These guys have worked hard as hell for 8 years, running a show that has become a phenomenon and that some call the greatest show of all time.
It's amazing how quickly fans have turned against them. No appreciation.
The most recent seasons may not be as strong as earlier seasons but it's still damn good TV and, in my opinion at least, still better than anything else on television.
You can build a hell of a house, but people can only see the last coat of paint.
shareThat's unfortunate.
Julius Caesar was right: The people are fickle. They can't help but constantly ask, "What have you done for me lately?"
There's a reason why that is human nature though. If you depend on something for food and one day it stops giving food then you're in trouble no matter how much food it gave you in the past.
shareTrue, but it is possible to build that whole house and have a fitting coat of paint that’s pleasing to most when done.
Perfect example (rather it’s your personal preference or not) is “Breaking Bad”. Most fans of the show agree that they killed it in the early seasons, & stuck the landing on the last season. So it is possible.
I seriously think that D&D made the old mistake of starting new projects while they should of been focusing 100% on what they already had.
Especially once they ran out of Book material - that’s when they should of focused even harder, to make their house as great as possible.
Unfortunately, about the same time the Books ran out they were getting approached with huge new $$$ opportunities, & were probably over working on someone else’s story. So they rushed the last 2 Seasons...
With Breaking Bad the creative team all stayed 100% committed until the last episode. So it is possible to please your fan base, & have twists and turns, etc..along the way.
I actually agree with you. I'm not oblivious to the drop in quality, but these guys took on a tremendous task of telling this epic story on screen and they created one of the best series ever. Now, I can see why people are disappointed with the last few seasons and it does come down to the writing, but I still respect these 2 guys for the work they have done. Imagine the pressure of having to finish out the story and pleasing the mountains of fans all around the world...it certainly wouldn't be easy.
shareI would like to see such a monumental task dropped into the laps of the complainers. It would be a mess. They would learn very quickly how hard it is to run a show like this.
The most recent seasons have had some weaknesses, certainly, but I have still enjoyed them. Watching this season of GoT has been more enjoyable for me than any other television experience of the year so far, by a wide margin. So I don't feel like I can complain much.
These guys have been going hard for nearly a decade. Let's cut them a little slack.
I’m with you.
Yes, the writers did drop the ball on these last few seasons. Especially Seasons 7-8. I would’ve (& did for a time) given them some slack for Season 7’s issues, but unfortunately Season 8 continued with the same trend of rushing to the finish line...
No, I don’t really have a problem with a character turning bad/evil whatever.
But, yes, they should have done the 10 episode seasons (like HBO wanted) to make that, & many other story arcs flow into a more natural conclusion.
All that said, I still think they’re good writers because of how well they pulled off Seasons 1-4. Yes, I know they still had the books then...but huge adaptations, like this was, rarely work out well. Especially this well. Even with the foundation of the books, it still takes a good creative-writing team to make something this successful.
So if they (D&D) really focus & learn from their GoT’s “the latter years” mistakes - they can still create great things ahead.
Not to mention, I’d rather have these two writing new Star Wars movies than those dudes that wrote those terrible Transformers/Star Trek reboot movies.. Dear god, for awhile those two guys were handed almost every blockbuster sci-fi/fantasy franchise...& unlike D&D - they’ve never adapted/created anything that even comes close to the quality of Game of Thrones.
So, I still have faith in them as writers. At least when it comes to future projects. But if they F-up Star Wars any worse than it already is as of now, I’m done.
Troll post of the day!
No, they did extraordinary work in years past, but they deserve every bit of scorn they're receiving for Season 8.
The thing is I felt series 5 went too slow possibly dragged when I first watched it but this might have been due to the fact I was new and binged watched the first 4 non stop first to catch up. At the time it felt like Daenerys riding her dragon for the first time was a key point and they just where filling stuff to lead up to it (I know there was a lot more actually).
The next few series felt like they were going a lot quicker - revealing important stuff in most episodes but also taking their time still. I don't think many people would be pleased with what happened in the end - if their theories came true they would should predictable yet be disappointed if they didn't. I just wish it could have happened a bit slower - We saw some glimpses into Daenerys madness for example but very small so a better look at this over time would have been great. I feel like if this was a few series ago the mountain and the hound's fight would have been generally a full episode.
Nevertheless it's still the best series out there and I will be buying it all one day on bluray
I did the same as you. Binged 1-4 Seasons, & was blown away with how good it was. Then I watched Season 5 live & couldn’t help notice how different the pacing was. Looking back now, I’d rather have Season 5’s pacing than Season 7-8’s.
shareD&D simply adapted someone else's work. True, they may have condensed the story and cut out some of the fat, but it's hardly difficult to adapt something. But the books ended after S4 and they basically did their own thing, with a brief outline from the "someone else". No wonder people say S5 sucks, the quality drop happened right there.
