MovieChat Forums > Justice League (2017) Discussion > Will The Russo Brother Be The Greatest C...

Will The Russo Brother Be The Greatest CBMs directors ever?


as of Right now, I think if were going by The Majority Consensus, Christopher Nolan Is Probably considered the best CBM director ever...

He Made A Universally Praised Batman Trilogy that Was Wildly Successful in every way, and made 1 Film in The Dark Knight that is again based on The Majority Consensus probably considered the best CBM ever or at least near the top of most people lists.

But My question is, If The Avengers 3+4 are close to the same Incredibly Quality as The Winter Soldier and Civil War or somehow Impossibly even better(which after The Trailer that was just released that now seems possible) Will The Russo Brothers be considered by The Majority as The best CBM directors of all time....

The Winter Soldier and Civil War truly are among the best CBMs ever made, They both were game changers, Both are among The Majority Best CBMs ever....

If One or Both of The next 2 Avengers movies turn out Truly Great....

I think at the very least The Majority will be 50/50% split on The Best CBMs Directors of all time between The Russos or Nolan. If they are BOTH Great, I think The Majority will swing toward The Russos


I also think theres a possibility This may not even be a Debate after The Avengers 3 and 4....That Trailer for IW felt Special, it truly feels like something we haven't seen before, It truly does feel like the Culmination of 17 films over almost 10 years, Bringing all these characters from all these different movies, having gone through So different stories and Witnessed The characters arks of these characters for 9 years....I think these movies have the potential to be something different, something game changing, and based on Feige's comments about The MCU drastically changing going forward, and based on the fact that Many of the actors contracts are up, I think These films are going to go places and kill characters or do things with characters that we would have never imagined, and I think that is what could make these 2 movies on a different level....we Truly dont know whos going to make it out, certainly not everyone, seeing characters like Cap or Thor actually die, after us the audience being with them for 6 + films is going to be unlike anything ever in cinema.

I think its possible The Avengers 3+4 could be so Great, Its wont even be a debate after whos the greatest CBM directors....

Or it could still very well be a debate or The Consensus might still favor in Nolans direction....

what are your thoughts, if Avengers 3+4 are great, Will The Russos take The Greatest CBM directors ever title?

PS, also do you think Snyder is now considered the worst CBM director after KILLING the DCEU with 3 universally hated films....I mean he didnt just screw up any old CBM, He shit the bed With 2 "Once in a lifetime movies" in BvS and JL....

lol

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I don't think they'll reach Donner or Burton levels of appreciation in the longest game but yeah, why not - they've done well with what they've had.

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Given the sheer gargantuan size of the franchise and its success, the Russo brothers sure are on the list, not only for the title of biggest CBM, but also the one with the most revenue.

IF [and I emphasize IF] Avengers IW and Avengers 4 succeed, they may make more money than Avatar; which is the the B.O champion to this day [quality wise... yukk, can't stand it].

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You are rather dense. Did you not hear me openly admit that the DCU is trash outside of Wonder Woman? What good is it doing providing me the link to that video? Man of Steel, Batman V Superman Dawn of Justice, Suicide Squad and Justice League have bad critical reception. The only good film from the DCU was Wonder Woman. MCU even at it's worst has at least decent critical reception. You act as if this threatens me it doesn't. I am actually glad the DCU is failing hopefully now they will just quit. I have not even seen Justice League because of how bad BVS was.

The original poster posed the question will the Russos go down as the best comic book movie directors ever if Infinity war is as good as Civil War and Winter Soldier. Short answer for me is no. While Winter Soldier and Civil War were solid films they were not the game changers for cinema like he was trying to play them off as. Donner, Raimi, and Nolan made their stamp on the genre much more potently than they have.

Is it going to be a huge commercial hit of course that is a no brainer. Will it be as good as something like Superman the movie, Spider-man 2, The Dark Knight or even Logan I doubt it.

So dude honestly man relax. I think Guardians of the Galaxy was better than both civil War and Winter Soldier. Even that though I would not put it on Superman the movie, The Dark Knight or Spider-man 2's level.

The debate was not MCU vs DCU you made that imaginary fight up in your own head. I pointed out other directors and films outside of the mcu I thought did better and were better films. Critically MCU is not the top of the comic book genre that is a fact. It has box office pegged but not critical acclaim. Superman the movie, Spider-man 2 and the Dark Knight are higher received critically than any MCU film to date.

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what are you responding to dude? Did another vein pop? XD

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Your last post smart one. The boxes start to cut your sentences up and make it run a long vertical line. I figured I would be courteous and provide you a pleasant reading experience my friend.

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LMFAO.

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Yep all you can do is laugh. Bottom line you are the one who cast a generalization onto me. Oh he he likes Nolan's Batman films that means he is a blind fanboy that will like anything DC right? Which explains why I have not even seen Justice League and actively hate all the DC films since Nolan left with the exception of Wonder Woman...

I infinitely prefer the MCU to the DCU. I am not brand biased as I see some are. I won this debate many times over. Critically Spider-man 2 trumps any MCU film and there is no excuse you have against it. I simply gave my two cents as to why I do not think the Russos are on Donner's, Raimi's or Nolan's level.

They did not even pioneer the team up aspect of superhero films that was Singer's X-men film in 2000 owned by Fox.

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awww gawwwwd

and he keeps coming back


"I broke you" XD

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Nah I simply made you look foolish and ignorant. Anyway we done here?

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you sure didn't. Care to read the very first thing I said about Donner?

You idiot.

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Care to point out where I ever said the DCU was good and better than the MCU? GO through my posts and point to where I denied the failure of the DCU. I will wait.

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I won. I made you whine, cry, get mad... in sum: "I broke you"


PS - DK is Overrated.

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You said some good things about Donner and Burton. Thing is the second I voiced my like for Nolan's films is where your ass got sore. Since your ass got sore you then projected a generalization onto me. Oh he is a blind DC fanboy. Nope I couldn't care less what logo is on the front of the damn film as long as it is good I will enjoy it. I do not care if you like Nolan's films that is fine but I did not cast a generalization onto you like you did me.

Then you proceeded to utterly embarrass yourself. You then said the MCU craps all over the Batman films because of box office gross. That is so damn weak I can not even fathom how you honestly posted that with a straight face. Box office is not a measurement of quality. If that was the case Tranformers 3 and 4 should be applauded for making gobs of cash.

Blade Runner 2049 is my favorite film this year. It wont gross anywhere close to any MCU film. It has more artistic value than any MCU film to date. Check the critical reception on that for me. The fist Blade Runner was a bomb as well. That now is seen as a masterpiece and remembered very fondly among critics. Much more than any Marvel movie will ever be I guarantee it.

