I've always felt that any reasonable work of art should be accessible to all colors of the human rainbow (including "Triumph Of The Will"), however, this movie is so isolated and culture-specific that it fails the test. With this effort, the Coens have obviously revealed themselves to be closet Jewish ideologues. Do they make popular movies ("The Big Lebowski", "Fargo") so that they can then justify making this kind of leaden, suffocating, insider, claptrap, the symbolism of which can only be discerned by other Jews? It's like a visual "secret handshake." The tagline of this movie should read, "Non-Jews Need Not Apply". I want my money back. I got duped.
Lots of cultural christian movies or exorcism movies or church-going proper christian life ingredients in movies, with crosses and bible passages all over the place, christmas lights on every house and never a menorah in winter timeframes, all with the assumption that jews automatically understand and care about it - with the additional assumption in the USA that this is some sort of a christian country - which it never has been and never will be.
But other than that religion being pushed into everyone's face with the religion's structural characteristic that every OTHER person needs to become christian or be simply wrong - those of other cultural and religious heritages make THOSE movies "accessible" by caring to learn other cultures such as christianity. Learn their holidays, and their rosary beads, their jesus persona, and their being absolved from any possible thing by confession or saying a few things. It doesn't matter that they completely don't relate in their own cultural upbringing.
And, that's why you don't see posts like yours for THOSE movies because other cultures quietly take it upon themselves to learn about the christian heritage and culture.
@65tbird: Christianity attempts to force a general catechism down everyone's throat so that there is no ambiguity possible. Christians love to elucidate all facets of their belief system. They'll accept you no matter who you are. A Christian would NEVER be vague or surrepticious, EVER! So, I really don't understand your argument (is there one?) If you can recommend a "Christian" movie as opaque as "A Serious Man", I'll make EVERY effort to see it. Thanks!
No, they also project blatantly that every other religion is simply wrong. Those of other heritages such as judaism in this case, are not trying to tell OTHERS that they are automatically wrong. But, jews and those of other religions go through that automatic admonition from christians, and in parts of MANY movies that are not called "christian" movies - but all the characters simply are.
And, of course there's ambiguity. They also shove down everyone else's throats incorrectly translated passages they made their bible about - and this also affects the laws that certain politicians try to affect everyone with.
Especially all those passages in the "old" testament that are severely edited from the jewish torah, and mistranslated in the dark ages. Such as sodom and gomorrah - which translated correctly was about rape and inhospitality and NEVER about homosexuality.
Also, there's those Leviticus passages such as the man lies with man, etc - also NONE of which has anything to do with homosexuality. It was about the Canaanites, and rituals performed in certain festivals by their priestesses and priests. It was put into Leviticus to warn jews against paganism such as considering some guy a second, additional god.
Even the word "abomination" in these leviticus passages that had nothing to do with homosexuality, used by christian characters in movies and republican politicians - has to be watched by Jews who know the actual hebrew word only meant "unclean" in the time it was written, broadly used to refer to anything from shellfish to prostitution. Instead, they pound everyone else with the evil "abomination" incorrect translation.
If the movie CALLS itself a christian movie - that's different.
Vague and surreptitious details exist in many movies with christian heritage just-so-happening to have a major part in the setting, but jews and those of other religions have learned enough of those characteristics to understand the movie and enjoy the actual plot. You should do the same with this movie. Its not that hard to do, and these were orthodox religious jewish characters, which most american jews weren't. So, it was more talmudic in its presentation - stories that many can relate to.
This is not a christian country, so people of other religious heritages don't make posts like yours on those movies simply because they made a point to learn. Again,you should do the same with this movie. If you don't, then your dismissal of jewish culture and heritage as something just not important enough to learn about - in order to understand this movie and millions of people, only makes your comments meaningless.
