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My preferred version of season 8 (for Fun only)

posted 6 years ago by arflexit (2376)
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So this is going be a long read. This is only for fun and some closure. My version will have 8 episodes but tries to have a similar ending but with some major 'fixes'. I have 2 alternate endings, one closer to the show and one that is mostly happy. If you feel up to reading let me know what you think.

Episode 1: Relatively the same but an additional 30 minutes added; more tension between Sansa and Dany feeling more alienated by everyone but Jon. This is important because she will start to rely on him more and more for emotional support. Jon finds out from Bran and Sam about his parentage (scene can be almost the same) but there is still 30 more minutes left of this episode. Right around this time Varys receives a letter from Littlefinger (who is still alive but escaped to Bravos using the faceless men because littlefinger would not go out like he did in season 7). The letter reveals Jon's parentage, which Littlefinger knew all along. Littlefinger returns to King’s Landing and offers information on Sansa, Jon and the north to Cersei. She then hires Bronn to Kill Jon, Dany and Tyrion, not Jaime because if she wanted him dead the Mountain would have done it.

Episode 2: As the north continues to prepare for the Battle Jaime arrives and the trial scene happens. It is relatively the same but Bran does more to defend Jaime as well as Brienne and Tyrion. Dany is much more aggressive in this scene especially Jon stands up to her saying the only thing that matters is the battle to come. Dany wants to talk to Jon after the scene but he leaves without another word. Varys confronts Jon in this episode and more in a more subtle manner begins to show support for Jon and suggests he tell Dany. Before he does is confronted by Sansa and Arya about his support for Dany; they are reluctant to trust her (before the battle not after), Jon affirms his full support of Dany, Bran is there and Jon gives him a look saying do not tell. Sansa notices the look, and begins to question it specifically Jon furiously leaves. and goes to the crept to see his mother's statue. This is when the scene when Jon reveals the truth to her. She questions it more about where he got the information, Jon notices the paranoia and reassures her the battle to come is all that matters now, and if it is true they will deal with it after. The episode ends when Tormund and Edd arriving saying the night king will be there before the end of tomorrow; at that moment a large snow storm starts to form as the white walker theme starts to play in the background).

Episode 3: Still battle preparations and escape plans are drown up. But at the same time Varys begins making more subtle moves to get more support for Jon. Jon discusses his parentage with Bran and what to do about it, Bran says it is your choice; but both Arya and Sansa are listening in. In Kings landing the Gold Company arrives and Euron makes more moves on Cersei. Cersei and Qyburn discuss the new improved scorpions and the best way to utilize them, Qyburn and Littlefinger are now both Cersei advisers, Littlefinger knows that he ‘lost’ to Bran in Winterfell but is beginning a new plan, he discusses Bran with Qyburn and they discuss the nature of the Dead army and the magic. Qyburn suggest there may be a way to control the army of the dead, like he does with the Mountain. Littlefinger suggest he has a concept for tricking Bran, by making him see things that aren’t true. That night Cersei does take Euron to bed as the snow begins to fall hard on King's Landing. Back in Winterfell Sansa and Dany have another falling out scene in which Sansa shows more distrust and distain for Dany. Tyrion confronts her after this is when she reveals the truth about Jon. Tyrion and Varys have the discussion about Jon right before going in for the battle planning scene, Tyrion suggest Marriage for them to cement the alliance Varys agrees it would be a good idea but would Dany agree to it. The battle plan is significantly different as the tactics they use are not utterly retarded and Bran is not used as bait but reveals he is going to worg into multiple animals and give updates on the dead and white walkers specific locations for where to aim the trebuchets and it is decided because of the snow storm the dathraki horde would be useless so they send them south. After the battle plan, Tyrion sits down with Bran. Varys informs Sansa and Arya that littlefinger is still alive and back with Cersei. Arya realizes that this could have only been done with the help of the faceless men. Small details remain the same in this episode to episode 2; such as Brienne getting knighted and the small character interactions. Melisandre arrives this episode and as Davos and Jon confront her in raged at her return, she says save it for the dead have arrived at which time the horns blow and the dead arrive.

Episodes 4 through 8 in next posts...

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Episode 4: The battle of Winterfell; but not so dark you can’t see what is going on. For this the Majority of the Army is inside the walls. Since the dathraki are not there, the stupid suicide charge does not happen. Because of the storm they are having difficulty lighting the arrows and trebuchet oil drums. This is when Melisandre does her fire trick. And she does the fire trick as well with the trench. Bran using the ravens reports back that only the wraiths have appeared so far, no walkers and no Night King/Dragon. The share numbers of the dead are piling up the walls and the living are dropping oil drums on them. Dany and Jon and on the dragons Burning the dead but they do so in single attacks. One attack and then back behind the walls. They do this to avoid Ice spears which proved very affective. On one of the attacks the night king and dragon attack Jon and Rhaegal, injuring Rhaegal. Dany comes to the rescue and the scene of the dragon battle happens similar to what the show gave us. After night king, Jon and Dany are all off the dragons the undead Viserion breaches the wall. Bran asks to be brought to the weirwood tree as multiple dead giants and hordes of undead men and animals begin to poor through, but the fire and unsullied prove effective. Until the night king and white walkers appear and the fires start to go out and the night king raises the dead again. Melisandre feels her powers failing. The women and children, Sansa Tyrion and Sam are all NOT in the crypt because that would be stupid. They are in the main hall, Tyrion suggest they begin to flee through the hidden tunnels Sansa steps up and leads them out. Sam elects to stay and decides he will fight as best he can. Lyanna Mormont does get killed by the last standing Ice giant but instead of it bringing her up to its face for no reason she gets him with a knife throw to the eye. Undead Viserion starts to burn inside of the castle. ...

