Yeah, it takes a real tough guy to challenge the new kid in town to a fight at your house with all of your friends surrounding you.
I'm happiest...in the saddle.
Tell me about it. Not to mention him bringing up Jake's deceased father in order to goad him into fighting.
Logan, buddy. It's me, Deadpool! I shot youuuuuu....
Ryan was a coward. Simple. He brought up Jake’s father because their fathers were both alcoholics, only Jake’s was dead as a result of drunk driving into a tree. Taunting Jake about his dad was the only way for Ryan to get in (false) control of himself, since his dad pushed him around in front of his friends and he couldn’t stand up to his alcoholic father. We later meet Ryan’s dad when he’s offering a drink to one of Ryan’s friends. Take down a guy (Jake) when you can’t stand up for yourself, was apparently Ryan’s rationale.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned on this movie’s message boards is that children of alcoholics tend to be perfectionists. I only know this from working with someone whose other job was working in a doctor’s office (plus, she liked to research a lot) and she told me this bit of information when discussing her medial research and things she’s picked up on. Point being, Ryan sought perfection in the Beatdown tournaments (or whatever they were called) as being the champion (for two years, was it?), and in fighting Jake (in a trap) in front of his friends (more like groupies), since he had no real relationship with his father. Ryan’s father (according to Max) had Ryan in martial arts classes since he was 4 and (also according to Max) was psychotic (guessing the alcoholism).
Ryan sought perfection in his body (working out, training, Beatdown tournaments) and possible his mind (though I doubt it), but he had no heart, no sense of spirit, so he’d never truly achieve perfection, and never break his alcoholic father’s cycle.
By the way, when Ryan gets kicked in the head and knocked out in the parking lot in the final fight, that gave me an adrenaline rush of justice being served. Not sure if anyone else got that rush, or at least a feeling of relief for Jake, his family, and friends.
"He brought up Jake’s father because their fathers were both alcoholics"
Interesting theory, although I'm not sure that I would call Ryan's father an alcoholic, just an ass hole.
I'm happiest...in the saddle.
True, he was an ass hole. But I think the writer and director probably threw that scene in simply to explain why Ryan was the way he was. His dad said that line, "If you want to be the best, you've got to take out the best", which to me didn't make sense in the context between the father and son, other than to show that the apple didn’t fall far from the tree. Even if it was just to prove he had the upper hand on his son in front of his son's friends, it still didn't seem to work. It fit when Ryan was trying to get Jake to fight him, since they both brawled (albeit for different reasons), but that seemed to be the only context the line worked in. Since we knew that Jake's dad died from drunk driving, I think they showed Ryan's dad trying to hand out drinks simply as a way to show that Ryan and Jake's fathers had similar alcohol problems, and that both of the young men came from similar backgrounds. In the end, Jake overcame his family's problem, Ryan did not. "Everyone has their own fight" from Roqua (sp?) became Jake's adopted mantra and a way to acknowledge his emotional issues surrounding the haunting memories of his deceased father (since Roqua had become his surrogate father). Ryan's only mantra was the "To be the best…" from an emotionally dead father who offered out margaritas to his son's friends.
Given your signature, are you a James Bond fan? “A View To A Kill” perhaps?
Very interesting comments, thank you. The way I saw it was that Ryan pictured every enemy of his as his father, who he hated, and that's what motivated him in his fights. This is a good movie in that it can inspire the two of us to think about it like this, there's clearly more to it than being just a braindead MMA flick. And yes, I am a James Bond fan, good call on my signature!
I'm happiest...in the saddle.
yan was a coward. Simple. He brought up Jake’s father because their fathers were both alcoholics,
"I thought he brought up his father because he wanted to fight him and in the video of him fighting he saw that he didn't fight until the guy brought up his father. The whole bringing his dad up because of him having an alcoholic father makes sense too, but I didn't think the reasoning behind calling out a comment about his father had all that meaning behind it."
I'd agree about Ryan using the video as leverage to instigate a fight with Jake, given what the visiting team's player said. But I have to wonder, with that cam cordfer shooting far away, would it have picked up what the player said? Seems like it would have been too far away, and just seen the action of the fight. Also, how exactly would Ryan and his "friends" have known about Jake's dad dying in a car accident? People could say "they looked it up online." But why bother going to so much trouble. In my opinion, these kids really didn't seem to show that much initiative in life, other than fighting, watching fights, working out, and partying/drinking. They kept up with Jake's fights because someone recorded them and they ended up on YouTube, but what record would there have been of the accident? A ploice record, sure, but nothing to upload. Maybe I missed something.
