MovieChat Forums > Doubt (2008) Discussion > Do you think he was guilt or not?

Do you think he was guilt or not?


I went back and forth honestly it was like one moment I thought he's guilt the next innocent so it's difficult

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So you had doubt. That's what the movie does. I thought he wasn't a good man. I wouldn't want him around me or my family.

meg.

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[deleted]

When I watched Doubt the first time, I thought it was unclear. I re-watched it recently and came to MY conclusion that Flynn was guilty.

Several reasons, starting with his behavior -
Flynn flying into a rage when he wasn't directly accused of anything, his haughtiness and preaching style, his superiority complex and sense of entitlement. Depicting himself as a victim when it suits him and a saviour in other instances. Flynn trying hard to be seen as a 'good guy' and popular among students and parishioners, so no one would believe gossip about him. His use of charm to win over the vulnerable or naive, like Donald and Sister James.

William London's reaction to Flynn whenever in his presence.
Flynn putting Donald's undershirt into Donald's locker which means Donald was undressed while with Flynn.
Flynn seducing Donald with gifts and attention.
Donald's demeanor after seeing Flynn and the alcohol incident.
Flynn being at his 3rd school in 5 yrs and now because of Sister Aloysius accusations, his 4th.
After Sister Aloysius bluffed Flynn that she spoke with a nun at his last school, he hastily leaves which points to guilt, imo. In 1960's, when he was protected by the clergy, he had nothing to fear, so I believe the past accounts were very credible and easy to prove, thus to dangerous for him to remain.

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Great analysis. I agree. It was interesting you mentioned williams reaction to flynn when flynn announced his resignation will smirked it was like two seconds but he smirked when flynn said he was leaving.

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William London's reaction to Flynn whenever in his presence.


London was also the one who bullied Donald in the hall. He pulls away from from Flynn in the courtyard and from his hands in the gym. Why does he do these things? Because he hates gays and knows or suspects that both Donald and Flynn are gay.

Flynn flying into a rage when he wasn't directly accused of anything,


She said basically, 'I won't stop until you confess'

At that point his options were to:
-confess to being gay to her, and probably lose his ordination
-fight the accusation, and have the entire congregation turn on him
-leave the church

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We're all guessing here but I have a strong aversion to the idea that Flynn is gay. Imo, he is NOT gay. His fear is of being exposed as a lover of pre-teen boys (children), not of men.
The clergy are aware of his perversion and that's why he is moved on. If he had relationships with other men, he could go on for years without fear of exposure. It was actually common and condoned if kept quiet. It is hard to imagine that Flynn on 3 occasions in 5 years, being found out for indulging in sex with another man. That I don't believe for a second.

London bullying Donald could be his reaction to Donald accepting willingly in his eyes, attention from Flynn. Of course, it's still bullying but London imo, wants to isolate Flynn, that he will never be one of the guys, that's why he was happy about Flynn leaving. London is sickened by Flynn and Donald's relationship.

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If he had relationships with other men, he could go on for years without fear of exposure. It was actually common and condoned if kept quiet.

If kept quiet, yes. But the only way he could explain himself at the end would be to confess to being gay. And Sister A would not have kept quiet about that.

Reasons why I think Flynn is gay:
-long (feminine) nails

-wants a secular/progressive church, says "the church needs to change"
which I believe is the reason for 3 churches in 5 years. They didn't share his vision, he moved on. Or a nun could have suspected he was gay and was confronted. There are different possibilities (Again him leaving at the end doesn't mean guilt as it was pragmatically his only option.)

-he writes down his sermon idea before being accused about intolerance
(could be racial or related to homosexuality)
after being accused, he instead gives the sermon about gossip

-"if none of the girls want to dance with you, you become a priest"
(only after this remark does London again look disgusted)

-him talking about how Donald needs help (because he probably went through the same thing)


Scenes with London:
In the beginning in church gets smacked for talking to girls by the Sister A
In the courtyard, puts his hand on the Sister J
Around the table with the boys talking about girls
In class he sneaks over to talk with the girl
At the gym about the nails
In the hall bullying Donald
At the end with the smirk

In every one of these scenes London either comes across as arrogant, cocky, or mean. And the way the sisters treat him, it doesn't seem like this is new and he's really a good kid. Never scared. Disgust, but more in a "you're a fa**ot" kind of disgust.

I can see maybe arguing that he abused Donald, but I just can't see it also being London.

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But do you think flynn was abusing william london because of the way he acted.

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Not guilty.

'Ne cherchez plus mon coeur, les bĂȘtes l'ont mangĂ©.' Baudelaire

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Definitely guilty of pederasty and taking advantage of his power and position. He cares for his congregation and believes his sins are forgivable and should be overlooked because of his deep compassion and the good he thinks he can do. Sister Aloysius is too street smart for his sort of new age baloney and she wants him removed - because he's not good for pubescent boys and she is quite certain about it. (She's a hero in that sense). Her doubt was not about Fr. Flynn taking improper liberties with boys, for she established that certainty in her mind, it's doubt about the way she went about doing things. She has doubts about how far she took things. Her final admission of doubt surprised me.

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