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

The scene of Jon running past everyone is mostly the same and dodging the dragon fire is almost the same but this time instead of just yelling at it; Jon is able to take advantage of the injuries that Undead Viserion had and use his valerian steel sword to kill it. Jorah dies protecting Dany similar to the show version. Melisandre retreated to the god’s wood with Bran. Theon dies similarly but his death is not in vain because as he was charging it gave Jon, Jaime, Brienne, the hound, Edd, Beric, Tormund, and Arya arrive. Jon and Night King stare down again and then NK looks at Bran and begins to move forward. Melisandre tells Jon to stab her in the heart, Jon hesitates as she bares her breast and say do it, the lord of light demands it. Jon reluctantly does it and then all the Valerian steel weapons burst aflame with a bright beaming fire. That light up the sky. The night kind hesitates at seeing this, he then send his walkers forward and there is a great skirmish, in which many of the white walkers are killed as is Edd and Killed Tormund is severely wounded as is Brienne by the night king himself. Jon and Jaime step in and begin to fight the night king. But they are still no match for him. They stab him several times but Jaime is thrown back next to Bran and Jon is thrown to the ground the night king grabs Jon and drags him over to Bran, Jaime tries again to save Bran and stabs the night king through the side with the sword but the night king is still unfazed and throws Jaime back again. Jon is being held down by NK’s foot as he looks at Bran now. He wants Jon to see his failure. This is when Arya comes out of the Shadow and does her knife trick with a flaming valerian steel dagger. The night king does not shatter right away but the army of the dead does...

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

At this time Bran reaches on and puts his hand on the NK’s back as he is kneeling down and the night king transforms back into a human form looks at Bran first with rage on his face but then it calms as his eyes return to normal and dies from the wounds he sustained. There is no half assed contrived nonsense about how it was always meant to be Arya, she just happens to be the one to get in on the needed opening provided by the combined efforts of everyone. End of episode 4

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Episode 5: The clean-up happens about the same, but the feast after is much more somber. Dany does offer Storms End to Gendry but does not legitimize him yet. She offers it for his support in the war to come against Cersei. Gendry goes to see Arya and he suggest they continue their relationship, doesn’t propose like an idiot. Arya does say “that’s not me” and says she still has unfinished business with the queen. The hound and Sansa scene goes slightly different but the idea is the same. The hound is less nasty and Sansa confronts him the fact that under the harsh crude exterior he is more of a knight than most she has meet. With Beric being dead the hound is somewhat lost on what to do next, Beric had convinced him to do something good and better with his life and after helping the living in the battle he regresses and wants revenge. Jon and Dany continue to be on the outs with each other, neither Dany nor Jon are comfortable; him because of her being his Aunt and she is not comfortable with the possibility that he is actually ‘Aegon Targaryen’ and possibly has a better claim then she. He tries to reassure her that he will not break his word to her, he will talk about Aemon and that he gave up his claim to the thrown and Jon says he doesn’t have to embrace a throne he has no interest in, but he will stay loyal to her. She is not reassured and walks out. Brienne and Jaime do not have a romantic relationship but he visits her as she is healing, currently she is so badly hurt she cannot yet walk (yes some of the survivors had more than just some scratches on their faces) Sam is also there having lost half his foot and several fingers.

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Grey Worm is being visited by Missandei, he lost an eye. Jaime is able to walk but is pretty injured too, after visiting Brienne he meets with Tyrion and they decide to go get drunk. Bronn arrives and request an audience with Tyrion. The next morning Bronn is ‘on trial’ tells them why he is there but that he doesn’t believe that supporting Cersei will payoff he reminds Jaime and Tyrion of how much they owe. Dany wants him put to death but Tyrion, Jon, Sansa, and Jaime all protest. This is a tense scene in which Dany is becoming more seemingly bitter and enraged. The episode ends with Dany demanding they go and attack Kings landing now. Sansa and Arya confront Jon about his lineage and push him to take his claim and overrule her because she is so angry she is not thinking clearly anymore. Jon says he will not, because he already renounced his claim to her. The episode ends with Arya leaving with the hound, not because she is abandoning her family but because of littlefinger and the faceless men being involved in his escape. She says she owes the many faced god a life still. end of episode 5

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Episode 6: Everyone is preparing to leave, Jon pets ghost. Tormund is going to the castle black with the wildings; they use that as their home while they get there new lands south of the wall together. There is no night’s watch anymore. Jon asked Tormund to take Ghost with him; as he doesn’t want him hurt anymore in the war to come. Drogon and Rhaegal are hurt but able still. Dany leaves on her own with Jon; but she is not ambushed by The Iron Fleet but the unsullied fleet is. Missandei is captured but it is shown how, specifically because a majority of the forces that were injured such as grey worm travelled with Jon and the northern army to meet up with the dathraki horde that is mostly still in tacked. Missandei’s ship was captured but the ship Varys and Tyrion were on escapes. Euron delivers Missandei to Cersei, she tells him she is pregnant, noticeably not showing any signs yet after she told Jaime she was pregnant months ago. Jon arrives at dragon stone and updates the location of the army and the preparation for the siege. Dany suggest there will be no need because she has dragons. Varys exchanges looks with Jon, Tyrion suggests allowing Jaime to try to talk to Cersei; Dany says no more talking. Varys reminds Dany Cersei has the scorpions and Missandei. Dany sends in Jaime with the terms of surrender she will accept or Dany will burn the Red keep with her inside. After the meeting Varys talks to Jon and suggest he take his claim because Dany is too aggressive, Varys talks to Tyrion as well and says they should not be having to try to talk Dany out of killing thousands of innocents as a result of the collateral damage...

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Episode 7: The battle for the Iron Throne. It is not so one sided, Jon and Dany both attack the Iron fleet with Dragons (scorpions have a hard time hitting both of them) as the siege outside begins. Euron hits Rhaegal, but Jon completes the attack and burn Euron. The iron fleet is burned (included Euron) they head to the gates and begin burning it. The gold company and lannisters are inside the gates but several of the wild fire stashes go off killing many. Dany is further enraged by this. Rhaegal is hit with more scorpions forcing him to land and he dies. Dany breaks down at this point and heads to the red Keep. inside the keep Cersei the mountain, Qyburn Jaime and Littlefinger. The hound and Arya sneak in through the beach entrance. The hound and Arya get inside. Jaime keeps pleading with Cersei to stop, Cersei says it is too late; Jaime suggest they escape and says think of their baby Dany will not kill her as she is with child; Cersei says he is really the dumbest Lannister because she was lying about it. Jaime is broken up about this as he is also remembering the mad king “burn them all” echoing in his ears. Cersei says to Qyburn Dany can be the queen of ashes. Littlefinger is smiling when Arya and the hound walk in. The mountain attacks the hound they fight as the red keep starts to come under attack...

