I'm looking at it from her perspective, to compare what she is suggesting to what she knows Walt has done, and from that point of view, they are not so far apart. If fact, you could argue that her suggestion is worse than the killing of Gus, if she understands, as Walt has told her, how bad these people were, that there's no way of talking your way out of it with Gus, etc. Whereas Jessie, on the other hand, Walt felt he could once again gain his trust, if he could just explain to him why he needed to poison Brock. At least that was his plan. But Skyler would not want Walt to try talking..she went right to - he must be killed.
Skyler's suggestion is so striking because it's out of character, a radical departure from her consistent way of being, which was heavily influenced by conscience. Since so much was now lost - including a belief in her own humanity, for being "compromised too" as she put it - she took an unenthusiastic step into the darkness where Walt lived.
From this standpoint, wouldn't you also say Walt was similarly compromised after killing Crazy 8? Sure, what he did to get to that point could have been avoiding by not going the meth route versus G&E money, but once he got to this point, and felt there was no other way out, wouldn't he have been compromised enough to start his trip further towards Heisenberg? Perhaps he lost enough of his humanity, after this first killing, coupled with his cancer sentence, that he was now in the same place as Skyler, mentioned here.
She also did not appear to be drinking heavily...it appeared to be a pretty sober statement.
Don't believe Walt's OMG reaction was untrue either. Expect hearing this from Skyler was fairly shocking to him. He had just had a similar conversation with Saul (not as shocking), who suggested the same thing, and Walt consistently shot that one down too, telling him not to float that idea again. He finally did give in, but not until talking failed and Jesse gave him a direct threat on his family "where he really lives".
reply
share
Whatlarks
8 years ago
If we take her perspective, then it seems evident that she doesn't believe Walt can just talk to Jesse. She's convinced that talking won't work. We can discuss whether she's right or wrong, but it's moot since the active influence is what she actually believes.
Is she in this moment, as bad as Walt? I agree she's at the point Walt was at with Crazy 8. But not at the point he's reached by Rabid Dog. And I think that even if what she knows is limited to what you mentioned, it's enough. Even one murder is over the line. What is it Bond says about the relative ease of the second killing? "Yes, considerably." Not that she's murdered, or ordered a murder, but in this scene she reveals that she is convinced of her culpability, her loss of humanity, and that makes a huge difference. If she was "over it" like Walt, she wouldn't need to drink.
But I think what she "knows" extends beyond a couple of murders. I think she intuits that Walt has done more, is convinced of it. Known facts/numbers aside, I think Skyler feels that she is culpable for murder, that she has crossed the line, that she is an accessory. That she is just as depraved. That's why they had her say "we."
I knew this was going to happen.
I knew it. I told you that someday,
someone was going to come to
our door and try to hurt us. And
now here we are...
I mean, my God, where we are
now with Hank and Marie and
that awful tape we made. After
everything we've done, you can't
just talk to this person...
Regarding her drinking, "heavily" may be incorrect, but the amount isn't important, it's that she needs to drink, period, and no amount of it could relieve her.
I agree Walt was shocked, as he was shocked when Saul broached murdering Jesse. I'm putting this into the context of Walt previously being shocked - perhaps authentically - but nevertheless coming around to just what was proposed. It helps with the rationalization when others are voting for it. You don't feel so alone in your depravity.
"You must not judge what I know by what I find words for." - Marilynne Robinson
reply
share
swolbach
8 years ago
Just think it's a bit drastic to jump to having Jesse killed, based on what we know Skyler knows about Jesse. I mean, as far as she has last seen, he 's Walt's old student, young guy who just recently came over to dinner, complementing her on her shopping skills, got uncomfortable from their more serious conversation, etc.
From what she saw of Jesse, it's hard to think she really would need to jump right to having him killed. She never saw the Jesse that killed Gale, went after the dealers, or even the Jesse that did pour the gas in the house.
Granted, the thought of someone considering to burn your house down might be enough to put many over that line. But that was a pretty quick judgment, with no other considerations, as Walt was suggesting. Sort of a Heisenberg-esque decision...actually, that might not even be an accurate term, because there was very little scheming or calculating involved.
reply
share
Whatlarks
8 years ago
Drastic, yes, but wasn't it the case that the cumulative situation had reached a drastic level, and her state of mind reflected that painful awareness? The situation not just being Jesse, but all she knew she'd done and had become, all she knew and suspected Walt had done and become, them holed up in a motel room, almost everything of value but their kids' lives seemingly lost.
I think her drastic suggestion reflects a mind that, in surveying her world, was convinced that she was in a living hell with no way out but, perhaps, to play by hell's rules. Her line, "What's one more?" to me isn't just rhetorical; I think it reflects uncertainty about whether restraint matters anymore, whether conscience is still relevant, given how far they've gone, and how much has been ruined already. Why hold back now?
Given all that, and if she doesn't believe Walt, but believes Jesse does intend to murder her family, I think there are grounds for her to make such a drastic suggestion. I don't think it matters how much she knows of his doings with Walt. I think she must suspect a great deal of unsavoury doings, but what really matters is her belief about Jesse at that time.
"You must not judge what I know by what I find words for." - Marilynne Robinson
reply
share
swolbach
8 years ago
Trying not to sound like a keyboard Heisenberg...but doesn't that description sound a bit like how Walt must have felt when he got his cancer verdict...with his similar decision being made to kill Crazy 8? Except he made a list of pros and cons, then came up with what he felt was the best option.
Both were looking to protect the family.
Not saying his decision to cook meth was a good one, but both ended up in a situation with a decision to kill the threat to their family, but between the two situations, think Walt's was the one that left himself with no options.
