Lost respect for Jaimie - Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion

[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

He doesn't have many options.

His choice is lead a huge army, while fucking the queen.

Or run off and be a lonely cripple who everyone in westeros wants to kill except brienne and tyrion.

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[–] Eddym123 (156) 7 years ago

Who wants to kill him? He could join the others in the quest to bring down Cersei or just disappear into obscurity.

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[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

Dany wants him dead for murdering her father. Jon snow wants him dead for murdering Robb.

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[–] Eddym123 (156) 7 years ago

At this point and with what she knew about her father and what he was going to do, she no longer has a justifiable reason to kill Jamie, considering she called her father evil. However, his support of Cersei at this point is what puts a target on his head. How did he have anything to do with Robb's death? He never ordered Bolton to kill Robb.

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[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

He ordered freys to kill Robb and every stark. Bolton was just an opportunist. If you missed that. It was hammered home again last season towards the end when jaime dined with Walder frey. It's an important plot point. But it's not worth bothering about because Jaime is not giving up everything to risk being accepted by these people who he has genocided their families

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[–] Eddym123 (156) 7 years ago

When was this? Are you watching an different show? Tywin ordered the starks to be slayed at the wedding. Jamie had nothing to do with it.

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[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

Lol. Ok. So you think Jaime would have advised tywin against allying with the freys and boltons against the Starks. Haven't heard that before. Lol. Whatever you want to believe man. But Jaime thought of the freys as good loyal allies. And he is showing no signs of warranting any of the excuses you are making for him

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[–] Eddym123 (156) 7 years ago

I see, so you went from saying that Jamie himself was responsible for the Starks getting massacred and now you are saying......floundering around to try and not come across as what you actually are..WRONG. I love how you are taking a tone of condescension on a matter you are flat out wrong about. Jamie was still making his way to Kings Landing with Brienne while all this occurred. You may as well say that Jon would hold Tyrion responsible as well, you fool.

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[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

Lol. I am not wrong. Jaime Lannister is responsible for Robb's death. You can call me names till your blue in the face. But it's a fact. He is the head of the army that Robb was rebelling against. Funny how you parse out blame. Arya doesn't. Neither do any of the characters in this show. There is a reason Martin is t releasing the books until this show is done being silly

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[–] Eddym123 (156) 7 years ago

I am not calling you names, I am merely telling you what you are. Your somewhat "special" in the head aren't you?

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[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

Troll identified. You suck dude

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[–] Eddym123 (156) 7 years ago

Do you even know what a troll is? Or was it your last resort when you are proven wrong. Instead of gracefully admitting to being wrong you use the troll defense?

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[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

I always admit when I am wrong. In this case I am not. If your hypothesis is that Jaime was not complicit in Robb's death that is absurd. I suggest you take a second to rethink your life. Any stark will kill Jaime Lannister on sight.

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[–] Eddym123 (156) 7 years ago

So you are intellectually limited. You don't even know what complicit means. A person who is ignorant to A crime or plan is not complicit. I will end it here, no point in arguing with the limited. Also, Tywin was the commander of the Lannister army and the Red wedding did not involve any Lannisters. Arya didn't kill Jamie and she was at the twins during the Red Wedding and when she took revenge on the Freys and she spotted him. I dont here her saying she is going to kill him. She never mentions him on her list.

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[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

Japanese Chinese can't read it

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[–] jinker (75) 7 years ago

When you say; I will end it here did you mean I will end it further down or here?

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[–] Eddym123 (156) 7 years ago

The conversationltion with that specific user.

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[–] asdf1234 (57) 7 years ago

Jamie also pushed Bran down the tower, and ordered someone to kill Bran with that stainless steel dagger(may be he plotted that with Cersei) .

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[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

I agree. I had hopes that he would show some backbone after he finds out she blew up the Sept with wildfire. He killed the mad king for exactly that same reason.
But all Cersei has to do is give him one BJ, and he's like back to the same scumbag Jaime that pushed Bran out the window.He's Cersei's puppet boy toy again. He did look mightly fine on that white horse though.

I don't really blame them for killing Olenna and Ellaria. They killed them using the same methods that were used to murder their children. So there is a cruel justice to it. Joffrey deserved it but Myrcella did not.

