MovieChat Forums > Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion > The medieval motif is the last vestige o...

The medieval motif is the last vestige of white supremacy


I think movies with historical themes are often just excuses to avoid casting black people. Everyone wants to go back in time to when the culture wasn't so degenerate. Future movies tend to be dystopic. Look at the Matrix 2 when they go to that rave party. Nobody is looking forward to that.

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That's hilarious. Problem is there have been medieval series featuring blackies. The worse offender is the BBC, they made Robin Hood with blackies and Les miserables with a black Javert.

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If only it was about the series. Damn, the BBC documentary for kids about Ancient Rome portrayed Romans as partially black. A f***ing documentary for kids.

Anyway, the guy that has opened this thread looks like a SJW. They're the only ones that keep using the 'white supremacy' expression.

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What expression do YOU use for white supremacists? Very fine people?

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The suspicion of the OP being a secret "SJW" for using the term "white supremacy" is because it's generally part of white supremacist "code" to play dumb & deny white supremacy/white supremacists exist while in neutral public spaces amongst the normies & not amongst themselves on stormfront and the like.

White supremacists/White supremacy is all about deception so the OP was being chastised for being "off code" by so brazenly acknowledging white supremacy since a "real" fellow white supremacist would know to play the white supremacist denial game, hiding behind the standard thinly veiled rhetoric.

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- You are a reptilian!!
- WTF? What nonsense is that?
- Reptilians deny being reptilians! So that proves you're a reptilian!

Whatever.

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Yes, of course it's only conspiracy crazies who think white supremacy/white supremacists are a thing.

It's definitely as silly as believing in reptilians... *wink*

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How about not using it unilaterally about people just because they happen to be white.

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White supremacists are white. That's the way it works.

Definition in wikipedia:
White supremacy or white supremacism is the racist belief that white people are superior to people of other races and therefore should be dominant over them. White supremacy has roots in scientific racism, and it often relies on pseudoscientific arguments. Like most similar movements such as neo-Nazism, white supremacists typically oppose members of other races as well as Jews.

I can't believe you want a PC term for white supremacists instead of realizing that hatred is wrong.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

I’m no talking about the definition. I’m talking about the post you replied to. Which stated that it’s idiotic to call someone “white supremacist” just because it happens to be white, while missing the “supremacist” part.

Oh, a white, must be a “white supremacist”.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

You're hallucinating which is why I said you needed to wait until the effects of the glue wore off. There's a reason why they call it dope, dude.

Of course, it's about the definition!

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[deleted]

I just don't get all this 'white supremacy' hysteria.

Are there really that many 'chicken littles' or a just a very thin skinned vocal minority?. I just don't see it. We are arguably living in the most 'woke' period in human history.

What I DO see are a number of 'diverse' groups celebrating pride in their race, but heaven forbid if a white person is proud of what their culture has produced. It reminds me of that joke:

"I'm proud of my black skin said the black man, I'm proud of my brown skin said the brown man, I'm proud of my white skin said the racist".

Kinda begs the question, are all these 'proud' diverse really proud or are they secretly envious of white people and their culture. Like all those 'beautiful' fat positive (f)activists that proudly tell everyone that cares to listen just how beautiful they are. No one buys it and I suspect that they are jealous of skinny (read normal weighted) people.

Is someone a 'white supremacist' if they are happy that they were born white in a first world Western country / culture?. I know that I would rather be white living in Australia than black living in Somalia and I guarantee you that 90% of Somalians would agree. Then again maybe if I was born in Somalia I would prefer Somalia, who knows?.

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'White supremacist' is just a tool to silence criticism. Somebody says something 'incorrect' you don't wanna hear, you yell 'white supremacist!!' and that's it.

It's nothing new.

Before that, people has yelled 'fascist!', or 'nazi!' to silence critics. Or 'communist!'. Or 'jew lover!'. Or 'heresy!', or 'misbeliever!', or 'devil worshipper!'. To name a few.

Of course, nowadays somebody pointing at you while yelling 'misbeliever!' just raises a laugh, Church has no power anymore... but imagine it a couple of centuries ago, no fun with it, back then.

Movies create a strange distortion. In movies, the underdog is the hero, the guy that goes against the herd is the one that looks nicer. In real life, on the contrary, many people join the herd because that gives them power and status. You yell whatever sacred word works in your time (misbeliever! back then, white supremacist! now) and that gives you power over other people. Watch this thread: he yells, you can't, you need to argue.

In movies, the sanctimonious yelling 'misbeliever!' looks ridiculous. Often, he's being portrayed in a ridiculous way. Movies create that strange distortion that makes us believe that puritans were ridiculous and despised petty men. Actually, they had power and status, and they were puritans because that gave them power and status.

