Sansa continues to annoy with epic efficiency (spoilers through and including S7 E2) - Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion

[–] Nipsey_Russell (1339) 7 years ago

Yeah her whininess is making me wish Joffrey was still alive to put her back in her place

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[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

As far as strategy goes, I think her plan was better politically, (rewarding the loyal houses) but she should not have disagreed with Jon in front of everyone. She basically pushed him into a corner of saying "my word is final", because he didn't want to capitulate and look weak. If she had gone to him beforehand, in private, then they could have hashed it out and picked a plan and presented a unified front to the rest of the nobles.
In short: Mom and Dad do your arguing in private, not in front of the kids.

also:
Sansa admires Cersei now??

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[–] Drmccormack (743) 7 years ago

Your last point is worrisome. Cersei is awful but, one has to admit, she's pretty canny. I really don't want Sansa to join up with Little Finger! She knows how horrible he is, so it just doesn't make sense. Maybe she's realizing more ambition and will plot to with him towards the goal of herself on the iron throne? Does she think she can throw him over and take the throne herself? She's never mentioned be interested in that.

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[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

I don't find Cersei smart. she is never 1 or 2 steps ahead. She just blows shit up and has no idea what to do after that. She has no long game. What is this legacy she's yammering about? Her inbred kids are all dead. she's too old to have more children. Jaime still could have some more kids with a younger wife, but Cersei is the end of her line.
All she has is an underfunded army and The Mountain. And her army is spread too thin defending her on 4 sides. Jaime had it right- she's queen of three kingdoms, at best! She's basically only queen of Kings Landing. She has a city, not a kingdom.

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[–] Drmccormack (743) 7 years ago

She's not an admirable figure but she was able to hide her affair with her brother since she was a teenager, she successfully plotted her husband's murder, she was able to coax that new Maester to do her bidding and she was able to fool her husband into thinking their children were legitimate. I agree, though, her plans haven't been well thought out in the last three seasons.

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[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

Robert was drunk all the time so it's not that hard to fool him. I chalk that up to his dumbness, not to her smartness.

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[–] Drmccormack (743) 7 years ago

Lol, true, true!

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[–] NorthernLad (472) 7 years ago

I don't find Cersei that intelligent either. Sure...she's queen but she has most of the world aiming to destroy her right now. If she was intelligent, she should have been able to avoid that fact alone.

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[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

She's not too old to have kids both in the books and on the show. And the actress playing Cersei just gave birth a year or two ago.

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[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

Well yeah she can now with 21st century first world medical help, that doesn't always translate to an iron age fictional universe. But I suppose she could have more kids.

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[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

That's not true, women who have given birth before have easier pregnancies and births after. And not all births by 30 years olds and up are caesarians. Look at history, many women had 10-13 children in the past well into their 40s, sometimes older even.

The body generally knows when it's too dangerous for women to have kids through menopause or the least likelihood of a pregnancy. And many women today still get pregnant without invitro, sometimes even 60 year olds can get pregnant though unlikely, like that Italian woman.

You also forget Tywin wanting to marry Cersei off for an alliance because she was still a young woman and was still fertile. Even the Greyjoy in this first episode wouldn't have proposed marriage if she was unlikely to bare children for an heir.

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[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

Lena Heady is not in her 30's though.
In the iron age, most women would be grandmother's by their 40's.

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[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

No one said she was in her 30s but her character is.

Dany was married off at 13, let's say she got pregnant immediately and gave birth at 14, and that child was a female who in turn got married and had given birth at 14 as well - that would make Dany 28 as a grandmother. Being a grandmother at the age of 28 does not prevent them from still being fertile and youthful. And as such grandmothers in their 30s & 40s, does not negate their fertility in those ages as well.

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[–] winslow (1318) 7 years ago

Cersei said she learned from her father, so she will probably try to be like him, but instead end up as the Mad Queen. This doesn't look good for Jaime because he often opposed his father and killed the Mad King.

Sansa is subtly taking on some of Cersei's traits. She had the same hairstyle and when she told Littlefinger she was sure he would say something clever, it sounded a lot like Cersei. All she needs to do now is start talking with clenched teeth and she will make a good impression of her. I doubt she's going there for real, but trying in some way to gain the upper hand against Littlefinger.