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Sigh... You sure are a whiner aren't you dude?

dude.... I'm a huge Nolan fan [love everything the dude touchesm except DK and DKR; the first one was quite good].... but the MCU craps on everything Batman. The MCU has horrid movies [Thor 1 and 2 are atrocious] but overall is well thought out.
DK is an overrated movie [call it "Minority" as you will, it got pumped due to Ledgers death; you can not deny it] and the "see I'm so based on realism... and dark filter... and serious" is dead and gone. Didn't work for DCEU, wouldn't work now either for anything [the epitome being Watchmen. But, like I said, it worked wonderfully for THAT movie never to be repeated again].

PS - One of my favorite movies have bad scores [the mothman prophecies]. I don't care.

PS2 - Blade Runner [the original] is also one of my favorite movies [my absolute favorite is 2001; no movie comes remotely close to it]. Blade Runner needs no sequel. BR 49 brought nothing new to the table while paying an homage to the original and the fandom.

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The MCU does not crap on everything Batman. Again I have proven this Ledger logic before does not get you anywhere. The Dark Knight Rises has higher critical reception when you accumulate the average score than any MCU film. Even the best the genre has to offer Guardians 1 Thor Ragnarok, Winter Soldier, and Civil War do not beat it in reception. It beats them as a matter of fact. Therefore how did that happen? Ledger was not in The Dark Knight Rises.

This is where you will go it is overrated. Well is that all you need to do to prove your point? Sorry but I need more than just you saying that in order for it to have meaning. The Dark Knight Rises which did not have Ledger is better received than any MCU film critically.

Watchmen was a film you claimed was better than any of Nolan's Batman films. Yeah I am sorry not by any stretch of the imagination. Snyder the same director who did Sucker Punch Man of Steel, BVS, and Justice League? Are you starting to sense a pattern here? All of Snyder's films are not critically loved where as most of Nolan's films are. He goes on after TDK movies to do Dunkirk get back to me when Snyder puts out a film even a tenth as good as that film.


The Dark filter has nothing to do with the issue of the film. A film can be good no matter it's tone. Logan was a dark film but it got great reception critically. There are bad dark movies and good dark films. Same scenario for lighthearted films. As you just pointed out that the Thor films are bad and they are lighthearted.

Cinematography wise TDK is far superior to any Marvel film. Then explain how Blade Runner 2049 is better received critically than any other MCU film. I put more stock in the critics than you.

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"The MCU does not crap on everything Batman."

Yes, yes it does.

"Again I have proven this Ledger logic before does not get you anywhere. "

Everything you said is translated to "overrated", like I said.

"The Dark Knight Rises has higher critical reception when you accumulate the average score than any MCU film. "

IE, overrated.

"Watchmen was a film you claimed was better than any of Nolan's Batman films. Yeah I am sorry not by any stretch of the imagination. Snyder the same director who did Sucker Punch Man of Steel, BVS, and Justice League?"

Indeed. But that's your opinion. I do find the tone of the movie to be pretty damn well executed in Watchmen. Doing it for Batman v Superman [and to a certain extend MOS] didn't work. Same guy who did it, BUT 3 very different characters to use it on. It surelly didn't work for Superman.

"All of Snyder's films are not critically loved where as most of Nolan's films are"

so....? You saying Snyder doesn't have a vision? He does. His problem is he tries to do the same vision to everything. Which clearly doesn't work.

". He goes on after TDK movies to do Dunkirk get back to me when Snyder puts out a film even a tenth as good as that film. "

Dude... I don't care for Snyder.

"The Dark filter has nothing to do with the issue of the film. A film can be good no matter it's tone."

Tell that to Mos, BvS and JL.

"Logan was a dark film but it got great reception critically. "

Hated it.

"There are bad dark movies and good dark films."

Correct. Watchmen is a good dark movie. It fits it. BvS is terrible.

"Same scenario for lighthearted films. As you just pointed out that the Thor films are bad and they are lighthearted. "

The first 2 Thor movies are not as light-hearted as the 3rd. They took it way too seriously and they failed to deliver. The Dark World is everything but light hearted.

"Cinematography wise TDK is far superior to any Marvel film."

No... just no.

continues next

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"Then explain how Blade Runner 2049 is better received critically than any other MCU film. I put more stock in the critics than you. "

Then explain why Deadpool is better received critically than anything batman. I put more stock in good sense than you.

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Yes, yes it does.


Nope. You simply saying MCU craps on Batman films does not make it so. Critically TDK and TDKR beat MCU. That means more to me than box office.

IE, overrated.

As I said you simply saying it is overrated is nothing more than a subjective statement. I noticed you're full of those. Thing is with The Dark Knight Rises you do not have the Ledger death excuse. So other than saying it is overrated what else do you have to say to prove your point? If nothing then you are full of it.

Indeed. But that's your opinion. I do find the tone of the movie to be pretty damn well executed in Watchmen. Doing it for Batman v Superman [and to a certain extend MOS] didn't work. Same guy who did it, BUT 3 very different characters to use it on. It surelly didn't work for Superman.

Watchmen I found to be a boring POS! Yes it was visually pleasing but hollow just like all of Snyder's work. Also learn how to spell it is surely smart one.

Tell that to Mos, BvS and JL.

Yeah you know with Mos, BVS, and JL the whole reason the movie was poorly received was the filter. It was not the awful script, horrendous editing, overuse of cgi and green screen. Yep the filter is the only reason the films were trash. You dislike the filter so? I dislike the MCU's use of bland cinematography. Thing is even though I do not think they shoot their movies well I can still look and see the things they do well. You are completely subjective. Oh I dislike the filter therefore everything in this film is awful.

Hated it.

Does not matter if you liked Logan or not. That was not the point I was making. Logan was a critical success. It is better received critically than any MCU film this year. Proof a dark film can be on par with a lighthearted one and filter does not matter.

Correct. Watchmen is a good dark movie. It fits it. BvS is terrible.

Watchmen is merely okay in my book. BVS is in fact awful. Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises, X-men Days of Future Past, and Logan have terrific critical reception. All dark grounded gritty films. All those films are better critically received than Watchmen.

next post.




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The first 2 Thor movies are not as light-hearted as the 3rd. They took it way too seriously and they failed to deliver. The Dark World is everything but light hearted.

Um yeah I disagree. There are constant gags thrown in the first two Thor films. Kat Dennings is a one line spewing sarcastic quip machine in both films.


No... just no.

Believe it. Get back to me when any MCU film gets nominated or even considered for best cinematography. Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, and Road to Perdition all were nominated for best cinematography. No MCU has been and we are 17 films in. Blade Runner 2049 will get a nod for cinematography as well. Hold me to this.


Then explain why Deadpool is better received critically than anything batman. I put more stock in good sense than you.

Um? Deadpool is not received better critically than anything Batman? Are you blind or now just desperate? Or maybe you're choosing to live in denial?