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Arya heads towards Cersei but is interrupted by little finger and he say “what is a girl doing here” with a smile Arya stops as she walks past him and looks back to see that it is Jaqen H’ghar he says that a girl has stolen many faces and betrayed the many face god. He attacks arya is well trained by he is far better. Cersei tells Qyburn to light the city on fire, Qyburn tries to walk away. Jaime attacks a kings guard and disarms him and kills Qyburn another kings guard attacks him and wounds him greatly but Jaime manages to kill him too. He then strangles Cersei before succumbing to his wounds. The hound cannot kill the mountain and is wounded (the mountain is crushing his head and the hound loses an eye, Arya is also wounded. This is when the flaming roof collapses killing Jaqen H’ghar and the mountain partially crushed making him drop the hound who then manages to behead the mountain and he is finally killed. Arya walks up to the body of Jaqen H’ghar and removes the face to reveal another face underneath. She goes over to the hound who is partially blind. 3 alternate takes she mercy kills him, helps him escape the collapsing red keep or leaves him to die again. Tyrion and Jon see the devastation of the red keep and the unsullied led by a now blood thirsty one eyed Grey worm, who leads the slaughter of innocents; not Dany burning random women and children the chaos is too great and Jon orders the Northmen to fall back. End of episode 7

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Episode 8: The Iron Thrones. Jon Davos and Tyrion survey the damage of the city. And See Grey worm executing Lannister soldiers they confront them, Jon and Grey worm (unsullied and northmen) are about to fight but Tyrion orders them to stand down (since he is still hand of the queen) he demands they all go see Dany; Grey Worm says he has his orders to kill all lannisters. Tyrion says he wants to confirm with Dany before allowing, Grey Worm agrees, because he can see Jon will not let this go. They all go to see the queen together. She gives her speech to the few unsullied and large amount of Dathraki still there. Here are where the 2 alternative ending begin:

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Ending 1: (More similar to war of the roses history) In the first speech it is similar to the one she gives in the show showing delusion and a desire to crush any that would oppose her, not talk about liberating them because she is being ruthless not fully crazy and detached from reality. The bodies of Jaime and Cersei are strong up and Tyrion sees this. He says Varys was right and throws the badge off. Dany has him arrested immediately and says he will be executed. Jon goes to see Tryion with Davos. They discuss what they should all do. Tyrion presses Jon to confront her. Jon says he will not break his word to Dany, Tyrion reminds him of his duty to protect the realms of men and that Dany is now the real threat. Davos agrees it has gone too far. Jon goes to see Dany who touches the thrown right as Jon walks in. He confronts her on the people killed, the woman and the children bodies burning. Dany justifies it by saying Cersei needed to Die. Jon asks how many more need to die, Dany says anyone that stands in her way or is threat to her, Jon asks about Gendry (a Baratheon), himself (a Targaryen), Sansa in the north. Dany tries to ignore this and says no one will threaten her as long as Jon is by her side and loyal. Jon pushes more that she go outside and look at the death she caused. He asks how can he stand by her side like this. She says he does not have a choice, if he loves her and wants to be a man of his word like Ned he will honor his vow. They kiss and Jon says he does love her for who she is not for what she is becoming (duty is more important than honor), as he holds he whispers his night’s watch vow “I am the shield that guards the realms of men” as they are close embracing. He then stabs her. Grey Worm, who is in the room rushes him and they fight; since he is one eyed Jon is able to kill him...

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Drogon arrives and starts to Burn everything. Jon stands back and watches until he is done. Then walks over to him and has him face the throne, then Jon says “dracarys” and that is when Drogon burns the thrown. Drogon grabs Dany’s body and flies away. Similar to the show. Jon immediately goes back to Tyrion, since no one knows Dany is dead yet and tells the guards Dany wants Tyrion released, the guards do not speak the common tongue so do not know what he is saying, so they fight, Jon is about to be killed but Arya comes in and saves him, revealing she was one of the guards. Jon Tyrion Davos and Arya discuss what to do about the Dathraki (still a large force) and remaining Unsullied (not many of them left). Tryion gets the Dathraki to go back to Essos using Davos’s pirate friend to sail them home. The remaining unsullied are disbanded and free to go where they please. Jon has ravens sent to all the major houses. The dragon pit happens but this time Jon is there and official announces he will not accept being king and will elect to go back north with the wildings in self-imposed exile. Sam suggests Democracy and is laughed at. Tyrion suggests there be no throne and that the seven kingdoms go back independent. Bran speaks up at this point and suggests that he has seen what independence looks like and it is even uglier than the united Westeros...

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Edmure speaks up at this point and suggest support for house Stark to take over, as does the Arya. Yara brings up Theon dying for the Starks and says she will honor that and pledges support for them as well. Tyrion asks Bran to accept and Bran says no he cannot be the ruler of anything. Yara Says we were already going to support a Queen why not another proven capable women, Sansa. Everyone agrees, Sansa is made Queen. Tyrion made her hand. Bronn is given the Twins not the Reach. There is a small council and Brienne in the Queens guard scene fixing Jaime’s story. The starks (and Jon) part. Arya says she needs to get away because the many face god will not forget her debt. She will go west of Westeros but not just to discover but to get away from the faceless men. The hound if he is alive stays with Sansa as well. Jon goes north and meets up with Tormund again; not in the night’s watch and not north of the wall because that would be stupid. Jon is relatively happy with a simpler life. (this echoes the war of the roses in which the House of Plantagenet ended (Targaryen House ends) the male lines of the house of York (Stark) and Lancaster (Lannister) relatively ended as well. It also echoes the House of Tudor (Baratheon) ending with Queen Elizabeth who is similar to Sansa. End of Ending 1 of Game of Thrones Series.

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Ending 2: (happier ending echoing Lord of the Rings bitter sweet ending) Dany gives a speech but is noticeably upset by all the destruction. She allows Tyrion to see the bodies of Jaime and Cersei but does not string them up on display. Her speech is one of calming down and praising the victory and talks building a better world then the one they just burned. Tyrion still renounces her and throws off his badge. And storms off, Dany is upset at this and says she has not realeased him of his service. And has him escorted by the unsullied for now, but not fully arrested. Jon goes to see Tryion again with Davos and they do a better job of convincing him to take his throne. He goes to see Dany who this time is more broken up and sad at seeing the thrown she reaches out to touch it but stops short of it as Jon walks in. They discuss what has happened and she renounces the thrown. She says she did what she did because she saw it as hers by rights and it lead to death and misery for the people she wanted to help. She calls Drogon in and burns the throne herself and says they will start a new kingdom build in peace and love. She holds her stomach and reveals she believes she pregnant, and that she wants to be with Jon. Jon not wanted a bastard child pushes for Marriage. He ends up being king with her by his side. The Sansa remains the leader of the north but they are not independent she agrees to follow Jon. Arya still has to leave because of the faceless man stuff...