"The whole bringing his dad up because of him having an alcoholic father makes sense too, but I didn't think the reasoning behind calling out a comment about his father had all that meaning behind it. "
If you're referring to the football player in the latter half of your sentence, I'd agree it didn't have that kind of meaning. But Ryan's comment would have, and I think (subconsciously) part of the reason for his bringing up how Jake's dad died had to do with his own relationship with his dad. Keep in mind, the only time we see Ryan's dad is when he's offering Ryan's friend a drink and comments "If you want to be the best, you've gotta take out the best" (which to me in that scene made no sense). Ryan was put down by his father and needed an outlet. Jake was it. But Ryan made the mistake of thinking that just because he knew MMA and Jake didn't, that he'd forever have an edge on him. As I mentioned in another thread, in the end, Jake didn't win strictly because of his muscles. He won because he found a way out of the headlock, re-discovered what mattered in life (Achilles' Shield), reconnected with his prana (the body breathes air, the spirit breathes prana, and Max said most people lose because they don't breathe), something Ryan apparently had never found, and knocked out Ryan with a kick to the head.
He was Jealous that Jake was going to take over has big man on campus with all the hype on him so he wanted to show everyone he was still king. But yes a complete and utter moron. Ryan was also jealous of Jake sexually as he looks like a ugly smoe compared to Jake who is the sex.
shareHe is misunderstood, he is a nice guy but he has been twisted by his life. "If you want to be the best you need to beat the best" He got carried away though, probably because he likes all the attention because he has daddy issues.
chiggity-check yourself, before you wreck yourselfshare
Ryan struck me as being a closet homosexual. He was with one of the hottest girls in school, probably that's because he felt what was expected of the big man on campus. He seemed to have little affection for Baja, and when she finished with him, the loss of face that the dumping caused seemed to bother him more than anything else. His rivalry with Ryan was obsessive to the point of a crush, and infer what whatever subtext you will from the fact that MMA involves sweaty, muscular men rolling around with each other.
"Why do you say this to me when you know I will kill you for it?"
Yes Baja was hot but don't forget his popularity made her popular. Before she was nothing and a nobody. He basically could have any girl in his choosing. I don't think it was Baja dumping her that bothered him at all. I think it was her words, where she said "the only time I see you truly happy is when you are hurting people." I think that struck a nerve because that's how he sees his father who he hates.
chiggity-check yourself, before you wreck yourselfshare
Good call on the dad thing. I never gave him much thought. What the hell does Ryan's dad do for a living, though? He's clearly minted, plus he's a fighing enthusiast.
"Why do you say this to me when you know I will kill you for it?"
"Yes Baja was hot but don't forget his popularity made her popular."
Hot chicks in high school don't need to be with any guy to be popular.
I'm happiest...in the saddle.
Did you see their *beep* school dude, every girl was hot, it's a high school in Florida.
chiggity-check yourself, before you wreck yourselfshare
I’ve read on other threads that people find this movie deplorable and the kids rooting on the fights as having no morals or ethics. Frankly I think taking the attitude of shaking heads and scoffing, "These kids today..." isn’t enough, because it’s the type or remark such rebellion thirsts for to strike out against. No, to really give these kids—in the fictional world of the movie—what’s coming to them, whether at the first fight at Ryan’s party rooting for some bruises and bloodshed, in the hallways at school watching on their various mobile devices, or at Club Zero’s Beatdown (and then in the parking lot), you have to imagine each person, one by one, slowly being pushed feet first into the wood chipper in Fargo. The only people I can see being spared are Jake, Baja, and Eric (at the parking lot fight). Eric finally came to his senses in the parking lot: "Jake, just tap out, man." Jenny (the girl standing next to Eric in the final parking lot fight) would be my choice for the first to go in, after Ryan. The crowd might have been chanting "Jake! Jake! Jake!" after he won, but they just wanted some blood and a victor in the end, regardless of who it was. I don’t think they backed any one fighter.
shareRyan was pretty badass, nothing pussy about him. Just because he is an *beep* doesn't make him a pussy. Pussies don't bully people and ask other people to fight them.
shareYeah, he was a pussy. He knew that he had his friends backing him if Jake got the upper hand in that first fight at his house. If he was such a badass, as you claim, he would've challenged Roqua to a fight and not Jake who had zero MMA training.
I'm happiest...in the saddle.