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[–] keithmovies (627) 7 years ago

I'm thinking that because Sansa has been repeatedly exposed to the vagaries of evil/ruthless people she thinks the only way to survive is to punish your enemies ruthlessly and reward those who ally themselves with you- there is go grey area or exceptions. She feels very strongly about this and is determined to prevent it happening again in her life.

For Jon the two constant themes in his life have been loyalty versus disloyalty and fighting for others to protect them. He's seen evil of different kinds and has struggled against them but in a sense they were easily encapsulated has been "over there" whilst his friends were "over here". He is committed to honourable conduct and inspiring loyalty.

They're not really on the same page yet they share a desire for order and peace. Sansa has never seen the White Walkers so perhaps doesn't realise how critical a threat they are and that it renders all other conflicts mute by comparison - the priority in reality is unity and the survival of the race of men. Littlefinger only serves as a distraction to perpetuate Sansa's fears and inclination to play power politics - he hopes to exercise power through her but first must gain her trust and willingness to listen to him. She feels obliged to keep him near because he helped to topple Ramsay Bolton but knows very well he has plans to manipulate her in his own way.

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[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

This is a good point- Jon and Sansa are from different worlds now. Jon is from the fantasy/supernatural world. He's resurrected after all. He is now creature of magic, not a creature of nature.
Sansa is from the human/natural/political world. More like our world. Maybe that is why I feel like her idea was a good one in political terms. In a normal natural world like ours, that would be the best plan.
In Jon's world of magic and zombies, the normal rules no longer apply. He doesn't really care about politics and power and being king. He's fighting for all the living humans, regardless of house or alliances. I think his challenge will be trying to get other people to care more about the supernatural battle when they haven't seen the enemy they are up against. People like Sansa and littlefinger are still focused on the human battles.

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[–] Nirzhormahmud (137) 7 years ago

Ur explanation is great! Completely agree with that. Look at the journey of this 2 characters through the series. Jon goes far north to join the nights watch, other hand sansa goes to far south with his father to live in kingslanding. And through those years jon experienced with wild folks, giants, cannivals, army of dead, night kings, resurrection etc etc, which of those are legends and myths to the human world for thousands of years. On the other hands, Sansa experienced human lust, hate, cruelty, ugly politics, betrayal, rape; all kinds of darkside of human characters. So their decisions on any matter and priority on any matter will never be same. "Never seen, never happen" thats the humans natural psychology . So night kings is less important to sansa like threat from south is less important to jon.
Overall the cold indecision moments between them since they meet, is the brilliance of the tv series directors. Many of viewers don't get it.

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[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

There are theories that by the end of the series, all the magic in this world will have to die.
Jon, Dany, Beric, Melisandre, Lady Stoneheart, shadow babies, dragons, giants, Mountain Zombie/Ser Robert, Bran, Night's King, all the wights, all the children of the forest. Every resurrected dead thing, every supernatural thing.
All the magical elements will be killed with science, and the humans will take over the world.

Come to think of it, Sansa is the only Stark left who does not have some magical element now. Jon, Bran and Arya all have some superpower. (well Jon's not really a Stark but his mom was)

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[–] shoolaroon (29) 7 years ago

Love this site, but one thing I would add is being able to like great posts like yours - well said!

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[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

Actually, their arguing acted as a goid-cop-bad-cop routine and ended up being a very effective bit of manipulation. Instead of being defiant or smug the new heads oh House Umber and House Karstark were first wetting their pants with terror, and the relieved and grateful at being forgiven. They are now much more eager to please the Starks than they would be if either Jon or Sansa had just fone what they wanted.

Which means that Jon and Sansa have to learn to work together, and would be a strong team if they did.

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[–] Gastonian (946) 7 years ago

Yesterday I listened to the commentary for Battle of The Bastards on the blu-ray. Sophie Turner was on that track. Never mind her character. The actress is really obnoxious.

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[–] brux (14736) 7 years ago

It's your posts that are hated.
John Snow very nearly got everyone killed because of his hot-headeness,
and now he is going to do the same thing again. The Starks have a blind
spot that gets them and lots of others killed.

Sansa is thoughtful enough to think on things.