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[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

Cersei means more to Jamie than the Mad Kind did though. Jamie gave up a lot to be with her including inheriting Casterly Rock or having legitimate recognized heirs of his. I don't even think he has been with any other woman other than Cersei whereas she has been with different men aside from him. Cersei has always been Jamie's weakness, the one he followed throughout his life. And I don't think he has ever loved another as much as he loves Cersei. In their relationship, she is the older twin and has always had a strong influence on him. Which is why it would be so satisfying for him to finally let her go and step out of her shadow and be the little brother to end her.

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[–] brux (14736) 7 years ago

A good BJ can fix a lot!

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[–] Eddym123 (156) 7 years ago

Killing Olenna was not Justifiable, they did not know she was behind his death until after she drank the poison. They killed her for siding with Dany and for their gold. Cersei likely wanted her dead for merely being a Tyrell.

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[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

She's a traitor to the crown, who is lending money and troops to a foreign invader. As a servant of the Queen of Westeros, it was Jamie's duty to reconquer rebellious lands and execute the traitor-in-chief. It was decent of him to allow her a dignified exit and a verbal parting shot, but then he's always been capable of a limited amount of decency.

A VERY limited amount. He may be charming and witty, but at his core he's Cersei's devoted slave, devoted to the Lannister cause, and a crashing snob. And he's like his father in that he has no moral center, instead, he has standards. That's why he let Lady Tyrell leave this life in dignity and no pain, but let Ellaria Sand suffer horribly in a dungeon. One is everything an aristocrat should be, the other is a jumped-up trollop.

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[–] Eddym123 (156) 7 years ago

I understand what you are saying, but his justification is warped as he knows full well why things are the way they are. Cersei gave the sparrows power to strike at the Tyrells. It backfired on her and she is being charged for crimes she committed. She remedies the issue by blowing up the sparrows, other Lannisters and all of the Tyrells and hundreds of innocent people in an act that he killed his previous king for. And he goes after Olenna for being a traitor to the Crown? He has to know she does not have the same love for him as he has for her.

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[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

Jamie isn't just loyal to Cersei out of romantic and sexual love, he's loyal because he can't get away and has to stick it out no matter what she does. She's not only his queen, which really does count for a lot, she's also part of the same great house.

In that society the family is everything and the individual is nothing, even if the individual walks away from the family, the family's enemies and feuds still stick. If he leaves he's still an enemy of most of the big fish in Westeros, but House Lannister will no longer protect him and the queen becomes his enemy. Even if he comes to hate Cersei, he can't leave her.

But he can kill her. Like he did with Aerys.

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[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

'but let Ellaria Sand suffer horribly in a dungeon. '

Yes but Jamie had to WATCH his completely innocent daughter die in a horrible way, just minutes after she told him she knew he was her father and that she loved him. That is unspeakably heartbreaking and cruel, so I really don't blame him for not showing mercy to Ellaria.
Ellaria avenged Oberyn by killing an innocent child. TWO innocent children- she also ordered the death of Trystane Martell.
Simply beheading her would not have been enough.

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[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

He also watched Joffrey die a horrible death, and I wonder... Olenna didn't confess until she'd taken the painless poison. If she'd confessed without poison on board, would he have felt obligated to make her suffer?

Incidentally, I'll bet you ten bucks that Olenna had her own vial of painless poison sewn into her gown during that scene. She wouldn't want to be dragged back to King's Landing for Cersei to play with.

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[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

I don't think Jamie waging a war against the Tyrells who are part of Dany's army now and giving Olenna a dignified painless death is all that bad. Whether he agrees or not with Cersei, he has always been shown to be loyal to her and more in love with her than she is to him. And I think Jamie will be the little brother to kill Cersei so they have to save up all of his doubts until the last minute when he finally executes her, just like he did with the Mad King. I'm thinking more of how Vader was in The Empire Strikes Back and was battling what he was seeing and finally ending his Master, I think that is what will happen to Jamie.

Honestly, all this redemption arch of Jamie seems like GRRM merely changed his mind about his character. Jamie's character now or his supposed hidden misunderstood character doesn't seem to fit with the same guy who nonchalantly pushes a 9 year old Lordling out of the window stating 'What I do for love.' Seems like two very different characters to me.

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[–] Kawada_Kira (7282) 7 years ago

I think Cersei blowing up the Sept was a turning point, but he's taking a while getting there. I mean, consider the fact that, as evil as she is, she's not only his lifelong lover but also his twin sister, and the last family he has other than Tyrion. Even without the incest factor, twins have a particular bond. It's not so easy to break the kind of attachment that Jaime and Cersei have. But that doesn't mean things aren't heading in that direction. We have to try to think of these characters as people in their own right, not just as what we imagine they should be.