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Bran Stays in kings landing as an adviser to Jon and Dany. Jon and dany form 2 councils with Joint power and a mild system of some checks and balances, such as the power to overrule one of the others council if the council votes differently from the king counsel or queen counsel. Some of the council positions would be regional representatives similar to a parliament voted by the local regions. Jon and Dany give the power to the council to overrule and king or queen that attempts to disband the council. Those making it a monarchy still but with some electoral control. (This would echo the lord of the rings ending with Jon being similar to Aragon, Arya being similar to Frodo, etc.)

That is it. If you actual read all of this let me know what you think and prefer.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

First of all, thank you for the thought and the work you’ve put into this! Thumbs up!
Secondly, I read this quite fast and I might have missed a thing or two, so if I’m criticizing something just because I didn’t get right, I’m apologizing in advance.

Now:
I MUCH prefer Ending 1!
Ending to is (sorry, but I want to be honest here) for my taste less LotR than the standard Hollywood ending. Dany seeing she was wrong, stepping aside AND a pregnancy and marriage on top… that’s not bittersweet, that’s (sorry again) so sweet it gives me toothaches.
I’m fine with Sansa becoming Queen, but I guess many people will not like it. I’ve got the feeling that Sansa wasn’t well-liked (for whatever reason).

On the other parts, while I don’t feel that it was "half assed contrived nonsense about how it was always meant to be Arya", I’d still be okay with Arya killing the Night King your way, BUT in this case, there’s no explanation why Beric was brought back to life time and time again. (Or did I overlook it? If so, I’m sorry!) Moreover, I don’t like your Jaqen H’ghar part of the story, but this of course is because it contradicts MY interpretation of things (see https://moviechat.org/tt0944947/Game-of-Thrones/5ce385e5f8ae1d1ff874f123/Bronn-will-be-ruling-Westeros-within-a-year?reply=5ce3ce6ef8ae1d1ff874f274 and I prefer to be right. ;-)
Secondly, I also like that Arya gets to see what’s west of Westeros because she WANTS to (and thus, gets a happy ending) not because she HAS to.
Thirdly, Littlefinger going to the Faceless Men seems … well, just wrong to me. Why should he? There was never the slightest hint that he had some connection to the Faceless Men so this whole part of the story seems to "artificial" to me (don’t know if that’s the correct English expression, I hope you know what I mean).
The collapsing roof killing Jaqen H’ghar and the Mountain is a bit too convenient for me.

I don’t get why you feel the Wildlings going north of the wall would be stupid? (tbc)

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

I don’t get why you feel the Wildlings going north of the wall would be stupid?
They’ve lived there forever, and with the White Walkers gone, it’s even better than before. Yes, the climate is harsh but in our world, that didn’t make the Inuit and Yupik go south, too.

And, for the moment I’m not entirely convinced that Jon would kill Dany if she has NOT killed innocents herself. I’ll have to think about that.

BUT apart from the things I’ve mentioned I like your version (as I’ve said, with Ending 1), because it elaborates on details the show just rushed through.
So thanks again, hopefully you’ll see my response as it was intended: To give a constructive critique and honestly saying what I think, NOT to nag.

(I’ll read it again and then more carefully, sometime soon. IF I find something more I don’t like, I’ll report back.)

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Hi Atarimaster,

Thank you for reading and the praise, it was done mostly for closure for myself but I am glad other found it an interesting read.

I too prefer ending 1, as it is a bit more realistic and fitting with the tone of the series. The more sappy part of me kind of wanted a LotR ending were it is relatively happy. But still ending 1 is better.

It was contrived for Arya to be the one because there was no set up for it and it was rushed, it was done specifically because no one was thinking of Ara at the time. The writers admit this. Melisandre doing the "blue eyes" bit and the "what do we say to the god of death" was contrived nonsense, weak writing and a sloppy attempt at making it look like it was meant to be. And it comes at the cost of robbing Jon (and Beric) of their Arc. They needed to be invovled more even if it was Arya that gets the killing blow. The way it is now is Jon yells at a dragon and Beric is a glorified obstacle. Makes bringing them back from the dead rather pointless because literally anyone else could fill those roles.

The point with the faceless men is non of them are Jagen H'hgar and they serve the God of Death, Jon fights on the side of the living which opposes death (even if they always win). Arya still choose Death (killing the Freys and wanting to kill Cersie) until she decides to join back up with her family. That is the moment she rejects the many faced god. You can say she was supposed to kill Cersie but instead retained being Arya. It is dificult to fix the end of the House of Black and White Arc but this makes more sense to me, especially since the show writers admit that they only decided it would be Arya sometime during or after filming season 6. Which means they had not decided while writing season 6.

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

>And, for the moment I’m not entirely convinced that Jon would kill Dany if she has NOT killed innocents herself. I’ll have to think about that.

I may have wrote that badly, she did herself kill innocents but it was while she was specifically targeting Cersei and the red keep area. An area where a majority of the people retreated to. She was so caught up in her anger and desire to get the thrown, she betrayed herself and killed innocents. But in the show she goes specifically out of her way to target them; which is just insanely evil and totally out of character for her.

But overall I am glad you liked most of it, this was a rough draft put together with sort of my main preferences and changes that would make it a satisfying conclusion. I take your critiques for what they are, perhaps showing the areas were I need to elaborate more, or maybe just an area where we have different preferences, such as you take on the many faced god and Jaqen H'ghar. your take on it, I think works as well, but i just don't like it because the entire time Arya and her arc had nothing to do with the white walkers and going back and suggesting throughout the whole series it was setting up for it feels like it retroactively changes her story. Meaning it is like they get to the end of the story and then "oh, crap" how do we make it make sense that Arya was set up for this? You know what I mean?