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Are you defending these people? If yes, why?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n12sjwk9FBE

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It doesn't sound that way to me.
I think they were referring to the casual use of calling white people racist or white supremacist and that whenever any white disagrees with some of their far left ideology they pull out this race card to shut them up and end the conversation. They don't want to actually listen..
The white supremacist in that video are not supported by the vast majority of whites; it is a fringe group... yet you give the impression that you think it's common.
That is what people are speaking to.

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"yet you give the impression that you think it's common."
Copy paste the sentence in which I wrote that.

Are you supporting these comments? :
"Everyone wants to go back in time to when the culture wasn't so degenerate."

"Robin Hood with blackies..."

People are stupidly writing about "white pride" without understanding that historically white supremacists, white nationalists, KKK, Nazis, white separatists and neo-Nazis use that term to pretend that they're not about hate.

""White Pride" is a white supremacist slogan appropriated from expressions of ethnic pride by various minority groups in the United States. White supremacists often use the slogan, or variations thereof, to deny any racism on their part, claiming that they are merely exhibiting "white pride."
https://www.adl.org/resources/glossary-terms/white-pride

Another important characteristic of white supremacy is to distort and deny black history which the OP started out by doing and many on this board are continuing. I'm a history buff, so when I read incorrect history, I correct it.

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Interesting. You really don't ever listen.
Who is it really that wants to deny history or to change or distort it to suit their own needs? The true facts of history are being erased every day because it doesn't fit into current culture. But how do we learn from the past if it's never allowed to exist?

I don't necessarily think there should be white pride or black pride or female or male pride or gay pride or heterosexual pride. We are what we are and not a one of us can change that. We are individuals and none of us can or should coast on the accomplishments or sufferings of our ancestors or suffer for their misdeeds..
What matter is who we are as individuals and the actions that we take as those individuals. ..Easier to jump on someone else mantel than to build our own,eh?
But their point was even saying the words "white pride" is like pushing a button for you is so glaring and you just don't see it..

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I noticed that you're deflecting. Where is the copy paste? You purposely mischaracterized me and own me an apology.

You're speaking gibberish. First you state that there shouldn't be any "pride" and then defend specifically "white pride" used by hate groups. You must identify with them.

BTW, are you operating out of St. Petersburg? Do you hate Putin?

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It sounds like you are supporting Dylann Roof. Am I correct?

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I don't know who the hell is Dylann Roof.

I guess it's some kind of white supremacist freak that wears nazi flags, or something like that. But you know what? you are the only ones that follow those guys, because you need them.

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Are you Russian, mate? It's bizarre for an American not to know of him.

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Denial and playing dumb about white supremacy & white supremacists is a standard tactic.

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It's a form of cowardice, too.



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Indeed but also effective and necessary in their view.

It helps them hide & peddle their thinly veiled rhetoric in neutral spaces with plausible deniability

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Game of Thrones had a black person, I think he played a pirate. Or are you also against blacks being used "negatively" if they're used at all?

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You mean, like The Witcher? That medieval fantasy Poland series where the main female character is from Pakistan, the character that representing germans is black, and nobody in the cast looks Polish.

Or like the Vikings series? The one with more black and Pakistani cast than blond ones?

Or like the BBC's documentary for kids about Ancient Rome where Romans were... black, no kidding. http://blogs.slj.com/afuse8production/files/2017/08/RomanBBC.png

This thread must be a joke.

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Or pathetic. Or both.

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BBC is revolting in that regard. And the excuses they come up with are so ludicrous.

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BBC has become a British-hate media. They actually hate their own culture. Last season of Doctor Who was so political that made Ken Loach movies look like popcorn ones in comparison.

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"Nil nimium studeo, Caesar, tibi velle placere,
nec scire utrum sis albus an ater homo.

I’m not overly anxious, Caesar, to please you,
Or to know whether you’re a white or a black man.

The Roman poet Catullus, now known for the erotic verse he wrote for Lesbia and Juventius, wasn’t particularly bothered about a man’s skin pigmentation (in this particular instance, that of Julius Caesar).

Black people have had a presence in our history for centuries. Get over it!
Africans have lived in Britain since the Roman empire.

Former teacher Mike Stuchbery responded by pointing out that “Roman Britain was ethnically diverse, almost by design”.

Mary Beard, professor of classics at the University of Cambridge, confirmed Britain under the Roman empire was ethnically diverse.

