The whole 'Blackface-dilemma'. - Tropic Thunder (2008) Discussion

[–] JackSparrow92 11 years ago

I'm consistently baffled by the number of people who cry "racism" over Tropic Thunder. Even people who are otherwise intelligent and thoughtful. (I'll also mention that I'm a liberal, and some of us tend to cry "racism" a bit too easily, but anyway...)

You're right -- if you call TT racist, you simply don't "get it". Downey was playing a white guy PLAYING A BLACK GUY. The Kirk Lazarus character donned the makeup as a riff on the lengths method actors will go to for their roles. In this case Lazarus went to far, but it was LAZARUS doing that -- not Downey.

Plus, the movie comments on this. Example:

Kirk Lazarus: [to Tugg Speedman] What do you mean, "you people?"
Alpa Chino: [stares at Lazarus, and then gets angry] What do YOU mean, "you people?"

I've talked myself blue trying to explain this before, often to no avail. (sigh)

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[–] king_of_bob 10 years ago

Kirk Lazarus: [to Tugg Speedman] What do you mean, "you people?"
Alpa Chino: [stares at Lazarus, and then gets angry] What do YOU mean, "you people?"

I have to say that I love Kirk's follow up "Huh?!" to Alpa's line. Like he thinks Alpa is mirroring his comment toward Tugg, reenforcing his point. RDJ kills it in this movie. He's always acting and everything he does is brilliant.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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[–] pgFiSheYe 8 years ago

Kirk Lazarus: [to Tugg Speedman] What do you mean, "you people?"
Alpa Chino: [stares at Lazarus, and then gets angry] What do YOU mean, "you people?"

I have to say that I love Kirk's follow up "Huh?!" to Alpa's line. Like he thinks Alpa is mirroring his comment toward Tugg, reenforcing his point. RDJ kills it in this movie. He's always acting and everything he does is brilliant.

I totally agree. Especially because he's not facing Alpa, so he actually thinks Alpa's line is directed to Tugg, not realizing it's intended for him instead !!

Algo Jay Baruchel's (Kevin) acting is superb too nodding with his head while he's in the background.

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[–] coffeepartynation 11 years ago

Did anyone cry racism any time Eddie Murphy played a white person? In Coming to America, he played an elderly white man.

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[–] king_of_bob 10 years ago

Black actors donning "whiteface" doesn't carry the same taboo, for good reason. Check the history of blackface.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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[–] Gambit771 9 years ago

I have and blackface doesn't have to mean racist but it all gets lumped together regardless of context and history as bad which makes the people condemning it out of the hat as racist.

Coal workers playing sport to avoid being fired or being in traditional dancing groups spring to mind

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[–] Stratego (30822) 5 years ago

The history of blackface doesn't matter. If either blackface or whiteface is done to mock a race instead of just portraying a character who happens to be of that race, it's inappropriate.

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[–] jmrex 9 years ago

Let's not forget that epic SNL bit where Murphy hit the streets as a white guy. Google it if you ain't seen it.

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[–] LemonTastic 11 years ago

People bring race into things too often.
He was an actor, acting like a black man, that's what actors do. It wasn't meant to be offensive.
For all we know it could be a dig at some one the actors that do things like that, like Christian Bale and Tom Hanks who lose weight just for a film

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[–] !!!deleted!!! (14789810) 11 years ago

If Robert Downey Jr indeed did play a black man, that would have been incredibly racist

Why? simply because it wouldn't give a black person a job?

This is what actors do.
Zoe Saldana is a blue person in avatar. Darth Vader is voiced by a black person. And Hollywood inserts minorities into roles all the time for more box office.
Johnny Depp playing Tonto, why not? It's a fictional character to begin with. He's a more bankable star, a good actor, and he is part native american in some distant relation.
Make up is part of hollywood, and actors play figures of different nationalities all the time.

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[–] king_of_bob 10 years ago

Johnny Depp playing Tonto, why not? It's a fictional character to begin with. He's a more bankable star, a good actor, and he is part native american in some distant relation.

You are aware that a great many people had a problem with that casting choice, right?

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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[–] liscarkat (19031) 6 years ago

"You are aware that a great many people had a problem with that casting choice, right?"

So what? Does that give "having a problem with it" some sort of automatic, definitive credibility? "A great many people" are irrational and foolish.

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[–] gordaton 9 years ago

Clearly didn't help, The Lone Ranger was one of the biggest flops of all time.

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[–] timerty4 11 years ago

"But if we take The Lone Ranger as an example, that was Johnny Depp playing an actual native american, that's highly offensive."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
"Racism consists of both prejudice and discrimination based in social perceptions of biological differences between peoples."

Why are you offended with Johnny Depp playing a native American based on his biology/race?

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[–] motopsychic 10 years ago

"I guess I have some Native American [in me] somewhere down the line. My great-grandmother was quite a bit of Native American, she grew up Cherokee or maybe Creek Indian. Makes sense in terms of coming from Kentucky, which is rife with Cherokee and Creek" (Johnny Depp).

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[–] castus-1 10 years ago

I really don't understand the typical racism comments by everyone (and in particular Americans for the smallest things).

Maybe we should just not focus on it all the time as everybody is missing the point.

Racism has nothing to do with calling a black guy 'black' or painting a guys face black. Racism is putting some sort of value on top of it.

"I hate white people" would be racist as you're putting a judgment on being a certain color.

if a black guy paints his face white, what does it matter? you're not saying that being white is either good or bad, there is no judgment there, so no racism. Let's stop making these stupid problems ourselves.