I'm a big Olenna fan, but I didn't have a problem with how Jaime dealt with her. In the context, it was mercy. Jaime had no choice but to fight her, and if he didn't give her a painless, peaceful death then Cersei would have given her a far worse one. Jaime did the best he could under the circumstances.

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[–] winslow (1318) 7 years ago

Olenna planted a seed of doubt in him before she died. It goes back to Olenna killing Joffrey, then Cersei blaming it on Tyrion when she knew it probably wasn't him. If that didn't happen, Tyrion wouldn't have been on trial, Oberyn would not have been killed, Myrcella would not have died and Jaime would not have had to watch her die, knowing he was powerless to save her. Olenna wants Jaime to know this more than she does Cersei. It was her hatred for Tyrion that got their daughter killed, and she even called Tommen a traitor in the first episode this season. Now with Euron inserting himself into the situation, she wants Jaime to wonder how long it will be before she turns on him, too. I expect something will happen to make Jaime believe she is trying to kill him and it causes him to kill her. Though the truth would be that she still loved him, and it was someone like Euron who was stirring the pot.

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[–] Eddym123 (156) 7 years ago

I was thinking that he may believes that Cersei is stringing Euron along. I highly doubt that Cersei will fulfill her promise to Euron and marry him.

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[–] winslow (1318) 7 years ago

Yeah, he believes that now, but outside influences could gradually make him believe the opposite, that she and Euron are conspiring to kill him or otherwise push him out. But it won't be true, she would really still love him. That's the setup for a classical tragedy, and fitting for her to be killed by someone (the only one) she loves.

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[–] Eddym123 (156) 7 years ago

Did you believe that Jamie actually discussed it with Cesei and ultimately convincing her to have Olenna poisoned with a painless concoction?

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[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

I'm a big Olenna fan, but I didn't have a problem with how Jaime dealt with her. In the context, it was mercy. Jaime had no choice but to fight her, and if he didn't give her a painless, peaceful death then Cersei would have given her a far worse one. Jaime did the best he could under the circumstances.

When Cersei was in similar circumstances, she had a poison prepared and almost poisoned herself and Tommen. I don't know how typical this is for Westerosi ladies after defeat in a battle, but I'm sure that Olenna could've done the same if she wanted to. She probably didn't poison herself only because she wanted Jamie to find out about her role in Joffrey's murder.

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[–] NorthernLad (472) 7 years ago

I thought it would be a turning point for him as well. But so far...it's just been more of the same. Just how whipped he is by his sister/lover. It really has become somewhat tiresome.

And while I'm at it...as I've thought on it...I enjoy the show...and I like this season...but so far...I really expected more. But it has really just been more of the same: The Lannisters being evil and getting by with everything.

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[–] Eddym123 (156) 7 years ago

I know, it is tiresome. Futhermore she seems to be flirting with Euron in front of him without any regard of how it is obviously bothering him. He is still her bitch.

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[–] Barclays (960) 7 years ago

There are some really nice theories in this thread.

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[–] GunWillTravel (198) 7 years ago

How much respect do you usually have for guys engaged in a lifetime of incest, who try to murder children in order to hide their incestuous ways?

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[–] Eddym123 (156) 7 years ago

With game of thrones you have to alter your moral compass otherwise you will hate everyone.

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[–] GunWillTravel (198) 7 years ago

1. I'm fine with hating everyone who murders children. Good if they can be redeemed, of course, and try to make amends for what they have done. But also fine if they get their hands chopped off, die painfully by poison, etc. The show is actually very enjoyable if you hate such people, because it's pretty certain that they're going to meet justice.

2. Liking and hating are not the same as respecting and not respecting. Sure, plenty of characters in GoT have likeable qualities, and Jaime is mostly a likeable guy, as long as you're not named Stark. But if you respect people who murder children, you don't actually respect anything.

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[–] Eddym123 (156) 7 years ago

I'm not going to discuss moral relativity wit you on a fictional show.

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[–] Nirzhormahmud (137) 7 years ago

Just One blow job shattered 3-4season long building up villain to fan fvrt character.
We men really like our dick more than anything else. Period.

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