At what point did you lose interest in Hank's antics? - Californication (2007) Discussion

[–] drbywho 9 years ago

I think the problem with the show from the start was the writers didn't think Hank would be interesting enough if he weren't constantly sleeping with new women.

First episode of season 2, Hank accidentally goes down on a girl in the dark. But he and Karen are supposed to be together! Oh no!

Hank sleeps with the dean's wife while he's in the process of trying to make things right with Karen.

And about that, when Karen went to NY and Hank stayed in LA, she was waiting for him. That's what he always wanted, but he still kept getting himself into those wacky hijinks.

It was an awful mess, everything after season one. If you stop right after Karen jumps into the car and the family is back together, it really would have been a perfect show. Just try to ignore the rest.

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[–] jljaxs 8 years ago

That's how I ended up feeling. We tried to watch the second season, and just could not see the point of Hank being back with Karen, and what might happen from then on. Is getting a guy turned on the day of his vasectomy a thing?? It is if you're Karen and self centered.

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[–] Pippy-4 9 years ago

If Karen would have committed to him he never would have cheated on her. She was the cheater not him

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[–] Nikon11 9 years ago

I don't believe that one bit. Hank is self-destructive, and always found a way to kill his chances with Karen.

He also likes sleeping with different women, and that's part of it too.

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[–] Pippy-4 9 years ago

You're wrong. Its Karen that is the self destructive person. She cheated first. Hank would have never cheated on her if she would have stayed. The only woman he ever enjoyed having sex with was Karen. The rest were just a fill in" because he was lonely.

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[–] Nikon11 9 years ago

Eh, who knows, really.

As said, I don't believe that, but that's just my opinion, based on my experiences, my life, what I've seen and heard.

She cheated first. Hank would have never cheated on her if she would have stayed..

Not sure what that actually means, really. Hank cheated out of vindictiveness?

Hank can't commit, yet always wants what he can't have. Karen is drawn to him, but knows what Hank is. It's both. Maybe it's love - who's to say. But it's dysfunctional nevertheless, and is ultimately doomed.

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[–] Pippy-4 9 years ago

No, Hank didn't cheat out of vindictiveness. In MHO he went to other women out of loneliness. Karen was his love and if she would have stayed with him he didn't need those other women. Of course that would have made the show boring so they had to have Hank doing his thing.

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[–] Nikon11 9 years ago

We disagree, obviously.

Hank's a dog, who wants/needs other women. He plays it like he wants to be with just Karen, but it always ends. You can say that it's because of something she did, or loads of other external reasons, but he's a key player in his own destiny, not just some impotent pawn. You make your own bed in life - and Hank's made his.

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[–] ThreeZs 9 years ago

Hank's not a dog (what you're implying is not fair to dogs, btw). He never ever cheated on Karen. Your whole premise rests on the assumption that he cheated, but he didn't.
There are plenty of men who are creeps who want or need other women than who they're with, but Hank isn't one of them. Hank is like a Rorschach test for what the viewer thinks already. If you want to see Hank as this creep, you will.
Hank wants Karen. He can't have her. Sometimes we can't have what we want, and that's part of what the show is about.
What if there's no such thing as destiny?
Dearly Beloved, We are gathered here today to get through this thing called life. Prince RIP

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[–] writetopcat 9 years ago

The writers made the decisions. They apparently felt they had to have this cycle of Karen shooting Hank down, and Hank boinking all these women continue for the show to get another season.
I really think they felt like: "hey this formula is successful so why change it now? People seem to like it. Let's keep having Hank be basically a good guy but make some bad decisions and Karen and Becca blame him for everything, etc."

Edit: I look at this show differently than the dramas I have been watching recently. I think it is a big mistake, which I started to make since I was coming off of all those dramas, of taking this thing too seriously. Everyone in this show is a caricature, their problems, foibles, etc. are exaggerated to the point of being almost absurd, in a comic way.

Is Hank a dog? Oh hell yeah. He is an over the top dog. He gets laid almost as often as some hookers. Usually only when he and Karen are taking a break I think, but he is a big time dog.
His problems and misunderstandings with Karen and Becca are exaggerated as well. Whoops, went down on another lady by accident! Sorry about that. It was dark, it's a big house, er... oops.

Becca is a caricature of a sullen daughter, her blow ups with her parents are exaggerated a bit too.

Charlie's work problems, getting filmed jerking off all those times, his relationship with his freaky druggie wife, their ups and downs, are all a bit over the top.

Is Mia a she-devil sociopath? Oh hell yeah. She tricked Hank into boinking her without telling him she was only 16, became cra cra resentful that he would not keep doing her after he learned she was underage, and stole the best thing he had written in 7 years.