Rome’s empire stretched right along the coast of north Africa and sub-Saharan Africans passed to and fro across its porous southern border. The archaeological evidence, much of it based on relatively new forensic techniques such as isotope analysis, reinforces the historical record, indicating that Africans from both above and below the Sahara made their homes and built their lives in the British Isles. It has been research such as this that has given us the “ivory bangle lady”, a well-to-do, part-African resident of 3d-century York. More recently, the “Beachy Head lady”, the first black Briton known to us, has been discovered using a similar suite of forensic techniques.

The refusal to accept that the black presence in Britain has a long and deep history is not just a symptom of racism, it is a form of racism. It is part of a rearguard and increasingly unsustainable defence of a fantasy monochrome version of British history."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/12/black-people-presence-in-british-history-for-centuries

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Enough nonsense.

No, Britain was NOT ethnically diverse in the sense we're talking here. Of course, there were different Celt tribes, and Roman invaders, and some (very) minor influence from Celt and Basque tribes from the north of Spain. You could called it 'diverse' referring, for example, to diverse Celt tribes, but that's a different meaning from the one used in media (or in this thread). You can't pick terms in a different context, with a different meaning, and apply them freely because it serves your political agenda.

There were almost no foreign slaves in Britain, and that's logical: Roman went there to get slaves FROM there, not to bring slaves there. Patricians would bring their own slaves, but that's a small percentage.

Besides that, Romans didn't invade black Africa. Black slaves were exceptional cases, uncommon, some kind of exotic rarity, because you don't buy slaves when you can just take them for free from the territories you invaded. And in Britain, they were an exception inside and exception.

Lonely travelers were possible, but they were extraordinarily rare. Did Ancient Egyptians went to South-America?. Actually, it's accepted they went there. But you won't see documentaries about Pre-Columbian cultures with Ancient Egyptians all around, or newspapers selling the political agenda with some 'Historians say Ancient Egyptians have been living in South-America for centuries'... UNLESS there were some political neo-racist agenda.

As the one we have now in media.

You know what wasn't an exception? Black slave owners in US. Actually, slave owners were more common among free blacks than they were among whites. Blacks were heavily pro-slavery, they just wanted to be the slave owners instead of the slaves. How many have you seen in movies?.

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White supremacist nonsense. You're very ignorant. Have you graduated from high school?

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White supremacist nonsense. You're very ignorant. Have you graduated from high school?

So we're finally in the calling names phase. I see.

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[deleted]

It's only name-calling if untrue otherwise it's brutal honesty.

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No, it’s argument to the person all the same: you haven’t been graduated from high school, ergo, you know nothing. The argument ignores self-education, home schooling or blind luck. A lucky guess can still be the correct answer, just as a stopped clock is right twice a day, which is more than what most politicians can boast. This is why Platonic discourse demands an argument TO THE ARGUMENT and not to the person who is making the argument. It may indeed be tempting and satisfying to say, “You’re a lying sack of feces AND you like comic book movies,” but that doesn’t repudiate her/his argument—though we may wish it did!

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In other words, you are saying white supremacists are not ignorant and you support their hate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n12sjwk9FBE

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He didn't even connect the answer. I actually graduated with the highest grades in my promotion. But what's the point there? What matters are the arguments you present, I don't care whether you graduated or what degree you have.

Insults are insults, and he who resorts to them must be pointed as such.

EDIT In a commentary below, he states that Arabic is a language (instead of both a semitic people, Arabs or Arabic people, AND the language they spoke) and Moors were African ('Moor' popularized after the Spanish term 'Moro', which was the name given to Muslim invaders that came through Africa. Those invaders were mostly Arabic).

I suspect he keeps calling other people 'uneducate' to hide the fact that he's actually uneducated.

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"I actually graduated with the highest grades in my promotion. "
That doesn't say much about your competitors, does it?

You are uneducated when you double down on your own stupidity. Anyway, racists are usually ignorant which you are clearly demonstrating.

You also don't appear to be able to differentiate between a noun and an adjective. Have you ever met an Arab?

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And more insults...

Whatever.

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White supremacist

The problem when you over use that therm is that it loses its potency.

Don't get me wrong, I honestly don't want people like you to stop all this nonsense. You are not converting anyone that is not already living in LALA land, and if anything more and more people that are centrists are getting pushed further to the right, not by virtue of having their views changed, but by the fact the the left is getting more and more crazy. Just search YouTube for 'walkaway' testimonials, or /r/The_Donald. People proclaiming that they will never vote left are almost a daily occurrence.

So keep doing what you are doing. Seriously keep up this BS. At this rate Trump won't even have to campaign in 2020. It will honestly be a landslide.

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"It will honestly be a landslide. "
Unlikely.

You wouldn't be upset by the term "white supremacist" if you didn't identify with it.

