sorry, but your question is so obvious it answered itself. Tell, how many romantic comedies (chick flicks, yes, chick) are there(and don't tell me romantic comedies are targeted to males mainly) which have three male leads and a male villain? And when I say 3 males leads I mean there is NO female leads, just three men. And if you can even find a some, can you tell us the box office result of such movies compared with the ones with female leads included.

Of course if we have such a movie (romantic comedy, three male leads, male villain and no lead woman), it will be said to be targeted to gays, not men, probably. But one thing is sure, people won't say it was targeted to women.

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[–] RockAway (1601) a year ago

So I guess the Bible is for men, Star Wars is for men, Indiana Jones is for men, Lord of the Rings is for men, the Hobbit is for men, Harry Potter is for men, the thousands of other films and subject matter that have a few women as an afterthought peppered in are all for men.

Yes I can tell you that Captain Marvel made more money than Spider-Man: Far from Home that came out the same year soooo?

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[–] RockAway (1601) a year ago

Why are women the target audience? Because the Superheroes are women? Are male lead films targeted to men or everyone?

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[–] TimeTunnel (4769) a year ago

Now please don't use logic here while many people are still stuck with outdated male-female role models. And no real man should ever admit that he likes cats too. While as a woman who also likes dogs, I'm immediately classified as a man or have to be leastwise a lesbian. 🙄

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[–] RockAway (1601) a year ago

I fucking love cats.

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[–] WandererFromYs (2322) a year ago

Yes, that is the exact reason that we are always told representation is important. People need to see someone that looks like them. It's a move to try and attract more female viewers, and that's fine. But when it doesn't work, and your core audience (males) are now less interested, you can't blame them.

Male lead superhero movies are absolutely targeting men. Why do you think so many of them are men? It's because they understood who their fan base was, and they targeted them. But the logic now is not target your fan base, and attack them when it doesn't work.

BTW, I know it's more than just male and female leads that determine who is going to be interested in movie. The subject matter definitely matters. In the case of comics, or super heroes, they are inherently more appealing to men. But an all female cast is definitely an attempt to get more women watching.

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[–] capuchin (3208) a year ago

Well, it is strange behaviour in adults, so Mr King's confusion is understandable.

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[–] jk90us (7330) a year ago

The hell are you talking about?

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[–] ShadowHunter (814) a year ago

Stephen king of all people should understand being mad when they take your art and change and bastardize it.

then on top of that imagine they took his stories and started race and gender swapping everyone. then on top of that imagine they told him he isn't writing enough books about strong black females. That he's writing too much about white males and that he should start

he would learn real quick why people are mad

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[–] ranmast (626) a year ago

then on top of that imagine they took his stories and started race and gender swapping everyone. then on top of that imagine they told him he isn't writing enough books about strong black females. That he's writing too much about white males and that he should start

I will tell you what will happen. He will be on every single interview, night time show and magazine screaming how good this idea is, that they should swap everything and everyone, gender and races. All this while privately eating his liver in frustration and anger, since he will be another victim of the hijacking of SJW and woke culture, where you have to comply or they will finish you one way or another (emotionally, economically, physically).

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[–] WandererFromYs (2322) a year ago

t doesn’t make any difference to me. I don’t even really see people when I’m writing. If I’m writing about a character, I’m behind their eyes. Unless they walk by a mirror or something, I don’t even really see what they look like.”

This is what he said about Idris Elba being cast as the gunslinger. But I've read enough Stephen King to know that he is being disingenuous. He absolutely has visions for his characters, and he describes them in detail in his books.

King has reached the point in his career, that he hasn't had to worry about creative control for a long time. There are no Kubricks left willing to question to him.

https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2017/08/stephen-king-on-idris-elba-as-the-gunslinger-why-shouldnt-he-be-black/

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[–] Moonglum9 (11296) a year ago

Elba should not have been the Gunslinger for the simple reason that a large part of the early story arc with Detta had to do with her hatred and mistrust of him cuz he was a voodoo honkey mofo! But then I saw the movie, and realized it didn't matter who they cast because it was so far away from the actual books that it may as well have been a different story.

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[–] WandererFromYs (2322) a year ago

Which makes sense for a black woman that grew up in the pre civil rights 50s and 60s. Susannah/Dettas race was important to the character, and those dynamics affected the story.

There are times when it doesn’t matter. For example in Dreamcatcher he basically tries to cast the characters in the book. The character of Kurtz he casts as James Woods, and they ended up getting Morgan Freeman. I don’t think many would complain about that, but to say you didn’t really an idea what they look like is just a lie.

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