@65tbird I think you mistake my original intent on commenting about this movie. I don't care about Judaism or Christianity, one way or the other. We're talking about a movie that is so abstruse that it begs consecutive translation, probably even for Jews. All the specifics of your thesis are duly noted, but wasted on me because I couldn't care less about your biblical mumbo-jumbo - - designed to enslave. All religions (secretly?) believe that others are "lost" within their metaphysical world view. Your use of words such as "automatically", "simply are", "incorrect translation", "who know", "don't make posts like yours", "your comments meaningless", etc., reveal you as particularly pedantic, and somehow connected to formal Judaism either as a rabbi or true lay believer. I feel it's important, possibly for the survival of mankind, that we rise above the nebulous cultural trap of religion and seek only clarity. Why should the viewer have to figure out the "trick" to this movie? I believe in intellectualism and artistic metaphor, but this movie fails on both counts. I feel it just might be a Coen Brothers inside joke designed to punish a culture which has misused them.
That whole post misses the mark, so is ineffective.
I'm not religious at all. I just pointed out the inaccuracy in word translation because due to THAT, many people in the USA are being subjected to laws and contempt and smears. It enters into movies in the way that we all have to educate ourselves on all the "abstruse" details of THAT one particular religion - so we do in order to enjoy many movies, but a movie based in jewish culture comes about - and its just not important to learn about that culture, even as it takes place in america by americans - so to certain people like you - it is unimportantly a movie to be skipped and complained about. Even if you don't spell it out, it supposedly would have been FAR better if it was about the expected "american" culture, which includes movies with VERY esoteric and religious christian characters - (which is AOK, as many of those complaining actually think this is some sort of christian country). Obviously, as I have posted, it never has been, and never will be (no matter what this new moron president wishes, either).
@65tbird Sorry, but you just keep circling the wagons around your adamant position that one MUST like this movie, otherwise we'll all be somehow undone. Also, that we MUST learn about Judaism in order to save ourselves from...WHAT? You don't say. "This new moron president" has a daughter and son-in-law who are both Jews and who are his closest advisers, so I fail to see the cogency of your last remark. At a certain point, maybe for the sake of your own sanity, you're going to have to accept and admit that this is just not a good movie, (except for Jews, of course, and I assume you're a Jew.) I certainly would never feel that I had to tout it in order to demonstrate my intellectual equanimity. As I've already implied in an earlier post, it's a really bad joke played on us by the Coen Brothers. And if it's an accurate exposition of Jewish Middle-American culture, then all our understanding cannot help. Let's ignore it and maybe it'll go away.
The new moron president is an anti-semite. His campaign ingredients, political memes, and staff added to the original reasons people know this, such as his infatuation with Hitler's speeches and the book he kept close. It just doesn't matter if conservative media says differently, and its a reason why he lost by 3 million votes.
He'll be president due to the electoral technicality, but Hitler also got many less votes, but won the leadership position in Germany on a technicality. So, we're already a joke around the world (even Scotland's TV schedule with a straight face, just labeled the inauguration as an episode of the Twilight Zone returning), and Obama never was a joke (outside the USA conservative false-info bubble), especially in the world's eyes, social media, and opinions. We'll just have to survive the next 4 years with trump, except for those who will die from inability to cover continual courses of treatment due to their health coverage being taken away, and being too poor to afford the "replacement", to the contempt and pride of republicans.
Trump's daughter's conversion originally upset him years ago right in front of everyone's eyes, no matter how that was edited out of conservative media, and how much he touts it now to fool people into thinking he somehow supports Jews or Israel, and their assumption that Obama somehow didn't (which everyone knows it was just the conservative - like USA conservatives - Netanyahoo government and their decisions he opposed, just like Mossad and over half of Israel), leading to more uneducated opposition to Obama.
And, again, most people like this movie. There's no bad joke just because its about a culture you minimalize and don't care about, instead of the religious culture american movies "should" be based on if people are required to understand a religious basis in a movie.
So, no substantial amount of people want the movie to go away, and either already knew jewish culture because they were raised in mixed cultural areas such as the east or west coasts and major cities - or they realized a need to learn based on the gap created by that other religion never shutting up about themselves, trying to take over the country's culture (hence the phrase culture wars).
So, just be aware that your fervent ignorance, and thought that only your religious heritage is correct and important, aside from how religious you are personally - doesn't infuse that religion as the basis of USA culture. Its just one part, just like judaism is as this movie just so happens to be based on. Its just as viable as being based on any religion. Christianity is not even slightly more important to the culture or movie plots than any other religious heritage in america. So, to the majority, its a happy thing that the movie or the coens aren't going anywhere, And, even more people will have as common knowledge additional aspects of the equally important jewish part of american culture.