You put more stock in good sense? Apparently not if you can not even crunch the numbers correctly. Batman Begins is the lowest rated of TDK trilogy and that still beats Deadpool critically in every sector.

Funny how people like you want to be taken seriously yet constantly spout subjective statements. Here is your method of argument. Why is the Dark knight critically better than any MCU movie? Oh it got a boost from Ledger's death. Okay then what about The Dark Knight Rises it is overrated. Seriously you are going to just say that and walk away? Provide a thought out reason.

That does not prove your point it is merely a label. I gave the MCU some credit while listing my issues with the films in general. I did not say oh they are terrible because they are lighthearted. I myself prefer the darker, grounded tone. Difference is just because stuff is not like that I do not immediately write it off.

If something is not light heart-ed and comedic it seems you completely write it off. Anyway do not ever be a lawyer or join a debate team you would be awful at it.

As it stands TDKR, and Spider-man 2 are better critically received than any MCU film to date. Yeah must have been Ledger's death that helped those huh...

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One of the greatest, I'd say. Burton and Donner are up there, too.

What's great about the Russos is their ability to handle numerous characters at once. I have every confidence that they will deliver the best Avengers film of the franchise. The Winter Soldier is still my favorite MCU film with Civil War and Avengers 1 close behind.

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Maybe I am missing something but I do not find the directing aspect to Civil War or Winter Solider to be that impressive. I do not find them to offer much artistic value either. Donner's Superman, Burton's Batman, Raimi's Spider-man films, and Nolan's Batman films all had strong artistic value for when they were made. The directing was actually special where as in MCU films the only one I feel where the directing stands out a tad more than normal is with Guardians of the Galaxy. Even with that it does not hold a candle to the other directors I listed above.

Civil War and Winter Solider are good movies but I personally did not think they were anything that spectacular. The thing about standing out is bringing something to the table. Also achieving strong artistic features for the time you were made in. Donner we have to thank really for starting the ball rolling on Superhero films in general.

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Donner's era was different. Though he did introduce some cool visual concepts [the blue light firing up into the sky, the way Superman flies... and has the most heart felt scene in the history of CBMs IMHO when Supes reacts with disbelief and anger to Lois' death], the visual departement has grown by leaps since then.

Burton also gave a unique POV to Bats world but kept him kitch and silly. Wouldn't work nowadays.

What the Russos did with Civil War is kind of unique not only for the use of the visual effects, but the scale they had to work with. Multiple characters with their own arc and reasons to be is pretty much a novelty in a CBM. Untill then it was 1 vs 1. There you have multiples and 3 main plots [Zemo's, Winter Soldiers' and the Avengers'] PLUS the introduction to 2 characters [BP and Spiderman]. And it worked wonders.

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The era is different but visually Civil War and Winter Soldier do not have anything groundbreaking. There are films out right now that pushed the envelope much further than those films did technically. Dawn of the Planet of the Apes and War of the planet of the apes have truly state of the art effects. Also a movie like Jungle Book has great cgi.

Sorry but I felt Spider-man was tacked on. Spider-man serves no purpose to the story of the film. He is glorified fan service. If you removed him the story would be no different. Black Panther is actually rather interesting. That character was done well. Multiple characters with their own arcs and reasons to be is a novelty for a comic book film? X-men came out in 2000. I am not saying X-men was perfect by any means but there were multiple X-men films before the MCU. So I can't agree when you say it was 1 vs 1 before these.

The difference is X-men was more grounded and the characters were all in the same aesthetic. With the MCU the characters are all in a different aesthetic. I get sick of the constant world building and sequel baiting though. It is saturation and I feel a standalone film that focuses on being a film first typically stands out more. Batman Begins is the prime example of being a solid standalone film. It actually in many ways is the perfect example of a reboot that gets almost everything right. It has that teaser at the end of it which is great but other than that the movie focuses on being a film first. With MCU there are so many sequel bating things it really does feel like a big budget tv show.

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X-men did quite well [the first one, don't care for the others that followed] when it comes to multiple characters, but in truth, with the exception of Magneto, Professor, Rogue [yukk] and Wolverine, you don't have information on who Ororo is, Scott, Toad etc. Civil War, coming from other movies had the chance to deepen the characters by virtue of putting them inside a particular POV for both the Sakovia Accords and Winter Soldier [team a vs Team b]. The X-Men only had 2 characters who disputed a POV [Professor and Magneto], the rest were just there [although the blue chick and Ororo do get to speak their mind, but with a rather zealot attitude]

Even Batman Begins had a 1 vs 1 motif [bats vs his mentor]. The difference being that it took more time on the character behind the Bat than the actual Bat.

Spiderman did the same thing.

Well, the MCU IS like a novela. "Stay tuned for the next episode". But it's a pretty good novela with some shitty episodes.

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That is my problem it is very much like a novela. It feels less cinematic. It has a ton of filler episodes that I do not ever care to revisit. Honestly I found X-men to be a series that shines well when it is good that is. The best X-men films are X-men, X-men 2, X-men First Class, X-men Days of Future Past, and Logan. Of course there are the awful entries, X-men 3, X-men Origins Wolverine, X-men Apocalypse, and The Wolverine is quite forgettable. Here is the thing X-men 3 did do the team A vs team B the movie just was not good but they did attempt that concept.

I feel like the truly crowning jewels are Days of Future Past and Logan. The issue I have with X-men 1 is I do not think it aged that great. The production value was good but nothing special, also the action was not anything mind blowing at the time. Casting was rather spot on though with the major screw up being Halle Barry as Storm. Days of Future Past has some rather striking visuals and it showed you can fix things if a sequel is done properly. It was a tough act to find actors who could fill Patrick Stuart and Ian Mckellen's shoes. I feel McAvoy and Fassbender do this with flying colors. That is why I think First Class was actually rather good as well.

Logan gives closure to a hero very nicely. It also had the guts to kill off a beloved hero. I think the MCU is terrified of closure.

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Why would they be terrified of closure? They want to milk the actors and characters for as long as possible. Which I would do the same thing if I were in their position. Why kill off what brings me money?

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Because the story wears out it's welcome. Nolan could have very easily kept on pumping out Batman films. They were still making loads of cash. He decided to hang it up. As a result his films don't suffer from saturation.

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No one is complaining the story wearying out, neither does the Box Office suggests this in the slightest....?

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Did you just bypass over the point I made? Oh and yeah I've heard complaints of the story running it's course. Box office is not an indication of quality obviously. Mcu is good but it's suffering from saturation. The dark knight trilogy ended and it easily could have kept going.

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No, I did not "bypass" anything, because the Box Office pretty much contradicts what you just said.

I also heard people saying they want the characters to die because it's "stakes". Which is a dumb assertion.