Thank you for your take on my draft of season 8. :)

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

As I’ve said before, I don’t have a lot of time today, so here are just a few more words:

> The writers admit this. (…)
> Which means they had not decided while writing season 6.

OK, I wasn’t aware of this. This of course proves my theory wrong. (DAMN!)

> Makes bringing them back from the dead rather pointless
> because literally anyone else could fill those roles.

Alright, but especially for Beric I have to say that your version doesn’t improve on this. (I think you don’t even mention HOW he dies, or did I overlook it?)
Maybe he could play some important part in killing the Night King, e.g. attacking the Night King while holds down Jon with his foot, and in the very moment that the NK turns to Beric and kills him, Arya jumps out and kills the NK. Thus, Beric would’ve at least caused the distraction that Arya needed to get to the NK.
(This is just an example, the first idea that comes to my mind, probably there are better ways.)

As for Jon… well, he kind of orchestrated the fight against the WW, without him, they would’ve just overrun Winterfell. To me, that’s a satisfying reason for being brought back.

Of course, Beric could also be the one who kills the Night King, BUT I feel that Arya HAS to get an "important kill" or her "Hous of Black&White" storyline would be the one that is basically for nothing. Yes, she did kill the Freys but to me, that seems not enough to justify that story arc.

> Meaning it is like they get to the end of the story and then "oh, crap"
> how do we make it make sense that Arya was set up for this? You know what I mean?

Yes, I understand.

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

For my version Beric was there for the 'main' fight against the night king and the white walker generals; and he is killed helping in that fight; one reason though that I don't necessarily feel a need to give him a expressely predominate role in this fight was because in the books he has been dead since a few days after the Red Wedding, so as Samwise Gamgee might say "by rights he shouldn't even be there". Now since we was brought back so many times there does need to be something somewhat important he does, but the way they made him a glorified door block was anti-clamatic as hell. "Sorry Beric, we know we brought you back from the dead 6 times but in the end you are only about as useful as a large cabinet."

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

One difference between Tolkien’s and GRRM’s world is: In Tolkien’s world, there definetely ARE Gods. In GRRM’s world there are, just like in out world, different beliefs and different religions, but we, the readers and viewers, never get to learn if there are Gods at all. (At least I think it was this way in the books also, but as I’ve said before, I forgot so much I surely wouldn’t bet on it.)

Except for the Lord of Light. Bringing back Beric and Jon always seemed like a proof that HE really exists. Now, the writers could have taken a turn on that by somehow explaining that actually both Thoros and Melisandre (unknowingly!) had the power to bring back the dead in themselves (we do know that magic exists in this world). They just *thought* it was the Lord of Light, granting a request.

That would explain a bit, but… it doesn’t feel like a good solution as well, does it?
It’s more like replacing an anticlimatic ending with a different anticlimatic ending.

[–] Alerra (244) 6 years ago

>we, the readers and viewers, never get to learn if there are Gods at all.<

Now, I see it completely differently. I've always viewed it as all the various faiths are presented as being "real" and their gods "having power." Yes, R'hllor has the power to resurrect the dead. But so does the drowned god. The many-faced god enables its followers to take on the appearance and personality of other people (this is more clear in the books -- putting on a face allows Arya to take on some of the memories of the original person). The Old Gods have those Holy Hand Grenades and the weir-net, and you'll notice that there are wargs only in places where they are worshiped. And one could probably say it was the power of the Great Stallion that actually enabled Dany to birth the dragons.

And one could make the argument that, while Arya called upon the many-faced god to take down the Freys, their deaths was the righteous judgment of the Seven (recall the farmer telling Arya and the Hound that WF would burn in seven hells for the Red Wedding).

(by the way, I hope you read this as academic debate and not as trolling arguments. I'm enjoying this thread as much as you are.)

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

> Now, I see it completely differently. I've always viewed it as all the various faiths are
> presented as being "real" and their gods "having power." (…)

While the examples you mention are all true, I still feel that in the TV show, they (probably intentionally) handled this matter quite vaguely, it works both with being explained with "real gods" and "magic only". As for the books, as I’ve said before, I don’t remember them very all. I think I should be prepare a list of things that I should pay attention to when I read them again. ;-)

However I’m quite sure (correct me if I’m wrong) that we don’t get a "proof" there, too.
And there’s one thing that I do remember from the books:

> and you'll notice that there are wargs only in places where they are worshiped.

Yes, but in the novels (book spoilers following)
[spoiler]Arya can warg, too, but for a long time, she doesn’t know what to make of it when she e.g. has dreams in which she sees through Nymeria’s eyes.[/spoiler]

So theoretically, it IS possible that there are wargs all over Westeros (and Essos) but nobody teaches them about their power thus they never learn how to use it. Granted, if that’s what GRRM had in mind, he could have easily introduced one character from the south/east who unknowingly is a warg. I don’t think there is such a character, which might be a hint that your theory is correct.

> And one could probably say it was the power of the Great Stallion
> that actually enabled Dany to birth the dragons.

And there is the thing that Dany is impervious to fire (and apparently, all kinds of heat).
While some people thought that it’s a Targaryen thing, we saw Viserys die from heat, and more importantly: In the DVD/BD audio commentaries, GRRM mentions at one point that this is not a power that is inherited by all Targaryens. (Sorry, can’t remember on which episode that specific comment is to be found.)
So yes, this *might* hint at the involvement of Gods.
(tbc)

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

(continuation:)
> while Arya called upon the many-faced god to take down the Freys,
> their deaths was the righteous judgment of the Seven

Didn’t Jaqen say that the Many-Faced God IS the Seven Gods anyway, in seven incarnations? I remember him saying SOMETHING like that but I can’t remember his exact words.

> recall the farmer telling Arya and the Hound that WF would burn in seven hells for the Red Wedding.

AND remember Bran’s story of the Rat Cook.
I guess that story was where Arya got the idea with the pie… most likely, Old Nan told it to Arya, too.

Talking of Old Nan: Hats off to Margaret John, may she rest in peace! She did such a great job in Season 1!

> by the way, I hope you read this as academic debate and not as trolling arguments.

Not to worry, I understand this. But thank you nonetheless for voicing it. :-)

[–] Alerra (244) 6 years ago

I remember a scene in Season 5 where Arya is in the "sanctuary" (for lack of a better word) of the House of Black and White and asks Jaqen where the Many-Faced God is. She says, "I see the Drowned god. I see the Stranger. Which one is the Many-Faced God?" And Jaqen says something along the lines of "There is only one god. A girl knows his name."