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[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

Jon Snow learned nothing from the plot among the Night Watch that got him killed. He's too willing to give people second chances. This is noble, but reckless. What was that about "children shouldn't be responsible for their fathers' crimes". Those children will be instantly brainwashed by the rest of their families to avenge their fathers. I wouldn't trust them one bit.

Sansa on the other hand learned by observing the best plotters and schemers in the kingdom. I think she raised valid questions, but she confronted Jon the wrong way. She also has much to learn.

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[–] brux (14736) 7 years ago

Well said. That is one of many of good things about this series ... it shows the real defects in the characters instead of trying to make them heroes or villains, the characters are multi-dimensional.

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[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

Yes I agree- Sansa's plan was the better plan. Those Umber and Carstark fealty oaths looked stately and moving, but they will not be loyal. They're fuckin weasels.
I just don't agree with Sansa arguing the point in front of everyone. I think if she and Jon hashed it out in private then he'd have listened to her. But when she does it in front of everyone, he basically HAS to say "Nope, I'm the boss my word is final I'm the king nya nyah." He's boxed into the corner of rigidity. And not just because she's a woman- he'd have to do the same thing with any male advisor too if they challenged him in front of everyone.
He's been king for like 1 day, and he can't start off by flip flopping his decision in front of a crowd.
If she approached in private he'd be more flexible. He'd probably even welcome other views.

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[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

Exactly. Sansa doesn't know when to speak and when to keep her mouth shut. That's something she'll have to learn if she and Jon are to work as a team. This way, she only alienated him for no good reason.

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[–] brux (14736) 7 years ago

Good points, but after saving hundreds of their lives and NOT being asked again ... what else can she do. John Snow knows nothing - chance and his bastard father propelled him into leadership faster than he was ready.

Is it more important to be the leader, or to do the right thing? Then on John's side, Sansa does not really have the chops or public support to be queen.

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[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

Jon's bastard father?

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[–] brux (14736) 7 years ago

Thanks, I mean his bastard connection to this father.

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[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

But that's why the Starks have been in power and respected far longer than any other family in Westeros. Because they are noble and just, sure if backfires on them sometimes but most of the time it has served them well. Don't forget, what happened to Ned and Robb weren't the first time the House of Stark was jeopardized. Just before the rebellion, both Ned's father and Brandon were killed too and the House of Stark fell on the hands of the unassuming and underestimated shy and quiet Ned. I for one wouldn't want the Starks to turn into Lannisters but they could use good advice from Sansa or Tyrion.

As for good and bad points, both Jon and Sansa made good points actually. Sansa's wasn't the better one to Jon's just because it's more cruel or harsher - something Cersei/Tywin/Dany might do. Giving both the Umbers and the Karstarks another chance may make them more loyal than the other Houses even. Jon and Sansa just need to listen to each other. And Sansa should follow her mother's example in not undermining Jon in front of his men. Sansa also need to learn from her past experiences not just in becoming more like Cersei instead of the naive but noble Stark, but also to put her family first and above others. She betrayed her family once with dire consequences, she should be smart not to repeat it.

You guys are all underestimating the Starks based on the few years of trouble. Remember what the Maester said, all of this has happened and will happen, the Starks have had a long history of troubles and upheavals. And they are still here. Even when everyone else thought they were done for after the Red Wedding, I knew it was a misdirection until they came back up again avenging the past and becoming even more powerful as a House. Why? Because it has happened before and they survived.

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[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

It's okay to be noble and forgiving when you can afford it. Right now Jon needs to surround himself with people he can trust. Can he trust those who hold the grudge against Starks because heads of their families were killed by Starks and their allies?

Yes, Jon refused to punish the children of Umbers and Kastarks for their fathers' treason, but on the other hand Arya killed the whole Frey family for the sin that a couple of Frey's sons committed. She didn't care who's guilty and who had nothing to do with it. Were we wrong to cheer her for what she did? I don't want to sound too Stalinist, but "no man, no problem" seems to be the common rule in Westeros for a good reason.