Nolan, like any movie director, doesn't want to be hung up with making one kind of movies. If you were him, you'd do the same thing.

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The public will eat it up because it's marketable. Look at the transformers franchise.

No mcu film will be ever as highly regarded as Donner's Superman
Or something
Like the dark knight. The reason is because they are more about doing what is safe and marketable then pushing the limits artistically
or taking risks. Sad thing is something like Blade Runner 2049 has much stronger artistic value than any mcu movie. Yet the public rejects it.

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DK is overrated.
If Ledger hadn't died, the movie would be forgotten

Next, you'll say BvS is a work of art.`

Blade Runner 49 is a needless sequel that no one asked for, therefore no one cares for it. Seen it, there's nothing new there.

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No not true. Batman Begins was already a critical smash before the Dark Knight came out. The Dark Knight was on track to be one of the biggest films of 2008 long before Ledger died. Cliche point by the way. Rather than come up with a legit complaint against the film you lean on that as your scapegoat. People are so tiring.


Blade Runner 2049 was a sequel which was great. No one expected it to be good it was just the world did not show up to support it. The scores for Blade Runner 2049 on Rottentomatoes, and Metacritic were excellent. The first Blade Runner bombed as well. It is simply because people do not want to think they prefer shutting off their brain when watching something.

A shame Blade Runner 2049 was a terrific film.

No BVS is a steaming pile of trash.

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What you call "cliche" is the truth. Ask anyone who doesn't care for Batman and you'll get the "meh" answer. Take it as you wish, even if it "tires" you.

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Nah sorry I do not buy it. The complaint is always the same. Oh The Dark Knight only got good reception because of Ledger's death. Then um what about Batman Begins? Ledger had nothing to do with that film yet at the time it was the most critically acclaimed Batman film ever made. Even surpassing Batman 1989. It also became considered one of the best comic book films ever It also was on the top 250 before The Dark Knight came out. People seem to have no problem remembering that one so um?

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"Then um what about Batman Begins? Ledger had nothing to do with that film yet at the time it was the most critically acclaimed Batman film ever made."

That's the point. I don't give 2 shits for Dark Knight. I don't care for the Joker. It got the "wow" factor due to Ledger's death which WB used to exaustion as marketing. Plus, if the dude never died he wouldn't get the apraisal he got afterwards.

I don't care if you buy it or not. You may want to defend it "to death" because.... reasons of fanboyism, but in all honesty, it aged badly, is boring, and drags as much as Watchmen did [and Watchmen is a better movie].

So yeah... take it as you will.

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It aged poorly? As opposed to what something like the Avengers? The cinematography is excellent and a lot of the film is done practically which always holds up better then something loaded full of cgi and green screen.

I do not buy into oh he wouldn't have gotten praise afterwards. You do not know that. You act as if that is some sort of indisputable fact. You can't prove that it is nothing more than your subjective opinion.

Watchmen a better film than the Dark Knight?Sorry that film was boring. Zack Snyder the same guy behind BVS Dawn of Justice?

The reception speaks for itself. Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises are way better received than Watchmen is. I do not think that is by accident.

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dude... the "dark filter a la Matrix" era is gone.

Avengers won't age well either. And I'm the one who says it constantly.

"I do not buy into oh he wouldn't have gotten praise afterwards. You do not know that. You act as if that is some sort of indisputable fact. You can't prove that it is nothing more than your subjective opinion. Do not care if you don't like the Joker everyone else does. He is after all Batman's most iconic villain."

You can't prove otherwise either, but that is the general opinion. So yeah.

Yes, Watchmen is a far better movie, with a tone that makes sense FOR THAT MOVIE. It doesn't work on anything else. It sure doesn't work on a movie with Superman in it. Emo, violent, brooding, whining superman? No thanks.

"The reception speaks for itself. Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises are way better received than Watchmen is. I do not think that is by accident. "

You want to compare Batman and the Joker's fame to an underground comic book such as Watchmen? LMFAO You drunk go home.

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I never said I could prove otherwise is the difference. You said it as if were an indisputable fact. It is not. I do not give a damn if it is the general opinion shared by disgruntled fans online. That does not mean it is correct. Since you can't prove it and I can not either it is a lame point. Make a better one.

What exactly is wrong with the tone? Oh brooding, realistic and dark is not a good fit for Batman? Yeah I believe Burton and Paul Dini have something to say about that. Read the Long Halloween. For Superman it does not make sense because the character is not emo dark and brooding. The character is suppose to be light dramatic and inspirational. Studios have the one size fits all mentality. They thought well that grounded dark realistic tone worked for Batman therefore it will work for Superman. Different characters.

I compared reception form Dark Knight trilogy, not fame. A film like Road to Perdition is a comic book film as is Sin City. None of those are anywhere close to being ad famous as Batman Begins. However in terms of critical reception they either are close or match Batman Begins. Watchmen comes nowhere close reception wise. Comprehend what you read next time. You are the one who is drunk.

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Here ya go buddy; just one example out of many from your friend Google:

https://www.quora.com/Is-The-Dark-Knight-overrated

Fact.

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And what does this prove? The disgruntled minority voicing how they think a film with high praise is overrated. Wow I have never in my wildest dreams seen that. You are playing as if that is the majority speaking. In the end what is the general reception?

It is highly rated on imdb. However since people will boost a films rating we can look to critical reception. The Dark Knight is one of the highest rated films on Rottentomatoes and metacritic.


Bottom line whether you like it or not that does not change how the majority views it. Even if you provide me the vocal minority. The Dark Knight trilogy was a critical smash success. So obviously the tone worked out for the majority. It may not have for you but it did for the rest of us.

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"Minority" is your denial kicking in. Which is fun.

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Denial? Lets look at the reception.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_dark_knight

http://www.metacritic.com/movie/the-dark-knight

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/awards

http://www.imdb.com/chart/top

No denial necessary. That would would be you my friend.

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http://www.superherohype.com/features/372133-the-highest-grossing-superhero-movies-of-all-time#/slide/1

Whooooooopsy XD

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The discussion was not highest grossing comic book film now was it? It was the reception. Nice attempt to side step what you originally claimed. This is cute keep digging yourself a deeper hole.

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B.O = reception.

Avengers is still the CBM with the most reception to this day. And the one who put the DCEU on their knees to the point of trying to imitate it.

In other words... it shits on your Batman movies.

This was fun though.

BillBrown already dismantled your hilarious claims [the ones you don't even have an answer for], I'm just taking the piss for my own amusement.

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Box office = reception? Since when? It is how successful a film is marketing wise. Transformers 3 and 4 made more than Batman Begins, and Iron Man does that mean they were better received?

Also if you adjust for inflation The Dark Knight is number 2.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

Thanks for the win though. Seriously valiant effort but victory goes to me. Marvel's the Avengers out grosses it but The Dark Knight becomes second. Just because a film out grosses another does not mean it was better received.