Note, I'm only talking about the first kill here...when providing for the family after his death was paramount...before ego was a primary driver...and before he had the G&E offer.
reply
share
Whatlarks
8 years ago
Earlier I agreed that Skyler here is like Walt at the time of Crazy 8.
I think Skyler doesn't go through a similar process of pros and cons because unlike Walt's situation at the point of Crazy 8, by this time she'd had a lot of experience working out pros and cons - i.e., trying to use reason - and yet here she is anyway. I think she's at her wits end, whereas Walt only gave up on rationality momentarily (like in 4 Days Out, when Jesse had to talk him back to reason).
As for Walt being left with no option, I'm not sure that was true. I think he just didn't think of one. For example, turning himself in to protect his family was the one sacrifice he never considered. If that wasn't an option he'd ever choose, it was even moreso for Skyler by this point, because it would mean both of them turning themselves in, leaving the kids without either of their parents.
"You must not judge what I know by what I find words for." - Marilynne Robinson
reply
share
lief_peterson
8 years ago
I think it was probably the alcohol talking, imo.
It did seem very extreme to jump to that method of resolution, I think they were showing that at that point she was very worked up and frightened, and she had never really had the experience of something coming right into her home and posing a threat before. Except in her opinion Walt it would seem.
Plus, you know how dramatic women can get :P
Just a joke just a joke lol please know that I'm only kidding....mostly lol
reply
share
Whatlarks
8 years ago
That's okay. I guess the joke never made real sense to me because I've always found that men tend to be more dramatic, and become so more easily.
"You must not judge what I know by what I find words for." - Marilynne Robinson
reply
share
lief_peterson
8 years ago
I know I agree, was just playing off the stereotype type, just for a laugh but its not my actual opinion. Some of the biggest drama queens ive ever met were dudes, its definitely not an exclusively female trait! Lol
Just thought I'd throw it in there, not seriously at all :)
reply
share
swolbach
8 years ago
Oh man, can't believe you went there...you can't use the "dramatic woman" card, then cover it up with "just joking". Man, WL, DMC and IS are gonna come down hard on you...sucks to be Lief.
reply
share
lief_peterson
8 years ago
Hahaha sh!t...what did I just do?!? Help me swolbach! Lol
reply
share
swolbach
8 years ago
Ain't no Heisenberg that's gonna drive up and run over your problems, like Walt did for Jesse. You're on your own...
reply
share
swolbach
8 years ago
For Walt's lack of options, I'm referring to killing Crazy 8. Are you saying he should have turned himself in at this point, or was that something else?
Walt methodically made a list of pros and cons, gave it some serious thought, as opposed to making a rash decision. Some viewers, like Lief for example, would say this was a very non-womanly thing to do. But I would never go there. That would be unwise.
reply
share
lief_peterson
8 years ago
LOL you're really not helping here, swolbach.
reply
share
swolbach
8 years ago
I try to build a case that Walt and Skyler are not that far apart...a large house of cards, if you will...with both having faced similar dilemmas regarding threats to their families and murder, while also trying to bridge the gap between the obvious divide between many male and female viewers, pertaining to justification of Walt and Skyler's actions.
Then you come along with the "dramatic woman" card, pull it out from the bottom of my house, and it comes tumbling down. Man, have you ever been to Belize? 😂
reply
share
Whatlarks
8 years ago
Turning himself in was always an option. It was with Crazy 8, and at every other time.
Walt also made rash decisions. A critical example was turning down Gretchen and Elliott's offer. Another was shooting Mike.
I think Skyler gave serious thought to major decisions as well. One example is in "Buried," when Walt collapses in the bathroom. Check her dialogue:
The way Hank talks he's got his
suspicions. Not much else. You
can't give yourself up without
giving up the money. It's the way
this works, Walt. So maybe our
best move here is to stay quiet.
Working her way through the situation, weighing the odds, coming to a solution. She sounds a lot like Walt. We can also go way back to when she was tempted by the bag of money in the nursery, and her visits to the divorce lawyer. Her exchange with the lawyer was all about using the meetings to test her thoughts and feelings on what to do. The lawyer gave her the con, and we knew what obvious pros Skyler had in mind.
They didn't emphasize her thought processes like they did Walt's, but they implied, I think, that she had a very rational, strategic quality of mind. Evidence for it was in her scheme to undermine Bogdan, in her idea to get money to Hank for his physical therapy - both ideas, by the way, were great examples of poetic justice. Even her idea for the car wash in the first place, which was better than what Saul came up with.
I agree that they are very similar. Early on, Skyler does a fake antique scam on EBay. It's implied that it's not the first time. She's got an itch to get away with things, to transgress. She enjoys feeling alive like Walt does. Her sister's kleptomania and tendency to want to control (like Skyler controlled Walt early on) implies that both of them crave power. That's just like Walt.
"You must not judge what I know by what I find words for." - Marilynne Robinson
reply
share
swolbach
8 years ago
Yep, think it is summed up after telling one of her biggest lies..."I learned from the best". She's alot more like Walt than many may think, once she's put into the right, or wrong, situations.
Not sure I'd call turning down the G&E money a rash decision by Walt That was based on choosing pride and ego over the well-being of his family. But given alot of time to think about it, don't think he'd change his mind.
Turning himself in for Crazy 8? Expect that could have endangered his family, assuming Crazy 8 isn't jailed for a long time, plus it puts Walt in jail, takes away his chance to make money for his family and probably even takes away any current money from work, insurance, etc. The money is not a legit excuse, when it comes to killing someone...but the safety issue is. Crazy 8 even said himself, when discussing what it would take to be left go, when he said he'd start by promising not to harm his family.
reply
share