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] shb-31908 9 years ago

Excellent point. I wish most people could understand this.

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[–] delandmat 9 years ago

I agree!

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[–] king_of_bob 10 years ago

If Robert Downey Jr indeed did play a black man, that would have been incredibly racist, but he played a white guy playing a black guy. It made fun of racial casting and hollywood.

But if we take The Lone Ranger as an example, that was Johnny Depp playing an actual native american, that's highly offensive.

Very similar to what I said in another thread a minute ago. RDJ isn't in blackface in this movie. The character he's playing is. While Johnny Depp was himself playing a Native American. It's a not so subtle, but still very important distinction.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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[–] Hemorrhage911 9 years ago

Neither should a big deal.

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[–] king_of_bob 9 years ago

Wrong. There are plenty of native actors who could have played Depps role. But they needed a white man for the role of Kirk Lazarus, because the character is in blackface. It doesn't make sense to actually hire a black person to play a white guy who is supposed to be in blackface.

There was no valid reason to hire Depp over an actual native actor.

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[–] Hemorrhage911 9 years ago

There are plenty of native actors who could have played Depps role.

WHO? Haha, please go ahead and name that long list of Native actors that could have starred in The Lone Ranger? Name me one Native actor that has name appeal to the masses. Please, I will wait. I love when faux-outraged fans discuss the business side of Hollywood without knowing a damn thing.

There was no valid reason to hire Depp over an actual native actor.

2% of the population is Native American. You said there are "plenty of native actors" - no, there is not. Even if there was, there's not as many with name recognition like Depp, and a history of success with the director.

You can easily point to it being a "flop", but it could have been even worse without Depp.

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[–] king_of_bob 9 years ago

WHO? Haha, please go ahead and name that long list of Native actors that could have starred in The Lone Ranger? Name me one Native actor that has name appeal to the masses. Please, I will wait. I love when faux-outraged fans discuss the business side of Hollywood without knowing a damn thing.

Your ignorance notwithstanding.

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls005301786/

Hell, Lou Diamond Philips would have been a better choice than Johnny Depp. And if name appeal is what they were going for, why did they hire Armie Hammer as the lead of the film? Your argument is *beep* and you know it.

I'm not outraged either. I'm pointing out the difference between what RDJ was doing in this movie v the Lone Ranger. You're turning this into a whole other discussion.

2% of the population is Native American. You said there are "plenty of native actors" - no, there is not. Even if there was, there's not as many with name recognition like Depp, and a history of success with the director.

Yes, there are. The fact that you don't know them doesn't change the fact that there are MANY native actors.

And again, your argument is completely idiotic. Why cast Depp as the Native character rather than the Lone Ranger himself? Nothing you're saying is a valid argument FOR Depp to be the native character.

The new home of Welcome to Planet Bob: http://kingofbob.blogspot.ca/

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[–] Hemorrhage911 9 years ago

Your ignorance notwithstanding.

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls005301786/

Hell, Lou Diamond Philips would have been a better choice than Johnny Depp. And if name appeal is what they were going for, why did they hire Armie Hammer as the lead of the film? Your argument is *beep* and you know it.

I'm not outraged either. I'm pointing out the difference between what RDJ was doing in this movie v the Lone Ranger. You're turning this into a whole other discussion.

That's your list? That's your damn list? OMG, haha. A good portion of those were supporters in a terrible franchise (Twilight), the rest are B-Listers. I never said there was NO Native American actors. Your list, in terms of Hollywood actors/actresses, is incredibly small. There being quality actors/actresses in that list is even smaller.

Lou Diamond Phillips? What? He is in B-movies now, he has no name recognition.

Yes, there are. The fact that you don't know them doesn't change the fact that there are MANY native actors.

And again, your argument is completely idiotic. Why cast Depp as the Native character rather than the Lone Ranger himself? Nothing you're saying is a valid argument FOR Depp to be the native character.

WHICH ONE OF THEM HAS NAME RECOGNITION? Which one of them has box office draw? GIVE ME A LIST! Show me ONE of those actors that the majority will know.

Stop with the stupidity.

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[–] Katachthonios 9 years ago

You're digging yourself into a hole.

The reason there are no A-list Native actors is because of redface BS like casting Johnny Depp as Tonto.

If Lone Ranger had its druthers, it would have cast an A-list white guy to play the lead and a talented Native to play Tonto.

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[–] lemner (231) 8 years ago

There are Native American actors who could have had the role, Adam Beach being one, for instance. However, the whole movie made a total hot mess of the entire Lone Ranger mythos, with Johnny Depp doing a version of crazy Captain Jack that no self-respecting Native American would have gone along with unless they really, really needed a paycheck. They even played the Lone Ranger as a dumb-ass, when they could have had a great straight role done similar to the one by the guy playing his brother. They ruined the whole legend, and it will probably be 20 years or more until we get a decent version. They must have thought if they could just get Johnny Depp in their movie, they had it made, because he leads the block-buster Pirates of the Caribbean franchise.

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[–] SGJan81 9 years ago

Did anyone have a problem with Benicio del Toro playing a Native American in Jimmy P. ? Or maybe nobody saw Jimmy P.

Yodi

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[–] bigtab5 10 years ago

I'm black, and RDJ did a great job! He's black, in the movie! LOL

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[–] lemner (231) 8 years ago

I liked the extra layer of irony in having RDJ play a blue-eyed, blond
Aussie, when he's a brown-eyed brunette American.

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