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Since ever. Transformer movies - no matter how atrocious they are - have people who go watch them, which in turn makes the studios pull out more movies out of their asses. If people weren't watching them the franchise would have died out [which is happening to the DCEU right now. Care to take a look at JL's revenue?]

Nice sidetrack there on the "inflation". How about you use the same thing for "Avengers" :) Still ahead isn't it?

No, thank you for the victory.

LOL

PS - By your logic, I still make a point calling DK what it is: overrated, after all... in your own words income doesn't equal reception. LoL. Nice try though.

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Except you are forgetting something. We also mentioned critical reception as well didn't we? What has better critical reception The Dark Knight or the Avengers?

It does not mean it was better received by fans just because it makes gobs of money. It means just that it made more money. imdb is a completely user based website. The Dark Knight is still rated higher than any MCU film. No MCU film stays on the top 250 long. Where as the Dark Knight trilogy does.

Nice attempt to side step and wiggle your way out of things. You lost get over it.

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Sure.

Btw, Ledger is dead. Won a posthumous prize. The movie got critical inflation after his death. Marketing 101.

You lost. Get over it.
Now reply to BillBrown. :)

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The Dark Knight Rises is rated higher than the Avengers as well critically. You should know how the rottentomatoe meter works.

Average score which is the accumulative average The Dark Knight Rises and the Avengers have virtually the same score.

In terms of average score it leans slightly to The Dark Knight Rises when you measure in top critics on rottentomatoes.

When you measure metacritic it again leans to The Dark Knight Rises. So even if I want to be liberal and say it is a tie. What is the excuse this time? You do not have the Ledger excuse to bail you out. When I referred to reception I was talking not just fans but critics as well.

I already replied to him smart one. Not my fault your comprehension skills are bad. Now go and finish your GED before posting again :)

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"The Dark Knight Rises is rated higher than the Avengers as well critically. "

Hence OVERRATED. :)

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In your opinion. The funny thing is you have nothing to bail your ass out. The Ledger excuse is gone. Nolan's critical acclaim is undeniable. Get back to me when any MCU film reaches the critical acclaim of Dunkirk.

Is there an excuse for that one's acclaim as well? You got your ass whooped now be gone.

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You are so cute when you are mad because people say DK is overrated.

Your tears are so yummy.

PS - DK is overrated. Get over it.

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[deleted]

Oh and yeah I've heard complaints of the story running it's course. Box office is not an indication of quality obviously


^^^^

Ok there so much wrong with these 2 statements I dont even know where to start but I'll...

First..."Oh and yeah I've heard complaints of the story running it's course".....This is called The MINORITY....

what you are referring to hearing is, The Minority, With any movie or anything in life, You'll never been 100% agreed upon.

Right now based on anyway you can possible judge movies, from reviews,ratings, Audiences Scores and Box office, The Overwhelming Majority is NOT growing tired of the story/stories in The MCU,when I say Majority, I mean like 90%+...If you look at the actual facts and stats, They Prove 90%+ are not growing tired of the story/stories.

Next, If there were absolutely any truth at all to your absurd claims that "Oh and yeah I've heard complaints of the story running it's course"....We would see in the results.

In the case of Cap 1,2,3....Thor 1,2,3..Iron Man 1,2,3...and GOTG 1 and 2....The All were MORE Successful than Previous films....thats unheard of....They all at least kept the same quality or Massively improved in quality....

If there was even a single shred of truth to what you are claiming....We would be seeing whats happening in The DCEU happening in The MCU....after MOS,BvS and SS....JL literally lost almost HALF its audiences....

BvS made 166 M on OW....JL made 94 Million.that unequivocally proves The The DCEU stories and direction "ran its course" that Audiences are already growing tired of the direction of The DCEU films Or at Least "Snyder's DCEU"

If that were the case in the MCU has your claiming....we would see it in results...

Thor 3 would NOT be the highest grossing Thor film....GOTG2 would NOT be more success than GOTG2...Spider-Man Homecoming would not be The most successful Spider-Man film in the last decade

Other Films like Doctor Strange and Ant-Man Wouldn't have been Huge HIts

Next PosT

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there is ZERO indication that Audiences are growing Tired of The MCU story.....at least not based The Majority.....

again If you want to point out a small Minority, like less than 10%...fine...But you can do that With Any movie...Even The most acclaimed movies are always going to have a small minority that doesn't like them

right now...there truly is not 1 single thing you can point to suggests "Audiences are growing tired of the MCU or its Story"...In fact all stats and datas points to the opposite....

The Avengers IW is the culmination of the entire MCU, all 17 films, IW Will bring the entire story together and bring it to an end...If you there any truth to your claims, THe Avengers IW is the perfect example to show it....

If Audiences truly are "Growing tired of The Story/Stories" Then it should show most in The Avengers IW where the story culminates and comes full circle....The Avengers IW should be LOSING Interest if your claims are true...But Instead Hype has never been bigger....

I'm sorry But there is just no evidence that remotely backs up your claims, Instead there is UNDENIABLE proof you are wrong.....Every MCU films Grows in BOx office, Is more successful than The Previous film(Proving not only do audiences still like the story but Audiences are Growing) Each MCU films continues to get Good to Great reviews, Great Audiences Score, Proving the quality of the films are still very high....

you can not say "Oh and yeah I've heard complaints of the story running it's course" and state it like a Universally shared opinion....because its not

what You can say is "I'm getting tired of the story, Its ran its course, I've talked to some others too who feel the same"...You can give your opinion, But you can't try and make your Opinion the Majority Consensus.

You feel the story has ran its course...thats fine, But your opinion is not shared by the Majority, In fact your opinion is part of a very small, almost non existent minority...

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Next we get to..."Box office is not an indication of quality obviously"


True....But Great Reviews,Great Audience Scores,Great Word of Mouth and Great Holds from Week to Week are....and Nearly all The MCU films fit into these categories...

lol I love when people make the Transformers Comparisons, You Embarrassingly did....I get it, its a good example of Films that clearly aren't good making Tons of Box office....You use the Transformers example in an attempt to suggest "Box office doesnt equal quality"

But like you and everyone else who embarrassingly using the Transformers Example, you fail to do one very important thing.....Stop and think!

To use the Transformers Example, You need to COMPARE, you need to have similarity...In order for The Transformers comparison to be used...The film/films your comparing it to needs to have similar results...

The Transformers films got AWFUL reviews, Got terrible Audiences scores, didn't have good legs at the box office...NOT 1 DAMN thing points to them being quality films....therefor, Its perfectly fine to say "Box office doesn't equal quality when it comes to the Transformers films", these films made a ton of Money despite NOT Being good movies....

but Literally NONE of that Applies to The MCU films....The Transformers Films literally have NOTHING to common With The MCU films....