Your rambling discourse has forced me into a new format. I must now create some kind of a list:
Everybody is an anti-semite, or haven't you heard? Even Jews don't like Jews. I lived in Brooklyn once and they were at each other's throats all day long.
Also, Trump didn't lose by "3 million votes", he lost by 2.8 million. And anyway, that and a coupla dollars will get you a Starbucks, and he'll still be President. It doesn't go by popular vote, but you already knew that. The "electoral" isn't a "technicality", it's the Constitutional law of the land, handed down by our Founding Fathers in 1789. We've had 227 years to get that anomaly fixed, but nobody wants to buck the Fathers. I don't remember hearing anybody hating on the Electoral College BEFORE the election, except for - wait for it - yes that's right, Donald J. Trump.
Scotland is a vassal state of England and has no standing in world affairs. They should probably just shut up before they get bitch slapped by a cloistered nun.
The Re-pube-icans CANNOT get rid of the ACA. It's impossible. You're becoming a bit hysterical. They might modify it slightly and call it something else, but it cannot be gotten rid of. Relax.
I've always tried to like Netan, but the guy's just such a yahu. You misspelled it, Mr. Jew.
You can't possibly know if "most people" like this movie or not. Just because it's "liked" on an IMDB discussion forum means nothing. You're stretching just like Trump - False News???
Also, "no substantial amount of people want this movie to go away", is that right? My, my, how you do carry on. You can't know that either. More False News. You didn't know you were so much like the Orange Baboon, did you?
Oh, and just in case you didn't know it, ALL wars are "culture wars."
Rhetorical phrase: "fervent ignorance." Too funny! I might use that sometime.
The Coens "aren't going anywhere" as long as they make good movies. But again, this movie is NOT a good one. It's a very, very bad one.
The Jewish culture in America is NOT "equally important." For you to think so is somewhat poignant. Jews make me think of a flea crawling up an elephant's leg with rape on its mind.
I think the Jews are overlooking a great opportunity by not attaching little propellers to their kippot. Would be quite stylish and also fun. Try one and see. (Are you Jews allowed to have fun, or must you ALWAYS suffer?)
And finally, seeing as how you're quite conversant in the Holy Bible, could you tell me if Eden was full of talking snakes and apple trees? I've always wondered about that whole talking snake thing. Please advise.
"The Jewish culture in America is NOT "equally important." For you to think so is somewhat poignant. Jews make me think of a flea crawling up an elephant's leg with rape on its mind".
Of course its equally important. Who decided christian culture is more important in the USA (except for christians)?
And, you're point there illustrates MY motivation in commenting about your original post. I figured you thought as such.
Also, trumps electoral college win WAS a technicality, no matter where it was written down. Obama won both elections by the popular vote. It was brought up with the Bush win, and every extremely rare time that the president doesn't win both.
They will destroy the ACA due to only needing 51 votes since their win the other day to use reconciliation. This means mainly all the subsidies, and the millions on the medicaid expansion (Medicaid Expansion people have no recourse to stupid unaffordable things like healthcare savings accounts or meaningful tax credits plus competition across state lines won't do anything). And, hospital uncompensated care will rise dramatically from defunding that one thing. Its why many hospitals go out of business.
And, I know how to spell netanyahoo. Did it on purpose.
And, as I said I'm not religious, I keep just pointing out linguistics and translation. That's it. If people of a religion are going to use that religion to make laws in a secular country to oppress people - they should at least be accurate in translating those words into english.
Actually, I alone decided that Christian culture is more important. Without hard, empirical evidence to the contrary, I can say anything I want. Do you have such evidence, or are you simply blowing smoke? I'm gonna go ahead and give you comedy. There's nothing better than a good ol' Jew comic. Mel Brooks takes the cake! And some areas of classical music are dominated by Jews (definitely not opera.) And of course, movies are practically a Jew invention. But except for Streisand, Streep, and a few others, the great actors are mostly non-Jews. And speaking of comedy, the great Chaplin was not a Jew.