The writers exaggerate all this stuff right up to the point of absurdity almost because they don't want us to take it all seriously as in a real drama. We are meant to laugh about it all. Somehow people get through all these over the top problems and incidents without them ruining their lives.

I think this show is therapeutic in some ways. "If these couples can go through all that stuff and get past it, maybe the problems my girlfriend and I go through are small potatoes and easy to get past."

But as for the question, I am only in season 3 right now. I am still entertained. I may edit this post again after I finish the series.

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[–] ThreeZs 9 years ago

When did Hank cheat? Did he ever cheat? That's the contention of the other poster--that he cheated--but when did he cheat?

Dearly Beloved, We are gathered here today to get through this thing called life. Prince RIP

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[–] Pippy-4 9 years ago

He didn't cheat. The only time he was with other women was when Karen wasn't with him which was most of the series. She was the one that couldn't commit. Geez cheated on Bill with Hank right after she married him.

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[–] ThreeZs 9 years ago

So Nikon doesn't have a leg to stand on!

Dearly Beloved, We are gathered here today to get through this thing called life. Prince RIP

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[–] Pippy-4 9 years ago

I don't think they do. Hank NEVER cheated on Karen.

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[–] Nikon11 9 years ago

I didn't bring up cheating - did I?

I just said, (my opinion), that Hank is self-destructive, doesn't really know what he wants, and sabotages his relationship with Karen with his behaviour - and also uses that as an excuse to not foster a relationship with another woman.

By the way, cheating isn't the cause of relationship strife, it's a result.

Regardless, if Hank really wanted to be with Karen, he'd have grown up and made it happen. And I'm not judging or belittling him here. He didn't want to grow up, but she did.

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[–] ThreeZs 9 years ago

You called Hank a dog, which implies cheating.

By the way, cheating isn't the cause of relationship strife, it's a result.

Really? Some people are compulsive, repeat cheaters. I think your assumption would be news to those partners of compulsive cheaters.

If Karen wanted to grow up, why did she cheat?

sabotages his relationship with Karen with his behaviour

What he does when they don't have a relationship is his business.

Dearly Beloved, We are gathered here today to get through this thing called life. Prince RIP

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[–] Nikon11 9 years ago

No, by calling him a dog I meant that he likes to bang a lot of women.

I agree that there're some people who'll cheat no matter what. But I also think that some people end up cheating due to their unhappy situations.

Those who compulsively cheat don't necessarily want their marriage to end, though. They're able to compartmentalise things, and are usually happy with their two separate lives.

As far as my comment about sabotaging his relationship with Karen, I'm not even talking about sex here. It's everything else, how he's immature and unreliable.

Whatever - we don't agree. Hank's a saint to you. Awesome.

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[–] ThreeZs 9 years ago

Hank isn't a saint, and now that you've gone into it, I actually agree with you.

Dearly Beloved, We are gathered here today to get through this thing called life. Prince RIP

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[–] cmun 8 years ago

I agree with Pippy-4 (And really....what about Karen and Becca's antics????) In season one, right after Hank's father comes to visit him on the set (where he's working long hours), his father says something about a beautiful woman hugging him in front of Karen.....he wasn't cheating, we all saw at that point in the show he didn't go after these women. Shortly after that scene Karen, who seems to think he's cheating (or going to soon), tells him she did actually cheat....beat him to the punch in her mind. Up till then her main problem had been his long hours away from home. He was hurt. In that episode it's clear that she cheated FIRST....but I think that that episode gets lost in the overall show, in which he does sleep with numerous women, so I understand people forgetting it. I wish I could direct you to the exact episode....and if I find the time or desire to search them I'll edit my post with the exact episode.

After that point, I believe part of the reason he has sex with several different woman (vs. dating and sleeping with just one) is because they aren't Karen, and the encounters prove to him each time that it wouldn't work to seek a relationship with them ....he has sexual needs, like most of us, but can't get into a relationship with any of them because he is still in love with Karen....these sexual encounters leave him feeling more lonely, IMO, showing how much no other woman could fill the void Karen left. His encounters prove to him that they are not long-term material for him and only further his need for Karen.....the void id so painful, though, that he attempts to fill it in so many ways that are not healthy (I'm not just talking about the one night stands). He may not even be aware that he is searching for something that will never satisfy him.

He also tries to keep a relationship with his daughter going, pays her a lot of attention...something many men in these situation do not do....even to the point of giving up his dream of living in New York again AND doing so with Karen, just to keep his daughter happy (after making that extreme sacrifice for her, it is hard to watch how she begins to treat him).

Just a woman...sharing my views on Hank.

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[–] writetopcat 9 years ago

His character just kept limping along, making the same mistakes, and hurting the people he cares about.