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[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

Did Jon really forgive those who betrayed him? Both Umber and Karstark involved in the betrayal were killed. Should he have slaughtered their children too and the entire family? Like what happened to the Targaryan children? That sure backfired on Dany didn't it? How exactly would it serve the Starks to drive the remaining Umbers and Karstarks and all their family, friends, sympathisers, and relations into the hands of their enemies, the Lannisters? Keeping them close will afford him to watch over them more closely, give them a chance to prove their loyalty more so than the other Houses, and allow greater numbers against a relentless enemy - the WW. Westeros needs to come together and forget their past squabbles at least temporarily. Even if you raze (sp?) and kill every House in Westeros and prove to be the only one left, that's a poor victory when you will end up dying against the WW. Think of the Native Americans that had a more difficult time against the onslaught of Europeans because of various factors, and not being united against a powerful enemy is one more factor. So make no mistake, unlike everyone else in GOT, Jon sees the bigger picture, more so than Cersei and more than Dany. Besides Cersei or her family has made everyone their enemy - the Starks and all of the North (including the Umbers and Karstarks are now back with the Starks), the Tyrells, the Tullys, Dany and her hoard, and the Martells (which is why I hated the wanton killing of Doran bec I believe he had plans against the Lannisters). I don't think her actions are wise and should be emulated. Jon may be naively noble, but he is smarter than Cersei.

Arya is too blood thirsty and is an assassin, certainly not the makings of a queen/leader like Jon. Second, all the men she killed took part in the killing of her family which is why she spared the wife who was innocent.

No man no problem is a rule of other Houses like the Lannisters and the Freys, but certainly not the Starks.

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[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

In Westeros, when you keep your enemy close, you end up dead. That already happened to Jon once. What did he learn from it? Nothing. Btw, you're thinking too much in today's terms, I doubt that people of Westeros are so complicated. I doubt that Umbers and Kastarks will think "oh, he's given us a second chance, let's prove to him how loyal we can be".

They will just think of revenge. Revenge seems to be one of the main motivators in Westeros.

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[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

What lesson should he have learned? He was betrayed by a bunch of short sighted peasants who had no history with his family. The Karstarks and Umbers were one of the most loyal Houses and bannermen of the Starks for thousands of years. And both betrayed the Starks through certain circumstances the NW conspirators didn't have. The Karstarks in fact is just another branch of House Stark, hence Karstarks. And Jon even with the NW conspirators killed only those who took part in it and not the entire NW or the conspirator's families. There is more of a likelihood for 2 ancient loyal families to be grateful and even more loyal than revenge for what exactly? The Umbers were supposedly tricked into the betrayal in the book but not covered in the show and the Karstarks head was killed by Robb. Robb is dead, Jon isn't Robb, and the 2 Umber children aren't their father's either. Besides, I doubt they will have much time for betrayal once they see the WW.

Again, following Lannister examples is not characteristic of the Starks, even Tyrion who is cunning and intelligent has a noble streak and would be far more like Jon than Cersei or Tywin. I don't see how making everyone your enemy and leaving yourself vulnerable and free to fight the WW alone when war has depleted your resources, men, will, etc is prudent tbh.

I am not thinking of today's terms, I'm not a Westerner, so my mindset and culture is very different from your's. I might even have a better mindset for the past and tradition in fact. Look at the board, or when IMDB was around, most prefer the villains and the shady characters over the naive Starks, that seems more of a modern mindset actually.

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[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

What lesson should he have learned?

Everything that happened with Alliser Thorne should've been a good lesson, but Jon obviously doesn't learn from his own mistakes.

Alliser hated Jon from the start, and it went so far that Jeor Mormont tried to keep them apart as much as possible. Then, when Stannis visited Castle Black, he gave Jon an advice to send Alliser away to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, but Jon replied "I heard it was best to keep your enemies close". That didn't end well, did it?

In the same conversation Stannis told Jon: "You're as honorable as your father". Jon thanked him, but Stannis replied: "I didn't mean it as praise. Honor got your father killed". Now, whatever Jon decides to do, he can't say he hasn't been warned. Several times, by several people, now including Sansa.

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[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

That's your mistake though, assuming everyone is like Allister Thorne. Both the Umbers and Karstarks never had that intense hatred for the Starks or Jon from the thousand/s of years relationship.

And the Umbers were deceived into the treachery by the Boltons and the Karstarks were not in a better position either. Not the same at all.