There's a difference between "you're" and "your". Not hard to learn. You should get right on that. Also, can you prove that you already knew how to spell "Netanyahu"? No, you can't. And I have always tried to like the guy, but it's hard to like a latter day Nazi.
As far as the Electoral College is concerned, technicality or not, the Orange Baboon will still be your President for the next FOUR YEARS. Semantics have never interested me, so go ahead and have it your own way on that.
Hate and paranoia stalk our land and its name is Trump. But that's OK because the large Basket of Deplorables are getting ready to learn a VERY painful lesson. ACA is safe.
You can't expect a country whose entire existence has been one of hypocrisy and murder to suddenly care about your piddling "linguistics and translation." Please at least TRY to be serious.
And what about my snake and apple question? It's a perfectly reasonable question that you, like Trump, are ducking.
Geez, that's funny, because in your post of Wed Jan 18 2017 @ 01:31:31, you mentioned a few biblical references. And you go into some detail, for example:
(1) "Especially all those passages in the "old" testament that are severely edited from the jewish torah, and mistranslated in the dark ages. Such as sodom and gomorrah - which translated correctly was about rape and inhospitality and NEVER about homosexuality."
(2) "Also, there's those Leviticus passages such as the man lies with man, etc - also NONE of which has anything to do with homosexuality. It was about the Canaanites, and rituals performed in certain festivals by their priestesses and priests. It was put into Leviticus to warn jews against paganism such as considering some guy a second, additional god."
(3) "Even the word "abomination" in these leviticus passages that had nothing to do with homosexuality, used by christian characters in movies and republican politicians - has to be watched by Jews who know the actual hebrew word only meant "unclean" in the time it was written, broadly used to refer to anything from shellfish to prostitution. Instead, they pound everyone else with the evil 'abomination' incorrect translation."
So you see, Mr. 65tbird, your dismissive comment of:
"Snake and apple question has to do with belief/religion. I'm not religious, so would not consider that something based on fact."
I REALLY wish you'd make up your mind exactly where you stand and exactly what you know, because you've gone to an awful lot of trouble to simply punk out here at the very last. But getting back to my original question that set you off on your tirade:
QUESTION: "Could a Muslim cinefile appreciate this movie?
ANSWER: "NO he could not." Only a Jew could appreciate it. It's all in code and Jew symbolism.
Now be a good Jew and let the grownups handle this kind of thing.
I welcome yet another Jewish poster. "Insane" is a relative term. I simply say that the cultural references and symbolism contained in this (haha) "movie" are way too inbred and esoteric for ANYONE but a Jew to understand. The only person intellectually inferior to me is Donald J. Trump, but then, he's intellectually inferior to a ringtail baboon. (However, he does have those two bang-able daughters! I digress...) Tell me, how does one "choke on their ABC's?" Is this just more indecipherable Jewish insider jargon. Please include a phrasebook next time. Thanks! (You'll excuse me now, but I've gotta run and choke on my ABC's - for err, ahh, just make it all night, OK?)
I know next to nothing about Jewish culture and, for the most part, I’m irreligious.
The thick slice of Hebrew culture & Yiddish in this movie did not detract from it one iota to me because the religion was not really the point, the trials & tribulations Larry was undergoing was the point. With few changes the movie could’ve been set with a Catholic family and still worked.
Many movies are steeped in cultural and historical / artistic traditions that I, and a majority of the audience, have absolutely no experience in such as “The Name of the Rose,” or “Twelve Years a Slave,” to name a few. If the filmmaker is competent, and you can hardly get more competent than the Coen brothers, then these things won’t matter. They certainly didn’t here for me.
Quite the opposite, in fact. I found the Jewish traditions depicted in this movie to be fascinating.
Tell us how you really feel next time, huh?
I guess if this was a documentary about the suburban lives of non-observant Jews, you'd give it a pass?
IMO, your comment is a crack on some observations about a specific culture.
Should I be pissed because the actors in Fargo had exaggerated Minnesota accents? Maybe they were too nice?
Of all the things to complain about in this world today, the Jew-ness of this film should not be one of them.