The could not be different in terms of Quality,Reviews and Ratings...

THe MCU Films All Received good to great reviews, all received good to great Audience Score, Most have had above average Holds and LONG runs at the box office proves WOM is great, Some even make The "Top 10 Best movies of the year" lists....

so again I say "ya Box office doesn't equality" but when you have films That receive Positive ratings in every possible that judges Quality....When you have a film that Gets Great Reviews,Great Ratings,Great Audience Scores and then has Great Box office, You have A Unquestioned QUALITY FILM...

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if the MCU had "Similarity to The Transformers films" then ya you could then Claim "Box office doesn't equality...."

But I dont see Anyone claiming "Hey This MCU film made Great Box office, therefor is a great movie"....lol They just dont need to, box office doesnt prove the MCU films are good...The stats do, The Data do...Box office only proves The MCU films are successful.....The Great Reviews,Great Ratings and Great Scores prove the MCU films are quality films


but seriously nice try....

PS, Hilariously everything you said Applies to DCEU films NOT MCU...

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Where did I say the majority was tired of the MCU films? It is quite obvious the majority is not tired of it. Proof of that is how successful the films are. When I said I have heard people of course I am referring to the minority. The way you were presenting it was as if everyone was all in for the MCU films. I myself like them but I think it is suffering from saturation. I do not find Civil War or Winter Soldier to be this game defining cinema game changer like certain other people do. Films which are much better made do not get the attention. Blade Runner 2049 has much more artistic value than any MCU film. Yet you see the world rejected it.

If you want to talk reception. No MCU film can top The Dark Knight or Spider-man 2 critically. So the majority of critics do agree that the MCU films are not the best the genre has to offer. Donner's Superman is remembered more fondly as well.

I do not believe Infinity War will be the end. They are playing it like it will be but it will not be. You think with Black panther coming in and Ms Marvel around the corner they are going to pull the plug? Maybe for certain characters but not the MCU as a whole. I like it better when stories are self contained I am burnt out on the whole team up thing. Logan I found to be the best comic book film this year because it focused on being a film first rather than world building.

next post.

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The Transformers example works perfectly. You say the first one did not have legs? Um yeah not true. The first Transformers made 700 million dollars at the box office. That is more than Batman Begins, Superman Returns and Iron Man. It made more than all of those despite all three of those having much better reception. Also the second Transformers got dreadful reviews. The third and fourth were back to back billion dollar hitting films. Point is they are marketable and word of mouth obviously did nothing to hurt those films. So when you say it had no legs are you delusional?

The DCU is a joke that we can agree on.

The MCU has good reception is the difference. However even if you want to factor in data here the MCU is far from the top. All of the Dark Knight trilogy is in the top 250 of imdb with great critical reception and scores on Rottentomatoes and Metacritic. No MCU film to date comes close to matching the critical reception of the Dark Knight. Even Spider-man 2 is more critically acclaimed than any MCU film to date. So since we are using data lets go there. The data proves that Nolan's films are better made films than anything the MCU has to offer. Which is why The Dark Knight mops the floor with the them when measuring data.

Seriously nice try though....

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"However even if you want to factor in data here the MCU is far from the top. All of the Dark Knight trilogy is in the top 250 of imdb"


You mean from a site where fanboys give 1 and 10 stars even before watching a movie? Wow... so much awesomeness.


DK is overrated. Get over it.

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Funny then with the amount of people who saw the Avengers and MCU films shouldn't that apply to those films as well? After all according to you box office=reception. If that is the case why is the Avengers, Iron Man, The Avengers, Captain America Winter Solider, Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain America Civil War and Spider-man Homecoming absent from the list? The only one currently on the list is Thor Ragnarok. No MCU films stays on the top 250. Batman Begins is over a decade old and has a secure spot on there.

Typical Marvel fanboy logic. MCU will never be considered as good as game changing comic books films which came before it. Spider-man 2 mops the floor with any MCU film to date. I guess that must be overrated also right?

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MCU raped both Batman trilogy and the DCEU, dude. Box Office is right there. Multi-Billion dollars of revenue right there. Everyone and their grannies are waiting for the next MCU movie. Proof? Box Office dude. It's right there.

Keep crying, Im loving it.

PS - DK is overrated. :)

PS2 - "MCU will never be considered as good as game changing comic books films which came before it. Spider-man 2 mops the floor with any MCU film to date. I guess that must be overrated also right? "

You seem to forget the DCEU attempted to be as the MCU and fell on its ass. How's that Justice League going? XD

RIP DCEU.

PS3 - thanks for showing your true colors DCEU fanboy.

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LMAO!Box office I do not care about. Just because a film out grosses another does not mean it is considered better. That is how pathetic you are. You are so desperate and salty that your MCU films are not at the top you cling to that because that is all you have. Critical reception goes further than box office for me.

You can take box office the critics and people who know film and will take quality.

Got anything else to argue other than box office?

Since when do I care about the DCU? Man of Steel was bland, BVS Dawn of Justice an atrocity, Suicide Squad bad and I have not seen Justice League because I refuse to. Wonder Woman I saw that was good. It was the only good film in the DCU thus far.

I am glad the DCU is bombing to be honest. The Dark Knight trilogy was great. after Nolan left and you let Snyder take control yikes you get disasters.

The only character that should continue is Wonder Woman and only in solo films. No more team up movies for DCU they crapped the bed.

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Yeah way to make an assumption. I have not liked a DC film since Nolan left with the exception of Wonder Woman. I liked Wonder Woman the rest have been utter trash. Man of Steel was trying to be Batman Begins more so than an MCU film. They tried to make Nolan's style mixed with MCU's team up and it fell flat on it's ass.

The MCU is better than the DCU not because of box office but look at critical reception. The critical reception of the MCU destroys the DCU. The only film that can compete against the MCU is Wonder Woman. Ahem which was the case with TDK trilogy it beats the MCU critically. See I am consistent. critical reception and actual data>>>box office all day everyday.

Spider-man 2 is my personal favorite comic book film. I think it is better than any MCU film. It mops the floor with all of them critically. So um what was that about me being a DC fanboy again? Learn your place MCU fanboy.

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Calm down Shaniqua. You're about to pop up a vein.

PS - DK is overrated. :)

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I'm actually fine. Beating people with intellect and education is far more satisfying than trolling. Now I'm waiting for the original poster to respond. If you can't come up with any other argument other than a subjective statement then that confirms you have conceded. So anything else or is it just going to be dark knight is overrated?

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"If you can't come up with any other argument other than a subjective statement then that confirms you have conceded. So anything else or is it just going to be dark knight is overrated? "

No need. I already beat you. DK is overrated. An MCU trailer killed DCEU. "dark filter" DC "dark filter" movies are gone. Avengers is the highest grossing CBM movie ever. And you are mad as all hell while pretending not to be a DCEU fan.

