MovieChat Forums > Surrogates (2009) Discussion > What's Wrong With Using A Surrogate?

What's Wrong With Using A Surrogate?


I'm conflicted as to what is so bad about using a surrogate. I can think of a bunch of fairly decent reasons as to why they are a good idea, but nothing worthwhile for why they are wrong.

Surrogates are excellent for the disabled and the infirm, be it temporary or otherwise. They are not autonomous robots that subject themselves to cold logic at the expense of humanity (after all, they are entirely controlled by humans). They allow for complete sensory feedback, whilst protecting the user from bacterial or viral infection, physical damage or poisoning, effectively meaning that you can do anything you normally could, without it being of permanent disadvantage to you. They can emote and communicate fully, so you'd still be able to express yourself. They do not age, and any wear and tear can be repaired with no pain, and quickly. They are engineered with advanced, precise technology, so you are guaranteed a full set of faculties. The film claims that since their widespread use, crime and disease has mostly vanished.

As for down sides, I don't really see that many. There's the wealth problem, where these things are too expensive for much/most of society to use, but this is never addressed in the film. I'm unsure whether they have the ability to eat for pleasure, though I don't see why they wouldn't. People could appear different from what they really are, but this doesn't seem like much of a big deal at all. There's a weapon that can kill surrogate users, but there have been weapons that can kill humans since the beginning of human history; at least this weapon is extremely expensive, highly classified, and only one exists. People can attack your body while you're plugged in, but they can attack you while you sleep already.

The film only seems to say that "If your body is completely synthetic, you're not really human." Which means that your body is what makes you human, regardless of your thoughts, personality, etc. Which makes no sense, unless you wish to say that the use of any prosthetics makes you less human, or chatting online makes you less human, because you are not physically looking at the person.

The way I see it, it can be likened to using a typewriter or using a word processor. A typewriter is a physical, real thing that stamps physical, real ink onto physical, real paper; a word processor is a virtual program that types virtual letters and words onto a virtual page. A word processor (like a surrogate) can do things that no typewriter can (correcting your spelling, allowing you to undo changes, instant changes of font and colour), but it is not a physical thing. And while a physical, real typewriter is nice and authentic, it's a far lesser tool for writing than a word processor. And the book you think about writing with it are going to be the same, which is surely the point; whether the tool is your organic body or a surrogate, your humanity is the same, it's still you.

Am I making sense here? Of COURSE I'd get a surrogate.

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Well, all this is true, I'd say the pros far outweigh the cons. However, if I was to go on vacation somewhere tropical perhaps, or play a game of bowling or golf, go for a swim, and maybe a couple other kind of pleasures, I think I'd like the feeling of actually being there, letting my real body feel the climate or use its own energy to play, swim, etc. So with the exception of a few certain leisure activities I'd be more than happy to let a surrogate run my daily routine.

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I can't think of any real drawbacks.

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Because Hollywood is filled with secular humanists and technology is bad, especially when monopolized by a big corporation run by white Anglo-Saxon Protestants.

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I think the reason is that people would lose their humanity. We can see reasons given on the movie, Tom's wife hides herself behind the surrogate, canter claims that surrogates make people addicted, and Tom feels he's disconnected from reality and that he's lost that connection with his wife.

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I think it would be an awesome idea for people who are handicapped.

But just like everything it woudl catch on with the rest of the world as well. Look at computers. In the 80's not every one had a computer and now its hard to find someone who doesn't

pros:
The ability to do work faster
More strength than your regular body.
Longer life or at least your surrogate would look the way that you want to look ideally.

Cons:
less health to the user. If you are sedentary most of the time.
Lack of strength. Your muscles would atrophy due to long periods of lying in a bed.
Less accountability. People in chat rooms act as if the others opinions dont count and get into flame wars because they are hiding behind the fact that the other person doesn't see them or know who they are. I could see this happening if everyone has surrogates.
Lack of socialising. People would basically end up like hermits. never leaving their homes

But on the other hand if everyone had surrogates I could see a counter culture of people rebelling and choosing not to use their surroagtes. Not because they cant afford one but to be unique and stand out

But then again they might also try to stand out by getting a non-humanoid surrogate :P

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The film is anti-futurist, anti-transhumanist, and sees these ideas as dehumanist.

In short, *beep* but look at all the controversy surrounding such ideas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism#Controversy

People don't like change. It's really *beep* annoying, since the only thing people do is slow down progress, they'll never stop it, but they can slow it down enough to ruin the possibilities for our generation, which sucks, a lot.

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I wouldn't feel safe being a real human surrounded by surrogates. It'd be like being on the internet, although home to many great people, is also overflowing with trolls and people who act differently because they can hide behind their computer. What happens when these people can still hide behind a computer but can venture out into the real world and interact with real humans?

That is a major con, in my opinion.

Chatting online IMO does make you less human. You lose the ability to convey emotion, I mean, we all know how impossibly difficult it is to convey sarcasm through text. I mean, we have pedophiles getting arrested on television for chatting with adults, but their crime was they just happened to believe they were chatting with children, and going to meet those "children" in real life.



Side note: how do you feel about genetically modified babies? I mean like ones that are modified to be born with certain physical attributes, such as height/good looks/athleticism? Or steroids in sports?


Ugh, sorry my points are all over the place, I just finished this movie and it's pretty late, I'm having trouble focusing my thoughts!

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Sorry, I know this is a four year old thread, but I had to respond.



Side note: how do you feel about genetically modified babies? I mean like ones that are modified to be born with certain physical attributes, such as height/good looks/athleticism? Or steroids in sports?


The movie Gattica (1997) starring Ethan Hawk and Uma Thurman, has me voting against such technology. Technology of this kind would only be fueled by money and lots of it. I feel this would follow the movie heavily in that only the rich could afford the best genes and the less fortunate..well, they would barely get any good genes.

Soon, that future would comprise of gene discrimination as an influx of genetically altered babies infiltrated society and grew into young adults, causing a change in the world and it's acceptable minimums. A lot of your blue and white collar jobs would have gene requirements and if your DNA doesn't fit the minimal, you are left out. The lowest of the lowest jobs would only then, be available to you, along with the majority of the poor being a janitor, garbage man etc.

Fast food, and unhealthy restaurant (aka if it doesn’t have the green veggie smoothie drinks) jobs would be extinct. Genetically altered humans might despise junk food and could have an elitist ego when walking among the less fortunate. Youth and a fit body are in the mind’s eye of the new social norms of the hyper-genetic era.


If you are seeing yourself standing in another room, you are definitely not fine

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I feel this would follow the movie, (Gattaca), heavily in that only the rich could afford the best genes and the less fortunate..well, they would barely get any good genes.

It is happening now, epigenetically, without the need of expensive CRISPR genetic-mods. A wealthier family normally provides the stimulating environment for proper growth and development. The opportunities to climb the ladder of success are numerically greater.

And of course, a Manziel can skew the perceptions. Heck, even Dubya travelled that route for a bit.

One would think that someone in the upper class would have pride in one's great lineage and choose not to fix what "ain't broken."









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The pros are also the cons: surrogates enable you to be more than human, with extra strength, never getting ill, looking as young and beautiful as you want. These are all also downsides: if you are more than human (in a sense) then you are also less than human.

I wondered how all those humans felt looking at other real humans again after years of looking at physical perfection of surrogates all day every day?

There are also physical downsides: look at the news stories nowadays of people who neglect their children, even letting their own babies die because they're spending too much time online gaming. When do human bodies get exercise, fresh air and all the rest that we need to physical and mental health?

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