So maybe the followers of the MFG believe something along the lines of all the gods being different interpretations of one god, and all religions simply different ways to worship it. Of course, this is also what the followers of the Seven believe as well -- the Father, Mother, Smith, Maiden, Crone, Warrior, and Stranger are all just different incarnations of one being.

[–] Alerra (244) 6 years ago

>There was never the slightest hint that [Littlefinger] had some connection to the Faceless Men>

In Season 1, the small council suggests hiring a Faceless Assassin to kill Dany, and Littlefinger comments on how pricey they were. And in Season 7, he is shown handing a coin of Braavos to an unidentified young woman. This goes nowhere, but there is a theory that she was a faceless person.

Also, there is an additional theory that suggests that Jaqen was in the black cells because Littlefinger hired him to kill Ned -- it's conjecture, but the way the YouTube video lays it out makes sense.

Now, personally, I don't think he would have gone to the Faceless Assassins for his own safety because he always felt he was smarter than everyone around him and would see a threat coming, so why would he need a Faceless Assassin? (Also, I think that if anyone other than Bran, Sam, Howland Reed, and Lyanna's handmaiden knew about Jon's true parentage, it would have been Varys, not Littlefinger, because the people who knew seem more like Varys' type of informant than Littlefinger's. But that's just me.)

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

I forgot about the Season 1 comment.

>he always felt he was smarter than everyone around him and would see a threat coming, so why would he need a Faceless Assassin?

You are right about this, but in the case of Bran he is not playing the game against a 'fair' opponent. Bran has magical powers and the point is Little Finger knew he could not win against an complete repository of information, so he needed to get out alive. At least I could see that happening. Not him getting completely punked out and killed while crying; or thinking he would successfully get Sansa to turn on Jon and have Arya killed. Like what the hell was his plan in there anyway?

>it would have been Varys, not Littlefinger, because the people who knew seem more like Varys' type of informant than Littlefinger's. But that's just me.

You are right about that except for the fact that Littlefinger was around in Westeros and there to observe a lot of these events. Varys was not yet present for a majority of the history and Littlefinger was present at the Tourney of Harranhal. Varys was not, and only moved to King's landing a few years prior. So it is possible that Little Finger would have some information that Varys did not have.

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Little finger did not join with the faceless men, he used them to escape. It was not little finger that was there it was a faceless assassin using his face. Little Finger's actual fate would be unknown, but he likely escaped but had some debt he had to pay to the many face god. the reason why it makes sense is because Little finger is originally from Bravos and in Season 7 he says he has heard of them by reputation. There is also the scene in season 7 were he gives an unknown girl a single coin. This could be the set up for which he was using a 'get out of jail free' card he had all along just in case.

The roof collapse didn't kill both of them, only Jagen, the mountain was just knocked back by it dropping the hound; I may have wrote that badly. it is a bit convenient, but it makes sense too, falling debris can sometimes kill people.

You would have to read the book to understand; the north is a harsh place to live even in the absence of the white walkers, there are few resources and it is too cold to farm. This is the reason why even without the white walker threat for many hundreds of years the wildings have been trying to get south of the wall, and why it does not make sense they would give up the land they received in the north. The wall is about pointless now so being north or south of it does not matter other than it being warmer or colder.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

Thanks for your further explanations!
Since it’s late now here, I’m going to restrain myself to three comments. I don’t know yet if I’ll have time to write more tomorrow, but I’d definetely like to come back to this.

> Little finger did not join with the faceless men, he used them to escape.
> It was not little finger that was there it was a faceless assassin using his face.

I got that, but I didn’t get why he should have a connection to the Faceless Men at all, but now you’ve elaborated on that.

> Little Finger's actual fate would be unknown

Umm, if one of the Faceless Men used his face, his fate IS known – to us, not to the other guys in the show, which I guess is what you meant. He’s dead and his face has been taken off at the House of B&W…

> You would have to read the book to understand (…)
> for many hundreds of years the wildings have been trying to get south of the wall

I did read the books, but I forgot about this. Jeez, I have forgotten A LOT, it’s about time I should read them again.

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Thank you for the discussion on this, it is proving interest,

>Umm, if one of the Faceless Men used his face, his fate IS known – to us, not to the other guys in the show, which I guess is what you meant. He’s dead and his face has been taken off at the House of B&W…

Hmm, I am now wondering on the official standing on the use of faces and if the person who has their face being used has to be dead for them to use the face. After the 5 season I think you are right, it seems the person has to be dead to have their face usable; prior to that at the end of season 5 Arya sees her own face on one of the "no one's" so it seemed like a person did not need to be dead for their face to be used. But after that it did seem to change. I am honestly not sure either way, I guess that is because the show did not specify the details of how their power is used.

Which brings up a whole new discussion though on the faceless assassin power changing dramatically between between season 5 and 6. Up to season 6 it seemed like a form of magic; such as when Jagen changes the first time in season 2, or when Arya is removing the faces in Season 5; like they swipe away magically. Starting in season 6 they started to behave more like just face masks they are wearing a la Mission Impossible.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

> prior to that (…) it seemed like a person did not need to be dead for their face to be used.

Hmm, well, I seem to remember we did see them taking off the faces of the dead at the time when Arya was still ordered to clean the bodies, which implies that they need the faces, however at the moment I’m not sure if we REALLY saw that of if, you know, my imagination filled in some blanks.

Moreover, what I know for sure, when Arya killed Meryn Trant she wore the face of the little ill girl that was brought to the House of Black & White by her father a few episodes earlier.

But you are right on how the removing of the faces changed, although it never occured to me before. How the hell could I miss that?

On the scene where Arya sees her own face, I have no idea. I already wondered about that when I first saw it (because at that time, I already assumed that they need the faces of the dead) but as you say, they never came up with a proper explanation.

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

>Hmm, well, I seem to remember...

Yes you are right, this was in season 5, before she killed Meryn Trant. There seems to be something off with the continuity of the the faceless men and their power.

> I already assumed that they need the faces of the dead) but as you say, they never came up with a proper explanation.