It's much harder to create than adapt, but I've seen many crappy adaptions so I'd give D&D credit for that. Instead of blaming them for a drop in quality, I'll blame GRRM.
shareI've been a critic of what we've seen lately, but the idea that it's not difficult simply isnt true. Writing for tv is much different than the novel form. You can't roam with endless exposition in a teleplay or screenplay. There's been many a horrible adaptation b/c it's still incredibly difficult. Condensing in an elegant and compelling way is not easy. It's like writing the perfect poem that captures all the meaning and emotion. Less words but oh so hard to nail.
shareYou can't roam with endless exposition in a teleplay or screenplay.
GoT is not the kind of novel that roams with endless exposition. Actually, RR Martin has been screenwriter for series before. His novels (at least, the GoT ones) are written like a set pieces using different point of views. American novels use to follow the 'show, don't tell' as first rule, and Martin does that even more.
If you were adapting, I don't know, Milan Kundera or Françoise Sagan, well, that would be a different story. But RR Martin can be adapted without much problem.
Since I havent read his books, I'll take your word regarding exposition -- but I thought he decided to write these novels b/c writing screenplays constrained him. Those constraints are what I'm getting at. There's over 4k pages in those novels, so it's not like a comic book or graphic novel which most lends itself to adaptation to screen (not that that's easy either). I still dispute the poster's assertion that "it's hardly difficult to adapt something".
And I dont know where you stand, but I also dispute the common notion that the problem now is due solely to lack of source material. What I'm seeing has happened with nearly every serialized drama I've ever seen. You write in a different way to generate an audience to avoid cancellation. Then you have to keep the hit going. But once you have to wrap it all up, it's hard to stick the landing with these shows. It's just another example of last season-itis. Closing all the ends you've opened -- in a compelling and satisfying way -- is very difficult. Writing for tv, across that many seasons, is hard. Maybe Martin would have disappointed as well, despite the extra freedom that the novel form provides. No writing is easy.
I would just challenge this with....if this is true, why are there so many horrible adaptations of good books?
shareActually Season 5 follows A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons for the most part. It's Season 6 which is unknown territory--basically The Winds of Winter which we've been waiting for eons.
shareNo. They don't.
Once they run out of books, the series became garbage. But direction is still good, and CGI are amazing, specially for its budget.
The series was good because it had great source material (RR Martin), good direction, amazing actors and very good CGI. D&D were taking a credit they didn't deserve. They were just piping the source material to actors and directors. Once they run out of source material, the series became a mess.
D&D may not be as good of writers as GRRM, but they're still pretty good.
The show is not "garbage." I continue to enjoy it more than anything else on television.
Just because it dropped from a 10 to an 8 or 7.5 doesn't mean it sucks.
It dropped harder than that. The script is pure and simple garbage. Direction, actors and CGI are still good, but bad writing takes a hard toll in a series (or a movie).
shareLook for 8 years these guys have gotten nothing but love and affection for all the great work they've done adapting George's work, and doing a hell of a job of it. I've praised them for 8 years because they deserved it, and gave us something really special. A fantastic show, with beautiful scenery, great cinematography, quality scripts, and fantastic actors. Season 7 was my least favorite, the year GOT started to go Hollywood on us, but still enjoyable.
But I'm sorry they deserve blame for the trainwreck that is Season 8. I'm of the belief that you have to take the good with the bad in life, especially with the arts. For 8 years they've gotten nothing but praise, and love. They dropped the ball big time, and they deserve the criticism. It's not even what they're doing, it's how they're doing it. Had their execution been better, and not rushed, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation right now.
They've had two years to end this thing, and this is the best they could do. You said it yourself they've worked hard as hell for 8 years and truth be told, they're burnt out. HBO told them to take 10 episodes instead of 6, or even take another Season, but they declined (so that's on D and D). Regardless of how terrible this ending is, the show is still going down in my top 5. Now to be fair, are some fans going above and beyond, absolutely. But to say they deserve more appreciation, I think they've gotten enough (hell they got a Star Wars movie out of it).
Look for 8 years these guys have gotten nothing but love and affection for all the great work they've done adapting George's work
The problem is that all that great work never existed. They had great novels easy to adapt, good directors, amazing actors and good CGI. They were just picking the best lines from the novels and piping them to directors and actors.
Once they ran out of source material, and THAT was the moment they had to show their value, they screwed it hard.
They (and the HBO writers) are good screen writers that can take an existing story and put it to film. No one is disputing that. What they clearly can't do is create original material in the GoT universe, which is demonstrably different. That's why there are thousands of screen writers out there, it doesn't take that much skill, but only a small handful of people like Tolkein and GRRM that can create whole worlds just in their mind.