I have noticed distinct patterns the writers use. The show is really very formulaic.

Hank and Karen go through their cycles of good times together, then some incident or other becomes the new tipping point for Karen and she tells Hank either " we are taking a break" or "this time we are really through" in a hurt, sad fashion.
Becca does her mopey, guilt dumping, whiney, "why couldn't you have been a different person dad?" "you ruined my life" thing. (Even when she starts to say something positive she always pivots into a dark ending "but then things changed. now I just wonder if you will be here when I wake up. waaah, waaah, mope mope). And Hank goes into a drinking, tailspin, getting laid right and left again.

Karen and Becca are really over the top in terms of unfairly accusing Hank of stuff. He is a hound dog by nature of course. But the show has him as a basically decent guy with acceptable foibles who winds up in trouble often while helping someone else out trouble, or trying to help someone somehow, though sometimes it is because he still has a juvenile personality. But the degree of shocked indignation and anger Karen displays is usually overdone; of course that is by design so we feel Hank got a raw deal.

The writers make sure Hank is seen as a sympathetic though mildly flawed character by:

1- showing him as a loving father who puts up with abuse from his whiny, annoying daughter and the woman who left him, and came back to him, time after time.

2- showing him as a good hearted person who is willing to help others, often to his own detriment.

3- showing him getting a bad, unfair rap time after time.

4- making him a funny and witty guy whom the ladies line up for.
Most guys know that in the situations Hank gets into with all those lovely, willing ladies they would make most of the same mistakes.

5- showing Hank repentant and critical of himself during introspective personal inventory periods.

These things are the constants in the show. They recycle them over and over. It is starkly apparent during the "tipping point" segments when the 2 loves of his life dump guilt on him and break up with him again. Those scenes are so predictable you almost know what Becca and Karen are going to say ahead of time.

And when things are that predictable viewers start to lose interest.

I am most of the way done with season 4 now, up to episode 12 where he just got his sentence. I am hooked now, I have invested this much time in the show and the story, so I will finish the series.
I do still enjoy many aspects of the show. But I think the writers either got really lazy, or else they were afraid to change what had been a successful formula up to that point. For whatever reason their writing became excessively formulaic and stale.

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[–] ChiStyleSports 8 years ago

Hank only wanted Karen. But, Karen was always with someone else. Is Hank just supposed to stay there? That's a little ridiculous to expect to stay celibate while the person you want isn't.

It is going to get wet in here tonight. Lace your boots up, kiddies.

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[–] Pippy-4 8 years ago

Hank only wanted Karen. But, Karen was always with someone else. Is Hank just supposed to stay there? That's a little ridiculous to expect to stay celibate while the person you want isn't.

EXACTLY!!!!!

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[–] writetopcat 8 years ago

Agreed.

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[–] questionyoureality 8 years ago

Lose interest? LOL!

Nobody lost interest in this show, feminism did what it always does to promising shows with while male protagonists or anti heroes: they cry, whine, moan, claim 'we are victims' because they don't enjoy the show / it doesn't pander to the female / feminist ego until it gets cancelled.

It's truly sad when we live in an era that there is only one 'correct' formula to hollywood entertainment, and it's the 'political' formula... the sad part is it's the exact same formula from the previous century which feminists attacked, merely reversing the roles men and women play in it. Speak out against exploitation from excess nudity, victimisation and gender based prejudices of character, exploitation of vulnerability in emotional situations, and outright gender prejudice with the 're-imagining' of entire casts as a single gender, but not when it's done to males on screen instead of females. Everything feminism stands against, it now promotes: because what was once justice is now petty vengeance and nothing more. The enlightened see the fading label of 'feminist' as something that will never again represent equality, which is the inevitable fate of any ideology given the test and corruption of time and human miscommunication. If you played 'telephone' as a child, you should understand by now and see it.

Hopefully with an independent thinking leader in America again we can stop pandering to the collective 1970 trapped idiocy / ideology that is feminism and advance society in a step away from extinction, unlike this ideology from the previous century which seeks to drive us towards it faster every day... because apparently it's easier to do that than actually work towards an equilibrium between the genders which might actually transcend this ideal of 'gender role' that has become so hopelessly confused thanks to the 20th century and the early 21st century's newfound 'fem-ego' which it confuses for respect, power and confidence.

RIP:
Californication
Breaking Bad
Limitless
House
Damien
Brotherhood
Sopranos

And countless other series as we see mainstream media prove just how #fakenews can be when sponsored by corporate greed.

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[–] therefdotcom 8 years ago

i can't pinpoint where exactly i had enough, but it must be around the 3rd or 4th season, where i started to wonder to myself why i was watching an utter doucherocket, surrounded by other fools. a bit like with entourage really.

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