It might be that they just never fully explained what was going on as soon as they departed from the Book material; the House of Black and White story line is significantly different in the books; such as Jagen not being there. Correct me if I am wrong but I do not think there is a Waif character and Arya does not kill Meryn Trant, correct? She is blinded for a different reason, i think killing a night's watch deserter and there is no explanation yet of the faceless system. So I imagine this can get summed up as a result of D & D's bad writing when going off the book material.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

> Correct me if I am wrong but I do not think there is a Waif character

The Waif is also in the books.

> and Arya does not kill Meryn Trant, correct?

Correct.

> She is blinded for a different reason, i think killing a night's watch deserter

She kills the deserter, but the way I remember it, she is not blinded because of the kill itself, but because she mentions to The-man-who-is-Jaqen-H'ghar-in-the-show-but-not-in-the-books ;-) that "Arya" killed him, thus showing that she still isn’t no one.

[–] Alerra (244) 6 years ago

>the north is a harsh place to live ... for many hundreds of years the wildings have been trying to get south of the wall, and why it does not make sense they would give up the land they received in the north.

But it was still their HOME. I kinda view it similar to the relationships between Scotland and England, back when the two were separate countries. The Scots didn't cross over the border to set up shop and live; they crossed because raiding and pillaging the English was part of their way of life. England had the more moderate climate and might be easier to farm, but Scotland was still their home and always would be. It's the same here (at least the way I view it). The Gift might be better land, the climate might be more hospitable, and the Northerners might be wealthier, but the land north of the Wall was their home. So when all the threats from the Army of the Dead are eliminated, it makes complete sense to me that they would want to return.

Also, I read somewhere a theory that defeating the Others would allow the seasons to go back to normal. This would make absolutely no sense from a scientific perspective, but it's a cool idea. When Bran witnesses the creation of the Night King, it's in an area that's green and covered in grass, and the Night King does not appear to be physically uncomfortable, despite having no shirt on. That location is well north of the Wall, so it should have been covered in snow. And as everyone leaves Castle Black in the finale, we see a flower starting to grow. So maybe creating the Night King and his army was what threw the seasons all out of wack, and defeating them brought them back into balance again.

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

It might be a difference in interpretation here, but the wildings seemed more like migrants to me that were not allowed to migrate south of the wall before. We have an argument similar today going on, in America you have a large number of migrants coming from the southern countries. They are seeking a new and perhaps better life. They are not fully being allowed to do this because of the U.S. laws (right or wrong as they are, not trying to get political here). In this case those seeking a better life in an environment with more opportunities outweighs their desire to remain in their home.

Even in the absence of the white walker threat does not change the fact that the north of the wall environment is low in resources and has no political stability. Maybe it will now with Jon and Tormund in charge but they don't know that. I doubt that if suddenly Mexico, Central and south America suddenly had better political stability you would see a large exodus of the immigrants back to their home countries. Especially if once they moved they embraced their new homes or were completely welcome by the receiving nation.

[–] Bolchevik (377) 6 years ago

I really like many of your changes/suggestions.

S8 handled it poorly but I think Dany going nuts, killing innocents and then being killed by John is a great ending (probably GRR's idea). However, I really like your idea to keep the two dragons for King's landing attack. One fatal flaw from S8 was that Dany said she would spare the city if she hears surrendering bells yet she hears them and for no apparent good Reason or even explanation she burns everything and everyone nonetheless. Total nonsense. It would have made sense however if Something bad happened during the battle, Something to modify her promise to Tyrion. One of her dragon dying during King's landing battle would definitely have been a perfect justification for her to go nuts and burning all down.

Few points:

1. Dont really see how Jaime could be a match for the night king with his golden hand.
2. Arya goes west to escape the faceless god, brilliant. Was so cheesy she went west to "explore". Made no sense.
3. I dont think Sansa being queen make sense though. In fact, she shouldn't even have been queen of the north. She just doesn't deserve that. Let's not forget we are in a sort of medieval times. It's a little bit too much suspending disbelief that a girl and an almost child be named queen of Westeros just like that. The best I recall, she did Nothing significant. She had been a puppet until John defeated Ramsay and then she pretented to be someone. It's not like Dany with her dragons who conquered hald the known world.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

> Something to modify her promise to Tyrion

Maybe she never had the intention to keep that promise and simply… lied.
(Although I agree that Rhaegal dying during the battle would have made a LOT more sense.)

> Was so cheesy she went west to "explore". Made no sense.

It DID make sense since she stated that wish back in season 6.

> Let's not forget we are in a sort of medieval times. It's a little bit too much
> suspending disbelief that a girl and an almost child be named queen of Westeros just like that.

With Bran not being "available" to become King in the North and all the other male members of the Stark family being dead, even in our Middle Ages she would have been the first choice to become Queen.

> she did Nothing significant.

Doing something significant has never been in the job description of Kings & Queens in medieval times. Being the rightful heir to the right family has.

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

>Maybe she never had the intention to keep that promise and simply… lied.
That would seem out of character for her, she never seemed to be the lying type. Especially since her character descended into complete megalomania lying to an adviser about what you will do seems contradictory. It would be more likely if she was that insane that she was planning on burning everyone before the moment came she would just tell Tyrion and say if he doesn't like it she'd execute him too.

>Although I agree that Rhaegal dying during the battle would have made a LOT more sense
Yes, I think it is the only thing that could happen in the moment that would really break her and put her on a destructive rampage. but only in the moment.

>It DID make sense since she stated that wish back in season 6.
I like many others did not feel this was sufficient set up; it seemed more like a throw away line. It is difficult to put the character end point as something that was brought up once briefly with no other real relevance. The Season 6 line just did not seem enough justification to say this was a deep desire of her character.

>Doing something significant has never been in the job description of Kings & Queens in medieval times. Being the rightful heir to the right family has

You are right about this of course but the problem in the show's ending is Bran is made king with almost no bloodline justification, According to Season 8 the right family is not the most important but having "the best story" is. So if we were working only off the idea of medieval times bloodline rights then there is no way Bran would be made king of anything except the north. By rights the best true heir would either be Gendry or Jon.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

> I like many others did not feel this was sufficient set up;
> it seemed more like a throw away line.