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LOL re:Julius Caesar. No way he was a black. He has ZERO black DNA.

http://totallyhistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Julius-Caesar.jpg


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You are functionally illiterate. You can't follow two simple lines of poetry nor understand a clear explanation.

I suggest you reread it again slowly or get a grown-up to help you.

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Yeah, the blackies in ancient Rome were slaves.

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Nope.

In Rome, black slaves were exotic rarities.

And Romans went to Britain to get slaves, not to bring slaves there. Most slaves in Britain were local. Of course, rich guys could take their own personal slaves with them to Britain. So black slaves in Britain were an exception inside an exception.

Tigers are rare in Europe (zoos, perhaps some rich guy pet, but it's not common). Albino tigers are rare among tigers. Now, how many albino tigers is there in Europe? There could one, or maybe a couple of them? Sure. But if you start to see them in every movie set in Europe, you should wonder what's happening.

Here, when it comes to blacks in Ancient Britain, or in Middle Age England, or in Viking Scandinavia, we now exactly what's happening.

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wtf?

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Black and brown people lived in Medieval Europe! A few examples:

Black knights:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ds-jhDV25aQ/VC4k74fLupI/AAAAAAAACbA/Bk7G__YWVYY/s1600/African%2BKnights%2Bin%2BMedieval%2BEurope.jpg

Thriving African population in Portugal represented in painting. One figure that stands out on the bottom right is an Afro-Portuguese knight on horseback. His garment is endowed with the Herald of the order of Santiago.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5a95b1b031d4dfb0037059c5/t/5c2816da70a6adae0b1da7bb/1546197473001/Copy+of+Copy+of+Daily+Fod+Journal.png?format=1000w

In literature - Sir Morien who sat at King Arthur's roundtable. 1350 illuminated manuscript:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5a95b1b031d4dfb0037059c5/t/5c282e7c758d46566df59a8d/1546197473012/Copy+of+Copy+of+Daily+Fod+Journal+%282%29.png?format=1000w

The Black Saint Maurice: Knight of the Holy Lance:
https://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/ST-MAURICE-IN-MADGEBURG-225x300.jpg

In August 711, General Tarik ibn Ziyad won paramount victory over the opposing European army. Within a month’s time, Ziyad had effectively terminated European dominance of the Iberian Peninsula.
https://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/ST.-MAURICE-AS-A-KNIGHT-IN-SHINING-ARMOR.-PHOTO-BY-RUNOKO-RASHIDI-225x300.jpg

I'm not sure how there is white supremacy when the Europeans were defeated by the Moors.

OP needs to open a history book!

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There were living dragons in Middle Age Europe.

Green two-legs dragon:
https://alina_stefanescu.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341ce39f53ef017c35fa174c970b-600wi

Traditional European Dragon fight, a classical Middle Age entertainment:
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bdc13f85289e35b4d9f6b1193db3662d-c

Dragons used as pets,
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/76/28/45/762845c550e495db37afbc877925da62.jpg

They appear in ancient manuscripts too:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/St_George_and_the_Dragon_Verona_ms_1853_26r.jpg

Of course, there were no dragons (just in case you start to think they really existed ^_^). They were mythical creatures represented by painters and writers. The same happened with people from distant territories, that were known and could serve as inspiration, but that DOESN'T mean they were actually living in Europe.

As an example, you have portrayed Saint Maurice in several of your links, and it's not clear whether he ever existed, or he was just a literary figure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Maurice

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The invasion and conquer by the Moors in 700 ad is common knowledge. Are you really that uneducated?

There are many Medieval fairs and festivals where I'm located in which they constantly give information about black people living in Europe at the time. I suggest you attend one in your area and learn something instead of trying to promote white supremacy.

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The invasion and conquer by the Moors in 700 ad is common knowledge. Are you really that uneducated?

Ahem... Moors weren't black. They were Arabic and Persian. (roll eyes here)

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Arabic is a language.

The Moors originated from North Africa. Persia isn't in North Africa.

"Are you really that uneducated?"
I guess you are!



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• Arabic is a language.

'Arabic' refers both to a language and to a semitic people from the south ('arab' or 'arabian', adj. 'arabic').

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

• The Moors originated from North Africa. Persia isn't in North Africa.

'Moors' became a common term after the Spanish 'Moros' that was a derogatory term for Muslim invaders (and which comes probably from Latin or Greek). Most of those invaders were Arabic. They came THROUGH North Africa, not FROM North Africa. There were other ethnic groups, as Persian or Bereber. For example, Ziryab, a famous singer and intellectual from Al-Andalus, was Persian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziryab

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kuku, I really want you to be smarter than you're demonstrating.

