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Tyrion has burned WAAAAY more people alive than Danerys.

posted 7 years ago by Otter (24464)
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Remember the Battle of Blackwater Bay, where 100,000 soldiers followed Stannis into a wildfire bath and most of them were blown to bits or burned alilve? And it was all Tyrion's idea and done at his command?

So what the hell is he suddenly getting all squeamish about now! It's totally out of character, he knows what warfare is about, he jshould just be telling Danerys that it might be impolitic to actually feed people to the dragons. In front of witnesses, anyway.

[–] Gastonian (946) 7 years ago

Well he's probably got buyers remorse on that one. Meaning he probably feels a combo of guilt for having done that and regret especially considering how he was treated by everyone after that event and he's projecting onto Dany.

I wouldn't say its out of character, I think he's just being a hypocrite.

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

I doubt Tyrion has any remorse about that one, Stannis would have been a terrible king, worse than Cersei, and that was the only way for a badly outnumbered Hand-of-the-king to stop him from taking the Iron Throne.

But now he's being a weenie about Danerys using the dragons in battle and making an example of two people. Hell, good Ned Stark executed people, Jon executed Janos Flynt for disobeying his orders, making an example of small numbers of people is business as usual in Westeros and everyone does it. It's even considered a merciful way to deal with a problem, because if you make an example you kill one or two instead of many.

No, it's totally out of character for a Hand-of-a-Queen to be squeamish about it.

[–] Gastonian (946) 7 years ago

He's being a hypocrite. Also, I think most people have a tendency to want their rulers/leaders to be better than them.
And no, Stannis would not have been worse than Cersei.

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

Actually, Stannis would have been a worse monarch than Cersei. Cersei doesn't give a rat's ass about the smallfolk, she mostly ignores them and only blows them to bits if they're near a target like Margarey, but Stannis had to have everyone obey him in every little thing or he'd throw a fit and yes, burn them alive as sacrifices to the Red God. Hell, he'd probably have started a religious war and tried to impose Red Godditude on Westeros, not because he was a passionate believer but because he'd thought it was his duty if Melisandre had carried him to victory.

And I still say it's not only out of character for Tyrion to be squeamish, it's out of character for him to be a hypocrite. He knows what it takes to win wars, and he's so totally open about his flaws and vices and what he's done. He should be as honest and open about his methods of defeating Stannis as he is about his drunkenness.

[–] Gastonian (946) 7 years ago

That's your opinion. Its sort of self defeating in your assessment of Cersei but it doesn't matter since Stannis is dead.

As for Tyrion, agree to disagree. Anyone is capable of being a hypocrite. Anyone is capable of selective moral outrage. Happens on this show all the time with many characters.

[–] Gastonian (946) 7 years ago

Also with regard to Tyrion: The argument can be made that there is a big difference between using wildfire as an advantage in a war where the odds are pretty much even in terms of manpower and weapons and a war where one side has three dragons. From that point of view, one could say that he does have the moral high ground.

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

It is true that Tyrion was defending his city and Danerys is staging an invasion, which does give Tyrion a little moral advantage.

But Tyrion signed up to be part of the invasion, knowing perfectly well what war is about, knowing how much killing it takes to win a major war, and knowing that his side's chief weapons were the dragons. I still say it's out of character for either Tyrion or Varys to be squeamish about things at this point, they knew what they were getting into.

[–] fishpan (544) 7 years ago

I don't think it is as much she did it. It is the fact she burnt them while having to be continually talked out of taking all three dragons and burning King's landing.

It is the fact that she had to be talked out of burning the other cities that attacked Mereen.

Sure she isn't acting on it at the moment but she is bringing up that she could burn everything when she is frustrated or angry or just wants to be the most powerful one in the room. And now she is showing she is capable of following through on that.

Tyrion is seeing that even tho she is a good person Dany has a go to move of burning stuff and that is how it started with her dad

[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

I agree, plus the 2 Tarly imbeciles basically chose that death.

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

Well, Tarly Sr. did make a try at saving his son, but he did it so clumsily and dickishly that it didn't work.