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[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

Umbers handed Rickon over to Boltons. Jon's forgiveness must seem to them like they hit a jackpot, so they may be quiet for a while. (even if Jon forgave them, I have a feeling that Sansa won't and might have some plans of her own. We'll see what happens when Arya joins them and finds out about Rickon)

But Karstarks are a different mater cause Robb beheaded Rickard Karstark. I'm sure that at least one person in Karstark family is making a list similar to Arya's, with Stark name on it. People in Westeros will hold a grudge and kill someone for far less, as we've seen from the Red Wedding example.

I understand that it would be best for everyone in the North if they all just forgive and forget the whole thing, but that kind of thing rarely happens in Westeros, at least from what we've seen so far.

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[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

In the show, not necessarily the book.

And if you think killing the Umber conspirators is a jackpot, then lol, ok.

If Sansa betrays her family the second time, then I am through with her and will have no sympathy left for her whatsoever.

What list would the Karstarks be making when Robb is dead? Again your mistake is in thinking every person in Westeros is the embodiment of one person. You keep going on and on about revenge but that's not really what you're talking about because every conspirator to be revenged upon by the Umbers and Karstarks has been killed/is dead, yet you want them to act like Ramsey or like Geoffrey. Killing the entire family, children, infants, household, friends, servants, etc because the heads of the family were traitors. And that's your mistake thinking the remaining family is just exactly like Ramsey or like Geoffrey.

I don't think they have time to think about made up new imaginary grudges when they have to deal with the WW, Winter has come. No one knows more what that means than a Northman.

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[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

And if you think killing the Umber conspirators is a jackpot, then lol, ok.

That's not what I wrote. I said that Umbers hit the jackpot when Jon forgave them.

I see that you're a book reader, I'm not. No wonder you see things differently than I do. I can make conclusions based only on what I see in the series.

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[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

The Umber conspirators are dead so how can they think it was a jackpot?

Maybe we should just agree to disagree?

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[–] winslow (1318) 7 years ago

and Ramsay had to skin at least 1 of the older Karstarks to get loyalty from that house, so not all of them were willing participants.

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[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

That's a good point Winslow.

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[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

I don't hate Sansa, but I certainly don't like her. She complains too much and thinks too highly about herself. And she conceals useful information. Put it this way: I wouldn't really mind if she was killed this season.

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[–] [email protected] (1358) 7 years ago

I dont hate her either,,,when she was Ramseys bride it was awful for her. She played that role well. And glad his dogs got him at the end.

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[–] brux (14736) 7 years ago

I was thinking for a while that under Sansa's all covering modest clothes that perhaps Ramsey left horrible scars and that they will debut at some point in the future. After all they kept saying he did horrible things to her, and horrible things for Ramsey (may his character burn in hell eternally) tend to mean one thing.

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[–] [email protected] (1358) 7 years ago

Yes you may be right. He was so cruel I am sure there are major scars.. physically as well as emotionally.

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[–] brux (14736) 7 years ago

I think more physical than emotional ... from earliest time of girlhood Sansa seems to have had the strength to wall off her emotions and firewall her inner individual from the horrors she has had to face. The physical scars seem to ... SEEM TO ... make her stronger, not break her.

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[–] Drmccormack (743) 7 years ago

I was wondering, is it possible that Sansa might be pregnant with Ramsey's baby?

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[–] lasteven (309) 7 years ago

Oh good Lord, what a horrid thought.

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[–] Drmccormack (743) 7 years ago

I know, it's unthinkable, but it would be a good plot turn. It would definitely throw a monkey wrench into Sansa's plans.

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[–] lasteven (309) 7 years ago

It definitely would be possible consider how much, um, activity was going on there. I would imagine they might have some herbalist ways of dealing with it, but just the idea is...wow!

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[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

Even worse would be if she dies in childbirth, giving birth to bastard's rape child.

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[–] Drmccormack (743) 7 years ago

Yes!

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[–] Drmccormack (743) 7 years ago

I like the, "Oh good Lord!" part of your response.

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[–] lasteven (309) 7 years ago

It came from the heart! Lol

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[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

I was wondering that as well, especially when Ramsay said, "I'm part of you now." (Or something along those lines).

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[–] Drmccormack (743) 7 years ago

Yes! I remember that! He was awful.