Your tears are so tasty.

PS - DK is overrated. :)


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How exactly did you win? You're banking all on box office. That doesn't represent a quality film. We argued reception of critics and fans.

Critically dark knight is unmatched by any mcu film. Spider-man 2 is also higher received than any mcu film critically.

That was the point and I won. Lol I love it because with Spider-man 2 there is no Ledger scapegoat. You are such a mcu fanboy it makes me chuckle.

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still whining I see. XD

You popped a vein didn't you?

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Translation no argument so now I am going to troll.

How come Spider-man 2 is unmatched critically? Any excuse for why mcu can't match that?

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You do realize Spiderman is a Marvel character.... right?

So... he is better than DK [which is overrated]

So... hooray for Marvel. XD

Keep whining. XD

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Oh gee that just barely dawned on me I totally missed the Marvel logo at the beginning of the film... Spider-man was owned by Sony at that time smart one. Unlike you I am not brand biased.

I have no issue thinking Spider-man 2 is better. It's my favorite comic book film. I find TDK to be terrific even though I like Spidey 2 better.

Bottom line both of those are better than any mcu film and the critical reception proves that.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXffdFy0Wn4

it should be neck a neck. And it's NOT neck a neck. It's neck and BOTTOM OF YOUR FREAKING ANUS. That's-that's what it is right now. I mean it's just NO COMPETITION. Marvel is wiping the floor with DC. There's no way around it. Just is. Critics; Audiences; Box Office: BOOM! You can't deny it. You can like Justice League like I do, but you can not deny Marvel is ABSOLUTELY wiping the floor with
DC

Signed:

John Campea December 12th, 2017


PS - next you'll say that Sony created Spiderman. XD


PS2 - TDK is overrated

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In case you're too dense this is the one I was replying to.

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dude.... seriously, you are the most clueless, whining idiot I ever come across the internet.

Congratafuckinglations.

XD

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ok....I think you and I both are arguing for No reason...Because you just agreed with damn near everything I said and after reading this I agree with everything you said....

I see your arguing with other posters about The TDK and SM2...you will get no argument from me...those 2 films are among the greatest CBMs ever made, and the facts do back you up when you say ". No MCU film to date comes close to matching the critical reception of the Dark Knight. "....although I think your slightly exaggerating, I would argue at least a few MCU have gotten CLOSE or are at least in the same ballpark, But you are correct in saying based on Reviews and receptions, BOTH TDK and SM2 are Higher Rated than any MCU film...I have no problem admitting that, I'm not sure why others are arguing but IT IS FACTS.

When You said "Box Office Doesn't equal Quality" and compared it to Transformers, I thought you were Literally trying to argue The MCU are bad and You dont care what the reviews says, But based on your reply its looks like you are not saying that at all...It looks Like your completely admitting The MCU got good to Great reviews, are quality films, but NONE have reached the Critical Reception of TDK and SM2....if thats the case, Then were in complete agreement...

Your Transformers Comparison still doesn't apply to The MCU films though...

The Transformers films are Unquestionable Bad films that still made a Ton of money...There is not 1 thing you can point to to prove A Transformer film is Good....

that is not the case with MCU films, While they may not have the critical reception of TDK or SM2, Some have Excellent to great Reviews, Great ratings and scores that Unequivocally Prove they are Good to great films.

you can not say "Transformers made 1 Billion" that doesn't Mean its a good movie and then apply that to ANY OF the MCU films....because NONE of the MCU got even close to the awful Reception with Critics or audiences...

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The ONLY thing that makes the Transformers films successful is box office ....

The MCU films are Successful in All Regards, Reviews Rating Audiences Scores and box office...

To use the Transformers Example...You would Need A Similar Movie With Similar results, A MOvie that Also got Bad reviews, got Scores, but ONLY susceeded because of Box office....

also Only While I 1000% agree With everything you said about TDK, You are stretching it with Batman Begins and TDKR...

If you want to argue TDK trilogy as a whole Is The greatest trilogy ever, or the best CBMs ever produced...theres facts to back that up

but this statement you made is not backed up by facts..." The data proves that Nolan's films are better made films than anything the MCU has to off"

^ this is not true....This is True for TDK.....but not for Batman begins and TDKR, they are Great Films, but the data does not put them in the same league as TDK...

The Data puts Batman Begins and TDKR is the same With truly Great CBMs and some of those great CBMs are MCU films like Iron Man, The Avengers, GOTG, Civil War and a few others....

Iron Man, The Avengers, GOTG, Civil War,Batman Begins and TDKR if you look at all facts are nearly identical...They are all among The Best CBMs ever but as you pointed out slightly under movies like TDK and SM2...

So Your right about TDK, and maybe even If you look at Nolans TDK trilogy as whole....But your are just wrong about BB and TDKR....There are a number of MCU films that equaled the quality of those 2 films.

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"I do not believe Infinity War will be the end."

Its not going to be the end, Its going to be the culmination and A changing of the guard going forward....

I dont know why you wouldnt believe things are going to massively change...for 1, There are Several Leading actors that contracts are up, Like Hemsworth and Evans, whos gone on record saying there not coming back....

Things are going to Massively change. Marvel Studios Will have to focus on much different characters after IW

PS...One then I've always hated was The Ledger Argument...I hate that people try to discredit the film by saying its overrated because of his death...The facts are Ledger Gave An All time Career defining Performance that would have been Equally Loved and Praised even if he lived, in fact it would have problem been more Praised because Ledger would have probably Reprised the role Many Times in Future films...

TDK and Ledgers Performance were Just that Great...Ledgers Death may have added something to Box office, who knows how much, probably not a LOT...But The film itself and Ledgers Performance would have made close to 1 Billion and still got the praise it got even if he lived....

For Marvel Fans, this is their one moment where they stoop to Hardcore DC fans levels, Hardcore DC stoop to extremes lows not to except The Success of the MCU films

and In this one case, Marvel Fans do it with TDK...and they do it because as you point out, TDK truly is the cream of the crop, and they just cant except it....

I think the meat of your argument though is...The MCU films are NOT Game changing and artistic has movies like TDK,SM2 and Bladerunner...Your not arguing they bad movies like Transformers...If this is the case then I completely agree...The MCU films are CBMs, Good fun CBMs, Some are Very Good, But not game changers or deep Oscar , Artistic movies...

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I must say you have more sense than I thought. When I used Transformers as a means to point at box office I was not saying the MCU was anywhere near the same quality as those movies. MCU has good reception where as Transformers does not.

My problem is though when people point to oh well it made more money than any of those films you mentioned. That does not mean that because it made more money that it was received better. All of TDK trilogy is on the top 250 of imdb. No Transformers film, Titanic, Avatar or any MCU movie is. If an MCU movie makes it it does not stay there long.