He really was an awful person and a horrible father, exiling one son and getting another killed. If anyone says Danerys was a bad person for killing him I'm going to jump down their throats.

[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

She gave them an easy way out and they both choose to die.
They were not loyal or honorable, they were just idiots. Cersei burned tons of innocent people alive, those people at the Sept never had a choice like the Tarlys did.

[–] Kingscheme (66) 7 years ago

Well everyone knows Cersei is evil.

[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

Even the Tarlys know she's evil, they know she blew up the Sept and killed all of the Tyrells, and they still decided to die for her. That's what I mean: STUPID.
If they had been dying for someone they really believed in, someone they truly supported in their hearts, like the way Jorah is devoted to Dany, then it might at least have some kind of honor to it. But they were just like "oh well, we picked our side and it was a bad side but now we are stuck with it".
NO DUMBASS, you're not stuck! All you have to do is flip AGAIN like you have done very recently, and you can live. You know how to flip sides, we've seen you do it. You don't even have to be sincere, you just have to make the show of bending the knee. And they wouldn't do it. BYE FELICIA!

[–] Kingscheme (66) 7 years ago

I'm with you they were idiots for not bending the knee because they were being loyal to Cersei.

[–] ShogunofYonkers (78051) 7 years ago

It was pretty messed up
1. Lord Tarly was the equal of the American Civil War Confederate General Robert E. Lee-
hard hitting,fast moving,completely frustrating to superior forces/numbers...a phantom that appeared out of nowhere and whipped the great Robert Baratheons ass on the open field like nonother Targ bannaerman could
2. Despite the fact that he was a total jerk he was STILL worth political points...a live and great general is a bargaining chip
Dany has a lot to learn....

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

I don't know if Tarly would have been much of a bargaining chip, if the bargaining was to be with Cersei. She's very indifferent to the lives of her inferiors.

And he served plenty of use as was, once he was toasted the rest of the defiant holdouts bent the knee. And that's the value of making an example of some dick, kill one horribly and all the rest obey from then on! And that way, there are two executions instead of 200.

[–] Gastonian (946) 7 years ago

Yeah, agreed, I don't see how he was worth any political bargaining points following that battle. He basically served his purpose by getting the gold to KL.

[–] Kawada_Kira (7282) 7 years ago

Tyrion did what he had to do to win a battle. He didn't burn unarmed prisoners. That's why he views it differently.

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

On yes, burning 80,000 people alive is SO much more ethical than burning two, because it was self-defense!

And she didn't just burn unarmed prisoners for the fun of it. Notice that there were a lot of Lannister men refusing to kneel, and it's true that you can't keep prisoners of war with a dragon-and-Dothraki army. So she had a choice between winning them over, letting them go and knowing they'd attack her again, or executing anyone who wouldn't be won over. By making an example of those that Tarly dick she was able to win the rest of the holdouts over to her side, and spare their lives. That's how you do things in warrior societies if you put any value on human life, and if you're Cersei and don't, then you just execute all the survivors.

[–] Kawada_Kira (7282) 7 years ago

I said nothing of her burning people for the fun of it. I'm one of the few people on this board who's on Team Daenerys, as I'm sure I've made clear here before. I'm just explaining Tyrion's line of thought.

But yes I do think that killing people in battle is different from killing prisoners of war. In the battle of King's Landing, one side or the other was going to be massacred. Had Stannis' army won, the city would have been sacked and the Lannisters would have been executed, including Tyrion himself. It was a "them or us" situation. And thousands are going to die anyway in a battle. Moreover, King's Landing was weakly defended, as the bulk of Joffrey's forces were with Tywin Lannister elsewhere; the city itself was defended by the Gold Cloaks and maybe some Lannister soldiers. The wildfire was a way of compensating for the city's weakness, evening the playing field. I'm sure Tyrion didn't enjoy killing those people, but people die in battle by one means or another.

[–] Master_Lo (309) 7 years ago

The white-haired bitch just repeats SJW bullshit about "saving people". She's full of shit. Also, she tainted Westeros with dothraki savages. That's a crime.