To me, that line was enough to suppose that this’ll be her ending in the story IF she survives. From the moment she said it. There were not much other "talking of the future" moments in the show – except in the very beginning, when she said she doesn’t want to be a Lady. Maybe the idea to become an explorer came later (which would be quite normal for a kid that age), maybe she idea came right at the moment when Lady Crane asked.
However, if she had talked about time and again, you know what people now would say? "Oooh, that was SO obvious that this’ll be her ending, they made her talk about it all the time!"

> but the problem in the show's ending is Bran is made king with
> almost no bloodline justification, According to Season 8
> the right family is not the most important but having "the best story" is.

Yes, this hold true to the new way of the remaining Six Kingdoms. It wasn’t indicated that the North, now a autonomous kingdom, jumps on that train. If they follow the old ways, Sansa’s the right and logical choice to become Queen.

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

>to me, that line was enough to suppose...

We will have to just agree to disagree on this one; for me it was not enough, it was almost jarring it was so out of nowhere. Someone hell bent on revenge and death turns decides to become Christopher Columbus a few weeks after the she watched kings landing get burned to the ground. It was odd.

>Yes, this hold true to the new way of the remaining Six Kingdoms...

Well that is pretty convenient that the other 6 kingdoms were so willing to go along with this new system and yet the north is perfectly content sticking with the old ways. It is so neatly tied together it is like someone wrote it in a script.

But more seriously, if it was the case that the north was sticking to the ways they would not have made Jon King in the north since he had no right to it. They chose him over Sansa. And then if Bran was made king of all the seven kingdoms and the north was sticking with the old way they would defer to Bran as their king because he is the rightful heir to the north anyway. Nothing about this makes sense. And it is kind of frustrating to try to untangle the mess.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

> It is so neatly tied together it is like someone wrote it in a script.

To me, it’d be illogical if the North had said: "We don’t want to be part of the union anymore, but hey, your 'electing the King' stuff seems pretty nice, we’ll just adopt it."

> hey would not have made Jon King in the north since he had no right to it.

And they made him King because? – He had Ned Stark’s blood (or so they thought at that point).
While it was unusual to accept a bastard, that’s still sticking to the "blood makes a King" approach.
And Bran simply wasn’t available anymore, he already had accepted to become King of the Six Kingdoms.

So I guess that’s "agree to disagree" again.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

>To me, it’d be illogical if the North had said..

Now that you mention it, there was not much indication that "the North" would have had issues remaining in the 7 kingdoms if a Stark was King, it was only Sansa that seemed to want independence. Still somewhat confusing that Bran continuesly refused to be King in the North or Warden in the North or Lord of Winterfell only to turn around a seemingly suggest he turned that down because he was planning on being king of everything.

>And they made him King because?...

In the books it would make more sense for him to be made king because he was legitimized and official declared lawful heir to Robb Stark. But since that was cut from the show making him king in the north simply was because he was thought to be Ned's son and he fought for the north. So they 'sort of' elected him as king. If they were going off of blood and legitimacy only then Sansa would have been declared. And then both Sansa and Jon would have been overthrown by the arrival of Bran. even if he didn't want it the north would still recognize him as the rightful king; unless he joined the nights watch or measters or something.

>And Bran simply wasn’t available anymore...

That still does not make sense. He might not be available to be king in the north anymore but if the north stayed in the 7 kingdoms he would still be the king of the north. And it is still troubling for him to refuse lordship of the north only to turn around and accept being king of 6 kingdoms, like it was settled in his mind but he failed to mention that to anyone, but then just allow the north to go independent when the north is the only one that he actually had rights to in the first place.

And not to mention just how messed up they presented his accepting of the kingship like he knew it all along. That basically makes him evil and overpowered.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 5 years ago

> there was not much indication that "the North" would have
> had issues remaining in the 7 kingdoms if a Stark was King,
> it was only Sansa that seemed to want independence.

She raised the matter before, when she was talking to Dany. But we don’t know if it was her own idea or if she discussed this off-screen with some northern Lords. *sigh* One more thing they just didn’t tell us.

> And not to mention just how messed up they
> presented his accepting of the kingship like
> he knew it all along. That basically makes
> him evil and overpowered.

I don’t know if his "Why do you think I came all this way" meant that he really knew it in advance, or if he felt, right at that moment, that this was the path that destiny has laid out for him. I think both interpretations work, but again *sigh* etc.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

>*sigh*

I think that is the key point overall here. With the end of GoT there is just so much to *sigh* about that I see very little good graces for the universe moving forward. I would be surprised if the prequels do well, the last books might (if they are every finished) just because people might be curious to see the differences.

But I think season 8 for the most part killed the potential of the entire franchise. This was a IP that had billions of dollars worth of potential; feature length films, video games, toys, posters all sorts of product placements and merchandising. But instead now it will be only on the list of great shows with terrible endings and then fizzle into just a bad memory of wasted potential. as you said "*sigh*"

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Thanks for the complements. And I agree, the issue with Season 8 was not so much of what happened (such as Dany going crazy) but with how it happened. That is why I think one of her dragons dying in the battle would be more of a trigger for her to rage out; but still not enough to go out of her way to target innocents. I can see her targeting the lannisters army and the red keep and not caring about the collateral; but not burning thousands of men, women and children just to inspire fear. That has never been suggested to be part of her character, in fact it was always to the contrary; she seemed always concerned with the state of the little people.

>1. Dont really see how Jaime could be a match for the night king with his golden hand.
Oh he wasn't, he was nothing more than a distraction; but because there was 3 or 4 of them all attacking at the same time Jaime would be able to possibly survive and maybe even successfully land a hit.

>2. Arya goes west to escape the faceless god, brilliant. Was so cheesy she went west to "explore". Made no sense.

Agreed, if they were going to go that route with her there should have been more of an set up for it except the one throw away line in Season 6. It should have been something she talked about in one of the first seasons and then again in the faceless men training, like during the lying game. Something that suggested she wanted to explore and go on sea voyages.

>3...

It is a bit messy with the blood lines and royal lineages; but I think the end point they were going for was roughly equal or similar to English history right around the end of the Tudor dynasty; So I was going for a Sansa somewhat equal to Elizabeth. You could also go for the Sansa being roughly equal to Mary Queen of Scots though. The point is, if they were going with the idea of the war of the roses for the inspiration, this ended with the end of the Plantagenet dynasty and the death of nearly all male heirs of the York and Lancaster houses.

[–] Caliblack (47) 6 years ago

Words words words......blah