We both know that you need to link to the CORRECT word. If you can't provide supporting links, then you already lost your argument. Understand?

I'll use Cambridge online dictionary to make things simple. Pay attention!

Arabic - a language spoken in Western Asia and North Africa:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/arabic

Arab - a person from Western Asia or North Africa who speaks Arabic as a first
language; belonging to or relating to Arabs or their countries: The Arab countries include Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Egypt.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/arab?q=Arab

Moor - a member of the group of Muslim people from North Africa who ruled Spain from 711 to 1492
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/moor

BTW, your deflection re: Ziryab is a terrible example. Your link clearly states that his NATIONALITY or place of birth was Persia. His ETHNICITY is disputed as being "either African, Arab, Kurdish, or Persian."

You do know that a Persian is NOT an Arab, right?

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Ok. I see. You have just a very basic knowledge from History. Probably this is why you keep insulting and calling people uneducated.

Anyway, what follows is for whoever is reading this thread and can be interested.

Spain was invaded by the Umayyad Caliphate, which we could say it was a Muslim equivalent to Roman Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Caliphate. (There were several Caliphates, but they just were basically the same, one after each other, like the Roman Empire after the Roman Republic, or the Chinese Dynasties one after another). That Caliphate was based in Damascus, Middle East, and in a nutshell, it was a Empire founded by Mohammad (who was a military leader himself).

The Muslim invaders ('moors') were mostly from Arabic ethnicity, though there were people from other areas of the Empire, like Persia, North Africa ('berbers'), Kurdishtan, North Semitic tribes of Middle East and so. Black Muslims from Africa too? Sure, but a low number. When the Cambridge Dictionary defines moor as 'a member of the group of Muslim people from North Africa who ruled Spain from 711 to 1492', it's a bit lousy (you could consider West Middle East as North Africa, technically, but it's misleading).

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Much better. I only insult when I believe posters are playing dumb or doubling down on what they know is incorrect.

The original topic wasn't about Moors, but the black presence in Medieval Europe. The reality is that throughout history, humans migrated around the world, traded with each other, waged warfare in different territories and intermarried. There were Europeans in Africa and Africans in Europe since antiquity. ALL people migrated.

"Black Muslims from Africa too? Sure, but a low number."
My point was that there was a black and brown presence in Europe which the OP was unaware.

Anyway during that era, the world was dominated by the Ottoman Empire, Persia, India and China which represented 80% of the world's economy and 2/3 of production. Europe didn't gain dominance until later.

BTW, Arab-Americans were upset that the government was classifying them as white on the census. Obviously, they are diversified racially. In the 2020 census, they will have a category that says Arab-American.

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No, no, no. The world wasn't dominated by the Ottoman Empire during the Medieval era.

Again, for whoever is reading this thread: Ottoman Empire started at the High Middle Age, but its rise to power, the fall of Constantinople, is accepted as the END of the Middle Age. Ottoman Empire dominated during the Modern Age, NOT during the Middle Age.

Whatever.

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Agreed.

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The moors weren't black you dumbass. Is there anything more cringe than american blacks with their sense of inferiority.

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White European Medieval artists and writers disagree with you.

"Arabs, Moors and Christians" 1254 AD
http://www.lisapoyakama.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/maure-9.jpg

Moorish dignitaries playing chess 1283 AD
http://www.lisapoyakama.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/north-africa-5.jpg

Abu Bakar 1413 AD
http://africanknowledge.weebly.com/uploads/1/4/9/8/14980458/3005970_orig.jpg

Knight
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQuWtI1Nok15EBPjVETH4AZ_U-X-QdvbNe2bo9Ap4IOo92aJspm

Open up a history book and read it to cure your ignorance.

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Enough bullshit.

'Moors' is used in practice to refer to Muslim invaders in Europe. There were black Muslims, because Muslims invaded some black areas, but those black Muslims didnt invade Europe.

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"White European Medieval artists and writers disagree with you."

Take it up with their ghosts.

Your denial only demonstrates your lack of ability to learn new information. I hope you're a Russian troll because I would hate to think that anyone is as stupid as you appear to be.

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It's funny how a black american with his "muh wakandas moor kangz" fantasies tells an iberian who are the moors when the word originated here in the first place to distinguish the muslims from the christians during the reconquista and had nothing to do with race whatsoever. Fucking american blacks infecting everything with their inferiority complex and wanting the world to be blacks vs whites.

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I smell a troll, and you stink, pal.

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This is a stupid fucking thread.

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Game of Thrones has the Unsullied, probably the best light infantry in all of Westeros/Essos combined.

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