Now am I saying imdb's rating system is flawless absolutely not. Point I am making is Batman Begins has been on the top 250 in a secure spot for years. I remember it being on there before The Dark Knight was ever made.

Next post.



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The reason I used TDKR as an example is because as you just pointed out people are in love with pulling out an excuse for TDK's success. The most popular excuse ever is Ledger's death.

So that is why I say okay then if you look at TDKR it beats any MCU movie critically. Now is it leaps and bounds ahead like TDK is no. However TDKR has a slightly higher average score than any MCU movie to date. That includes Iron Man, The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain America Winter Soldier, Captain America Civil War and Thor Ragnarok.

So even with TDKR not being received as well as TDK it still has the slight edge when measuring the data. So if that has the slight edge than it is quite obvious TDK has quite a big of an edge on the MCU. I have no issue if someone wants to argue MCU movies against TDKR or BB after all it is rather close. My problem is how it is done. Not once have I disrespected the MCU they have some good films without a doubt. MCU fans all the time disrespect the Nolan films and then get pissed off if you prefer them over the MCU.

To be honest in terms of artistic value I do not think any MCU movie did match BB or TDKR. The thing about both of those is they both have excellent cinematography. The only film in the MCU that I thought had better than average cinematography was Guardians of the Galaxy. The rest of them have amateur pedestrian servicable cinematography.

Now do I think Avengers, Iron Man, Winter Soldier, Civil War and Thor Ragnarok are solid in their own ways for sure. I am big on cinematography I guess maybe it is just me. I get how someone would prefer them. Cinematography is not eveything so yeah I will concede that you can argue some of those against BB and TDKR.

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Yes amen to you on the Ledger death. I hate that so bad! It is a way to discredit the film, as I said it is their favorite scapegoat. TDK was on track to be a big movie before he died. It was a summer movie with Batman and Joker in it. If people think that would have tanked they are only deluding themselves. Ledger's death helped the box office but they act like that is the only reason they saw it.

Here is the thing TDK is not even my favorite comic book film. That would be Spider-man 2. However TDK is probably number two on my best comic book movie list. Even though I prefer Spider-man 2 I do not discredit TDK or any MCU movie honestly because a lot of them I have thought were solid films and I have thoroughly enjoyed them.

I am also a DC fan but I am not delusional. The DCU has been a garbage shoot. Man of Steel was bad and what followed was actually far worse. Just because I love DC does not mean I am going to defend a terrible film because it has the DC logo on it. I care about a movie being good I am not biased towards a brand. I did not give a damn about Iron Man before it came out saw the movie and it was incredible. RDJ was some of the best casting in superhero film history.

Yep that is exactly what I am saying. They have good films but not anywhere like Blade Runner, Spider-man 2 or TDK.

Now let me get on my personal soap box for just a sec next post.



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MCU fans like to act as if there are no duds in the MCU. There are a few in my opinion. Iron Man 2, Avengers Age of Ultron and Thor the Dark World. You could not pay me to sit through those films again.

Thor the Dark World I found to be so dull to sit through. Man of Steel was a very anticipated film of mine. I will be the first to admit it was a letdown. However honestly when comparing Man of Steel and Thor the Dark world they honestly are not worlds apart in terms of quality in my opinion.

Do not get me wrong Man of Steel is a bad film. I honestly think MCU fans let a film like that slide because of how good the MCU is as a whole. Man of Steel gets no slack whatsoever because what followed was BVS, Suicide Squad, and Justice League. I do not think it should get slack to be completely clear I am saying that is why it does not.

Now all of what followed Man of Steel with the exception of Wonder Woman was far worse than even the duds of the MCU. All I am saying is Thor the Dark World and Man of Steel are pretty close in quality. Even look at the critical reception. Almost identical.

Wonder Woman is the only legitimately good film in the DCU. The rest have sucked.

The other thing is I do not think they give enough credit to the X-men series. There are duds in that franchise as well but look at some of those.

X-men Days of Future Past and Logan can hold their own reception wise against any MCU movie. Logan is personally my favorite comic book film this year. I feel that Superman the movie does not get enough love either. That would most certainly crack my top 5 of best superhero films.

Blade Runner 2049 is my favorite film this year. I tend to lean on the films that totally floor me with visuals cinematography and a deeper meaning. A shame that movie bombed I am still so salty about that. As a fan of Blade Runner I was floored by that sequel. A sequel that should not have worked but somehow did.

In the end thanks for being a mature person man. I totally agree with you. thankfully you are way more mature than TwistedAcrobat.

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Donner showed us all it was possible. Aside from being an incredibly ambitious film you must examine the artistic merits. The visuals for the time were amazing. Him flying with Lois Lane is a constantly remembered and referenced scene. The ability to capture all those elements of Superman back in the day with all the limited technological resources was spectacular. We also can not forget about that oh so memorable Superman soundtrack. That is another thing that goes unnoticed a lot original score. Donner's Superman remains the best Superman film to date and a lot of plot points are being replicated even today.

Burton's Batman brought darkness to the genre. Donner's Superman while being great had great dramatic moments but was by nature a light hearted uplifting film. After Burton's Batman tons of films followed suit by being dark and gritty. The Crow, Blade etc. It inspired Paul Dini's Batman which you could argue represents the character better than anyone. The cast was good it definitely relied more on style than substance but the Danny Eflman score was solid as well.

Raimi's Spider-man showed studios superheroes could be big business again. Signature moments stand out. Everyone remembers the upside down kiss that is a staple moment not just in superhero films but in cinema in general. That train action sequence was mind blowing and amazing cgi at the time. Not to mention another winning score by Elfman.

What does Civil War and Winter Soldier do that is so mindblowing? The aesthetic is boring and cinematography is dull. Civil War looks like dried cement. Effects while competent are nothing revolutionary. Planet of the apes films have way stronger technical aspects. The cgi in those films is amazing. Nothing done in Civil War was all that groundbreaking. Music is very forgettable. Everything is about buildup to the next film rather than telling a self contained story. The team up thing and heroes vs each other has been done far before any MCU film was made.

The MCU feels like a big budget tv show rather than motion pictures. That is kind of a bummer. Logan was a solid film and the best comic book film this year because it focused on being a film first rather than sequel building. Now look I like MCU but I found Guardians of the Galaxy to be better than Winter Soldier and Civil War. I like Civil War and Winter Soldier I just do not think they are game changers like Superman the movie and others I have mentioned.

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The weird looking sped up choppy forget-physics style that the Russo Bros use for all their action scenes keeps me from ever enjoying their films.

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They have a shot at it. Let's wait for IW and make judgment then.

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Actually, I think the best CBM director of all time is Zack Snyder. ;-)

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