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[–] brux (14736) 7 years ago

>> LOL, I don't hate her, I just think she should be killed.

What makes you say she thinks too highly of herself?

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[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

Just the way she acts, and she keeps saying how if Jon listened to her everything would be perfect, but half the time she doesn't even have anything useful to say.

You twist my words; I meant that I wouldn't be heartbroken if she died this season, but I'm not saying "kill the b**** now!"

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[–] brux (14736) 7 years ago

Just kidding for goodness sake.

I just see her mannerisms as being stiff and lonely and unable and unwilling to trust anyone because of her history. You're entitled to your opinions, but her saving of the whole thing last season by herself - she did not get any credit for and most do not even know or recognize. She's got a right to be a little bitchy. Plus, I'm thinking we are going to find out at some point that Ramsey did a lot to her that is hidden under her robes and clothes, so she is not inclined to suffer fools, and John Snow was a f-ing fool in that big battle last season. He is alive because of her.

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[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

Apologies, I didn't mean to come across as rude either.

Anyway, I do agree with some of what you say. I can see her being "stiff and lonely and unable and unwilling to trust anyone". Ramsay probably did hurt her in multiple horrible ways. Jon was a fool in the battle.

However, it was Littlefinger who saved the day, not Sansa. Granted, Littlefinger came because of Sansa, but he could easily have chosen not to. So she can't really claim the victory.

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[–] R_Kane (15828) 7 years ago

Show of hands: Who here would be upset if Sansa were to die?

👎

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[–] brux (14736) 7 years ago

Upset .... I think you are off the wall.
The series/book is what it is ... who has time to waste getting upset.
Killing off the Sansa character just limits the possibilities of the plot, and for the sole reason of making you happy? Bad tradeoff IMHO.

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[–] Cookie.L.A. (2117) 7 years ago

<< I don't hate Sansa, but I certainly don't like her. >>

I've always seen Sanka (as I call her) as sort of the Everyman of the show. She's not exceptional; she's learning as she goes along. We all love to think we could be dropped into a tense, disastrous situation and wow the world with our brave, brilliant solutions...but so very few people are actually capable of that.

I think the fact that she's somewhat ordinary and doing the best she can (when she even applies herself) is her charm.
.

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[–] TexasJack (12516) 7 years ago

test

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[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

I like this new Sansa more than I liked the old Sansa, that's for sure (I'm still not too fond of her, mind).

She's done with being the subservient little girl, always a pawn in someone else's plan.

She wants power and control. From my point of view, she's had two huge female influences, who've had some power in this society, her mother and Cersei. She made it clear that she's taking notes from history, regarding strategy and what-not. So, she's not going to go the route of Catelyn, being the counselor in shadow to Jon, since that wasn't that successful with Robb and Cat. Also, there's nothing stopping Jon from doing whatever he wants, regardless of discussions in private in this scenario.

The bigger influence in her most formative years was Cersei, and we all know how she does things, though Sansa is less murdery at this stage. Couple that with the fact that all the strategists she's observed have been on the cunning, power hungry, shady side, and you can see where some of her behaviour comes from.

But a point needs to be made that neither her, nor Jon really know what they're doing. Why should Jon's word outweigh her's? They're both Starks, he because King partly due to being a male heir (I said partly, don't jump on me for this one). Jon is somewhat naive, he needs someone to put him in check sometimes. And if these strategies are discussed in an open forum, why should Sansa stay quiet? Those two should work as a team, each one with different streights, IMO.

(Sorry if I'm repeating some points, I didn't read through the whole thread)

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[–] TexasJack (12516) 7 years ago

More of the same this week and I think Jon just made a huge mistake leaving her in charge. (And of course even that didn't seem to make her happy.)

He should have sent her to the Wall.

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[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

I expected her to at least be somewhat happy to be left in charge. Maybe her concern about Jon's safety outweighed her joy?

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[–] TexasJack (12516) 7 years ago

I hope so. She may annoy me but I don't want her to turn bad. I also noticed that she has looked at Littlefinger right after Jon said she would be in charge during his absence. She seems to be by turns angry with and intrigued by LF. The latter case concerns me.

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[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

Same. Her relationship with Littlefinger worries me very much. I don't want her to turn dark and evil, but she is already rather cold.

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